Howard Dean warns Dems Sarah Palin could beat Obama in 2012

[Synicus Maximus]

Source: the Hill

Howard Dean, the former Democratic National Committee chairman who helped Democrats capture the White House in 2008, warns that Sarah Palin could defeat President Obama in 2012.

Dean says his fellow Democrats should beware of inside-the-Beltway conventional wisdom that Obama would crush Palin in a general-election contest next year.

“I think she could win,” Dean told The Hill in an interview Friday. “She wouldn’t be my first choice if I were a Republican but I think she could win.”

Dean warns the sluggish economy could have more of a political impact than many Washington strategists and pundits assume.

Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/164765-howard-dean-warns-palin-could-beat-obama-in-2012

[hlthe2b]

1. DU's been sort of boring today... this should get the "fires" started...

:popcorn: Someone bring the keg?

[defendandprotect]

52. Was just to say... if Obama continues move to right, so many Dems may stay home that

Glenn Beck could win -- !!!

:evilgrin:

[spooked911]

80. Dem turnout for Obama will be critical and the enthusiasm won't be there

my guess is he'll win but it will be ugly

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yurbud]

207. as long as the recovery is just for the rich and shared sacrifice is for the working & middle class

he's right.

[lemonnn]

2. Wife, 3 sons, and mother in law are gung ho on Palin.

Two of my sons are serving their country - Air Force & Marines. Not much respect for Obama in either.

[hlthe2b]

3. I think you should test your water....

Lead pipes?

[Fumesucker]

10. More to do with what church they attend I suspect..

Palin's supporters tend to come from among the fundies, I know several and they are fundies, each and every one.

Every bit as destructive of brain function as lead water pipes.

[Frisbee]

17. Biggest difference is...

Lead poisons the body, fundamentalism poisons the soul.

[SoapBox]

20. Super DITTO.

...sister and brother-in-law in Central Michigan...go to a very small, old school Baptist church...they have had splits and fights and stuff like that...and dozens of preachers...and who do they like, the ones that preach for women to be in "their" place, white people and against Prez O.

From the pulpit? With a Bible in hand?

Nuts...and so full of hate and anger. And being good little members, they do whatever the Chief Brainwasher says to do.

Terrifying.

[lumberjack_jeff]

172. So how do we undermine her support among fundies?

They don't care that she is the most likely to cause the end of the world. They don't care that she's stupid and incurious. They don't care that she likes to kill stuff from helicopters. They don't care that she bailed on her state to make the big bucks on tour.

What would they care about?
- they'd care if they thought she had an abortion.
- they'd care if she had an affair, with anyone other than a male fundie.
- they'd care if she were shown to be a shitty mom.

When her entire base of support is a cult of personality, the only way to combat her is personally. Talking about issues is just bla bla bla to them. Ratfucking is an underrated skill.

[AlbertCat]

184. - they'd care if she were shown to be a shitty mom.

Thank gawd she didn't have a teenage daughter who's an unwed mother, or she drag her infant around as a campaign prop!

:eyes:

She could hike her skirt up and take a dump on the podium and these brain dead superstitionists wouldn't care.

[wickerwoman]

222. They wouldn't care about any of those thing either.

Bush was an AWOL, coke-addled, male cheerleading, frog blowing up, chimp-faced buffoon who ran everything he ever touched straight into the ground and these people still think he was the greatest president ever.

Once you sign on to the Republican brand name and you have the church leaders and Fox News pimping you 24/7, it no longer really matters who you are or what you do.

20-25% of the population is never, ever going to vote for anyone other than the latest sockpuppet anointed by Roger Ailes and the powers that be. And they all turn up and vote.

We beat Palin, not by discrediting her (as if she hasn't done a good enough job of that herself within anyone who has two braincells to rub together). We beat her by mobilizing and energizing the 70% of the population that wants to see millionaires taxed appropriately, that wants a roll back on tax cuts to the top 1% and that doesn't want to see Medicare and Social Security stripped while the Pentagon is still given every damn absurd toy the ask for.

[Enthusiast]

187. LMAO!

:rofl:

[godai]

7. They are 5 people in a small minority who feel that way. n/t

[sabrina 1]

11. Republican family members are scared to death of Palin.

Actually might vote Democratic for the first time, if she runs.

[JTFrog]

13. Derp. n/t

[K8-EEE]

22. My MIL voted DEM first time in her 82 years b/c of Palin

She said the GOP had no regard for the country to put that idiot 2nd in charge with an old man.

[Trajan]

31. She is a favorite of the Idiots Brigade ....

Not much respect for them in that brigade here ...

I appreciate that your two sons are serving their country, and thanks for that, but I hope you reminded them that, as members of the US Military, they have on obligation to respect the office of President of the United States of America, as Commander in Chief of it's Armed Forces .... The office is currently held by Barack Obama.

Surely their father has taught them to respect the highest commander of the nation ..... right ?

[alp227]

36. sorry to hear that, welcome to DU though! n/t

[defendandprotect]

55. Where do they get their news from? Mom-in-law doesn't like SS and Medicare?

Or would you and your wife would prefer to support her?

Tough picture to envision -- !!

Are they T-baggers?

[Peregrine Took]

72. My brother is nutz about her and he has an MBA from Univ. of Chicago

Just saying - she's appealing to folks from all walks of life.

He is a senior citizen but he says he loves her spunk.

[HankyDubs]

113. having an MBA

isn't evidence of being educated.

[RoccoR5955]

128. MBA, as in Major Brain Ailment! n/t

[Walk away]

169. Sounds like he should have gone for an MBA in his pants! nt

[Walk away]

171. Sorry duplicate.

[iemitsu]

178. MBA programs don't teach ethics.

[AlbertCat]

188. he loves her spunk.

Spunk being the way she cheerily proves she's dumber than a box of dirt? The energy she puts into word salad about things she hasn't a clue about? How she blindly tears forth without knowing where she is or what direction she's going? The burst of joy she gets fleecing her gullible audience as she laughs all the way to the bank?

What's not to love, eh?

[liberation]

213. An MBA from U of Chicago?

U of C is the alma mater of the neo-con movement in this country, and their economics dept was literally the Vienna School in exile. Add that to the track record of our previous "MBA President" and well... give my congrats to your brother on the twofer, which has been upgrade to trifecta with his "love" for Palin's spunk.

Some stereotypes just write themselves... LOL

[a la izquierda]

223. MBA from Chicago...

ever heard of the Chicago Boys? Poison is what they are (or were, I guess), so color me unsurprised that your MBA brother supports Palin.

[Arkana]

98. Well thank you for your story which is based entirely on anecdotal evidence.

[Enthusiast]

185. They don't respect him, because?

He's a Muslin, terrist, America hating black man, foreign born and socialist? Doesn't have enough war?

[Faygo Kid]

204. Get back to Free Republic. Sentient beings post here on DU. Mods?

Go away.

[lsewpershad]

205. Too bad

He is our president in spite of those who hate him.

[liberation]

212. LOL

A the wonder of the "personal anecdotes" of anonymous internet forums.

My six navy seal kids have the opposite opinion, ergo it must be true...

[Turborama]

227. Were they/you impressed by this...?

[godai]

4. What he's really saying is. PLEASE nominate her.

He would never say that she can't win but everyone, including Palin, knows that she can't even get nominated.

[SpiralHawk]

6. + 1,000

"Please, O please don't throw me in that briar patch."

- Br'er Howard Remus Rabbit

[SoDesuKa]

32. Horse Races

Horse races aren't decided at the parimutuel window. Jockeys have to actually run them. Sarah Palin has enthusiastic followers, that's why the news media follows her around. There are lots of surprises in politics.

[cosmicone]

63. +2000 great machiavellian strategy to make the pukes nominate her n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

229. ITA

Thanks you Howard Dean! Go right on ahead and keep saying it until she gets the nomination. :rofl:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

5. Republicans are generally stupid enough

so they may likely nominate her

[RKP5637]

8. Yep, they would, I have no doubt. The GOP is the epicenter of Stupidity. It didn't

used to be that way years ago, but they've done nothing but move into stupidity.

[AlbertCat]

189. done nothing but move into stupidity.

