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guajira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:39 PM
Original message
CNN Breaking - Zapatera Pulling Spanish Troops from Iraq
Wolf says it's about 1300 troops!
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Watch Shrub sh*t bricks!
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Flagg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. before June 30th you mean ?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yes it is ASAP
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. and condi commented this am...it would be partial withdrawl
guess she got slapped down again.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Most of the Spanish troops are around Najaf
and they have no stomach to turn their peace mission into a holy war.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. WOW
Zapatero delivers on his promise to the Spanish people

You think Bush will get it?
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
36. To John Kerry
Get a clue
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bluedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. he did win on that
Zapatera said he was going to bring the troops home....
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Kucinich is our Zapatero
and like Zapatero, he will bring the troops home and not pursue a Vietnam-style "stay the course."

I am very happy and relieved for the Spanish troops, their families, and loved ones.

Guess who will have to pick up the slack?
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. WOW. That's sooner than
anticipated. Senor Zapatero was just inaugurated as the Prime Minister (yesterday, I think).

He certainly didn't wait long. Now watch the Coalition crumble.
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mmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. YES!
1300 good people will be out of harm's way.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yeah, I saw that and did a double-take,...
,...I wonder who's next,...GB?
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. Not until the GBP
(Great British public) start screaming and yeling and demanding words and action from their Labour MP's.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
70. Next? Maybe Australia
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. The Bushies are already bullying Australian voters (or trying to)
From the Sydney Morning Herald
Dated Friday March 26

Ambassador: Iraq withdrawal would be dangerous

The US Ambassador to Australia, Tom Schieffer, today warned of dangerous consequences of a premature withdrawal of Australian troops from Iraq.
Mr Schieffer said these were difficult times in Iraq and care needed to be taken over how actions could be interpreted.
He said he hoped Federal Opposition leader Mark Latham would reconsider his promise to bring Australian troops home from Iraq . . . .
Mr Schieffer said a precipitous withdrawal of troops by the international community now could have very serious consequences.

Read more.

Last time Bushie diplomats used the term
serious consequences, it was part of a phoney justication to invade a sovereign state.


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GreenGreenLimaBean Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. What the fuck has troops in Iraq gotten the australian people?
not a damn fucking thing. does every anglo-based society on earth have
its head up its ass? Thank god Canada has some fucking sense.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #80
91. Our large French-Canadian population helps there
And I don't mean this as some dumb slur to the French. The need to consider Quebec's opinions (and votes) has frequently kept our politicians from going along with mad schemes like Iraq.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #91
95. You got it right!
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anakie Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #70
87. Howard has to lose the election first
which won't be held until August at the earliest
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is what Kerry should be calling for as well....
but we won't be hearing that talk from him anytime soon...
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. "Stay the course"
I think we will be hearing that parroted from him.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. "Stay the course" = Vietnam's "Peace with Honor"
How many names does Kerry want to see on the Iraq War Memorial?

Stop catering to those that supported this war, take a big clue from Zapatero, and get the hell out!
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
99. I already heard that today when I called his DC office.
Edited on Mon Apr-19-04 05:54 PM by truth2power
Kerry was never my first choice, and I'm finding it more and more difficult to work up any enthusiasm for him. His statements lately, about Iraq and about Rantisi, and hanging out with Lieberman. it seems like lately he just puts his finger to the wind and goes with the whorefest du jour.

I wish I could feel more optimistic about our choices.

edit> spelling. Cripes! I can't do spell check because I get a runtime error.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. Spanish Rice will be Freedom Rice..
I'm awaiting the onslaught of nincompoops. "Spain is an axis of evil", "Spain hates our freedoms", "Spain is aiding the enemy", etc. Just wait... there will be people smashing bottles of Sangria at a Clear Channel station near you. '

The former administration there should have LISTENED to their own people, who said.. overwhelming.. do NOT send troops!!! Had our dipshit leaders listened to US and the rest of the world, we wouldn't be in the disaster we're in now!
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huckleberry Donating Member (729 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. or "john kerry looks spanish"
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Will paella be banned now?............ eom
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imax2268 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
65. I'm wondering
if freepers and repugs will start pouring pasta down the gutters like they did with the french wine...

Is spagehtti and lasagna going to be banned from menus all over the coutnry...?

Are Italian resturants going to be vandalized...?

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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. Ummm...
Italy and Spain are different countries.



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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Yeah, that confused the hell out of me as well. eom
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. So I guess republicans will use "Freedom Fly" insted of
Spanish Fly when they go out on dates.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
71. Or Condi Rice
Sorry.

