Ex-Honduran president Zelaya returns from exile

[cal04]

Source: Reuters

Former president Manuel Zelaya returned to Honduras on Saturday after being exiled by the army two years ago in a coup, clearing the way for the nation to normalise relations with its neighbours in the Americas.

The Honduran army, acting on a court order with backing from Congress, whisked the left-leaning Zelaya out of the country in June 2009 after he pushed a referendum seen by the opposition as an attempt to extend his term as president.

Thousands cheering and waving flags greeted Zelaya as he stepped off the plane in Tegucigalpa in stifling heat. Zelaya, who the constitution bars from running for office again, had been living mostly in the Dominican Republic since his exile.

The expulsion of Zelaya in 2009 was condemned around the world as an anti-democratic flashback to the region's Cold War era past of dictators, coups and military rule.



Read more: http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE74R27H20110528

---

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13586991

[Judi Lynn]

1. Former Honduras president returns home

Former Honduras president returns home

Manuel Zelaya returns from exile, paving the way for the Honduras to re-enter the world community.
Last Modified: 28 May 2011 21:26

Former President of Honduras Manuel Zelaya has returned from exile, ending a nearly two-year political crisis caused by his ouster in a military-backed coup that led to Honduras' international isolation.

Zelaya's flight from neighbouring Nicaragua landed at Tegucigalpa's international airport on Saturday, where thousands of his supporters had set up a tent camp nearby, dancing and singing to celebrate his arrival, the Associated Press reported.

Zelaya was accompanied by his wife Xiomara Castro, two of his daughters, several former officials in his government and the foreign ministers of Venezuela and Bolivia, the AP said.

His comeback paves the way for Honduras to re-enter the world community, which near-unanimously rejected the June 2009 coup that saw him whisked out of the Central American country at gunpoint in his pyjamas.

More:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2011/05/2011528205926663920.html

~~~~~
Zelaya Back in Honduras, Paving Way for Nation’s OAS Return
By Charlie Devereux and Jonathan J. Levin - May 28, 2011 5:09 PM CT

Manuel Zelaya, whose ouster as president almost two years ago led to Honduras’s expulsion from the Organization of American States, returned home from exile today in a move that may allow for the country’s reinstatement into the regional group.

Zelaya arrived at Tegucigalpa’s international airport from Managua, Nicaragua, in a plane belonging to Venezuelan state-run airline Conviasa. He was accompanied by his family and a delegation of international allies, including former Panamanian President Martin Torrijos and Venezuela Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro.

“Thanks to your efforts I’ve been able to return to my land,” he told a crowd who had come to the airport to welcome him. Many were dressed in red in a show of solidarity with Zelaya’s National Popular Resistance Front, a coalition that advocated for his return. “Your presence here this afternoon, and international support, shows that blood was not spilt in vain.”

Honduran President Porfirio Lobo signed an agreement May 22 with Zelaya, allowing him to return from exile and help change the country’s laws. The agreement, brokered with the help of Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, also guarantees that Zelaya supporters can return safely to Honduras and form a party to participate in elections.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-28/zelaya-back-in-honduras-paving-way-for-nation-s-oas-return-2-.html

~~~~~
Triumphal return of Honduran ex-leader Zelaya
By Francisco Jara (AFP) – 1 hour ago

TEGUCIGALPA — Former president Manuel Zelaya made a triumphal return Saturday as tens of thousands of people cheered and wave banners to welcome him home nearly two years after his ouster from power in a coup.

Zelaya, wearing his trademark cowboy hat, landed in Tegucigalpa with his wife and aides aboard a Venezuelan passenger plane on a flight from Managua, where he spent the night.

In an interview broadcast from Managua by Telesur television network, Zelaya hailed his return from exile as "the result of an effort of all the countries of Latin America."

"Today we begin the true reconciliation in Honduras," Zelaya's wife Xiomara Castro said, adding that they were committed "to continue the struggle to transform" the country.

More:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iO7ougk8kBWWafVmRKI4Bb86v3Rw?docId=CNG.86cef52d30e13b28b2d80598a38bfa1d.d21

[Judi Lynn]

2. Thousands greet ousted Honduran president upon return

Thousands greet ousted Honduran president upon return
May 28, 2011, 21:37 GMT

Tegucigalpa - Ousted president Manuel Zelaya returned Saturday to Honduras, where he was welcomed by thousands of supporters.

Ousted on June 28, 2009, Zelaya flew in from neighbouring Nicaragua after an exile of more than a year in the Dominican Republic.

His arrival was delayed by about three hours.

Several of the supporters who had gathered to greet him fainted in the heat, according to Honduran media. No further incidents were reported, and the crowd cheered as the plane landed.