Goes hand in hand with religion.

[RKP5637]

192. Yep, it sure does. The more and more they got into religion the more RW and

far out they got into Stupidland. If I were talented and looking at this country from the outside I would avoid immigrating to the US.

I'm really concerned about what a whacked out place the US will be if the Rs ever get full control again. Just looking at what the R governors have done and the teabaggers in congress lets one know what a dismal future the R's would make for the US.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

56. Reagan never had a 30/60 approve/disapprove rating

He was unknown enough to pull the wool over people's eyes.
Folks already know Palin's an idiot and a wingnut. The more they see her, the less they like her.

Take a look at this chart and tell me this a candidate with a chance of winning a general:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/13/fav-palin_n_725513.html

[Odin2005]

9. Remember that folks dismissed Reagan, too.

People said he was too dumb and crazy, and look what happened.

[ngant17]

73. Raygun leveraged a win based on the October Surprise

which torpedoed Carter's election ship to the bottom of the sea.

There was a lot of dirty deals that had to be made for that to happen.

The history lesson I get from Raygun is that any President has the potential to be re-elected, no matter how silly or MIA/AWOL the state of mind may have been during the previous first term. There was absolutely nothing in that guy's brain that ever resembled intelligence. That classic Pink Floyd song said it all ("Yet Another Movie)!

[Jackpine Radical]

96. Elections are no less corrupt these days.

All you need is big money behind you, the support of the corpomedia and a few technicians with voting machine hacking skills

[AndyTiedye]

225. They Only Need to "Deliver" the 27 States That Are Under Full Teabagger Control

In 27 states, there is a Teabagger governor, Teabagger Secretary of State, and Teabaggers completely control the legislature. Those 27 States have 270 electoral votes.
They have been busy passing new, stringent voter ID laws to disenfranchise as many Democrats as possible. They will likely be taking other voter suppression measures as well.

They also get to count the votes. That has worked out rather badly for us in the past.

[BlueMTexpat]

154. Raygun also had completed two terms as Governor of CA, which is one

of the largest economies in the world, unlike Palin who couldn't even stand the heat to complete more than half a term as Gov of AK. Of course, Raygun also laid the foundations for destroying CA's economy. Prop 13 passed three years after he left office. Even Bush II had completed one term as Gov of TX. Plus II had the full force and backing of the BFEE and Faux.

Howard is crazy like a fox (not a faux). But yes, any idiot with money and backing can get elected to the Presidency. Both Raygun and II are proof of that. Worse, as was proven with II, an election can be stolen before our eyes and our Prez and Veep can commit war crimes without ever having to be held accountable. At least, not yet.

[lumberjack_jeff]

173. Yes. And? n/t

[mwb970]

165. Yes, but people were wrong about Reagan.

It turns out he wasn't actually dumb or crazy. Palin is both, in spades.

[Kingofalldems]

12. He's doing some PSYOPS on the republicans

[BREMPRO]

18. think so... he's trying to give her credibility to get her to be taken seriously

so we can have laughable debates, amusing media circuses, and a republican party fracture... can't believe he's serious.

[blackbart99]

161. its actually brilliant strategy....

The republican party has never been so fractured. Its time to take that splitting maul and drive it
home with the biggest sledge we have...their own insanity. We could splinter the party into several
smaller and more contentious factions that could never agree on anything ever again.

We win....that of course means we need some Democrats that have enough spine and fortitude
to take advantage of the situation. Where are we going to find those guys?

[MannyGoldstein]

14. Dean should STFU

What does he know about elections!

What... you say that Democrats won majorities in the House and Senate in both elections where he was DNC chair? Well, in that case, I guess he knows something.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_I5F4U2tYwmk/TD_DkOOfQFI/AAAAAAAACYA/SnSahR6FnQ8/s400/Emily+LItella.jpg

[Fearless]

15. He's basically saying just don't sit on your laurels.

It's not all that shocking. Moving on...

[sendero]

164. Especially when..

... your laurels are few and far between.

[SoapBox]

16. Hmmmm...where do I start.

I do WANT to think that Crazy Sarah would lose badly (or any of the other frack'n crazy loons that The Party of Thug has out there) but...we have a lot of crazy, uneducated and brainwashed in this country...Remember, nothing is certain but death and taxes (taxes only for 99% of us).

The Dems/Libs/Progressives should NOT for ONE SECOND underestimate these wackies. We now know, they will spend, spend, spend every penny they have to see this Prez of Color gone. They will LIE, LIE, LIE and cheat to get what they want...it's going to get to the point that they will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to see us put out of power, now and forever.

SO...it might sound kind of crazy what Dr. Howie says...but the message is clear.

Dems/Libs/Progressives...normal people...SNAP out of your comma for any of the upcoming elections.

It is war.

[onehandle]

19. Translation: President Obama is weak and vulnerable.

Palin won't run, so she doesn't worry me.

[SoDesuKa]

26. Enthusiasm Gap Cost Humphrey in 1968

In 1968 Hubert Humphrey made the mistake of thinking there was more support for the Vietnam war than there actually was. As a result he waited nearly till Election Day to come out against the war. It cost him the election, because by then he wasn't enough of an alternative to Nixon.

Think Obama can continue to presume the left has nowhere to go? Democrats have done that before.

[No Elephants]

158. Do you think Humphrey overestimated support for the war, or that he did not want to throw LBJ under

the bus?

[PuffedMica]

62. +1

Dean can't be serious that Palin could win. It must be his intent to kick the Democratic party into gear so we don't get blindsided in the 2012 election.

[underpants]

69. chum - he is just trying to draw her in to the shallow waters

[tavalon]

112. You're right, Palin won't run. Too much like work,that and talking cherently

Though that didn't seem to stop the shrub. But this grifter wants the accolades without the work.

[ClusterFreak]

21. Quick!

Somebody warn the British!

:P

[No Elephants]

159. Thread winner

[napi21]

23. I almost always agree with Howard, but not this time. It's true that the Pubs are

dumb enough to voe for her, but I don't believe the Indies are, and certainly there would be NO Dem crossover votes for her. I believe that the Indies are really the people who always elect a President because they are the voter who listen to all the candidates and are willing to vote for the one they favor, without any party loyalies to consider.

[SoDesuKa]

27. Tepid Support for Obama

Obama continues to amble along as though he has all the time in the world to close the deal with '12 voters, but he doesn't. Personally, I would never vote for a Republican, and it's unlikely that I would simply stay home. But I can easily imagine other Democrats not bothering to show up at the polls on Election Day.

Break promises to people who voted for you once, they may not vote for you again.

[RKP5637]

40. I think there's a real possibility of disenchanted voters staying home, especially

if unemployment continues, foreclosures continue, and they are also still getting screwed by the banksters and wall street. There are a lot of unhappy people in this country and many that really haven't seen any change. Obama might not be a shoo-in for 2012. I don't think any dems should consider 2012 a given. SH** happens. Who thought Bush would be in a second term.

[Autumn]

228. Hell, I knew Bush wasn't going to get a first term

I sure was stupid.

[iemitsu]

181. not just broken promises but displaying outright disdain

for those who worked hard for his election and turning on the workers of america in favor of the wealthiest won't help obama either.
actually, the right's hatred of obama has to be based on race as obama has done nothing liberal since entering the whitehouse.
it will be hard for me to vote for obama (though i will probably do it) because i am a teacher and there has never been a president so hostile to teachers in the history of our country.
i think it is an uphill battle for obama no matter who his opponent is.

[SoDesuKa]

24. Dem GOTV Could Suffer If Obama Continues to Piss Off the Left

Support on the left is at best tepid for Obama, and it could be even more so at the time of the election. Obama has really taken the left for granted, so much so that they regard him as a Republican president.

The 2012 election may depend on voter enthusiasm. Truman's axiom comes to mind, "When voters have to choose between a Democrat who acts like a Republican and a real Republican, they generally favor the real Republican."

[defendandprotect]

60. It's even more than that -- Obama is now so far to the right ....

have turned his campaign pledges upside down --

and being in such sync with corporates/Wall St and out of sync with public --

that unless they begin to see another option on the Dem ticket, they

may begin to think of tossing the election up in the air to get rid of Obama.

