Health Insurers Making Record Profits as Many Postpone Care

[alp227]

Source: The New York Times

The nation’s major health insurers are barreling into a third year of record profits, enriched in recent months by a lingering recessionary mind-set among Americans who are postponing or forgoing medical care.

The UnitedHealth Group, one of the largest commercial insurers, told analysts that so far this year, insured hospital stays actually decreased in some instances. In reporting its earnings last week, Cigna, another insurer, talked about the “low level” of medical use.

Yet the companies continue to press for higher premiums, even though their reserve coffers are flush with profits and shareholders have been rewarded with new dividends. Many defend proposed double-digit increases in the rates they charge, citing a need for protection against any sudden uptick in demand once people have more money to spend on their health, as well as the rising price of care.

Even with a halting economic recovery, doctors and others say many people are still extremely budget-conscious, signaling the possibility of a fundamental change in Americans’ appetite for health care.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/14/business/14health.html

[riderinthestorm]

1. Beyond grotesque...

"signaling the possibility of a fundamental change in Americans’ appetite for health care"....

Like Americans have any choice in deciding when and how they'd like their health care. "Oh honey, I've decided that today I'm going to get chemo for my cancer!11!!"


WTF??!! "Appetite"??? This isn't some kind of decision to eat out tonight - it's life or death.

[Lint Head]

3. Yep. Illness is not a choice.

[Go2Peace]

73. For Profit health Insurance is a FEDERAL CRIME in most countries in the world!!!

(for primary care)
When will we get a clue?

[notadmblnd]

9. I have a neice that runs to the Dr. (emergency room usually)

whenever she sneezes. If she has a headache.. she'll run to emergency. Then she follows up at the Dr.s office until he finds something. This week, she ran her daughter to the hospital because she had a rash. Now my mother would have given us a bath, put calamine lotion on it and give it a couple of days to clear up on it's own before calling a Dr. And the only time we were ever taken to the emergency room was when we had a broken bone or a cut that needed stitches (often my mother would just make butterfly bandages if the cut wasn't too severe).

Personally, I think she runs to the Dr. unnecessarily (especially since- so far, there's absolutely no evidence that anything is wrong with her). One week, they're testing for diabetes, the next it is multiple sclerosis. Next week it's a cat scan, cause she woke up one morning and her back hurt, never once giving a thought to the fact that it was stiff from laying her lazy ass in bed too long. When does it end? Oh, and did I mention she is on State aid?

Now I would never want to deny anyone who needed medical care, but I can't help but wonder how many really sick people have to go without because she's running to the emergency room or the Dr.s for frivolous reasons?

[riderinthestorm]

14. I've been to the ER once.

Mind you, my husband is a professional athlete - he competes, trains and lives in the equestrian sport of combined training which paralyzed Christopher Reeve. He's had horses who have flipped over him, landed on him, stomped on his feet or legs (and other parts).

But we've only been to the ER once (and I also have 2 daughters who compete in this sport and I gallop race horses so out of all of us, just one ER visit)... He had severe abdominal pain in the middle of the night. A quick google search of his symptoms indicated he might have appendicitis, or maybe kidney stones.

Nope, he has a fucking tumor the size of a grapefruit in his abdomen that has obstucted his kidney function. Turns out he has Stage IV, Grade IV lymphoma. No other symptoms before this. Nothing to have ever indicated his condition was this dire.

I do not. give. a. a shit. that anyone has to get to a doctor for medical care. Ever. again. I know exactly the point you are making. And quite possibly it's a valid one but frankly, we desperately need an overhaul of our med system to ensure that hypochondriacs AND real medical emergencies can be seen without judgement or weighing whose pain is more real than others.

[givemebackmycountry]

19. Rider...

:hug:

I hope it all works out well for you.
I read your post and I'm with you, the system is useless.

Some industries just outlive their usefulness.
Medical insurers need to go away, they serve no useful function.

[colorado_ufo]

55. God bless you and your family.

May your husband recover fully!

The trouble with delaying treatment for problems is that you are, essentially, trying to be a doctor with zero training. Would you take yourself to a doctor who never set foot in a medical school, much less got a diploma or instruction of any kind?

