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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:50 AM
Original message
Eating Meat Linked To Disease, Report Says
Source: Huffington Post

A new report released claims the science is clear: Eating too much meat is bad for your health.

The so-called Meat Eater's Guide, compiled by the Environmental Working Group, is generating buzz for its "cradle-to-grave" look at the environmental impact of 20 popular types of meat, dairy and vegetable proteins. But it also emphasizes the potential health impact of eating too much meat, recommending that people cut back to decrease their risk of heart disease and certain cancers.

"The goal is to really make this information accessible to consumers," said Kari Hamerschlag, an agriculture analyst with the research and advocacy group. "On the health side, we really pulled together all of the information and tried to make it as clear as possible that there's not just one reason to limit meat consumption; there are a whole host of reasons."

The report, which weaves together statistics from various earlier studies, allows that meat can be an important source of protein and vitamins when eaten in moderation. But in the U.S., moderation may be a problem. The report cites data from the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization suggesting that Americans consume almost 60 percent more meat than their European counterparts, and four times more than in many developing countries. And much of that meat is either red or processed.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/18/cut-back-on-me...
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. Consuming meat is like consuming alcohol: some consumption positive, too much is negative.
Not really a breakthrough idea, IMO.
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PoliticAverse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. "Don't over do it." n/t
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
104. All things in moderation. n/t
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Aha - that explains the MeatBaggers (R)
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 07:57 AM by SpiralHawk
Just as suspected...

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
48. Lady Gaga, is that you?
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daggahead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. Dr. John McDougall has show this evidence for more than 25 years.
The "dead animal on a plate" industry has used their own paid scientists to refute the facts.

Going vegan and or vegetarian can only help us help ourselves in keeping our planet livable for humans.
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cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Except the study isnt saying people should go "vegan and or vegetarian"
rather that they think based on their data that people should reduce the amount they consume of meat.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. So the only options are eating an excessive amount of meat/dairy or none?
There is no middle ground. Perhaps something labeled "moderation"?
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. For the High, Holy Church of the Great Vegan ...
... there is only one option: don't eat or wear anything related to an animal or else you are a murderer and engaged in animal genocide (and why do you keep puppies in a state of slavery?).

I find the original article just plain reasonable: you should probably eat enough animal protein to get your B-12, meat is a good source of concentrated protein. But you also need to eat plenty of fruits, nuts, berries and vegetables.

Wow. I'm underwhelmed.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. It sounds like they went to the effort to prove common sense
eat everything on your plate, even the veggies.

Eat everything in moderation.

Get a good mix of fruits, vegetables, grains, meats, dairies, etc in your daily diet.

S
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. since I went mostly vegan in March--
I have lost ten pounds, my blood pressure and blood sugar are down, my cholesterol is dropping like a stone, and I feel great. And it was a lot easier to do than I would have thought. By "mostly" I mean most of my meals--but sometimes an egg white or a small amount of fat free yogurt get into my recipes, and I eat fish maybe twice a month. I'm eating more of a variety of vegetables and legumes than I ever have, and my diet is really interesting, varied and satisfying.

Only people who have tried it for at least three weeks can know how good you can feel. But it isn't a religions for me--it is primarily a health regime.
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cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. I've heard a similar sales pitch on tv from jenny craig *grin*
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
54. Yes, losing weight, regardless of how you do it, will have health benefits.
However, with going vegan (I never have), you lose weight without thinking about it. On Jenny Craig or any other weight loss diet, you can barely think of anything else, except, "I am not eating as much as I want."
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. yes it's a lot easier than a diet.
In fact it's not hard at all. No hunger, no thinking about food all the time! (Believe me I've done those: Weight watchers, South Beach and a lot of other ones where you have a set menu to follow--ugh. And since you are "on" a diet, you eventually fall "off".)

Biggest problem I've faced has been well-meaning relatives and friends who think they have to make a big deal out of having foods that I want to eat. Wish I had just not mentioned it--they probably wouldn't have noticed anything. And they all think I'm suffering--lol.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. nice kitties
If being vegan works for you, great. If I don't get *any* meat I DO think about it. A lot.

I have no particular need to lose weight anyway, since I'm not overweight.