More:
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/americas/news/article_1642142.php/Thousands-greet-ousted-Honduran-president-upon-return

[Peace Patriot]

3. My, my, my, the simple joy of reading this headline has struck me deeply!

Two songs popped into my head...

Paul McCartney's and John Lennon's "The Long and Winding Road," and...

"Todo Cambio" ("Everything Changes"), the song that Hugo Chavez and Fernando Lugo sang together on stage at Lugo's inauguration party in Paraguay.

:grouphug:

[joshcryer]

6. Why so struck by a US puppet?

Have you not read the wikileaks on Zelaya?

[harmonicon]

9. A US puppet overthrown by a US-backed coup? nt.

[joshcryer]

12. US didn't back it and the US protected him and even denounced it.

It wasn't a coup.

[harmonicon]

17. That's some incredible revisionist history.

I don't even know what to say about that. Where would I begin?

[Judi Lynn]

20. Truly! Someone is desperate. n/t

[harmonicon]

21. .... and now he's given up.

I see a few responses here where he's just abandoned any attempt to justify earlier statements.

[Judi Lynn]

22. That happens when they realize there are enough people around who know the truth.

It's easier when they're trying to persuade people who are complete idiots to buy their load. They always are taking their chances that at any given moment, not everyone seeing their posts has the time to drop everything and start looking for the links to set the picture straight again, as it has been done here so many times already.

Most D.U.'ers got the message long ago on this farce.

Posted: August 10, 2009 12:09 PM
Honduran Coup Decree Shows Coup "Justification" Was After the Fact

~snip~
Posted: August 10, 2009 12:09 PM
Honduran Coup Decree Shows Coup "Justification" Was After the Fact

Supporters in the U.S. of the coup in Honduras have frequently made two claims to justify it which are demonstrably false, which have nonetheless been widely accepted in the U.S., because they have been largely unchallenged in the U.S. media: the Honduran Congress authorized Zelaya's removal, and the basis for that removal was Article 239 of the Honduran Constitution, which forbids someone from being President if he has already been President, and says that anyone who advocates changing this provision will cease to be President.

The actual decree of the Honduran Congress is attached. Note the following.

1) the document never mentions Article 239.

2) the document is dated "MIERCOLES 1 DE JULIO DEL 2009," i.e. Wednesday, July 1, 2009, three days after the coup on Sunday, June 28.

So: 1) the decree of the Honduran Congress, which is being cited as justification for it, was produced when the coup was already three days old, and 2) this decree never mentioned Article 239.

Note that President Zelaya didn't advocate the extension of his term, contrary to the claim that is often made in the U.S. He proposed a nonbinding referendum on whether there should be a constitutional convention, a longstanding demand of social movements in Honduras. Even had the nonbinding referendum been successful, there is no plausible scenario in which it would have led to a change in this provision of the constitution prior to the scheduled November election in which Zelaya was to be replaced and in which he was not a candidate. At most it could have resulted in a binding referendum for a constitutional referendum on the same November ballot on which Zelaya would have been replaced. So the claim that President Zelaya was "trying to extend his term" is not only false, but logically impossible.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/honduran-coup-decree-show_b_255600.html

~~~~~

Honduras: Lawyers Question Basis of Zelaya Ouster
Written by Jennifer Moore
Friday, 25 September 2009 06:26

~snip~
a preliminary report by an international delegation of lawyers that visited Honduras in late August affirms that a military coup is what took place. The report considers the lack of an independent judiciary in Honduras as part of the context in which this occurred and points to powerful economic and political groups opposed to social advances promoted by President Zelaya as the driving force behind the coup.

The report, drafted by members of the American Association of Jurists, the National Lawyers Guild, the International Association of Democratic Lawyers and the International Association Against Torture, further states that the military overthrow was a clear violation of Honduras' 1982 Political Constitution. Among various constitutional articles that the report claims were violated includes Article 102, which states: "No Honduran may be expatriated nor delivered by the authorities to a foreign state." <1>

~snip~
According to the report, the opinion poll was a "determining factor" in the coup. They explain that "powerful economic and political sectors including those who control the Honduran media vehemently opposed the move and recurred to the courts and the legislature to put in motion a very accelerated lawsuit, lacking assurances of due process in order to justify actions without grounds against President Zelaya, who they intended to try." Other reforms Zelaya was enacting which enraged to the business class included the rise in the minimum wage, the exclusion of intermediaries from state fuels purchases and the decision to purchase oil from the cheapest provider - the Venezuelan oil company Petrocaribe.

~snip~
Concerns over weaknesses in Honduras' judiciary have been raised before. The Inter American Human Rights Commission has criticized the country for lack of an independent and efficient judiciary, notes another member of the delegation. Furthermore, a report from Freedom House states, "The judicial branch of government in Honduras is subject to intervention and influence by both the elected branches and wealthy private interests." <4> The US State Department profile of Honduras also mentions that "Although the constitution and law provide for an independent judiciary, the judicial system was poorly funded and staffed, inadequately equipped, often ineffective, and subject to patronage, corruption, and political influence." <5>

More:
http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/2132/1/