I've always thought that was a really dumb way to go, but it could happen.

[Heavy Metal Dude]

89. Obama is so far to the right that...

the less intelligent Independents might think Sarah is on the left of him.

[defendandprotect]

153. No ... but some people thinking that "tossing out guy you're displased with" ...

can ultimately move you to where you want to be --

Didn't Canadians try that method? Didn't work, but think it was discussed

here on DU that some thought that's what they were doing.

But I think Americans clearly know what they want --


Social Security/Medicare

Medicare for All

End to the Wars

Reduction in MIC

Healthy economy with job growth


Doubt that the rightwing will be offering anything like that -- !!

PLUS, I think that Obama showed his hand very clearly in setting up the

"Cat Food Commission" and after the back room deals which trampled

single payer/MEDICARE FOR ALL -- and extending tax cuts for the rich --

Democratic voters may be watching very him very closely?

ALSO, it was Obama -- not Bush -- who has interrupted the COLA's --

One more reason for questioning his commitment to Social Security and seniors --

[tavalon]

116. Lost me

I was one of the ground troops in 2008. I'll vote for him because of the supreme court but I won't GOTV.

[harun]

149. Most are going to stay home. We are going to vote for Corporate approved candidate

A or B. Nothing to get excited about.

[millijac]

25. Just got back from MA Dem Convention

and a workshop on Scott Brown. We can laugh now, but it could be at our peril.

I laughed when people said George Bush would be president.

I laughed when people said Scott Brown had no chance, but given the above, not quite as loudly as I had before.

Don't take anything for granted. This election is ours to LOSE. From Scott Brown to Barack Obama to every single House seat. The momentum is in our favor and I think, finally, that we're seeing some cohesive messaging coming out of our party. We talked a great deal today about doing what the GOP does expertly. Framing the message and staying on point. We're learning and we're taking nothing, not one single election for granted. We are energized, organized, and motorized. We've got 17 months people.

We're never going to find a perfect candidate. That person does not exist. But consider losing the Presidency, keeping the Senate, and winning back the House. It would still be a failure. Do I think it's going to happen. No. But I ain't taking nothing for granted.

The battle starts now.

[SoapBox]

39. I absolutely agree. Every single poster here at DU should be taking this dead serious...

Ya...may be not Crazy Palin...but there are so many Righty Crazies, that it concerns me.

OR...bottom line, no matter who the Righties pick...Are we gonna be able to fend them off???????

Wake up folks. I take talk like Howies DEAD SERIOUS.

[RKP5637]

48. +1000 +++ n/t

[Moostache]

Then light the fires and watch the nation burn...

Seriously, if the Democratic Party cannot convey a message of sober reality strong enough to fend off a grade A idiot like Palin - and SPARE ME THE REAGAN COMPARISONS - HE COULD SPEAK INTELLIGENTLY AND DELIVER A SPEECH WITHOUT HAVING A BRAIN SEIZURE EVERY 3 SECONDS OFF SCRIPT - then there is nothing worth saving in this nation.

If my fellow Americans actually elect her, then it really is time to get out of Dodge and find a new home. I will watch with a broken heart from a far as an ex-pat living in exile until the raging inferno that was America is burned out. Good luck to any who would remain in such a busted nation-state and best wishes with the new state-mandated religious services and civil holy wars to boot.

France (the corporate home of my current employer) has never looked better...

[sendero]

109. Speech?

THAT IS OBAMA'S PROBLEM - SPEECH IS THE ONLY THING HE DOES WELL.

When people are struggling to feed themselves and stay in their homes SPEECH is worth a bucket of warm spit.

Obama has VERY LITTLE TIME to DO SOMETHING, and I for one don't think it is in him.

[RKP5637]

201. If the country were stupid enough to elect a loon like Palin, I doubt there

would be much left of the old America to save. If the majority were to think Palin is capable, then that spells the end. This would become a totalitarian nation making the Bush/Cheney years look like far left liberals.

[RKP5637]

47. IMO this has been the dems problem for a long time. "Framing the message and

staying on point." Dem messaging often stinks and many opportunities are often missed by dems. Phraseology needs to be clever, short, succinct and at about a 4th grade level, and repeated over and over again.

Bush, for example, was a master IMO at short stupid phrases, but they stuck. The dems also need to stick together with coherent messaging and the same talking points rather than sounding like a bunch of splinter groups. If not, they confuse voters, positions are easily attacked and voters wonder WTF. A good example of dems lousy messaging was the healthcare mess IMO.

[defendandprotect]

65. Why would Dems "message stink" ... ? If they're so dumb why are we voting for them?

The problem seems to be a little deeper --


Like candidates who are pre-bribed and pre-owned by corporations --

and 44% of our Congress being millionaires and multi-millionaires --




and this ...


The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

Democratic Party has been harboring the Koch/DLC in the Democratic Party for two decades --

any Democrat ever mention that?

[RKP5637]

74. You know, I was just reading about that recently, Democratic Party harboring the Koch/DLC

in the Democratic Party for two decades. I've never heard any dem asked that and certainly not mentioned by any.

Many of my independent friends always tell me R=D. When I hear of things like this it often makes me wonder who is being played against whom. With Citizens United I am really really concerned about where we are headed.

I was telling some republican friends recently that they need to get off the paradigm that R and D have nothing in common when it comes to the bribery of congress. Many in congress R and D are in the same bucket, having so much money and influence that they are absolutely insular to most Americans. I've also had some major contributors to the democratic party tell me the same.

I would love to see a very strong progressive run for president. I have to admit, I've been pretty disappointed, I feel like we're still strongly into trickle down and voodoo economics. I feel the people, for the most part, come last.

[defendandprotect]

76. Let's draft Sen. Bernie Sanders -- he can run on a Dem ticket --

and let's fight to have the Dem Party give up corporate $$$ --

They're only getting $1 for every $7 the Repugs get any way!!

Those were the numbers in 2010!!

Unions can't support elections any longer --

So pretty much the only place money will come from is the right --

and we know the consequences of that!



PS: There are still differences between the Dem Party and the Repugs --

but the differences are fading fast!!

[RKP5637]

78. I really like Sen. Bernie Sanders. He's one of the few that make sense to

me anymore and one of the few I trust. At some point someone has to stand up and say I am the president of and for the people. We need a president that can make real change, not just more deals.

[SoapBox]

119. Speaking of Bernie...

...as many might have noticed, the Sunday morning talkers are heavily RushThug.

"Why Does the Corporate Mainstream Media Shut Out Bernie Sanders?"

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2011/06/04/why-does-the-corporate-mainstream-media-shut-out-bernie-sanders/

along with an earlier post,

"Senator Bernie Sanders Belongs on the Sunday Shows"

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2011/06/02/senator-bernie-sanders-belongs-on-the-sunday-shows/

[defendandprotect]

145. If anything has ever reeked of corruption it's been the Sunday Talk Shows...

My BS meter was never able to allow for watching them -- !!

EXCEPT should you ever come across Malcolm X, MLK, Jr. -- Bobby Kennedy --

Gore Vidal video from some of the shows in the 60's -- Wow!


However bad they may be, they would certainly be helped by having Bernie Sanders on!!

:)

[Enthusiast]

191. The Sunday talk shows are now so one sided

that I will not even consider turning them on. They have been one-sided for a long time but now it is so in your face one sided. Fuck that. I can turn on Fox News any time I get a hankering for pure propaganda.

[defendandprotect]

68. Sadly, the "healthcare mess" had to do with Obama making back room deals with Big Pharma

and the private Health Care industry --

If you want more info on that, let me know.

[RKP5637]

77. No, I heard about that during the healthcare discussions. I was quite

disappointed about it because I feel although progress was made, in many ways it's still the same system.

[defendandprotect]

79. Exactly --- Read this ...

DLC/Rahm "crowing" about how they saved the PRIVATE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY!!
Rahm .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!

DU 8/12/10


”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry;

the fact that the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system;

the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...







If that doesn't make you sick to your stomach, nothing will!


Also there are NY Times articles re the "back room deals" by Obama if you want them...