As a child, we were rather poor and seldom went to the doctor. I didn't find out that I had asthma until I was an adult and therefore suffered a lot of pneumonia and bronchitis as a child that could have been better controlled. Once, I almost died at home of a fever of 106. And this was in the 1950s, in a major U.S. city! That's what happens when there are no medical assistance programs (which did not exist in that day).

But today, there are such programs, and they should be USED. If you pride yourself on being "tough" and never going to a doctor, no one is going to thank you. And if you die, no one will give you a medal for your "bravery."

A former job that I had was front office work for a cancer specialist for almost seven years. One of his patients was a young man who was a lineman. During his work one day, he discovered a rash above his left ankle - no other symptoms. He decided to get it checked out. Two months later, he was dead of acute leukemia.

This year, I was treated TWICE for strep throat and had no symptoms other than a minor sore throat - not even a fever!

The cancer doc that I worked for had a teenaged daughter that fell from her horse. He almost blew it off; after all, he was a doctor, and she seemed OK. When he arrived at work the next day, he was visibly shaken: He did elect to finally bring her to the ER, and they found a ruptured spleen. She was rushed to surgery to keep her from potentially bleeding to death.

What the young woman who frequents the ER and her family need to do is to find an after-hours clinic. These are ideal for people who should get care and cannot access their regular doctor. Much cheaper than an ER visit, and time-effective, also. If she doesn't have a regular doctor, she needs to get one for her and her family a.s.a.p. Especially, NEVER take a chance with a child who is ill or injured! You are literally playing Russian roulette with that child's life, which is entrusted to you.

Again, riderinthestorm, from one horse owner to another: Bless you and your family. You all will be in my thoughts and prayers!

[riderinthestorm]

64. Thanks colorado!

My point wasn't that we are so "tough" but that everyone has different medical needs and while the niece who went to the ER all the time has issues that may be extreme, I really wanted to emphasize that ACCESS to care is so important whether one is a hypochondriac or a tough guy.

And we don't have access, not even nearly so, for many, many Americans including those with health insurance (who are too terrified to go to a doctor for fear of discovering their rash is really leukemia which will mean their rates are going to skyrocket). The insurance companies are the ones playing life and death games with their extortionate rates, their denial of care, their financial discrimination against those with PECs, and disgusting word usages like "lost appetite" for medical care when the reality is that too many just simply can't afford it.

I know there are such programs but they aren't always a good answer. Our local "free" clinic takes patients on a first come, first serve basis. That means the line starts long before the doors open at 8 am and people have been known to wait all day to get seen - that means the parent isn't working and their sick child is stuck waiting all day too. Or you can't even find a Medicaid doctor in your area because the reimbursement is "too small" and no doctor is available.

Our entire system is broken imho. We have great care for those who can afford it (and my husband and I can, and he's in remission and its all good) but ACCESS is worse than ever before for millions of Americans.

[JDPriestly]

84. All the best to you and your husband, riderinthestorm.

If your husband is a good athlete, he probably doesn't focus on discomfort on pain but rather on accomplishing his goals.

My very elderly mother has been like that all her life. She had a heart attack, and the joke in the family is that my sister had to warn the doctor that what would be level 10 pain to anyone else might be level 6 to my mother.

We have differing tolerances to pain.

But the people who constantly have to seek a doctor's reassurance that they are OK when nothing is ever found to be wrong with them are afraid, anxious and insecure. For some people, that stage passes. If it lasts, then psychological care may be needed.

I went to the doctor a lot when I first went to the university. I was very young and alone for the first time, and I was scared and worried about being away from home, about fitting in and about succeeding in my studies. I had so many stomach aches I couldn't count them. As I became more mature and more confident, my "health" improved.

I don't think there are very many people who run to the doctor constantly.

[customerserviceguy]

75. Thank you for using the 'H' word

It's the hypochondriacs that make it miserable for the rest of us. They drive up the costs of medical care, and they make a lot of HMO's treat everyone like they're faking it. I'd surely like to see a better system developed to separate the truly hurting from the malingerers than the current "treat 'em all like it's in their head" model that anybody but a primary care physician uses in the HMO system. I've been with both Kaiser Permanente and Group Health in the Pacific Northwest, and I'm afraid that is what single payer medicine (which I'm for, by the way) will look like when it eventually arrives.