~~~~~

Honduras' PR Coup
Submitted by Brendan Fischer on December 20, 2010 - 9:03pm

~snip~
Wikileaks recently published documents suggesting that PR spin helped determine the final outcome of the June 2009 Honduran coup. At the same time that a July 2009 diplomatic cable from the U.S. Ambassador in Honduras to top government officials confirmed that the Honduran president’s removal was illegal, professional lobbyists and political communicators were beginning a PR blitz, eventually managing to manipulate America into believing the coup was a constitutional act.

~snip~
Zelaya was no angel, and an earlier Ambassador described him as a “rebellious teen” in a different cable released by Wikileaks. Zelaya had pushed the limits of his power by requesting a non-binding referendum (essentially an opinion poll) about whether there should be a second, binding referendum to convoke a constituent assembly that would rewrite the Constitution (many believed Zelaya’s goal was to revise the Constitution’s one-term requirement so he could make a second presidential run). The Honduran Constitution can only be amended through a two-thirds vote of Congress in two consecutive sessions, so had the assembly actually been invoked, its proposed constitutional changes would have been invalid. Zelaya pushed forward with the referendum after the opposition-controlled Congress passed a law prohibiting it and two lower courts had ordered him to suspend his efforts. When the head of the military refused to carry out the poll, the president dismissed him, and refused a subsequent Supreme Court order to reinstate the General. That refusal led the Court to order his arrest; in carrying out the arrest, the military pulled him from bed at gunpoint and sent him out of the country.

Whether this conduct and arrest order justified forcible removal by the military was another matter. Both the Supreme Court and Congress were dominated by Zelaya opponents who were disturbed about the president's leftward shift, and with Zelaya opponent Roberto Micheletti in line to succeed the president, the judicial and legislative branches had clear incentives to favor Zelaya's removal. Congress’ after-the-fact resolution supporting the coup had the effect of ascending Micheletti to the presidency, clearly benefiting party interests.

The Embassy Deemed the Coup Illegal, but the Obama Administration Hesitated
With the methods and motives of Honduran political actors in question, the U.S. was correct to tread cautiously. By July 24, though, the U.S. government was informed by the American embassy in Honduras that “there is no doubt” that the events of June 28 “constituted an illegal and unconstitutional coup.” The Ambassador sent top U.S. officials a cable titled “Open and Shut: The Case of the Honduran Coup” on July 24 that analyzed and dismissed each of the constitutional and legal arguments made by coup supporters. The cable notes that Zelaya never actually modified the Constitution to allow presidential reelection, and many other Honduran officials, including presidents, had proposed presidential reelection without being deemed illegitimate and removed from office. The Embassy's legal analysis states that the Constitution does not clearly delineate impeachment procedures, but "confirms that the removal of the president is a judicial matter" where the Attorney General files charges with the Supreme Court, the Court indicts the accused president, and a full, transparent trial takes place. Congress' after-the-fact resolution "disapproving" of Zelaya also did not make the removal Constitutional. While acknowledging that there may be a prima facie case against Zelaya, the cable notes “there was never any formal, public weighing of the evidence nor any semblance of due process” as required by the Honduran Constitution. Because an alleged Constitutional violation was the purported basis for Zelaya’s removal, it is necessary that opponents follow the Constitution’s removal procedures and due process requirements—a Constitutional wrong is not made right by committing another Constitutional wrong. “No matter what the merits of the case against Zelaya,” the cable says, “his forced removal by the military was clearly illegal, and Micheletti's ascendance as ‘interim president’ was totally illegitimate.”