[RKP5637]

82. That's what gets me with these backroom deals. IMO they're not

working for the benefit of the majority of the people, but select groups and payback favors. Hence, it gives a slight of hand feeling to all of the shenanigans. We'll be back visiting all of this healthcare stuff again or a new regime will come in one day and just throw everyone over the cliff.

Pretty much like with the banksters and wall street, healthcare is in essence business as usual IMO.

If you have the links handy for the NY Times articles re the "back room deals" by Obama, yes I would like to read them.

Thanks

[defendandprotect]

143. Here ....

Big Pharma -- no negotiation with Medicare on drug prices --

Page 2 --

Drug industry lobbyists said they negotiated a deal to contribute $80 billion over 10 years toward the cost of an overhaul with Mr. Baucus, under White House supervision, before taking it to the president for final approval. House lawmakers have said they were caught by surprise when it was announced.

Hospital industry lobbyists, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of alienating the White House, say they negotiated their $155 billion in concessions with Mr. Baucus and the administration in tandem. House staff members were present, including for at least one White House meeting, but their role was peripheral, the lobbyists said.

Several hospital lobbyists involved in the White House deals said it was understood as a condition of their support that the final legislation would not include a government-run health plan paying Medicare rates — generally 80 percent of private sector rates — or controlled by the secretary of health and human services.

“We have an agreement with the White House that I’m very confident will be seen all the way through conference,” one of the industry lobbyists, Chip Kahn, director of the Federation of American Hospitals, told a Capitol Hill newsletter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/policy/13health.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

and here --

9/19/10

WASHINGTON — Pressed by industry lobbyists, White House officials on Wednesday assured drug makers that the administration stood by a behind-the-scenes deal to block any Congressional effort to extract cost savings from them beyond an agreed-upon $80 billion.

Drug industry lobbyists reacted with alarm this week to a House health care overhaul measure that would allow the government to negotiate drug prices and demand additional rebates from drug manufacturers.

In response,the industry successfully demanded that the White House explicitly acknowledge for the first time that it had committed to protect drug makers from bearing further costs in the overhaul. The Obama administration had never spelled out the details of the agreement.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insur...

[izquierdista]

120. Short stupid phrases

Barbara probably started noticing that around 1949.

[RKP5637]

133. Yeah! LOL!!!

[BlueMTexpat]

155. Thank you for all you are doing! nt

[Champion Jack]

28. Great reverse Psychology Dean! Yes Run Caribou Barbie Please

[ladjf]

33. I think he is serious about Palin beating Obama. He knows how

gullible the American public is. In her case the medium is the message. Her messages are weak but the manner in which she delivers them is extremely effective to a certain percentage of listeners.
She is an attractive woman who instinctively knows how to use her gifts.

Obama is not without oratory skills himself. However, after about 50 times of hearing the same speech over an over, he loses his appeal. (At least with me.)

[tavalon]

117. If Palin ran and beat President Obama

Who would actually be running the county? I think Cheney is much too old to get back into shadow governing. I do know that the IQ of that woman is too low for the job.

[ladjf]

208. Possibly her husband. nt

[ladjf]

29. I watched a good program on the Military channel today on TV about

the rise of Hitler to power in the 30's. It was pointed out that Hitler's skills as a speaker combined with the mindset of the German people during that period were the keys to his success.
He was skillfully pandering to deep rooted resentments, racism and hard economical times.

He was able to convince Germans that he could lead them out of the depression,throw of the yoke of Jewish oppression and return Germany to it's rightful place was a world leader.

I'm not saying that Mrs. Palin is like Hitler or that she is copying his style or strategy. I believe that it isn't so much that she is like Hitler, it's that the American people are in much of the same frame of mind politically as the German people of the 30's. The scapegoats aren't the Jews, but rather the "liberal progressives", atheists and Muslims, the immigrants and pretty much anyone else that they to consider to be "one of them".

We have the unemployment as Germany did. The Republicans, Tea Partiers and Conservatives are trying to convince Americans that they know how to get us out of the current financial hole (even though it was the Republicans that largely put us there.)

The 2012 election will be fought over the unemployment issue. The Republicans say cut everything to the bone no matter what and that their actions will cause businesses to start investing again. (Why would they do that when fewer and fewer people have jobs due to budget cuts everywhere?)

The Democrats have made some efforts to raise the employment rate with a moderate amount of success. They need to listen to Dr. Reich. He has more concrete ideas about how to do it that any one else.
Right now Obama seems to be listening to Wall street mostly.

Mrs. Palin isn't the only charismatic Republican on the scene. We have Bachmann and Haley to name a couple of the "Joan of Arc" women.

I don't have the foggiest idea how this will unfold in the short-run. In the long run, say 30 or 40 years from now, after every possible dumb idea has been tried with no success, maybe America will decide to use their brains for a big change and things will eventually work out. But, for us senior citizens we can only hope that our grandchildren will have better leadership than what we have had.

[SoapBox]

42. Something like this maybe?

"THE CROSS, THE FLAG, AND AMERICAN IDOLATRY
How Symbolism Is Today’s National Idolatry"

http://tpjmagazine.us/adams29

[RKP5637]

61. Yep, that is exactly it IMO! There's a lot of real weirdness going on in this

country. I feel it's the most unstable I've seen it in my lifetime of years. And the RW and religious crap is out of control.

[Enthusiast]

193. The media is really contributing

to this instability and weirdness.

It is as if the entire nation is now under the control of a super powerful, ultra secret right wing-corporate black operation.

[RKP5637]

196. You know, it sounds like a conspiracy theory, but often I've said the same, that

it's like the media is under a clandestine directive to spew instability, weirdness, disinformation, misinformation, hysteria and outright lies, while suppressing truthful valid information.

I'm not saying that comes from the Obama administration, but that it seems to be directed overtly than by coincidence.

When I spin the news channels often IMO the reporting looks like it should be right from a SNL skit. In fact, many of the shows on traditional TV are pretty weird IMO, and infomercials are weird.

It like there's a conspiracy to promote a dumbed down nation, instability and weirdness by some "super powerful, ultra secret right wing-corporate black operation."

I wish so many Americans were not so gullible and naive. IMO it's an easily mislead nation.

[ladjf]

210. A few hundred rich men might be calling 90% of the shots. nt

[ladjf]

209. We are in the midst of an religious fundamentalism epidemic and

the prognosis could be fatal to our form of Government. nt

[RKP5637]

216. Agree! I think there is a very conscious effort underway to convert the US

to a theocracy, a Christian state. From what I've read they are working on the military and if they take the gov. Americas' way of life will change drastically and I bet many Americans will say WTF, how did this happen.

I would not be surprised to see this country descend into civil war during my lifetime, and that is very sad to say. What always irks me about these fundies it's not good enough they they've mentally screwed up themselves and everyone around them, they want to legally force everyone to be just like them.

It's the same mentality as we're seen in many despotic states over the decades/centuries.

[ladjf]

230. The Religious Right is playing right into the hands of the very

wealthy by rallying their people to vote monolithically for candidates that can be easily bribed. The wealthy fascists are well aware that the same mind set that could be the illogical views held by the religious right is perfect for being controlled by an owned media.

[ladjf]

95. Yes. That's similar. nt

[RKP5637]

58. This, is Obama's Achilles heel! "... listening to Wall street mostly." And then

thinking masses of people are going to listen and vote for him. I think there is chance Obama will not win in 2012 if the right combination of factors come into play. Masses of Americans are often ignorant and stupid when it comes to voting. There are also many Americans absolutely PO'ed about everything.

I've mentioned Germany to people and I get this deer in the headlight look. I think anyone thinking Obama is an automatic win in 2012 is a damn fool. 2012 well might be the most critical election in years and dems need to fight hard for 2012 for Obama to be sure to win.

[ladjf]

97. Obama, IMO, is not a Democrat at heart nor do I think he has the

best interest of the American people. He has not been a good Democratic president. However, the Republicans are worse, particularly the Republicans in Congress. The election of 2012 will not have any great candidates from either party. Now, if Obama would graciously decide to step down, (no chance of that), then we might could round up a more qualified candidate. That's just a pipe dream.