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
92. "There is a rose in Freedom Harlem"
They will want to rename Spanish River to Freedom River. It is a good thing the U.S. never took up the British useage of spanner, rather than wrench. "Hand me my freedomer, son."
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sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm keeping my fingers crossed
other countries there will do the same. Let Bush solve his own mess. He was warned but was too arrogant to listen. He should put his flightsuit on and go to Iraq, and join all the troops he's sent there.
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keithyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. At last!!! A leader with " balls"
Spain should be proud of their choice. They should be careful though, about the blow-back from the US and Israel. Black-bag jobs on the way.
The Islamic clerics should call for immediate cease of all act of hostility toward Spain and its citizens. This has to get out so that the blow-back won't be blamed on the Islamists.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Zapatero also supports same-sex marriage
now that's some balls in Catholic Spain, the birthplace of Opus Dei!
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. The Catholic Church lost a lot of support in Spain because of Franco.
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 01:06 PM by Zynx
About a third of Spain hates the Catholic Church because of their support of Franco. It's unfortunate that the Catholic Church did that, but they hurt themselves so luckily they'll never do it again.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. The alliance of conservative Catholics with Fascists ...
... wasn't limited to Father Coughlin. :puke:
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Oh, soooooo true,...but, times have changed some *eom*
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. The Catholic church did oppose the bastards in Guatemala and El Salvador.
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guajira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Isn't That Refreshing!!!
I hope Kerry is taking note of the courage of Zapatero. Kerry is going to Miami this week, and I'm afraid he will pander to the Miami hate-motivated Republicans - while denying hundreds of millions of Americans freedom to travel!!
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King of New Orleans Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. He said on MTP this morning
That while he supports the embargo, he wants to lift the travel ban.

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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Miami Cubans aren't travel banned - not an issue to them
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 01:13 PM by Mika
Its us non Cuban AMERICANS that are travel banned by the US government.

Miami Cubans can and do go to Cuba for vacations and family visits.

Plus, in addition to Cuban resident aliens and Cuban-Americans, visiting foreigners can hop on a plane from Miami to Havana & back every day. United, Continental and AA.

Only non Cuban Americans and non Cuban resident aliens are banned from going to Cuba by US law.
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guajira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
66. King, Thanks for the Heads-up, I had Kerry on tape
Just watched MTP tape and was very encouraged by Kerry's answer. He made it clear that current policy is not working, and he did say he favors freedom to travel!!!

It made my day!
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. 72% of Spaniards support Zapateros plans on Iraq.
Zapatero Sticks by Pledge on Troops in Iraq

"PA"

The 1,300 Spanish troops in Iraq, stationed in Diwaniya and the Shiite holy city of Najaf, come under rifle and mortar fire almost every day from militiamen loyal to the fiery anti-US cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

A poll by the radio station Cadena Ser released showed 72% of Spaniards support Zapateros plans on Iraq.

And Spaniards are wasting no time in exerting pressure a rally is planned for tonight outside Parliament to urge Zapatero to keep his word.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2788121
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
22. Uh oh, there goes Najaf.
Weren't Spanish soldiers the only ones in that city and the only coalition casualties there? If they leave, I bet those 2500 Americans will do to that city what they are doing to Fallujah.

Bad news.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. You are right, most Spanish troops were around Najaf
and it seems to me that Zapatero wants no part of the genocide Krazy Kimmett is planning on Najaf.
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MidwestMomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
57. Yes, maybe they want no part of Operation Enduring FURBAR
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 02:04 PM by MidwestMomma
Or whatever screwball name they'll come up with to make a slaughter in Najah sound noble.

Our troops are screwed as far as I'm concerned and they need to pull the troops, if not completely out, at least to a fall back condition until somebody can come up with a actual strategy over there. Something more than "You'll see" or "We need to soldier on". There is such a thing as a stragetic retreat isn't there?

I don't want us to be in Iraq but I think that as long as this stupid Admin has put our troops in harms way, they should at least put someone in charge with a coherent plan beyond 'kill anything that might kill you'.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
67. Kimmett does seem to be a tad crazed.
Just the kind of guy Bush and Rummy would love. Brace.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. According to El Mundo, troops will be withdrawn "within days"
Zapatero says that even though he had intended to keep the troops in Iraq until the June 30 handover, it now appears that the UN won't be able to have a stable Iraqi government in place, therefore Spain has decided to get out of Iraq now. Zapatero has ordered his Defense Minister to bring the troops home "within days"

Zapatero reiterated his support for Iraqi reconstruction and to work in coalition on the war on terror.