More:
http://www.prwatch.org/node/9806


~~~~~

Rerun in Honduras
Coup pretext recycled from Brazil ’64

By Mark Cook

The pretext for the Honduran coup d’état is nothing new. In a remarkable replay, bogus charges that the corporate media in the U.S. and Europe have repeated endlessly without attempting to substantiate—that Honduran president Manuel Zelaya sought to amend the country’s constitution to run for another term—are virtually identical to the sham justification for the 1964 coup against Brazilian president João Goulart.

The Brazilian coup, depicted at the time as a victory for constitutional democracy, kicked off a series of extreme right-wing military coups against democratically elected governments throughout the Southern Cone of Latin America and beyond. Brazil was turned into a base for subversion of neighboring democratic governments (National Security Archive, 6/20/02); Goulart and a previous Brazilian president, Juscelino Kubitschek, both died in 1976 in incidents that have since been attributed to the multinational assassination program Operation Condor (Folha, 1/27/08; Carta Maior, 7/17/08). Given that history, the strength and unanimity of Latin American and international condemnation of the Honduran coup—despite a worldwide media disinformation campaign against Zelaya—is hardly surprising.

On March 31, 1964, the democratic government of Brazil’s Goulart, a wealthy rancher hated by big business for having dramatically raised the minimum wage, was overthrown in a coup d’état organized by ultra-rightist elements in Brazil’s military and strongly backed by the U.S. government. For decades, U.S. officials denied involvement in the coup, but in 2004 the nongovernmental National Security Archive (3/31/04) published newly declassified documents revealing President Lyndon Johnson’s personal involvement and a massive U.S. military and CIA commitment.

~snip~
The U.S. corporate media have carefully averted their eyes from such history as that of General Alvarez—as from the role of School of the Americas graduates in the current coup. It was thanks to the School of the Americas Watch and the National Catholic Reporter (6/29/09), not the corporate media, that the public learned of ongoing U.S. training of the Honduran military, despite the Obama administration’s claim to have cut military ties. When history repeats itself, don’t look for accurate coverage from those who got it wrong the first time around.

More:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3893

~~~~~

January 14, 2011
The Known Unknowns in Honduras
Leaked cables reveal U.S. government knowledge of disastrous military coup.
By Jeremy Kryt

When is a coup not a coup? Taken altogether, the secret diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks have exposed multiple instances of deception by the U.S. State Department, in relation to foreign dignitaries, friendly nations and even U.N. Representatives. But recently leaked cables sent from the U.S. Embassy in Tegucigalpa, the Honduran capital, offer evidence that the State Department was, in at least one instance, also misleading the American people.

In June 2009, Manuel Zelaya, the democratically-elected president of Honduras, was ousted from power by a coalition of military leaders and far-right political elites, plunging the country into an economic and human rights nightmare from which it has yet to emerge. A month after the putsch, after weeks of rigorous investigation, U.S. Ambassador to Honduras Hugo Llorens cabled the State Department to say that, based on his research, the coup had been “illegal” and “unconstitutional.” The cable concluded by calling the putsch a throwback to “the way Honduran presidents were removed in the past: a bogus resignation letter and a one-way ticket to a neighboring country.” Honduran soldiers had kidnapped Zelaya in his pajamas and a “totally illegitimate” puppet government was installed.

This in turn led to mass protests across the country, followed by harsh crackdowns under martial law. According to human rights groups, scores of peaceful demonstrators, union leaders, journalists and teachers have been slain by government forces since the coup, and hundreds of others have been beaten and detained when police and soldiers attacked peaceful marches and demonstrations. (Ten journalists were murdered in 2010, making it the most dangerous country in the world for members of the press on a per capita basis.)

But the State Department chose not to tell the American people about atrocities. Instead the coup was portrayed as a murky legal situation and the Obama administration made little mention of the civil rights violations. Most important of all, say critics, the State Department never designated the takeover a “military coup,” which under U.S. law would have necessitated the cessation of all aid programs.

More:
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/6842/the_known_unknowns_in_honduras/

[joshcryer]

25. *yawn*

A non-response doesn't really deserve a reply, but I gave you one, which you can verify all on your lonesome.

[harmonicon]

42. fine. we're done.

In multiple threads I've been nothing but civil to you and actually tried to engage in discourse. I sincerely hoped that was your actual intention as well, but now I see that it never was. I'm giving up the charade.

[joshcryer]

23. Let's see, got to use a US airbase to escape justice...

...the US denounced his ouster, and the wikileaks cables put him in a good light with the US.

It's really simple. He should've been handcuffed and indicted. There's a reason he asked for amnesty before his return.

[Judi Lynn]

26. How did Manuel Zelaya escape justice by using a U.S. airbase?

By the way that airbase belongs to Honduras.

How did he USE it to escape justice? Please provide something beyond your claim.

[joshcryer]

28. Without US involvement to help him escape, he would've been arrested. The Justice Chief...

...was very pissed off that he got out of the country because it likely ruined any chances for prosecution. The US airbase (and it was a US airbase at the time, not sure if it is still) was the escaping point. If the US didn't want him why did they denounce the "coup" and then go on to not recognize the new government for months there?

[Judi Lynn]

31. Now THERE'S some revisionist history. Why the hell did the military shoot up his house,

and force him out in pajamas if he was "escaping?" Wouldn't he have wanted to get dressed, first?