[lonestarnot]

30. Yeah, that pile of money pugs are sitting on could do much to damage but not defeat Mr. President.

Guess he didn'tcount on that when he caved to giving richies an extension of bushitler's tax-cuts. America is really stupid sometimes but not stupid enough to elect quitter to run shit.

[certainot]

34. she's the limbaugh talk radio candidate and here's a limbaugh-out-of-universities petition

http://signon.org/sign/american-universities-1?source=c.url&r_by=241761

text:

American Universities: Stop broadcasting athletics on Rush Limbaugh radio stations.

To be delivered to: American Universities and Colleges

“We the undersigned, demand that our state funded universities and colleges immediately find alternative non-partisan radio stations to broadcast their athletics.

By broadcasting on Rush Limbaugh and other political talk radio stations they endorse partisan political propaganda, global warming denial, hate, racism, and attacks on our unions and teachers, and therefore contradict their own stated goals and mission statements.”
Most talk radio stations in the US are dedicated to partisan politics and pro corporate propaganda. On most, only a small percentage of their prime time broadcasting includes non-partisan programing including state and local sports, weather, and traffic.


By broadcasting athletics on these stations our universities endorse and give community credibility and acceptability to talk stars like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Michael Savage, and significantly increase their local ad revenues.
Most national talkers are protected by call screeners from challenge and correction. There is evidence of regular participation by paid callers.


Long term attacks by these and other national and local talkers directed at teachers, unions, global warming science, as well as coordinated political disinformation and direct and inferred racism, sexism, and hate mongering, make radio stations that broadcast them unacceptable partners for American institutions of higher learning, as well as their students and faculty.

[Nossida]

35. All of this pathetic trivium

Palin,Beck,Boortz,Fox,Huckabee,
Hagee, etc, etc, etc,

all leading America down the
Theocratic Dictatorship path.
With 1% living like Gods, &
the other 99% living like rabble.

The Republican Vision of America.

[SoapBox]

41. ...excellant.

[alp227]

37. Palin beating Obama? Likely as a flying ostrich.

Unless liberal voters organize a mass sit-out (really really really times infinity STUPID). I think that the furthest that Palin can go in 2012 is a running mate consideration by Huckabee or Romney or Pawlenty.

[pstokely]

132. Enough idiots out there that will vote for her

Same idiots who thought the Chimp had a real ranch

[The Second Stone]

38. After W I would think that any idiot could win

but I know a lot of long time Republicans that would never ever vote for Palin and would vote against her. I'm really unhappy with Obama, but there is no way I'd not vote for him if she was his opponent.

[bahrbearian]

43. The way Obama is disenfranchising the base it could happed, people will stay home.

He threw Dean under the bus 2 years ago.

[SoapBox]

44. And don't forget, the RushThugs in many states are working as hard and fast as they can...

requiring various types of ID's, so that you can vote.

Every...Single...Vote counts.

And if they can eliminate any American citizen from voting, just because they don't have a driver's license or passport...that's BAD for Dems.

[bahrbearian]

45. That too

[and-justice-for-all]

46. Oh pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.

:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

49. Public wants to move to left -- 80% want end to wars -- 76%+ want MEDICARE FOR ALL...

Public wants to move to the LEFT --

Not into RW Hell --

Think Dean is nuts! But still like him!!

We need someone like Bernie Sanders to run on Dem ticket --

two strong anti-war candidates needed -- maybe Tom Hayden for VP?

[Bucky]

54. You're right on substance, but wrong on public perceptions.

People logically want a more progressive, activist government on specific issues, but they still respond to Republican rhetoric. What people respond to is decisive leadership that makes them feel like something is being done, that things are gonna get better. A smart Republican could tap into that vein, almost regardless of what the logic of his policy proposals will create. Republicans haven't gone broke yet underestimating the gullibility of the voting public.

[RKP5637]

66. Republicans consistently know how to work IMO the gullibility of the voting public, but

the democrats, not so good at working the gullibility and stupid factors of Americans.

[defendandprotect]

85. You're saying that Democrats aren't as smart as Repugs ... ???

Or that Repugs are just better gangsters?

Keep in mind that SILENCE is also an answer --

and rw propaganda works best when there is no one opposing what you're saying --

when your opposition remains quiet.


Neither are Americans stupid -- though elites work to make them stupid --

We don't know what role the voting computers have played in gimmicking the elections since

the late 1960's -- but we do know what Fox/Jon Ellis did with the LARGE computers used

by MSM in 2000 -- they used it to REVERSE the call for Gore into a win for W in Florida!


What is clear is that the rw has to own and control everything because any iota of truth

is a serious threat to their myths -- it's like a pebble hitting a mirror -- it shatters it!!

[RKP5637]

92. I think the Repugs are just better gangsters and there is also a major

effort in this country to make the masses ignorant, and that will place America at a significant disadvantage in the 21st century. I do have a real distrust concerning the integrity of elections anymore in the US.

[defendandprotect]

141. About time ... !! Evidently the Dem Party -- as related by Thom Hartmann --

decided that they weren't going to discuss computer voting because Democratic

Party voters might stay home if they thought our elections weren't honest!!

We have to recognize that the GOP didn't do this alone --

Look at presence of Koch Bros./DLC in the Dem Party for 20 years or so!!

Any Democratic Party member ever tell the public about that?

No one in the Democratic Party knew the history of the Koch Bros -- ???????????

Certainly a decade more ago or so there was a female reporter tracking them --

remember reading her article but don't recall where it was published.

I'll try to see if I can trace it. They are vile people.

If we don't regain control of our government we will have no opportunity to address

Global Warming -- which is the biggest threat to the nation and humanity.

Most people don't understand that there has been a 50 year gap or delay in our feeling

the effects of Global Warming which is how the oil industry/ExxonMobil was able to

fool the public for so long. People are now only beginning to ask, "What the hell is

going on?" re the weather. Basically, we're only now feeling the effects of human

activity on the planet up to about 1960.


The only way the right wing can rise is via political violence -- and we've had more

than 50 years of that!

However, that couldn't go on indefinitely -- and I'd question whether there ever was a

"Southern Strategy" or whether there were only the electronic voting machines which

began to come in during the late 1960's?

The LARGE computers used by MSM which came in during mid-1960 and gave them new powers

to PREDICT and CALL elections -- PREDICT and CALL ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES --

and we saw that power REVERSED in 2000 when Fox/Jon Ellis RECALLED Florida

taking it back from Gore.

Two journalists in Florida began to investigate computer voting in Florida when they began

to see elections results that were unlikely and unverifiable.

If you're interested, their book can be read here -- and is available here and there for $3



Votescam -- The Stealing of America

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

[defendandprotect]

83. What you're saying is Goebbels was right ... rightwing propaganda still works ...

look back on the last twenty years of if ... from "Welfare Queens" to

Terry Shaivo -- from Christian Coalition crap -- by the way start up funding for

the Christian Coalition was given by the GOP! And, Richard Scaife financed Dobson's

group -- and other rw wealthy financed Bauer's org.

From GOP's "Pro-life" murderers --

to GOP radicalizing the NRA and using it to target not only liberals in the Dem Party

but liberals and moderates in the Repug Party moving Congress to the right.

Meanwhile, Koch Bros. funded the DLC --

and we now have Koch Funding the T-baggers --

It's all a Hollywood sounds stage we need to knock over --


Propaganda has always worked -- but especially when there is no reply from the opposition!!

Think about that part of it. Corporate money buys a lot of silence.


On the other hand, never heard that rw propaganda could totally brainwash anyone!!


:evilgrin:




The third issue is the economy -- and the public knows that Obama has appointed those

responsible for the financial coup as his team --

First appointment went to DLC/Rahm -- Koch Bros. having funded the DLC!!

Public knows not enough has been done to stimulate the economy -- rather Obama has worked

two new trade agreements begun by Bush -- Korea and Colombia --

The economists told Obama that the stimulus he was asking for was only 20% of what was

needed -- and Obama actually settled for even less!!

The public knows what's going down when extension of tax cuts for the rich are agreed to

by Obama -- They know!