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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
68. After a Couple of Days I Would be Thinking About it All The Time
(I wonder if I can catch that rabbit)
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #68
134. You lose a taste for it, after awhile. I would gag if I tried to eat beef, which I gave up...
years ago. I still eat poultry and fish. But I'm cutting down on the poultry.

Years after giving up beef, I had sirloin steak on the brain. I really missed it. So I bought one and cooked it. It smelled sooooo good. I took a bite...then...gag. Awful. It tasted so heavy, like a clot of blood that had been cooked. I haven't had even the urge to eat beef since then.

BTW, I'm 57. Blood pressure about 110/57 or lower, depending on how much I'm walking and such. Cholesterol fluctuates somewhat, but always in range of 150. Blood sugar 80.

Beef, like cigarettes, has been linked to cancer, though not as directly. And the one thing in common in cultures where people die young or unhealthy is the eating of fast food and lots of beef or meat.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #54
85. +1 -- That's what "dieting" used to mean -- changing the food you eat --
not eating less -- which simply causes your metabolism to drop -- and

later you regain the weight, plus some!



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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #54
130. oh, bullshit.
You can be vegan and totally overweight.

It is all about how many calories you eat.

I eat vegan most of the time, and I am never hungry after a meal.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
42. You are not a vegan if you eat fish. Vegans do not eat any animal products.
I am vegetarian and I maybe eat fish once a week, so I cannot call myself a true vegetarian.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. probably why they said "mostly vegan" don't you think? n/t
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #42
62. that's why I said "mostly vegan". nt
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
53. I find vegans break down, for the most part, into two groups.
One group goes vegetarian or vegan mostly, if not entirely, for the health of the eater, then may branch out into the other benefits, like kindness to animals and/or the planet.

The other group goes vegetarian mostly for the health of the chicken and/or the planet, then may branch out into the othr benefits, like health of the eater and/or the planet.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #53
86. +1 -- Second group here --
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #14
101. I've also lost weight in the past couple months since signing up for a CSA
and I still eat meat. Never ate a lot of it - just a sensible diet like the article touts. But the CSA is awesome - a big bin of organic, mostly local vegetables and fruit delivered to my door every week. Yum.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. You do not need animal protein to get B-12.
I am a vegetarian and take a B-12 supplement.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #43
66. You Need Either Animal Protein or a Big Factory Somewhere to Make It Artificially
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. Apparently not.
Check wikipedia. There are a wide variety of sources ... the big problem appears to be there are a wide variety of factors than can block its proper role in metabolism.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #66
132. Ever been to India? nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
87. And all vegetables have protein -- the kind of protein your body needs ... !!
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #43
112. So that kind of argues against the "natural" argument for veganism
"Of course you can live off just plants! All you need is daily vitamin supplements (those are natural right?)"
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
51. 'Everything in moderation" is so eighteenth century. Or, Ancient Greek
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
78. No. But what the average uninformed American would call "moderation"

is probably too much meat to be optimally healthy.








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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #78
107. I would hope most people who are obese recognize that they are unhealthy
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 08:27 AM by WatsonT
and just don't care, rather than thinking being unable to move or see your genitals due to your weight is actually a healthy state of being.

But then again people never cease to amaze me.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #107
110. I wasn't obese or even what most people would call overweight

but I ate meat every.single.day. Usually some meat with every meal.


Eating meat every single day is not optimally healthy. Not even close.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #110
111. Depends on the meat source and the quantity
eating 3 ounces of salmon per day is very good for you.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #111
118. meh. It's ok. Not needed, but it probably won't hurt you. But it will kill the ocean

if everybody does it.


And that's a VERY bad thing.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #118
120. Seems a bit hyperbolic to me
"it will kill the ocean".
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #120
129. Then you didn't give it any real thought.


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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #129
137. Really . . . so eating farmed fish in moderation will literally kill the ocean
which will kill the land as well, so the whole biosphere will die.

Too bad, because we've been doing that for centuries.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Uh-oh. You gone and done it now.
Suggest that people stop eating meat or quit smoking at DU and you risk being tarred and feathered.