EVERYONE knows the military dragged him out in the middle of the night after laying waste to his house. His own daughter, "Pichu" took media through the house pointing out the bullet holes.

They blacked out the windows of the plane in which they kidnapped him, so he wouldn't even know where he was going. Even the U.S. ambassador to Honduras, Hugo Llorens, has said it was deadly wrong and illegal for them to do that.

[joshcryer]

33. That's his account which shouldn't be believed because he's a crook and a liar.

[Judi Lynn]

35. Do you have a link for that? We really could learn from reading it. Please let us know

how we can read it, too.

You understand how important it is for us to know the truth.

[joshcryer]

38. I don't believe for one instant Zelaya supporters care about the truth.

If they did they wouldn't have thrown Honduras under the bus following HRC's lead!

[Judi Lynn]

39. Please provide your evidence Zelaya supporters threw Honduras under the bus.

We need to learn just HOW the people who voted Zelaya into office as their democratically elected President "threw Honduras under the bus" and that's something I invite you not to simply throw out there and expect us to believe.

HOW did they do that? Did they spill too much of their blood on Honduran soil when being murdered, beaten, assassinated? Did they lower the quality of life for the right-wingers by screaming too loudly while being tortured? Just how DO you get that kind of charge to throw against these innocent, non-violent people, anyway?

How on earth did HRC throw Honduras under the bus? Aren't you even dimly aware HRC has supported the side of the coup plotters, the business interests, etc.? Do you actually do any research?

Please PROVIDE A SOURCE for your charges. That's all that's needed. Let's have a look at one of these gems, why not? Looking forward to it.

[Bacchus39]

45. he was indicted I believe, they had to make a deal to drop charges

so he could return.

[JackRiddler]

57. Let's see, kidnapped by the military in his pajamas and taken to a US base on his way to exile...

sounds EXACTLY like the CIA-backed coup that it was.

(At least they didn't foment a civil war so that they could go in and bomb the place flat in the name of humanitarian intervention, like in Libya.)

[JackRiddler]

56. Bullshit. The State Department cables released by Wikileaks show US planning the coup.

The coup was set up under Bush-appointed Ambassador Ford, who went from that position to a job with Southern Command. Ford's successor, Ambassador Llorens did not back the coup, and he called it a coup. He was overruled. Obama called it a coup. Then he shut up.

Bad enough that people here support a military coup d'etat in Central America, given the history. But now this kind of confusionist defamation!

Link to the cables that show anything like your outrageous claims, bub!

In the following, Amy Goodman asks Zelaya about cables showing Llorens opposed the coup. She is surprised to hear about the US request that Honduras provide asylum for the CIA terrorist, Posada Carriles, and to hear that Obama isn't really in charge of the coup...

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/31/exclusive_interview_with_manuel_zelaya_on

MANUEL ZELAYA: (translated) Hugo Llorens cooperated in order to avoid the coup d’état. He knew everything that was happening in Honduras. And I am a witness to the effort that he made to stop the coup. But when he perceived that he could no longer stop it, then he withdrew. I don’t know if he had orders to withdraw, but he allowed everything to happen. He did help my family a great deal after the coup. And I am grateful to him now. He showed me that he is someone who believes in democracy and not in the coups d’état. But a great part of the Pentagon does not believe this, nor does the Southern Command.

SNIP

MANUEL ZELAYA: (translated) The link that Ambassador Ford, who was the ambassador from the United States before Llorens, he said that I could not have a friendship with Hugo Chávez. He wanted me to give political (asylum) to Posada Carriles. He wanted to name who my ministers of my cabinet of my government should be. He wanted his recommendations to become ministers of my government.

SNIP

MANUEL ZELAYA: (translated) After eight days of my becoming president of the country, the ambassador, Charles Ford, asked me if I could give political asylum to Posada Carriles in Honduras. And of course, I sent him to outside. He spoke to my foreign minister, my secretary of state, about that—the same ambassador who prohibited me from becoming a member of the ALBA. And this ambassador, who just left Honduras, who left the country with a political profile of myself, the ambassador, Ford, left this letter as a profile of the president, and when you read it, you can tell that it is the precursor of the coup itself. WikiLeaks published this document. They published the profile that Ambassador Ford made of me to give to Hugo Llorens, saying that the United States needs to make decisions about what it will do the following year in order to detain me, because I am tied to narcotrafficking and to terrorism and to many, many other things. So, he prepared the ambiance, situation. And he was transferred from the embassy to the Southern Command. And that is the tie. And if you ask today, where is this Ambassador Ford? He is in the Southern Command. And so, he left here in order to prepare the coup d’état.

