Obama, Democrats not ready to play 14th Amendment card with debt ceiling

[TomCADem]

Source: Washington Post

On Wednesday at a White House question-and-answer session held via the Web service Twitter, Obama said the debate over raising the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling shouldn’t become a constitutional question.

“I don’t think we should even get to the constitutional issue. Congress has a responsibility to make sure we pay our bills. We’ve always paid them in the past,” Obama said. “The notion that the U.S. is going to default on its debt is just irresponsible.”

* * *

The constitutional provision at issue — Section 4 of the 14th Amendment — is a post-Civil War invention. The North had borrowed heavily to finance the Civil War, and it wanted to make sure that the Southern states reintegrating into the Union wouldn’t try to shed responsibility for the nation’s debt.

“The purpose of that clause was to prevent the political branches from using default or repudiation as a political threat,” said Jack Balkin, a constitutional law professor at Yale Law School. “It was designed to prevent this kind of gamesmanship.”


Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/obama-democrats-not-ready-to-play-14th-amendment-card-with-debt-ceiling/2011/07/06/gIQAVU1O1H_story.html

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The irony is that on DU some suggest that relying on the 14th Amendment would make President Obama a dictator. Yet, if President Obama negotiates with Republicans, then we dismiss efforts to compromise as weak. My take is that once Republicans expose that they are committed to lowering taxes above all other policy goals, then the President should seriously relying on the Constitution to prevent the sort of black mail that the Amendment was designed to prevent. And, no, I don't think that would make the President a dictator.

[Drale]

1. They may not be ready yet but

when August comes and the Republicans are still holding the country hostage, Obama will do the constitutionally right thing and pay our debts.

[pampango]

12. Good point. He shouldn't telegraph his intention to use the 14th amendment. That would

let the repubs off the hook. Give them all the rope they want to spout their teabagger fiscal austerity talking points for a few more weeks.

Repubs will not negotiate seriously. (If they did their teabagger base will go ballistic.) As the deadline approaches let them keep exposing their reckless attitudes towards the economy for what they perceive as a partisan advantage.

[lark]

21. Nope, won't happen

Obama is committed to no impeachment by giving the Repugs more than they ever would even think of asking for. Going the constitution route would require things he absolutely doesn't have - like a spine or balls.

[bluestateguy]

2. It's not a threat you wave around willy nilly

It's called a nuclear option for a reason: last resort.

He was not going to play the media's gotcha games today.

[uberblonde]

3. Of course not.

Because then he wouldn't be able to sell us out on Social Security, which is what he and his buddies planned all along.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/in-debt-talks-obama-offers-social-security-cuts/2011/07/06/gIQA2sFO1H_story.html

[Drale]

4. So now your going to believe a story in the media

no matter what the source you can not believe the media until something actually happens.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

11. He's already sold us out. What makes you think he won't do it again?

You think the Washington Post made that up? You sound like Bush apologists blaming the media for lying about Chimpy.

[Coyote_Bandit]

5. Of course not

They lack the appropriate anatomy (brain, testosterone, spine, guts) to equip them for that kind of task.

Instead of acknowledging that they are ill equipped for the job they'll pretend to play bi-partisanship games.

Color me unimpressed.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Only the War Powers Act should be ignored. nt

[OHdem10]

7. It is much easier to capitulate.

[Fearless]

8. Are they ready to do anything that isn't hurting the middle and working classes of this country?

[AndyTiedye]

9. He Knows the Supreme Court Will Side with the Republicans if He Tries the 14th

"Nuclear Options" only work for Republicans, because they require a friendly Supreme Court.

[roomfullofmirrors]

10. US constitution-article 1, sections 7 and 8:

article 1 section 7:
All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

article 1 section 8:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow money on the credit of the United States;


The constitution seems pretty clear regarding who controls the power of the purse. Furthermore, this is exactly the kind of thing that comes back to bite you in the ass later on.

[sofa king]

13. You should brush up on your terror legislation.

If the government shuts down, Continuity-of-Government provisions kick in and allow the President to do whatever Dick Cheney thought a fascist dictator would need to do to oppress the populace, extract income, set wage rates, and distribute essential goods and services.

The "unitary" theory found its way into two dozen laws that won't be declared unconstitutional before the President can execute them as per his own wishes.

Edit: I should add that those of us who oppose these laws should notice an opportunity here: if we do start using those laws, the GOP will instantly try to kick the cases straight up to the bought-and-paid-for Supreme Court. We may actually force the Republicans to kill off the legal underpinning that they themselves created.

[No Elephants]

17. Legislation never trumps the Constitution.

And impeachment still is a remedy.

[sofa king]

23. And yet Dick Cheney walks free.

Suggesting that somewhere in your observation there is a flaw.

[oNobodyo]

16. Amendment 14 section 4

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

The debt ceiling needs raised not to incur more debt but to pay the debt that already exists.

The current republican line is that the US will pay the interest on the debt and then selectively pay it's bills and therefore not go into default. The thinking is that 'entitlements' like Social Security and Medicaid aren't actual 'debts' and will be paid last...note the "pensions" language.

If it were to be challenged and brought before the SCotUS and they were to rule against the very plain and unambiguous language of the 14th...They'd in effect have to rule that their own government paychecks didn't have to be honored...

They may have the 'power' of the purse under article 1 but they have the 'responsibility' of the debt under the 14th amendment section 4.

PERIOD.

[No Elephants]

18. That referred to debt that existed when the 14th amendment was adopted.

Leaving out the bit about the Confederacy's debt doesn't change that.

[roomfullofmirrors]

19. the 14th does not mandate that they create debt for any reason,

only that they not question the validity of the debt (a statement which is itself open to interpretation) and article 1 section 8 clearly states who has the power to collect taxes, pay debts, and to borrow money on the credit of the US and that would be congress. There's certainly no guarantee that the SCOTUS would give you an outcome that you would like on this one. I think the power of the purse is so well established that they would have to decline the case in fact. It seems more likely that the law of unforeseen consequences will surely bite us on the ass in the not too distant future should we devote our energy towards this course of action. It appears that Obama agrees as he has declined to pursue this option and, instead, has chosen to offer up sacred cows in the name of a debt deal. The republicans seem unwilling to offer up their own sacred cows however which will surely be discussed at length should the country default.

[Yupster]

14. relying on the Constitution to prevent the sort of black mail that the amendment...

was designed to prevent."

This amendment was passed right after the Civil War.

It was designed to stop ex Confederate leaders from serving in high ranking spots in the US government.

It was designed to make sure the Confederate war debt was not paid.

It was designed to make sure the US war debt was paid.

Most importantly, it was designed to make freed slaves citizens of the states they lived in.

The people who wrote this amendment were not allowing for the President to borrow money without congressional approval. THat of course is a role of congress, not the president and it couldn't be any more clearly enumerated in Article I of the Constitution.

[TheDeceptiCON]

15. Gee, I'm stunned Obama's not up to a fight.

Maybe he can talk SENSE into those RepubliCON bullies?

[Doctor_J]

20. This president will never do anything to piss off the Repukes

they'll be pissed off anyway, but he considers them his masters.

[Harry Callahan]

22. The Constitution put the purse strings in the legislative branch's hands,

not the executives.