I'm sure the mods have been alerted numerous times already. Good luck!
:popcorn:
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cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. You forgot
*exercising* should be there also spending less time on the computer, using cellphones and drinking soda.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
44. ...
Down! Get down!
:hide:
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
24. Going vegan and or vegetarian
Is just as "unnatural" as eating too much meat.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Well, it's certainly unnatural for omnivorous humans.
We aren't niche eaters. We are aggressive predators. Some of us are just too delicate to deal with it.
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veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #39
82. delicate. You mean llike having the animal tortured and killed for you?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #82
90. Slaughter houses will glass walls would help -- !!! :)
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #82
113. Outrageous! I torture and murder the animal myself thank you very much
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #82
133. delicate. Like not doing your own killing and butchering.
Especially if you don't know how to do it without torture.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
55. Cave folks did not always have a dead mammoth handy.
They ate a vegetarian diet in between hunts and kills.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #55
75. Depends On Where They Lived
For the Eskimoes, and a lot of coastal fishing people, there wasn't any between.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #55
114. So then an omnivorous diet is the most natural
just like everyone has been saying.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
88. Why would you think that eating PLANTS is the same as eating an animal?
Plants are your nutrition -- your medicines --

vegetables and fruits nourish different parts of your body --

The only health an animal can give you is from what they've already

eaten of PLANTS!!


Meanwhile, we've been thru a long period where American ranchers were feeding

animals .... other animals -- even road kill!!

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byronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. Former Meathead here, gone to the Vegans, and I'm Loving It.
Never felt so good in my entire adult life.

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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. Tried it for 6 months myself and hated it.
Never felt worse. We are all different.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
52. I imagine we take out of an experience what we want to...
I imagine we take out of an experience what we want to...
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #52
73. And We Take Out of Food What Our Individual Bodies are Capable of Digesting
If he tried it for 6 months, I think we can assume he wanted to become vegan, but it simply doesn't work for him.
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. I tried the vegetarian thing for about 6 months (not vegan)
However, you are correct in that my body did not like it. I also refuse to take any pills. So any diet that requires me to pop pills or supplements is out.

Horrible feeling and ended up dreaming about steaks and hamburgers.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #77
100. I smell BS
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #100
103. You just don't like to face anything that conflicts with your agenda
I smell a fundamentalist.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
79. Same here. 2 months clean ;)


Actually, as the poster above, I've gone *mostly* vegan. I feel great and have lost about 10 lbs w/out really trying.

Also, while I purposely did NOT cut out my diet coke habit (total junkie), since I didn't want to try to make two huge changes at the same time, and I wanted to wait and see the health benefits of the diet alone, I have noticed that I'm just naturally less attracted to Diet Coke; I'm drinking about half as much as before.

I'm sure I'm still not doing the absolute ultimate in healthy eating.... but my god the improvement in my diet as compared to my old eating habits is quantum by any reasonable standards.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #79
92. What moved you to do it?
I adore vegetables -- tonight we had stuffed peppers -- made at my veggie

store -- think she used cos cu's instead of rice -- and fresh corn niblets

for the stuffing --

We had it with some linguine with olive oil dressing -- and some roasted

yellow and green zuccini on top -- salad greens/cucumber --

Watermelon


:)
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #92
109. Hard to say...

well, specifically it was seeing the movie Forks over Knives.

But I had believed fairly strongly that the diet advocated by the subjects of that movie is the most healthy diet for many years. Had even done Dr. McDougals recommendations years ago (but had fallen back into a total convenience diet).

I've also thought that while I don't have an ethical or moral issue with eating animals per se, I don't want to be a part of torturing anything. Modern farming is torturing animals, imo.

Also, factory animal farming is not sustainable as it is currently done.

And then there is the "ick" factor of what is in your meat products when produced thru factory farming methods.



I guess it all just came together for me. Like I say, I've been aware of all of these things for some time.


But I've been surprised at how easy it's been. The hardest part for me is thinking ahead about food. I'm not much of a cook and have never been good at thinking ahead about the days food.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
91. Why did you do it?
And, btw, glad to hear you feel well --

but you're also helping the planet!!

And animals!!


:)
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
37. This Comedienne Sez:
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #37
58. I was with her till the last sentence. How does liking immigrants jibe with eliminating their jobs?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #37
93. Unusual when comedians get it so wrong ... what does she think cows eat?
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #37
115. Hehe +1
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
84. True --
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hed: Eating meat linked to disease. Story: Eating too much meat linked to disease.
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 08:00 AM by Brickbat
Well, no shit. As the third graf says, the problem isn't meat, it's moderation in the U.S.