You have to acknowledge that Big Pharma spends a fortune trying to get people to crowd into doctors's offices to clamor for the latest big-buck prescription medicines that they make bazillions on. There are other market-driven forces that make some areas of healthcare spending a real choice instead of an absolute medical necessity. We've got a lot of problems to address in this area before single payer healthcare is a workable reality for our society.

[lbrtbell]

25. IMHO your niece needs a psychiatrist

Not an insult, but genuine concern. And it sounds to me as if the doctors are using her to rip off the state. Nobody can convince a doctor to run a CAT scan for an aching back, unless that doctor smells insurance money.

Meanwhile, she's not getting the real help she needs, which is therapy to work out why she overreacts to illness. :(

[notadmblnd]

41. I totally agree. She needs to be treated for what is really wrong with her

[Enthusiast]

38. I have seen these sorts of characterizations

and points made many times, but only by Republicans.

[freshwest]

52. Agreed, conservative pettiness and ignorance create myths.

[Dokkie]

82. its not a myth

I have seen it happen in my apartment building. Not everything the republican say is a lie, remember even a broken clock is right 2x a day. People abuse the emergency room and it costs us all

[dflprincess]

93. Most people who "abuse" ERs do so because it is their only access to care

People with insurance can't afford to run to them (even when they probably should go to one) because of the deductibles.

[customerserviceguy]

76. It's much easier intellectually

to simply crow "Republican talking points" instead of trying to find legitimate disagreement with what somebody posts.

What was there in post #9 that you take issue with, other than who you think they sound like?

[Enthusiast]

98. It sounded like Limbaugh.

I know what they say. It leaves a mark.

[customerserviceguy]

100. My point is

argue with what Limbaugh says, then. Or the person you're responding to.

I guess I'm just a bit troubled by the tactic of guilt-by-imagined-association, rather than a well-thought out refutation of another person's conclusion around here.

[Enthusiast]

102. Well, it's like this,

we know well the far right wing talking points. They are mythology. I won't spend one moment refuting far right wing talking points by a DUer posing as a liberal Democrat while trying to steer the discussion to favor greed and cruelty. You will just have to be troubled.

[customerserviceguy]

I get a lot of good ammunition here

for what I encounter in the real world. There are some well-reasoned arguments articulated here, and they are quite effective in daily use to counter reich-wing propaganda.

I'm not going to be very effective in such discussions if I simply label something as right wing talking points, it makes me sound like Pee Wee Herman in a blame game.

[customerserviceguy]

104. dupe

[Dokkie]

81. I am guessing you whole heartedly dismissed it

because it can from a republican. I have seen the phenomena too. I have a neighbour that takes her kids to the emergency room for every little concern. Last week alone they went to the emergency room 3x. 1 for a heat rash and 2 for coughs. I am not saying its a common behaviour but it happens enough to be a real problem.

[CBHagman]

87. As someone who has unfortunately been to the emergency...

...room more often than I would have expected (what with a truly boring life), I can testify that I've seen fellow patients with diagnoses from the life-threatening to the absurdly trivial (Remember, if you are kept waiting long enough, you overhear just about everything). Some people overuse it. Some are nearly at death's door when they finally turn up.

As a nation we haven't yet dealt with this problem, and until no politician can get away with demagoguery (e.g., Sarah Palin and her death panels, Mitt Romney and his idiotic claims about deductibles), we won't solve it.

[Enthusiast]

97. Wow, well said. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

99. No, wait, let me guess, she rides a Cadillac and has abortions on demand, right?

[bvar22]

61. Does she drive a Cadillac to the ER?

As long as we are spinning anecdotes, why not add this to the legend?

[Enthusiast]

66. She had steak and lobster for breakfast. nt

[truedelphi]

68. Look, the emergency room is open 24/7, and as long as

The ER your relative visits does triage, which it probably does, I have no problem with it.

If we had Universal Health Care, Single Payer, the cost would be very different than the price gouging that goes on now. But the hospitals love being able to zap the local County or state med programs for the poor people who use them.

The person you describe sounds like a hypochondriac. But the ER is staffed anyway.