[Enthusiast]

194. They can tell the electorate

we need to lower taxes and get government off the back of business. :rofl:

[blue_onyx]

50. If the economy gets worse...

anything is possible. When one is suffering, they don't necessarily think or vote logically. I would be shocked if Palin actually ran so I'm not worried about her becoming president. Whoever the GOP does nominate, however, should be taken seriously.

[defendandprotect]

142. +1000% --- but they better be sure whatever they do moves them to the LEFT ...!!

[Bucky]

51. I hate to agree with this. I kinda don't. But to be honest, Dems are pretty complascent right now

The Republicans mostly seem like stooges at this point. But unemployment is ridiculously high and people are quite fed up with a do-nothing government. Perverse as it sounds, as I blame the Republicans for most of the donothingness, the electorate could end up blaming the Democrats for this. Things are flowing our way right now, but I don't know if the public is going to sustain that mood for another year and a half. Republicans are and have always been much better at marketing ideas than Democrats. It's something to get serious about.

[JI7]

53. i wonder if he is trying to get republicans to nominate her

[Iggo]

57. delete...

...i'm over it.

sorry.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

59. my life long Repub summertime neighbors from Texas ALL voted for Obama because of Palin the entire

Jump clan and they are a HUGE clan.

[FarLeftFist]

64. THE DEBATES!

Never could she win. I promise she won't win. It will be an Obama landslide. GUARANTEED!

[pstokely]

134. You don't need to win the debates, you just need to look good in them

nt

[defendandprotect]

144. Debates run by a private corporation which the two parties set up !! Who watches?

[harmonicon]

198. If she's the nominee, there will be no debates. nt.

[underpants]

67. chum

Just drawing it in

[lib2DaBone]

70. Sarah Palin appeals to the American Idol crowd....

.. she is also big with Jerry Springer voters. Jerry....Jerry....Jerry....

Never underestimate the stupidity of the low-information Fox News Voters.

[pstokely]

135. They thought the Chimp had a real ranch

nt

[florida08]

71. the only thing I see she has going for her

is name recognition which among republican voters is huge. Most people don't follow politics the way we do here. She also has the support of the teabaggers which has the support of the Koch boys. Lots of ads making her look good. Isn't the reason why people voted for Bush was they felt like he was the kind of guy you could have a beer with? Silly I know but they see her in the same light. She's folksy,fairly easy to look at and a mama grizzly.
That's how a lot of Americans vote..to our own demise.

Dean's just saying it ain't over till it is. Never assume.

[jaysunb]

75. Gov Dean is wrong here....

IF that's what he said. Good pep talk though, it's definitly needed.

[craigmatic]

81. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's likely.

[Arkana]

101. It's also possible that I might be struck by lightning while simultaneously winning the lottery.

That's roughly how much chance Sarah Palin has of waging a successful national campaign.

Is it possible? Yes. Is it even remotely probable? Hell no.

[calimary]

84. Dr. Dean speaks the truth again. I think we ignore this at our peril.

NEVER let your guard down!!!! NEVER take our situation now for granted. And PLEASE - NEVER underestimate the gullibility and thick-headedness of the American electorate.

We STILL have to fight like there's no tomorrow for Obama. Take NOTHING for granted!!!!! DO NOT ASSUME that he has this in the bag. Especially with her around. DO NOT take her for granted, regardless how big a dipshit you think (correctly so) that she is.

They laughed and sneered at his "50 State Strategy" going into 2006 and 2008. He whupped their asses both years. I think we ignore Howard Dean's warnings at our peril.

[EFerrari]

108. I laughed when they ran Junior. Never again. n/t

[RayOfHope]

111. I COMPLETELY agree. I met three women last year. Some very smart, capable,

and level headed women.

I found out not too long ago that they all support Palin. You could have knocked me over with a feather.

Where I am from, if you are GOP is synonymous with Palin supporter, plain and simple.

[jaxx]

86. This is like reading a 3 ring circus.

In ring one we have the Dems will stay homes.
In ring two we have the primary hims.
In ring three we have the disenchanted tepids.

Howard Dean look what you brought out to the circus. :rofl:

[Shining Jack]

87. Weird enough to be true. n/t

[secondwind]

88. The powers that be in the GOP will NEVER fund this woman. Plus, she will never run.

[dballance]

90. Boy, That's a Scary Thought

Madame President Palin. Yikes.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JJW]

91. Would there be any difference in policies between them?

Both of them are right of Reagan. Obama simply refuses to fight the Republicans so really at the end of the day, would there be any difference?

[SleeplessinSoCal]

93. Funny that....

he said: "Dean said he doesn’t think Palin will win the GOP nomination or would have the advantage over Obama in 2012. But he warned it is dangerous for Democrats to dismiss her."

Who can dismiss her? She can't be dismissed. Not gonna happen. She'll be in our face until she's had her first botched facelift.

[Taverner]

94. DNC, DLC, All Democrats, take heed. Dean is not a gladhander.

He will not tell you things to make you feel good.

He will not tell you things to flatter you.

He will tell you the truth - and if he sees a threat, you better believe it is very real.

Please, listen to the good Doctor.

Of my friends who are doctors, they have told me the first big thing you learn in med school is to anticipate things that may not be a problem now. A pinch of prevention is a pound of cure.

[Arkana]

99. Dean's trolling Palin.

The only way she beats Obama is if he accidentally launches every single one of our nukes into downtown NYC or gets caught in a dead girl/live boy scenario.

She is the absolute weakest candidate in the field and her negatives are in the fucking STRATOSPHERE, even among Republicans. When your negatives are this high a year and a half before the election, you are out before you get in.

To all the people going WELL RONALD REAGAN: Reagan did it before cable news and the Internet. Information traveled slowly and only through a few mediums. His sloganeering worked better than it would now. You can't tell me that a few videos of him acting like an Alzheimer's patient on YouTube wouldn't have knocked him out of any race early.

To all the people going WELL SCOTT BROWN: Obama is not Martha Coakley. He knows the stakes in 2012. The man is nothing if not prepared for a brutal campaign.

You people are so used to jumping at every little sound that it has left you paranoid. Howard Dean is most likely trolling Sarah Palin. If he honestly thinks this, he is dead fucking wrong--and it's OK to accuse the wonderful, infallible Dr. Howard Dean of being a less-than-stellar political analyst.

[Taverner]

105. Regardless of Reagan and Brown; Bush I, Bush II, Nixon, Thatcher and Peron

All legally elected

Did a lot of damage

My deepest hope is that Palin is a grifter, not an Apocalypse bringer

But shit has happened before. Reagan had been Governor before. Brown? You're right, Obama is no Coakley.

BUT - Bush II, a man who had a record of failure, not just in government but EVERYTHING. Only scion in Texas who couldn't find oil. Simpleton, at his core. I don't think for a minute it was an act. You can't fake stupid that well.

As for his father, he was a blank slate as well - you only knew about him what the CIA wanted you to know about him.

Both of these men beat the smarter, stronger, seemingly ascendant Democrat.

Clinton beat Bush I by being the devil you know instead of the devil you don't.

And with Thatcher, in the UK, this was like electing Cruella DeVille quite literally, to run the country. Granted, unions detente with industry turned out bad for all. But electing the Parliamentarian who would be most likely to strangle you with piano wire in the middle of the night seemed crazy.

Juan Peron - cult of personality despite a record of failure. Argentina, the 1st world country in the middle of 3rd world South America dropped alongside her other nations to the 3rd world. Argentina never did recover from Peron. Think of him like Perot, if he was elected younger (and stupider.)

So never underestimate the crazy or the stupid

[sendero]

110. You are dead wrong.

... the people in power get punished when the economy is bad. Obama has had 3 years and he's accomplished NOTHING. If you don't think the American people will send him a "message" by telling him to FUCK OFF you are not a student of American politics at all.

It happened in 2010 and it will happen again. Your cocky attitude will do NOTHING to change how Americans vote, and frankly I agree will agree with them, OBAMA has DONE NOTHING to solve the problems the American middle class and poor face.

[Arkana]

179. "Nothing"?

http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/

Way to fucking lie through your teeth.

[AngryOldDem]

100. Anything is possible.

Dean is spot on about the economy. If it truly goes to hell in the next 12 to 16 months, Obama could really be in trouble. Palin with her incendiary rhetoric would be just the thing to galvanize and focus all the anger that will be out there.