I love all sorts of meat dishes, but that doesn't mean I eat it every meal, or even every day.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
56. Years ago, I heard that, in terms of total plate area, meat should be like a condiment.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
94. No ... problem isn't moderation -- it's animal eating ---
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guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. Eat what you want
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 08:13 AM by guardian
Somebody is always whining about something. For me I say 'supersize me'.

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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
6. Eating too much anything causes problems
you can even overdo it on water (although it's a bit more difficult).
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cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Exactly. nt
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
11. "allows that meat can be an important source of protein and vitamins when eaten in moderation"
Somehow that conclusion will be ignored by the small number of vegetarian/vegans bent on converting people to their belief system.

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veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. yeah it "allows" that it can be an important source
but not the only source. You can get everything you need from a plant-based diet without requiring animal torture. It's just not worth the price paid by the animals. fellow humans could be cooked and consumed and provide a source of protein and vitamins but we've already decided that it wouldn't be worth the cost in human lives.
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Right on cue.
Someone pushing their morality onto me. Surprise, surprise.

I probably agree with you on factory farming, but I disagree with you on local non-factory farmed meat.

If you feel it is "just not worth the price paid by the animals", then that's your moral choice. Fine. I'm not telling you to change your personal decisions anymore than I'd tell someone it was moral/immoral to have an abortion. Those are personal choices and I'd prefer it if you'd stay out of my personal life choices. Otherwise you are no better than the anti-abortionists.







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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. No you cannot get everything you need from a plant based diet.
If you go that route, you need vitamin supplements. Vegetarians in their 40 and 50 used to die because of the lack of B12
Humans are Omnivores, our teeth say so.

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/20030618/vegetar...
Unlike some other B vitamins, B12 is not found in any plant food other than fortified cereals. It is, however, abundant in many meats and fish, and in smaller amounts in milk and eggs. This makes it difficult for people following a strict vegetarian diet to get the necessary amount of vitamin B12.

http://www.vegetarian-nutrition.info/positions/english/...
Vitamin B12, an essential B vitamin, is of special interest to vegetarians since it is not found in any significant amounts in plant foods. In addition, vitamin B12 deficiency can result in detrimental changes in certain body functions. It is required for the normal maturation of red blood cells and also for the synthesis of the myelin sheath of nerve tissue.

http://www.b12patch.com/vitaminb12/vitamin-b12-deficien...
It is important for vegetarians to make sure they get enough vitamin B12, an essential nutrient found only in animal products, including meat, dairy products and eggs. There are no reliable sources of vitamin B12 in vegetarian foods. Vitamin B12 analogues (substances similar to vitamin B12) are found in some plants, especially after they have been fermented with vitamin B12-producing yeast. These analogues, however, are not absorbed by humans, and may even block vitamin B12 absorption in those who follow a vegetarian diet.

And so on.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
36. Using facts with a committed vegan is like
well using facts with a committed creationist.

It won't work.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
60. I've heard Seventh Day Adventists and others make the exact opposite statement about our teeth,
comparing our teeth, a horse's teeth and a lion's teeth.

Acoonamahtahda.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. We are neither. We are Apes.
Our closest relatives are meat eaters also.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #65
89. Actually, we're rats
It turns out that rats can't synthesize ten amino acids (lysine, tryptophan, histidine, phenylalanine, leucine, isoleucine, methionine, valine, arginine and threonine) and of those humans can only synthesize arginine.

And while all humans are rats, some, like Erik Prince and anyone named Bush, are more ratlike than the rest of us.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
95. Not true -- plants have the kind of protein that you need -- not animal protein ...
The only nutrition that eating an animal provides you is from the

PLANTS they ate!!

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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #95
117. Ever hear of B12?
Guess not.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. You can get everything you need from a plant-based diet
except a DELICIOUS ribeye.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Heh.
I LOL'd. :thumbsup:
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
38. See this post.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
59. So? Things other than meat "can be" and are important sources of protein and vitamins.
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. So what?
Both meat and veggies are part of good balanced diet.