I ended up at an ER yesterday. Totally avoidable. I had begged the doctor I saw on Ap 27th for prednisone prescription to be used for when the unavoidable poison oak rash hit me (as it does every year at this time.) But we are treated like children in the USA. I have spent over five years of my life administering morphine to patients in hospice care - but I cannot be entrusted with a prednisone prescription to use when needed

Well poison oak hit a week ago, and after five days of calamine, Tech Nu etc, I was at the point that I felt like I could not breathe. (It had all seemed much improved on Tuesday and Wednesday, but Thursday night, it hit with a vengeance.) Had I lived somewhere where my County had a 24 hour drop-in med clinic, I would have gone there.

I spent an hour having spouse call every doctor in the County I had seen in the last four yrs. None could see me till next Friday.

One other thing to mention - when the bill for this arrives, it will be six to seven hundred bucks. In the SF Bay Area, it would be closer to three thousand bucks!

[notadmblnd]

70. I agree, you need to go when you need to go..

The point with my niece is that she is unnecessarily using resources that others could benefit from. I often wonder how many people who really need medical attention have been declined medicaid because people like my niece take advantage?

You gave your rash a day or two to clear up on its own. when it didn't you sought medical care, I have no qualms with that. And yes, everyone should be able to see a Dr when they truly need one and it should not cost an arm and a leg to do it. The system sucks and if what I posted makes me a republican in some people's eyes- then so be it. But I'd much rather see the guy with cancer get a chance of surviving instead of being declined help because my niece had a headache and wanted a prescription for something stronger than aspirin.

[louis-t]

71. I can't tell you how many people run to the doctor

every time they have a cold. Then they say "the antibiotics are finally kicking in (after 4 or 5 days) and I feel better." If I am in the mood for an argument, I ask "why are you taking antibiotics? It's a cold. Antibiotics only work on bacteria." To which they respond "Oh, the doctor said I have an upper respiratory infection." Of course you have an upper respiratory infection, it's called a 'cold'. You wonder why we have so-called 'super viruses'? Antibiotics to treat a cold! At least 5 times a year I hear this.

[AlbertCat]

79. but I can't help but wonder how many really sick people have to go without

There are few like her.... as far as the general population is concerned.

[JDPriestly]

83. And then there was the woman who had multiple

stomach surgeries for no good reason . . . .

You just happen to know a very crazy example of the exception to the rule.

Most people can't stand being in doctors' offices, never, no way.

A person who runs to the doctor all the time has a problem, but it probably isn't medical.

Maybe she feels very anxious about her life in general. Maybe going to the doctor makes her feel loved or makes her feel like she is being a good mother, a good person.

She needs to see a psychologist about her problem.

[readmoreoften]

85. Clearly your crazy niece's behavior is the key to health problems in America.

It's all those needless Dr's visits by hypochondriacs. Maybe we need corporate-managed health care to make sure people aren't getting too much service. It couldn't be the massive profit motive that's the problem. No, it's the rare mentally disordered patient like your niece.

[Missy Vixen]

89. I had a painful lump on my side two weeks ago

Normally, I would treat it at home, and wait for it to go away. It was a staph infection. Good thing I went to the doctor.

There are doctors now who will not treat those without medical insurance.

[Bigmack]

101. With my plan for universal health care....

there would be neighborhood - even storefront - clinics staffed by LPNs, RNs, ex-Navy Corpsmen... etc. who would do triage, minor stitching, rashes, give out condoms... and like that. I trust those people to make good decisions.

Cost would be minimal, and load on the ERs would be lighter.

If your niece went to the ER, they'd just kick her to the local clinic.

[No Elephants]

26. And I know of a young man who died because he had to choose between paying rent and buying meds--and

he chose to pay his rent that month.

[Jefferson23]

48. A reality the MSM does not cover, very sad. n/t

[liberalmike27]

56. About 42,000 a Year

Die because they wait too long to seek care, or are turned down at the ER because they don't have a gushing flesh wound.

We need a system of clinics in hospitals, paid for by the government, to assess the unseen emergencies. Perhaps it'd have been a better idea than what they came up with. I actually think that might have been part of the plan.

I think a certain republican element actually want poor people to die. Make sure they are born, to drive down the cost of labor, and provide plenty of desperate people to the labor market, to scramble for the few crumbs of jobs, and then dispose of the sick, as the "final solution."