Again -- I'm taking nothing for granted in this election.

[SoapBox]

107. Yup!

...and a BIG yup! to several other posts.

To morph the article a bit...do I think that she will be running or the final candidate? Ummmm...no.

BUT, BUT, BUT she is (or maybe already has) positioning herself to call shots...and she WILL CALL SHOTS.

She has a following of Haters and Crazies (plus other assorted perverts that think that she's hot...ick!) that will act on her every command.

Do NOT underestimate her and do NOT take her lightly.

The Thugs and their ilk seem to get the majority of MSM air time...Many of us are relegated to some websites, SOME of MSNBC programming and a couple of radio stations (are there even 2 that are for Progressives?)

Dems/Libs/Progressives canNOT sit at home and not vote, based on some kind of spineless-bleeding-heart-whiny CRAP. EVERYONE must vote and work to get other Dems/Libs/Progressives to vote.

The alternative will be a Thug controlled Congress AND a Thug/T.Hater in the WH.

[senseandsensibility]

102. For those of you saying the debates would matter

they wouldn't. Nothing would matter if the corporate media wanted Palin in. We've been through this before, remember? Although Kerry trounced chimp, the corporate media soon had the debates spun in the chimp's favor.

[NYC_SKP]

103. He's right. The same powers that got him OUT could get her IN.

Evil powers that be, complicit media, and gullible voters.

And that's all I'm gonna say about the subject.

[RantinRavin]

106. Just remember this

Think about the average IQ of American voters, then realize 1/2 of them are dumber than that!

[RayOfHope]

114. If she ends up getting the nomination, I think many GOP will hold their nose and vote for her n/t

[pnorman]

115. That's along the lines of Menken's estimate of the American voter.

If I thought that way, I wouldn't be wasting my time here on DU. We're going to continue to have a "sluggish economy" until the Roadblock Republicans are sent home to "spend more quality time with their families". It's that simple.

I'm more concerned about "sluggish progressive voters" pissing and moaning but sitting on their hands like in last November!

[still_one]

121. Now if only the republicans believe that...

[young_at_heart]

122. Bush had a transmitter and no one cared

Everyone knew he was being coached and absolutely nothing happened. Palin could do the same.

[SoapBox]

123. And this, right here on DU...

"Brits are making fun of Sarah Palin. But, my German ex-hubby's family isn't laughing."

A tidbit of this journal post:

"Don't underestimate this she-snake. Almost every post I read has DU'ers poking fun at her chances. Her screechy voice that sounds like zombie claws raking on chalkboard. Her refusal to be pinned down for interviews. Hey, don't laugh..."

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Rozlee/21

[Blue_In_AK]

124. It's a scary thought,

but you should never underestimate Sarah Palin and her ambition. She's stupid, but she's a force to be reckoned with.

[Dawson Leery]

125. You ALWAYS take your opponent seriously.

People are highly impatient and Palin appeals to those who want very easy answers to very difficult questions.

[jimlup]

126. The Economy is going to make it hard for Obama to hold against anyone...

The people would elect a dead duck as long as it could claim independence from the economic downturn. They really don't know any better sorry to say.

[harvey007]

127. It could happen

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147806/Romney-Palin-Lead-Reduced-GOP-Field-2012.aspx

[SoapBox]

129. That's just creepy.

...and nothing would surprise me in this Dumb-and-Dumber country of ours.

Can you just imagine the flip-flopping between the two of them? Hell, that's the nice way to put it...they would just plain old LIE.

[Bryn]

130. Howard Dean is being clever!

There's no way Palin will even win in primaries. But then I can't underestimate stupidity of people. Look at Criminal Rick Scott in Florida as Governor doing great damages to my home state. Ugh! So I am stranded in Arkansas until he's gone.

American has gone to the slimes.

[cbdo2007]

131. Wow, he is really not very smart.

I know this is just to get people riled up and talking but it also hurts people's credibility to make such bold, ignorant statements.

[Bluebear]

151. Dr. Dean, anonyomous poster cbdo2007, hmm, I'll go with the Doctor's intellect.

[cbdo2007]

224. Guess we'll find out in 2012....

but for some reason I'm guessing you won't be seeking me out to apologize.

[Bluebear]

226. After calling Dr. Dean stupid? No, I wouldn't be apologizing to you.

[deacon]

136. Sober up Howard. n/t

[Duppers]

137. I'll be leaving the country if it happens.

for good.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

138. Nobody thought Ronald Reagan or George W. Bush could win, either

The Dems could be in for a nasty surprise if they don't DO SOMETHING that will have an immediate effect on ordinary people. People are scared, angry, and not too well-informed. The timid "reforms" that the Obama administration has made have not trickled down to the average person.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

150. We are Dems! WE have to do something. Stop waiting for somebody else.

[penndragon69]

139. It could be a very bitter campaign,

If that psycho bitch palin and her fundi minions are the choice of the republiCONS.
You know they will use every disgusting trick they can dredge up in order to make palin look sane.
If the bitch won, America would be plunged into a dark and evil christian police state.
Can you say " SATAN !"
She IS, the ANTI-CHRIST.

[nevergiveup]

140. Dean is using reverse psychology

Palin is obviously the weakest of all candidates against Obama. Dean knows this so he makes the statement that she could beat Obama. It will have major news coverage tomorrow. Many Republicans are stupid enough to fall for it. Way to go, Howard.

[efhmc]

147. Agreed.

[jonthebru]

146. No one actually knows what will happen,

But there are good reasons that no strong candidates have come forward in the fascist repugthug parties primary. The smart folks know that the President will be very hard to beat. Of course anything can happen but if the Democratic Party does the right thing and mobilizes the grassroots then President Obama will be re-elected.
I know this site, for which I have a lot of respect, has many members who are unhappy with how the President is doing. But none of that should matter in the big picture. A right wing candidate who is part of a conspiracy to convert our government into a theocracy is a very real and dangerous thing. That fact alone should get everyone of us out into the streets to insure a Democrat stays in the White House.
Our lives and the lives of our children have taken a very strong detour towards a very different financial and cultural future. It seems the so-called "social safety net" that has been developed is simply and quickly being dismantled; destroyed if you will. For our children the future is probably going to be one of self sufficiency through their entire life. For us, it will be different because the planning time is much shorter.
I am truly flummoxed about why the right and their ilk are intent on destroying the middle class. I have stated in the past that middle class workers with their good wages and decent, secure lifestyle has fueled the economy for many years. All those cases of beer, snow mobiles, boats, nice vehicles and comfortable homes have made the rich very wealthy through the years. Why they would destroy this culture and economic engine is beyond my comprehension. The religious right will go along with this treasonous action because they know that people go back to religion when times are tough so they will gain parishioners, souls and of course tithes and political power.
The rights goal has been stated openly many times, not unlike how al-Qaeda openly stated their intentions as I see it. They run for office, get elected and then proceed to destroy the government from within, which they are doing. And many fairly smart people support their actions and fall for the political lies. If the middle class actually voted for their own best intentions the USA would be a very different place. People who should know better are easily fooled by political advertising and spin, it is frickin' amazing.
John Boehner has openly said that the republican goal is to stop our President from succeeding at anything in order to defeat him in the next election. That statement alone should motivate all of us.
Have a great night, Aloha...

[primavera]

148. Man, and I thought I was cynical

Even I don't think there are enough Americans who are that stupid to give Palin a serious shot at the Oval Office.

[Major Hogwash]

152. "And someday, a monkey will fly out of my ass."

A sober, slightly embarassed Howard Dean admitted today that he had been sitting at the bar a little too long the day before when he gave an interview to The Hill.

"Maybe I should have told the waitress to hold the vodka, instead of the ice." chimed Dean, "I didn't realize that 4 hours could go by so fast as I waiting to do the interview. That last comment about the monkey was totally uncalled for. I don't know what possessed me to ever say something like that. I must have been thinking of Romney."

[Eugenian]

156. If someone as blatantly incompetant as the Shrub could become president,

then so could Sarah Palin.