Eat in moderation is what the report is saying. It isn't saying "Don't eat any meat".
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veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
15. Unless you are a body builder or a toddler,
only moderate amounts of protein are needed, and plant based foods provide plenty. Most meat eaten by Americans is made out of vegetarian animals who get the vitamins from plant based foods of course. Anyway, in these modern times, most people by far get their meat from factory farms. Animal abuse and institutional torture are among the ingredients not listed. Eating fear and misery is bad for you. For the sake of the tortured animals alone, people should be cutting back and eliminating meat consumption.The bonus will be the benefits to your own health and happiness.
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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
31. hyperbole - it's what's for dinner!
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. I'm Not Sure the "Complementary Protein" Thing Works for Everybody
I know it works for some, but when I try to do that instead of meat, my energy level craters and I'm constantly hungry
and develop a craving for meat. I eat considerably less meat than would be in a "standard American diet", but I seem
to need at least some. The need for meat may vary considerably from person to person, possibly being dependent
on how far north their ancestors came from.

I also develop a craving for vegetables if I'm not getting enough.

I get considerably more exercise than average too. My body was never too keen on sitting still anyway
(got a lot of $# for that when I was a kid) so I try to indulge my natural desire to be in motion, as much as possible.
Swimming is good, bicycling is good, dancing is the best!

A nice piece of barbecued dead animal can be pretty damn good too, especially after a weekend of dancing.
We buy local grass-fed beef and lamb and free-range chicken. Practically all of the stores around here sell that now.
Cows and sheep have this wonderful ability to turn inedible grass into yummy food. Why the #∑ should we feed them corn?
Grass-fed meat is considerably leaner too. The purpose of a feedlot is to "fatten 'em up", but we don't WANT all that fat!
Soon, the rising price of corn will put the feedlots out of business anyway and they'll all have to go back to grass-fed.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #40
64. Dr. Neal Barnard says there are four foods with addictive qualities:
Meat, Sugar, Chocolate and Cheese. Those four things go to the pleasure center of the brain and act like a mild opiate, he says.

You need to stay away from one of these for three weeks to break the habit--that's why the craving for meat comes back. Or you can decide to have these things in moderation--no problem, as long as you know why you are craving them. Not because of a nutritional need.

http://www.nealbarnard.org/
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. water can be pretty damned addictive, too.
Try going without water for three weeks. Heck, try going without water for 2 days.

And having too much water can kill you.
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
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wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #64
74. My record for vegetarianism is 6 weeks.
I had constant migraines (including one that lasted four days), no energy and was generally miserable.

Cutting out meat meant I had to crank up carbs which triggered allergies.

It's not just a question of addiction. Not everyone has the exact same nutritional needs. I get anemic unless I eat *a lot* of iron. I take supplements, eat tons of iron rich veggies, but I still get really sick if I cut out meat completely.

I'd go vegetarian if I could, but I've tried a number of times and have never been able to stick to it without compromising other important demands (like holding down a job and getting some exercise).

Everyone needs to find their own balance based on what works for their body and what their lifestyle demands from them.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #64
76. So Do At Least 2 Neurotransmitters Produced When You Exercise
Are you gonna say I'm addicted to exercise too?

You need to stay away from one of these for three weeks to break the habit--that's why the craving for meat comes back.


so then I'll merely be constantly hungry and have no energy.


I don't buy the theory anyway. I don't get cravings for chocolate or sugar or cheese, though I do like them.

This is more of the BS that started in 1984(!) with the War on (some) Drugs, when they started to claim that anything that we enjoy is addictive.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #64
96. Interesting ... think he forgot "salt" -- because salt is a large part of any animal's body....
land most processed foods are heavily salted --

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Mr. Sinister Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #64
128. Americans seem even more addicted to cheese than meat
I know I was. I felt a million times better once I broke the habit. And no more morning breath either. But man was it rough and that delicious salty crap seems to find its way into EVERYTHING.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
81. Vegan bodybuilders do exist.
I know, I am one.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #15
116. Actually ruminants don't get all of those vitamins/proteins from the grass they eat
that is simply a food source for the bacteria in their rumen that processes it for them.

So to live off a strictly plant based diet they had to adapt their intestine to use bacterial labor to stay healthy.

We could do that too with some selective breeding and a few thousand/hundred thousand generations.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. That's why you avoid the meat that's green and fuzzy.
I try to apply the same principles to all foods.