Clearly the only way we'll ever get rid of health insurance is if we all stop taking it. The system as is, must collapse, before a new one can take its place.

Same thing with the military--before we can change the MIC, the Pentagon, we need to bleed them dry of soldiers willing to go and fight. With the special kind of brainwashing they get, it's going to be hard to do. As long as we feed the meat market, it will continue, in all industries. And try to buy your drugs from Canada.

[harun]

34. Obscene and embarrassing.

[Lint Head]

2. Insurance companies are bag men for rich fascist CEOs. The entire concept behind what

a CEO is and does needs to change. That kind of power should be illegal in any country.

[freshwest]

11. We gotta kick these guys to the curb; and educate their supporters.

[Lint Head]

91. They've been kicking us and my family to the curb for too long.

[bluestateguy]

4. Anybody who makes their living from this despicable industry is a vile person

They make money by denying people health care, plain and simple. Their policies cause people to die every year.

God will judge the people who profit from this industry.

[TBF]

35. Rather than letting "god sort them all out" -

why don't we be proactive and nationalize health care now?

Your little imaginary guy in the sky may turn out to be real, who knows, but with my loved one's health care I'd rather we stick to known science and do a better job of treating ALL people, regardless of income.

[MatthewStLouis]

5. Not surprising.

If I had good insurance that would actually cover things, I'd be more likely to visit my doctor. Since my only affordable option is DAMNED HSA insurance, I'm afraid to go in. So, I'd have to be dying and racking up a high deductible before my insurance ever kicks in.

Health Insurance is such a racket. What useful thing does a health insurance company make, besides profit for themselves?

[a2liberal]

27. And those great high deductible plans...

are the kind that our new healthcare law encourages, actually dis-incentivizing the kind of plan we all ought to have (covering everything) with extra taxes. Force people to buy insurance that they can't afford to actually use... what a great idea!

[spinbaby]

29. That's the real reason people are going to the doctor less

It costs a fortune even with insurance. We have "good" insurance by most standards and it still cost me $126 to see a specialist for five minutes.

[customerserviceguy]

78. I've got one of those plans

And I'm using it to save away some serious money for my future medical needs as a senior. Even though I've been on it for less than a year, I've already got the annual deductable saved up, with tax-free contributions from my pay (most of which is the difference between the premium I pay, and the premium I would have paid under the full-coverage plan), and from $75 a month from my employer. Yes, I acknowledge that not everybody is lucky enough to work in a good union job like I have, but for me it works.

If your car insurance paid for every oil change, every car wash, and a new set of tires every couple of years, do you think it would cost a LOT more than it does right now? That's what full coverage medical plans are a bit like, and the costs of providing all the services get passed on to everybody in those plans. Once upon a time, medical insurance was for seriously high costs, deductables used to be fairly high, relative to the costs of treatment. By having more of our healthcare dollars routed through the insurance system, they get to pinch off a bigger number of dollars when they take their percentage.

It's not going to work that way with me, most years.

[Lorien]

95. That was the whole point: forcing us to spend on a product that we can never

afford to use. A win-win for investors, and a way for the elite to cull the herd.

[bvar22]

63. The Catch-22:

Even with a High Deductible Plan, most people won't be able to afford the 20% (or more) Co-Pay once the insurance does Kick In.
The "historic" HCR does nothing about this.

"Medical Bankruptcy" is a term unknown in civilized countries.
It will STILL be Big Business here even after 2014, probably BIGGER.

"They" want it ALL,
and they will get it.
There is nothing you can do to stop them.

If you don't like that,
it is your own fault.
If you were smart,
you would have been born into the Top 1%.

[russspeakeasy]

6. How can they be earning record profits? Didn't they promise to

halt excessive patient charges and hold back on premium
hikes.. I'm just sure I heard them say that.
I think they also said, "regulations, we don't need no
stinking regulations"!

[colsohlibgal]

7. No Conscience

I'd call them pond scum but that wouldn't be at all fair to pond scum. My thought is that Jesus would not be happy with these blood sucking leeches profiting to the extreme on other people's suffering and dying that is on said leeches.

Our country is so messed up right now, so messed up in so many ways. With health care Obama's bill was too little and too late and a big fat wet dream for Big Pharma and Big Insurance.

[Bozita]

8. This pisses me off more than those useless fucking wars

Mostly because they're related ... through the money!