Here is the story from the Spanish daily El Mundo:

RUEDA DE PRENSA SORPRESA EN LA MONCLOA
Zapatero anuncia la retirada inmediata de las tropas de Irak

ELMUNDO.ES


MADRID.- El presidente del Gobierno, Jos Luis Rodrguez Zapatero, ha anunciado la retirada inmediata de las tropas espaolas de Irak. Esta retirada se har "en el menor tiempo y con la mayor seguridad posible" y se debe a las pocas perspectivas de que la ONU se haga cargo de la situacin en Irak.

Zapatero ha comparecido con el ministro de Defensa, Jos Bono, y la vicepresidenta primera, Mara Teresa Fernndez de la Vega. En una comparencia en la que no ha admitido preguntas, Zapatero ha dicho que esta maana ha dado "orden de que las tropas regresen a casa".

El presidente del Gobierno ha recordado que ya en marzo de 2003 adquiri este compromiso "pblico" y lo reiter el pasado mes de febrero. Asimismo, ha aadido que "con la informacin de que disponemos, no es previsible una resolucin de la ONU" que se ajuste a las condiciones expuestas en el pasado por el PSOE para que los soldados espaoles permanezcan en Irak.

<snip>

Zapatero ha sealado que el ministro de Defensa, Jos Bono, informar del proceso de regreso de las tropas en los prximos das. Adems, ha anunciado la convocatoria de un Pleno del Congreso "para informar a los grupos de las razones y el alcance de la decisin, que he comunicado personalmente al lder de la oposicin".

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2004/04/18/espana/1082303...

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ultramega Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
27. Spain has had eleven casualties so far.
According to lunaville, 1 military diplomat, 2 soldiers and 8 intelligence agents

Good for them for saying enough is enough.

There is way more hispanic culture in the U.S. than French, alot harder to boycott, from Puerto Rico's JLo, Cuba's Gloria Estefan, Colombia's Shakira, Mexico's Salma Hayek, Spain's Penelope Cruz, etc etc etc,

Yo no quiero Taco Bell?

Ricky Martin, Marc Antony, Enriqe Iglesias,Thalia, Big Pun, George Lopez, Andy Garcia, Lou Diamond Philips...

It's amazing how so much of pop culture is either Latin or African american. The only white people making it are those who immitate African American artists, like Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, etc, (except for metal bands and folk.) If it weren't for Latin and African American culture we'd still be listening to Pat Boone on AM radio.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
30. For all you folks cheering
You do realize that our troops will have to replace those Spanish ones leaving right? That means either more will have to deployed or more will be extended. I thought we wanted more international support, not less.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. We should pull out as well
International "support" for Iraq war is as much a fantasy as Bush's Coalition of the Willing!

Iraqis don't want foreign troops on their soil, period!
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ultramega Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Show of hands: Who foresaw Sunni and Shia uniting?
On everything else, I, like most of us immoral liberals, have been correct. But on this point, I was wrong, I honestly felt it would devolve into a civil war, which it may once there is no foreign military presence. But when this happened it became a new ballgame, and I cannot blame any country for getting the hell out while the getting is good.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. The Sunni/Shia were never divided. Just a media propaganda campaign
It is called divide and conquer. BushCo thought if they kept saying it often enough, the Iraqis may believe it. BushCo fooled us, but all the Iraqi blogs say there is no animosity between the two sects.
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ultramega Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Good point Robbien, about the blogs
I have actually read this in Riverbend, that the situation was more like Protestants and Catholics, but that about ten years ago the Pope had a whole bunch of protestants massacred . It can't be denied what Saddam Hussein and the Sunni Baath party did to the Shia after gulf war 1 . I think the answer lies more in the middle.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Precisely what my student from Fallujah has been saying
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #37
73. If you read Robert Fisk, this would be no surprise.
He was probably the only major journalist who talked about the notion of a Sunni-Shiite civil war as Western propaganda. I really think he's the only journalist in Iraq that is telling the truth. It pays to be unembedded.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. Unfortunately, we are not leaving
And the Spanish troops pulling out will only make it harder on those who are still there.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Not leaving will only result in more deaths
We should not duplicate the mistakes of Vietnam and try to win a peace that is un-winnable.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. But we aren't
Both Bush and Kerry have said so. We have to made do with what we got, and the Spanish leaving isn't helping.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Kucinich will being the troops home
and I am voting for Dennis in the Indiana primary.