SNIP

MANUEL ZELAYA: (translated) We’re talking about the United States, so it’s an empire. The United States is an empire, and so Obama is the president of the United States, but he is not the chief of the empire. Even though Obama would be against the coup, the process toward the coup was already moving forward. The most that they tell a president like President Obama, that there’s a political crisis going on. But they do not talk about the details that they were involved in in terms of the conspiracy.

[Peace Patriot]

4. Just one comment on Rotters' framing of this story...

This is the FIRST time, anywhere in the corpo-fascist press, that I have seen ANY effort to discuss Zelaya's constitutional proposal with some modicum of journalistic ethics.

--

"The Honduran army, acting on a court order with backing from Congress, whisked the left-leaning Zelaya out of the country in June 2009 after he pushed a referendum seen by the opposition as an attempt to extend his term as president." --Rotters

--

"...seen by the opposition as...". How important those words are! To this point, the corpo-fascist press has ASSERTED the rightwing coup's lie that Zelaya proposed extending his term own limit--and they have done so without attribution, as if that were the objective truth.

Here is the entirety of the referendum that Zelaya proposed, for an ADVISORY vote of the people, at the behest of labor unions and other grass roots groups:

"Do you agree that, during the general elections of November 2009 there should be a fourth ballot to decide whether to hold a Constituent National Assembly that will approve a new political constitution?"

http://www.borev.net/2009/06/national_news_outlets_bring_th.html

NOTHING to do with term limits. The vote would have had no force of law. It would have gone to the legislature for discussion. It merely asked the people, do they want to VOTE ON having a process to discuss, amend and vote on the constitution? --a constitution written by Reagan's henchmen, in the 1980s, to keep the oligarchy in power and the U.S. funded/trained Honduran military in control. That's all that it did. 'Do you or don't you want to vote on having such a process?' The vote had nothing to do with term limits, and, if they had voted "yes" on the idea, nothing that resulted would have, and could have, applied to him.

For this, his house was shot up and he was taken at gunpoint to a Honduran military plane, which stopped at the U.S. military air base in Soto Cano, Honduras, for refueling, and exiled from his own country--a plain violation of the very constitution they lied about their devotion to, which forbids the exile of any Honduran citizen!

This lie by the coupsters--that Zelaya was trying to extend his own term--was invented in a Washington P.R. firm and then trumpeted throughout the world, repeatedly, for two years now, until this article, which AT LEAST attributes this goddamned lie TO somebody.

They NEVER EVER ONCE provided the TEXT of Zelaya's proposal!

Some frackin rightwing Bushwhacky lies last much longer than two years. This one may be on its way to being over--though the whiffs of "dictatorship" that it was intended to smear Zelaya with will probably continue in the minds of many, many uncareful readers and 'news' consumers. Lies like this require public apology and correction! That, of course, ain't gonna happen.

God, I hated this lie!

[joshcryer]

7. Patently false, every single aspect of the constitution was ammendable...

...except term limits. The only logical conclusion was that Zelaya was moving to abolish them.

Fact is every amendment Zelaya "claimed" to have been "intending" was in fact implemented, constitutionally, without a constitutional assembly.

[Judi Lynn]

8. Oscar Arias called the Honduran "constitution" the "worst in the entire world."

Arias warns Honduran elections won’t be recognized
Saturday, October 3rd, 2009 | Filed under Costa Rica Headlines
By JENNIFER KAY (AP)

CORAL GABLES, Fla. — Costa Rica’s President Oscar Arias on Tuesday commended the interim president of Honduras for saying he will reverse an emergency decree suspending civil liberties in his country.

But he warned that the results of the Nov. 29 presidential election in Honduras would not be internationally recognized if it is held while interim President Robert Micheletti’s government is in charge.

~snip~
Also to blame was the Honduran constitution, he said. He called it “the worst in the entire world” and “an invitation to coups.”

More:
http://thecostaricanews.com/arias-warns-honduran-elections-wont-be-recognized/670

[joshcryer]

14. LOL, his only criticism is that it lacks an impeachment process.

Which can be easily added to the constitution via referendum.

[roody]

15. Where do you get your information?

[joshcryer]

16. I read?

Do you have anything to suggest that my information is false? Because the fact is that most of the Zelaya lovers simply overlook the overwhelming evidence that he is a US puppet intended to get the US in with ALBA.

[roody]

18. How about some links?

[joshcryer]

24. Links:

The wikileaks in question, where he does our bidding:
http://wikileaks.adren.org/cable/2009/06/09TEGUCIGALPA431.html

Zelaya praised Secretary Hillary Clinton for her work during the General Assembly, adding that he thought that in their second and last meeting she had made a very convincing and powerful case for the U.S. position, which had impacted greatly on him.