[Enthusiast]

39. Yup.

Every day we hear several talking heads on TV tell us how medicare is unsustainable. But we never hear a word about the ridiculous size of the military and perpetual war. And apparently the PTB hope we won't notice this contradiction.

[madrchsod]

10. they are also making money by....

delaying payments to health-care providers. three years ago my bc/bs started delaying payments beyond the standard 30 day billing/payment cycle. in my case it was three months and there was nothing wrong with the claim. not paying out tens of thousands of dollars for over two months adds up over a couple of hundred thousand claims

[freshwest]

12. Yes, like in all ventures, the ones doing the work (care) get the shaft. So these vampires can play.

[lonestarnot]

18. Yeppers any way they can.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

22. Oh yes, madrchsod

I began looking for a skilled nursing facility for my mother yesterday after she's discharged from the hospital. Medicare pays for 20 days, but on the 21st day, secondary insurance supposedly takes over for most of the cost. My folks are unlucky enough to have United Health Care/AARP, and the facility employee told me that some companies take up to 3 months to begin paying. The patient is responsible until that happens which can rack up into the thousands.

Health care and education are really taking it on the chin this year. And it's sickening.

[thelordofhell]

13. With every dollar they make,........a person dies

Health insurance only gets in the way of Health Care

[Enthusiast]

40. Health insurance

serves only one purpose -profit. They do nothing useful whatsoever. These companies only drain our resources. Health care must be nationalized. Make the Teabaggers squeal.

[freshwest]

49. Their terms, 'gatekeeping' and 'headchopping' explains how little they value humans.

[midnight]

15. K&R

[dflprincess]

16. Thank God it passed!

:sarcasm:

In a couple years we will all be required to contribute to these crooks.

[Dokkie]

86. smart investors invested

in health insurance companies when HCR passed. If you cant beat them, join them

[uppityperson]

17. Been investigating health ins. Can afford, barely, catastrophic.

$10,000 deductible for everything but legally mandated preventive care. Found one with 0 co-insurance after that so only, "only", will have to pay $10,000 each every yr. $370/month for 2 of us. If something happens, that mean $4440/yr in insurance premiums and still $10,000 deductible before they chip in. Neither works enough hours for a company to buy into their ins, thi is for us as self employed people.

$14,440/yr if something major happens and only $4440/yr if we need no care.

Fuck the insurance industry.

[Lorien]

94. Could you PM me if your find anything more reasonable?

I'm also self employed and looking for insurance that isn't a total rip off. I was with NASE and United HealthCare in the past. They were both horrible.

[defendandprotect]

20. MEDICARE FOR ALL -- dump insurance companies and force Big Pharma to negotiate ...

on drug prices!!

[Enthusiast]

42. Now now,

how could the drug makers afford research and development? :sarcasm:

[Trajan]

21. Has anyone mentioned the unconscionable rate hikes yet ?

Hmmm .... are there parallels to other commodities in our community ?

[gtar100]

23. There are people who will fight over the last crumb until they kill us all.

Insurance executives among them.

This is capitalism at its worst.

[BREMPRO]

24. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA FUKINCROOKS! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


PISSA ME OFF... AG AND HHS SEC SHOULD BE UP THESE GUYS ASS AND PULLING THERE INTESTINES OUT.

[Baby Bear]

30. Well said n/t

[Avant Guardian]

28. Massive deductibles

...keep people away from the doctor.

[KG]

31. and there are those that still believe 'health care reform' was a good idea.

:eyes:

[forty6]

32. Shut them all down! We don't need private insurance companies! n/t

[woo me with science]

33. Kicked and strongly recommended. nt

\

[Jefferson23]

36. As long as the for profit structure stays in place the more Americans

will be without, and yea, a percentage will indeed die.

[Hubert Flottz]

37. If you could just talk your way into people handing you cash...

wouldn't you do it?

We've been sold out again.

[Thor_MN]

43. I have a relative that works for the nurse phone area of one of the major providers

Several years ago a new exec, with no medical education whatsoever, came in and insisted on reducing the call times to maximize profits. With lower call times, each nurse can handle more calls, reducing the number of nurses needed. My relative pointed out that they follow protocol scripts to determine the nature of the call, diagnose the issue, and instruct the caller appropriately. People's lives are literally on the line, if someone in pain is told it's noting, they could die of a burst appendix. The exec responded that it would be cheaper to pay a few wrongful deaths settlements a year than to employ as many nurses as they had.