Kerry delegates have some soul-searching to do: do they want Iraq to become a Democratic war?
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. Good luck with that
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. The onus is on the Democratic Party and the Democratic Administration
if Kerry's "stay the course" becomes policy after he is sworn-in. Iraq then becomes his war! Kerry can either apply the lessons of Vietnam and bring the troops home as Zapatero will do with Spain's, or he can repeat the mistakes of Vietnam and chase that "light at the end of the tunnel."
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. I'm hoping Kerry is just being a politician.
Saying he won't "cut and run" to make sure he gets the conservative Dem vote and then once he's in move quickly to get us out.

Maybe I'm dreaming.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Kerry is a politician
And I don't see him changing after the election.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. Then he will ingloriously go down as bad as Johnson did.
Remembered for Iraqnam, not Uplifting Americans or whatever happy domestic programs he's running on.

IMO, he will be forced to pull out because the death toll will become unbearable to the squeamish Americans.
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #55
81. Dream away, I have the same dream/hope that Kerry does just as you suggest
.
.
.

I'm sure JK could find "justification" to change his course as President he would have access to "classified" material he could use to justify withdrawing from Iraq.

And I seriously doubt that American citizens AND soldiers would raise a huge outcry if Kerry leaned towards letting the UN be fully in charge of any operations in Iraq.

Keep that dream!

I am.
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ultramega Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. The Spanish don't owe us blood sacrifices
90% of their population was against the war. I'm hoping that this will start a domino effect and that Bush will be forced to bring NATO and the UN into this. That is really the only hope, and a life is a life, so I can't say I'm less aggreived at a Spanish death than I would be at an American one. They are both terribly tragic, and the Spaniards blessed themselves with a leader who cares about the lives of his citizens, AND did so right after a terrorist attack that could have turned them further toward fascism (like it did here). The have definitely earned the right to pull their troops out without judgement from the U.S..
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #39
64. Yes we are.
Willingly or not, dead or alive, we are leaving.
Nothing good can happen until we do.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. That was the topic of my earlier post.
I believe the Spanish were "holding the fort" (or bag) in Najaf. Now that they are leaving, there will be a vacuum. Our 2500 troops surrounding the city will probably move in. This will end badly for everyone. More US soldiers will die and this will be seen as the beginning of their "holy war" against us.

However, I'm glad Spain is leaving. We should leave too.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. Would you send you son or daughter over there Columbia? n/t
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Don't have any
But I, myself, did go over there
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. If you had a son or daughter would you encourage them to go over there? nt
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. Why would I?
If they are adults, it is their decision. What bearing does it have on this discussion?
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
89. Feel free to enlist.
I hear Blackwater has a few positions open.
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GreatCaesarsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
38. i wonder if ahole sharon helped
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 01:46 PM by GreatCaesarsGhost
push the timetable for spanish withdrawal from 6/30 to immediately.

edit spelling
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
42. I am reluctant
to cheer too loudly and won't allow myself to celebrate until they actually leave, but fuck me is this a step in the right direction or what!

V
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freeforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
44. Zapatero Rocks!
Nice to see a politician who keeps his word.

Spain can be proud!
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
54. Wonder if Kimmet fainted again when he heard about this?
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ultramega Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #54
79. Does anyone have a link on Kimmitt's fainting spell?
I looked all over the place yesterday and only found 3 snippets on cbs marketwatch, that basically said, "Kimmit almost fainted" and that's it, no article or follow up.
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CabalBuster Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
60. Los espanoles tienen cojones
Spaniards have "balls", the best news today so far!
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. And we have shit for brains
for saying "stay the course" in Iraq.
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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
68. Here's the BBC article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3637523.stm

Still nothing on CNN's website.

Another unfortunate piece of news tho...we've hit the 700 dead mark.
;(
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. The United States has condemned the decision
From the BBC article linked by hippywife in post 68:

The United States has condemned the decision to bring the troops home, saying it is giving in to terrorism.

Like hell it is. The invasion and occupation has nothing to do with terrorism. This can't possibly be giving in to terrorism.

The agreement by Prime Minister Aznar to send troops to Iraq was giving into Bush and the neo-conservatives. The action by Zapatero to remove troops merely rights a wrong.


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Cicero Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
76. The question has to be asked...
If, after all the Spanish troops are pulled out, Spain suffers another terrorist attack, who will be blamed then? And what will Zapatera do in response?

Later,
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. "who will be blamed then"? Saddam maybe? n/t
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Cicero Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #78
85. It was Spain's involvement in Iraq...
...that was "blamed" for the original bombings. So who (or what) will be blamed if, after the troops come home, there's more bombings?