Except cotton candy.
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
22. Anti-Inuit propaganda!
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
23. Eating too much anything is bad for your health.
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patrick t. cakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
28. meat stinks......... nt
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
29. This just in - birth fatal.
"...almost 60 percent more meat than their European counterparts..."

Okay, after spending 2 weeks in Switzerland last year, including a day at my cousins where they cooked for us, I totally call BS.

Let me guess - they hand-picked coastal "European counterparts" where seafood is the more common protein component in the diet simply because it's cheap, accessible and plentiful.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Swiss Cuisine Has More Veggies Than South German Food
After a week in Munich we were craving fresh veggies so much that our first meal in Switzerland was a huge salad.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. As long as the only vegetables you want are cabbage and potatoes
german cuisine has plenty of veggies.

Also if you could pork as a vegetable . . .
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. They Have Some Other Vegetables Too
It's kind of hard to tell what they were before they were pickled.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
34. Unrec for Bunk Headline
The article is discussing the problems with excessive consumption of meat.
The headline was obviously added by some militant vegan.
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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
46. Reminds me - I've got to get those ribs on to cook - eom
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War Horse Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
47. What kind of meat are people eating?
I'm guessing processed stuff, for the most part.

My freezer is currently stocked with moose meat, the majority of which will be consumed with serious amounts of veggies.

I have this crazy theory that I need protein, creatine, B vitamins, iron...

I have considered going vegetarian, I really have. But for ethical reasons, not health.


Btw, for those concerned about total protein intake, pea protein isolate is an actual option. It isn't perfect, but it works as a supplement. It used to taste like - well, gluteus maximus - but not anymore.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Soylent Green
That's the kind of "meat."
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
49. Well fuck. And I just had a good helping of brisket.
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
57. russian proverb:
кто не курит и не пьёт, тот здоровеньким помрёт.
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Cool Logic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
70. Brilliant deduction: Eating too much of something is bad for your health.
Did anyone out there learn anything that they did not already know?
:crazy:
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #70
80. I'm guessing that most people don't know how much is "too" much


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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
71. My face when thread is hijacked by manly men feeling threatened by vegetarianism.
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 05:17 PM by sudopod
:3

so much mad
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #71
97. I'm amazed that any info got out at all -- considering what tight control corporations
have over everything now -- !!

During Clinton administration there were huge battles over their wanting to

stress a vegetarian diet!!

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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #71
105. Most of the responses I've seen in that regard have been against
vegans who called anyone who eats meat a gluttonous animal torturer.

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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #105
119. And it makes you sooooo mad. XD nt
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 10:20 AM by sudopod
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #119
121. It's a bit obnoxious but doesn't really make me mad
kind of like listening to any religious enthusiast extolling the virtues of their way and the sins of every other way.

But your point that it was omnivores who are predominately being preachy or somehow in the wrong here is incorrect.

People are simply responding to the snideness of vegans/vegetarians and then you try to use that as proof of persecution.

Like the christian who speaks up and calls everyone else a sinner then acts victimized when people tell him to shut up. Why are they picking on that poor guy?
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #121
122. I'm not passing judgement, heh.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 11:56 AM by sudopod
I think it's hilarious that so many guys felt the need to post about how the nasty vegans are oppressing them while spamming "MMMM BACON STEAK YUM YUM YUM." They couldn't walk past. They need affirmation from the internet in their choice of noms. They can't deal with the fact that someone somewhere may think that a 1/3 lb hamburger is a bad idea.

Well, internet, what do you think of my pork burrito?

Your opinion is important to me
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #122
123. No, again, nobody is claiming vegans are oppressing them
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 02:28 PM by WatsonT
merely that they are being obnoxious.

They need affirmation from the internet in their choice of noms. They can't deal with the fact that someone somewhere may think that a 1/3 lb hamburger is a bad idea.


That's some weapon-grade irony there.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #123
126. The OP wasn't exactly a call to revolution.
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 04:17 PM by sudopod
from the article:

"The goal is to really make this information accessible to consumers," said Kari Hamerschlag, an agriculture analyst with the research and advocacy group. "On the health side, we really pulled together all of the information and tried to make it as clear as possible that there's not just one reason to limit meat consumption; there are a whole host of reasons."