3. (C) Comment: Zelaya found himself trapped between his desire to please both the U.S. and his ALBA friends at the OAS. The need to produce a successful assembly won out, however, and Zelaya successfully pressured ALBA to accept our text.

Zelaya denies it of course. :rofl:

Wonderful words for Zelaya: Zelaya administration's first 45 days - pro-U.S: http://wikileaks.adren.org/cable/2006/03/06TEGUCIGALPA526.html

He implemented CAFTA-DR as we wished: http://wikileaks.adren.org/cable/2007/06/07TEGUCIGALPA1154.html

This profile of him is even better, showing how he "understood his role" and implied that the US turned a blind eye to his corrupt administration: http://wikileaks.adren.org/cable/2008/05/08TEGUCIGALPA459.html

The justice minister was pissed that the military evacuated him (using a US military base no less) to avoid facing charges: http://wikileaks.adren.org/cable/2010/01/10TEGUCIGALPA16.html

Nasty words for Micheletti (who wound up in charge during the transition): http://wikileaks.adren.org/cable/2008/08/08TEGUCIGALPA765.html

Funny oil deals: http://wikileaks.adren.org/cable/2008/01/08TEGUCIGALPA86.html

[harmonicon]

10. I agree, but even this fucking Reuters story still continues with many of the smears.

... or at least it's bad writing.

We can already read in this thread that the right-wing lie machine is still at work.

[rabs]

11. The proposed poll was absolutely innocuous

and our resident right-wingers do not, or refuse, to understand that.

It was simply an informal, non-binding YES-OR NO poll about the possibility of ASKING A SECOND QUESTION. So the first question would have had to be validated by the second question.

The poll would not have had any any effect what-so-ever in the short or medium term in 2009 and would not have affected Zelaya in any way because he would not have been a candidate in the November, 2009 general elections.

The claim that Zelaya was seeking to be re-elected is a BIG LIE that the golpista Supreme Court and golpista media propagated and which was dutifully picked up by Reuters, the AP, BBC Univision, and other international media.

Btw, some media keeping calling it a referendum. There is a big difference in an informal plebiscite such as the one Zelaya proposed and a referendum. A plebiscite is non binding. A referendum is legally binding, such as an amendment to a constitution. The Zelaya poll question was NOT BINDING.

[joshcryer]

13. No one who disputes the constitutionality of it says the 2009 outcome is relevant.

No one is claiming that he was, at that point, trying to get reelected. That is irrelevant, and it is a strawman.

The constitution is very specific, Zelaya's mere question of a referendum is a violation of the constitution. It doesn't matter if it was a poll. He could've said it privately with his wife, if the public had evidence of it, pow, gone, bye bye.

The Honduran constitution has been modified 22 times since 1982. 368 of 375 of those articles are amendable without constitutional assembly, and in fact Zelaya's supposed 'reforms' were adopted without a constitutional assembly.

Authoritarian leftists are a peculiar bunch, they defend US puppets (Zelaya is a "good friend" with the US, is a rich businessman, and was the US's 'in' to ALBA), they defend the rule of law one minute then the next make up when the "rule of law" is broken (in their minds "arbitrarily").

[Judi Lynn]

19. "No one is claiming that he was, at that point, trying to get reelected." Really?

That WAS the main thrust of their claim against him.

We all know that.

That was a lie, as well all know.

Don't keep trying to rehash it until you think it has come out the way you want people to accept. That just isn't going to happen.

[joshcryer]

27. No, it wasn't. The main thrust of their claim against him was that he...

...violated the constitution. It helped that he stole public Honduran money for his own corrupt ends.

[Judi Lynn]

29. Oh, that's a new one. He embezzled the taxpypayers' money. Beautiful.

Don't just screech and shriek about your hatred for Zelaya.

If you're attempting to represent the truth here, realize facts, with references speak a whole lot louder than rage and temper tantrums.

Get those links you need to bring with you.

We have all been paying careful attention since the illegal coup.

[joshcryer]

30. You don't think spending $80k of public money is not illegal?

I guess you wouldn't, given your cheer leading for a US puppet.

http://www.hondurasnews.com/government-removes-zelayas-perks/

[Judi Lynn]

32. If they have evidence of this, a REAL witness, or any material evidence,

then they would have brought it forward at the time, not just blabber about it in the teabagger media.

Likewise with the illegal coup. Had he REALLY broken the law, why wouldn't you think they WOULD have put him on trial because of it?

Do you think everyone is really that stupid? They HAD to get him out of the country in order to steal it.

It's embarrassing seeing you spin like a dervish this way. You don't do it very well.