[JoeyT]

157. I isn't too hard to imagine it happening.

Unemployment isn't going to be this high for this long while prices steadily rise without the public punishing *somebody* for it.
Doesn't really matter if that person is the one that actually caused it, someone is going to suffer.

[No Elephants]

160. No matter what, you run as though you are running against General George Washington, himself.

The worst thing would be to lose with stuff--donations, effort, smarts, whatever--still left on the table.

[John_Adams]

162. I don't know about that--she has some pretty high negatives.

Then again, she looks good on TV.

[DFW]

163. This is like a warning to us all

Act like it's a lock, and you'll get badly bitten.

Obviously, the chances of her being nominated are next to nothing, and the chances of her being elected, once nominated,
are even less. What Howard is saying is not to think that a horrible Republican candidate will automatically lose (see
Reagan, Bush Lite) if we sit back and gloat.

Of course it PROBABLY won't happen. But we have to stay awake so that it DEFINITELY won't happen. That goes double for
Obama and is campaign team.

[obxhead]

166. Unrec for more bullshit fear mongering.

Even from Dean. A sea monkey would be able to destroy palin in any and every debate.

[Bandit]

167. It's way too late for Obama to do anything about the economy.

He had his chance and decided to let Republicans dictate what needed to be done.. We know what happenes when Republicans dictate economic policy.. Economic collapse, certainly not recovery. Republicans do not want a Recovery unless they get the credit. They certainly do not want it to look like a black man could do a better job than they can...It was a perfect Republican trap that Obama stepped into quite willingly..

[Faygo Kid]

175. +1

Alan Simpson on the Cat Food Commission confirmed everything you say here.

[Corruption Winz]

168. And then Sarah Palin is going to go into the White House....

and into the oval office and chop that mothafuckin' desk in half, like..... PWAAAAHHHH!

I doubt she has even a remote chance of winning any election. She's not as popular as people think. Her show didn't last. She made her name in a state with about 6 people and most people on both sides think of her as an idiot.

Ain't happenin', Deano.

[Jakes Progress]

170. K&R Sometimes it seems DU stands for Denial Underground

You can rah rah all you want, but in the last election:

- we had just had 8 years of the worst president in history.

- the republicans ran the two worst possible candidates. They actually had to go to extremes to dig up palin.

- the economy was bad, but it is worse. If voters actually voted based on who wrecks their lives, no republican would ever be in office.

- Obama was "new and fresh and hot". Now the republicans have had a few years to use their neocon media world to slather him with all kinds of stuff.

- all of his victories look like republican wins. They have blocked any substantial changes.

That's it. Oh. I forgot. Jobs. Jobs. Jobs. The country is not working. The people aren't working. We had recession and all we go was healthy banks and corporate profits. Fix it or forget a second term. Start by firing economic team.

[Faygo Kid]

174. She's not running. It's all about the $$$. Lawrence O'Donnell nailed this.

She's not running. Period. Forget about it. She's all about the bucks and celebrity. She will continue at Fox News with her pet, Greta, kissing her ass. Get real here.

[RepublicanElephant]

190. YEP.....

just like he called-out "the donald's" fake campaign.

[Rex]

176. Oh bullshit, Sarah will never win - GWB ruined all future elections

for non-thinking GOP tools.

[Hubert Flottz]

177. Scary fucking thought.

Worse than Bush even.

[jillan]

180. With Citizens United, yes she can. Anyone of those clowns could win.

[Enthusiast]

182. No

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3ylEWYOI38

[BrklynLiberal]

183. I hope that is Dean ploy to get the repukes to nominate her so they can go down in flames.

[russspeakeasy]

186. Big oil and big banks will decide who is nominated and who will win.

[Politicub]

195. Dean is right - as always... and for dems who are waffling on Obama, I say

get the fuck out of my way, because I don't have the time or inclination to give a rats ass about you.

The 2012 election is deadly serious, and if some people on DU can't see how nasty and brutish our country would be under a democratic vs. GOP administration, there is no hope for convincing them.

Obama is a fantastic president, and has done a good job based on the cards he was dealt. There has been no better president for the gay community based on Obama's record. I'm unequivocally behind him for 2012. Everything else is just noise at this point.

Every vote matters. Nothing can be taken for granted, and the time for navel gazing has long passed.

[RKP5637]

200. This nation could do far far far worse than Obama and IMO the republicans are

ready to give us that dystopian future. I agree with you soooooooo much, "The 2012 election is deadly serious." IMO as an incumbent, Obama is far more electable in 2012 than a new face.

I could make a list of things I would like in a president, I wish Obama were more to the left and very progressive, I wish we did not reward the banksters and wall street so much, I wish all wars were ended, I wish the MIC did not get so much funding, etc., things like that, but the reality of the situation is there are some real sociopaths out there that would love to see a R majority all the way.

I think these are very dangerous times and frankly I fear more from the RW and religious nuts in this country than I fear from outside of the country.

I watched Palin this morning. We on DU might think she's nuts, but IMO she feeds a lot of people in this country what they want to hear, that line of dribble she pushes all of the time. As we always say, never underestimate the ability of the American people to vote in the wrong people for the wrong reasons. Many Americans vote with emotions and their brains disengaged IMO.

[OmahaBlueDog]

197. People thought Bill Clinton couldn't win

Sure, George HW Bush had a major recession on his hands, but he won the Gulf War, right? Clinton was a pot smoking, draft dodging, adulterer -- Americans aren't going to vote for him, right?

Palin is popular with the gun crowd, and popular with the fundies. These are two factions of the GOP that really dislike Mitt Romney.

Palin will run. She will announce Newt Gingrich as her veep. She will take over his fledgling ground game in Iowa and NH. The opening salvo will be that Palin will win South Carolina, Romney will win NH, and ....well who wins the Iowa Caucuses??

I'm unsure, but my guess is that whoever does will go on to become the GOP nominee.

[nichomachus]

199. Of course she could

This doesn't say as much about Obama as it does about what the GOP and the bankers have done to the country.

The country -- at all levels of government -- is broke. Unemployment is above 20 percent. People are scared, frustrated, angry, confused. Many have lost jobs and homes. They don't see anything happening in Washington that makes them feel any better.

These are the perfect conditions for someone like Palin to win as the "plain-folks" outsider who is going to shape things up and shake things up. In frightening and uncertain times, demagogues can come to power quite easily. This is how Hitler came to power. He was a joke to a lot of people, but pretty soon he was in charge.

[RKP5637]

202. And she comes loaded with religion, and in desperate times many

people turn to religion. She presents a combination of pretty to some people, fresh to some, innovative to some, as you said, a "plain-folks outsider who is going to shape things up and shake things up."

And some people might vote for her just for the hell of it, because they don't see their lives going anyplace anyway.

If the fundies embrace her many might vote for her just because the leader of their respective flock told them too. I see the atmosphere of this country as similar to Germany, WWII. As you said, "He was a joke to a lot of people, but pretty soon he was in charge."

And who knows how wacky this place could get. Much as in David Bowie's song, "I'm afraid of Americans."

[LynneSin]

203. If a republican wins in 2012 it's because of all these governors setting up the voting system

so it can be stolen.

[wundermaus]

206. I'm voting for Palin in 2012

The sooner the Moosalini Party is officially in power, the sooner the hanging!

[bobburgster]

211. She stands a chance only, and I mean only.....

if the economy does not start a serious turn around. By that I mean more jobs, and a drop in unemployment.

[DesertFlower]

214. i doubt she would even get the nomination.

[center rising]

215. Sarah Palin sucks

I doubt she could win a vote for class president, let alone the presidency of the US.

[Dawgs]

217. How is this post not getting 200+ recs? n/t

[man4allcats]

218. America is ancient Rome and the Third Reich redux.

In 2000, Bush was appointed president. The question is not if we will get another fascist half-wit in the Oval Office but rather when. In Palin's case, if she campaigns in a bikini she might actually win and so not need the supremes to steal it for her.

[DancingFool]

219. Why would anyone care what Dean has to say?

Wasn't he fired by Obama? Who cares what he says?

:sarcasm:

[japple]

220. I think he's just thinking that we might have become too complacent.

n/t

[progressoid]

221. In other words, "it's the economy, stupid."