The report, which weaves together statistics from various earlier studies, allows that meat can be an important source of protein and vitamins when eaten in moderation. But in the U.S., moderation may be a problem. The report cites data from the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization suggesting that Americans consume almost 60 percent more meat than their European counterparts, and four times more than in many developing countries. And much of that meat is either red or processed.
"

So when people lose their minds and complain about the veggienazis prying their baconators from their cold dead fingers on account of the OP, then yeah, it's funny, but not ironically. :p






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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #126
135. Not referring to the OP
Edited on Thu Jul-21-11 08:17 AM by WatsonT
I clearly stated some of the people on this thread were acting this way.

Are you intentionally not understanding what I write?

"So when people lose their minds and complain about the veggienazis prying their baconators from their cold dead fingers on account of the OP, then yeah, it's funny, but not ironically. :p "

Yeah, that never happened.

I'm starting to suspect you're either trolling me or have very poor reading comprehension.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #135
138. I'm sorry if I got mixed up, this is clearly very important to you. nt
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #123
131. Let me be obnoxious, then.
75-80% of all the cholesterol in our body is manufactured in our liver.

It is manufactured from saturated fat.

All saturated fat comes from animals and animal by-products, and some tropical vegetable oils.

If you don't eat these foods in the name of heart health, or do so for philosophical reasons, you are a vegan.

I had a heart attack last year. I chose to live healthier. What do you think I do?


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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #131
136. See that is not obnoxious
labeling all who eat meat as animal torturers is.

This is really not a difficult concept. I'm not sure why you two are having issues with ti.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
83. PLANTS are our nutrition, our medicines -- animal-eating is harming the planet ---
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 11:18 PM by defendandprotect
You can only eat an animal because they have first eaten plants -- !!

Except when they've been feeding them other animals and road kill -- !!!


:nuke:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #83
98. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #98
99. No use trying to reason with that poster.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #98
102. eh ... you're a little confused on that ---
What I am saying to you that YES you can eat animals -- but understand

that you can only do so because they have been able to eat PLANTS!!!


Or are you denying that they were feeding them other animals and road kill?


When you get a chance, alert on your post -- maybe a mod will come along and read

you the rules?





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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #102
106. What does the fact that they eat plants have to do with anything?
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 07:41 AM by WatsonT
Plants form the basis of every food system (and some bacteria) because they can turn sunlight in to chemical energy.

A neat trick that we don't possess.

But that has nothing to do with any nutrition derived from animal sources.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #106
124. Lost cause with that one..
She thinks man was a vegetarian until the 'rise of patriarchal religions' or some such hoohaa. Whatever you do, don't tell her that chimps and orangutans murder for sport-- that'll driver her off the deep end.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #124
125. Monkeys even understand money:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,934239...

I wonder if they have religion as well?
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
108. Teaching moderation and cooking skills is the key
We have a share in a CSA farm and every week we go pick a share of vegetables. This has caused a huge change in how we eat. We have to learn how to cook all these strange vegetables, (something I have been having alot of fun with.) and We now buy more expensive organic meat, but have smaller portions of meat in a meal. I made my first Borscht this week.... sort of a beet stew... Lots of veggies and enough for 5 people 2 meals each... one pound of meat.

Most kids and young adults cannot cook. Alot of adults can't cook either. This is a serious problem.

If we truly cared about education we would bring back cooking, nutrition and home finances in our schools. We have college educated kids who can't balance a checking account or cook anything more difficult then hamburger helper.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 05:50 PM
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127. This is very helpful, thanks...
tIndeed, Marjorie McCullough, Sc.D., strategic director of nutritional epidemiology with the American Cancer Institute, cautioned that the link between high meat consumption and a broad range of cancers -- including prostate and pancreatic -- is possible, but not entirely clear. However, she said there is a consistent association between red and processed meats and a risk of colon cancer. Scientists have hypothesized that the nitrates in processed meats are a possible culprit, as are the chemicals formed when red meat is cooked at high temperatures.

"What people always ask next, is 'what is the magic number?' in terms of servings of meat to aim for," McCullough said. "Unfortunately, there is no real magic number. I generally say that if you currently eat red meat, you should cut back by half." (The American Cancer Society recommends that people limit their intake of red and processed meats, but also does not provide an exact figure.)


Very helpful, indeed. :eyes:
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