[joshcryer]

34. No, the military didn't want a conflict since he had supporters.

And he himself didn't want his head blown off in the ensuing civil conflict.

If they put him in jail after being charged then there would've been hundreds if not thousands of protesters, some probably armed. It would've been very ugly.

Why would he have required amnesty to return if he didn't know he had charges that could be filed against him?

Again read the wikileaks where the Chief Justice expresses his grief that the military unconstitutionally removed him from the country.

[Judi Lynn]

36. Filing charges they could successfully prosecute would be a far different matter.

Please do go ahead and simply link anything you have to prove Manuel Zelaya STOLE MONEY FROM HONDURAS.

As for the military fearing his supporters, do you really imagine that has presented them a problem in the couple of years they've been torturing and murdering, and raping Honduran leftists? Zelaya's supporters aren't lethal, and everyone knows that. This has always been a totally non-violent protest, even while the military and police have been bearing down on leftists, union workers, farmers, teachers, political and social activists, and even the U.N. has been calling them out for their heavy-handed, violent reppression.

We'll be waiting for your important evidence against Manuel Zelaya. Don't leave us in the dark when you have so much you could use to enlighten us. Remember, your word is not sufficient. We need sources.

[joshcryer]

37. I have provided links, it's not my fault you refuse to read.

[Judi Lynn]

40. Where are those links? n/t

[ronnie624]

43. I read the material you linked to.

None of it supports your claims, and much of it is completely irrelevant to your claims.

Apparently, you think the mere posting of links is enough to impress.

[Judi Lynn]

5. Video: Two Years After Coup, Overthrown President Returning to Honduras

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=6840

[DutchLiberal]

41. I take issue with the term "ex-president".

To me, Manuel Zelaya is still the *legal* president of Honduras, since he's the last one to have been duly elected in fair elections.

[Bacchus39]

44. that's nice. meanwhile Santos of Colombia and Hugo met with the actual president of Honduras

on terms which would allow Z to return that included dropping criminal charges.

[ronnie624]

46. And that makes everything OK now.

Not.

[Bacchus39]

47. you can move on or relive Zelaya's criminal actions and aftermath eternally

if you like. its up to you. Honduras has moved on. There is a new president now.

[ronnie624]

48. I'm just an observer.

Currently, no one has any choice but to "move on". Those with power have lots of it, and they will use it to thwart democracy at every opportunity, then tell everyone to "move on".

But I don't hold with dictators. I'll always be hoping for real democracy, there and here.

[Bacchus39]

49. ok, well you should be pleased that Honduras retained their scheduled election

the interim goverment stepped down, Honduras is receiving diplomatic recognition, for Zelaya's sake he is no longer under criminal prosecution.

[Judi Lynn]

50. DU'ers are very well aware the coup regime's police attacked leftist candidates,

one of the presidential candidates fled the country, one was beaten so badly he was taken to the hospital with broken limbs, and completely unable to campaign, had he wanted to campaign after being viciously attacked, another was beaten badly, and a large group of leftist candidates all withdrew from the election all together, The photo was posted right here of a long line of these terrorized people waiting to get the paperwork done to withdraw formally from the race.

Don't even begin to claim they "retained" their election. It's no election when you beat and terrorize the opposition, and keep the public in the dark about it all by enforcing a hideous curfew which limited their time so severely they had little means of even getting their food from the stores before they had to be off the streets in the evening. Keeping them literally in the dark was accomplished by turning off the electricity,, water, gas, and destroying the broadcasting equipment in both the independent, anti-coup tv and radio stations, so NO SIDE was heard other than the right-wing's side, when they finally got their electricity re-established.

There was NO normal campaign season. Everyone knows that.

You keep dragging back with that same old spin, and it's still wrong, just as wildly wrong as ever. Repeating it endlessly won't work for anyone but you and those like you.

[Bacchus39]

51. you should take up your concerns to President Lobo or the court system

I am fine with the political outcome in Honduras. I have no real opinion on Lobo's performance as he may be the most incompetent leader ever, or he may be good. thats up for Hondurans to decide. societal problems in Honduras will persist regardless of leadership for awhile I would venture to guess.

[Judi Lynn]

52. There's the other matter of monster landowners who have stolen land from the people,

and brought in scum paras from outside the country, from places like Colombia, to shoot the campesinos when they try to get back to the land which was given them by the government.

Nothing's going to work until the ultimate power is taken out of the hands of the tiny filthy few who created the coup in the first place.

[Bacchus39]

53. you should get involved and try to do what you can to help n/t

s

[creon]

55. yes

This is an internal Honduras matter.
It is for Honduras to solve.

[creon]

54. Honduras matter

This is a matter for Honduras to handle.