P.S. Happy 50th posting to me!!!

:party:

Later,
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. Zapatero will probably
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 04:09 PM by markses
work to round up the criminals involved, increase security, and continue to work with international partners to stop the growth of terrorism.

I suspect Zapatero won't invade a country unconnected with the attacks, further destabilizing a region and producing more terrorists than he stops. That's the demented, counterproductive, and incompetent Bush way of doing things, which Zapatero wisely opted out of for the good of the people of Spain.
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ultramega Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #76
86. The answers have to be questioned.
Because it is all spin, spin, spin...

MAYBE Zapatero will work to fight terrorism in Spain with intelligence agencies and all the other resources they have. This is the task the whole world should be focused on now. This doesn't mean all attacks can be prevented, it just means that people need to try. Because we saw on 9/11 what can happen when leaders do not try to prevent these attacks, but (purportedly) let them happen and use them to their advantage.

But I bet what he won't do is invade, say, New Zealand, on the premise that they were behind the Madrid bombings and have WMD's. I'd put money on it, yes.
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July Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. Spain has been fighting terrorism a lot longer than we have, actually.
And they're doing better than we are. They've had homegrown terrorism for more than 30 years. Sometimes they've handled it well, sometimes not so well, but they have been paying attention to it for a long time, and work with other countries on the issue. There are already a number of suspects in the March 11 attacks in custody, and Zapatero is making his first state visit to Morocco, home of a number of the suspects. I'm pretty sure Spain could teach the U.S. a bit about fighting terrorism.

And I agree, Zapatero won't be attacking, say, New Zealand!
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July Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #76
90. It could happen, but Zapatero will then be dealing with
the consequences of AZNAR'S decision to join up with Bush, against the wishes of 90% of the Spanish population.

Terrorism is a top priority for the new government. Zapatero visited the victims of the March 11 attacks yesterday after being sworn in as president, and he has reiterated his commitment to fighting terrorism. Whatever he does, it has to work better than attacking Iraq did for us.
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haakonmaxwell Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
77. CNN Breaking - Zapatera Pulling Spanish Troops from Iraq
Here is an example of Democracy at its best. Congrats to Spain.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
83. I wonder if Republicans will demand US pull-out under Kerry
Will Republicans support a continued US presence in Iraq's killing fields when the Commander In Chief becomes a Democrat? You can bet that Rush, Hannity, Savage, North and the other kooks will be micro-criticizing everything that happens and blaming it on President Kerry. Especially, if the UN comes into Iraq in a leading role, I wonder if we may see Republicans actually demanding for a pull-out as well.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
84. Gee, I was hoping he'd bomb San Sebastian
We can infer that this is what the U.S. has to look forward to:

06 April 2004

The group that claimed responsibility for the Madrid trains bombings has sent a fax threatening more attacks that will "make blood flow like rivers in Spain". Al-Qa'ida's European wing, Ansar al-Qa'ida, demanded Spain withdraw its troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and stopped supporting the United States and its allies.


http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=50...

Has Bush screwed us all, or what?
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tedzbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
93. Submitting to the terrorists?
Damn. So what? At least they will be able to ride their trains without worrying about being blown up by al Qaeda again.

(I pray I don't eat my words, of course)
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #93
96. Tell me, again...
About the Iraqi roots of Al Qaeda. About all the Iraqis who flew those jets into buildings on 9/11.

The fight against terrorism is ongoing. At least Spain won't lose any more of its people in Iraq.

Do you think the Iraqi adventure has made us safer in the USA?

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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
94. Poor freepers will have to stop using Spanish Fly to get sex.
n/t
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
97. The more countries that pull troops the more successful we are!
Edited on Mon Apr-19-04 05:33 PM by sfg25
:crazy:
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
98. Will be completed in less than 6 weeks
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews...

MADRID (Reuters) - The process of withdrawing Spanish troops from Iraq has begun and will be completed in less than six weeks, Spain's new government said on Monday.

Defense Minister Jose Bono said he would not give dates for the troop pullout for security reasons. But when asked at a news conference about a reported estimate of the time needed for withdrawal, Bono said: "Whoever said six to eight weeks was being imprudent because it will be less."

A military plane left on Monday with troops and equipment to help carry out the withdrawal, Bono said. Originally that flight was to have been for a routine troop rotation. State television said 194 soldiers were on board.

Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, sworn in as Spain's prime minister on Saturday, announced on Sunday he had given orders for Spain's 1,400 troops in Iraq "to come home in the shortest possible time and the greatest possible safety."

more..
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