[customerserviceguy]

80. That's the usual pinhead way of running a call center

They have zero ways of tracking the quality of a call, but they all have stopwatches.

For such a pinhead, ten calls that the phone reps can get rid of the same person in two minutes is way better for your stats than one ten or fifteen minute call that actually solves the caller's problem.

[neoralme]

44. Putting off medical care is just one aspect of the problem. The

other problem is that the current crop of doctors (at least in my area) is so bad neither my wife nor I (and we HAVE insurance) refuse to see them. My current doctor is an Egytpian of about 85. I can't understand him hardly at all. I'll ask him medical questions, and he doesn't know the answers, even to fairly simple questions. My wife, who is a Georgetown RN who is the the DON for a hospital is horrified. She says she is seeing the same thing at the hospital where she works. Our doctor has a nurse practitioner that we elect to see rather than the doctor. She says that about 30 per cent of the people she sees in the office are afraid of coming to see them. I asked another doctor the other day how come there were so many foreign doctors. He said that only 6% of medical school graduates are becoming GP's because there is not enough money in it. So we are being forced to pay high insurance premiums to see doctors who sometimes can't be understood, who may or may not know what they are doing, and who themselves are making very little money. I am ill now, and will self-treat like always. If I need medicine, I'll get it off the internet from one of the sources I've screened for quality over the years. The situation is grossly untenable. And, it is going to get worse. By the time my daughter gets to be my wife's and my age she may be seeing witch doctors. Maybe if 5-21-2011 is indeed the beginning of the Rapture, that might be a good thing. This living terrified every day is for the birds.

[Patchuli]

45. I'm not putting a thing off!

I'm paying and I'm using it! That's called enterprise. They don't like to pay? They shouldn't take my money and promise a product that they don't plan to deliver. I hate insurance.

[SHRED]

46. We wanted reform

We got a corporate giveaway.


---

[JoeyTrib]

47. This was entirely predictable from the legislation

And many on DU did, in fact, predict just this result. Many of that group are no longer with us.

The health insurance bill took away Congress's power to actually do anything, so all the NYTimes can do is aid in the general bitching against the industry. Obama and the Democrats gave the insurance companies a mandated consumer base, selling out the citizenry to corporations whose only goal is to make a profit. To those who supported this unholy alliance between a corrupted government and a thoroughly corrupt industry, I say stop your bitching, lie back and enjoy it. You asked for it.

[hulka38]

50. +1

[neoralme]

53. +1

[Egnever]

90. What legislation?

Cause if you are talking about the health care legislation then I dont think you know what you are talking about.

The Health care legislation actually addresses this by forcing insurers to put 85% of every dollar taken in towards actual health care and to refund to its subscribers any overage. Unfortunately that rule doesn't go into effect for another year or two.

These crooks are likely grabbing every penny they can before the "legislation" goes into effect. But blaming the "legislation" for their thievery before they are under the legislation's effects is either completely dishonest on your part or ignorant of what the Legislation actually does.

[woo me with science]

103. +100000 nt

[Aerows]

51. Does anyone think this will stop until 'We the People'

Make it stop?

If dividends are rolling in, and your stock is soaring, you aren't going to vote to end this, no matter your party affiliation - it's simple logic. People do what is best for them as an individual.

Very few people have the psychological balance necessary to see past short term gains.

I don't even thing legislation is going to stop this - it's going to be 'We the People' putting enough pressure on this bunch of greedy assholes that they can't breathe unless they stop it.

What message did they just get? Positive reinforcement training says they were rewarded for bad behavior. It's time to start treating this bunch like you would train a dog (or a criminal), and cage them for bad behavior.

[neoralme]

54. And how exactly would you do that? Until people are on the streets

with shovels and rakes, nothing will change. Because the agents of change (congress, et al) are corrupt).

[Aerows]

58. I'm with you

in the streets with pitchforks and torches, because that is exactly what it will take.

[neoralme]

65. I'll be alongside you although maybe not in the same city or

state. We'll take them down, but there will be years afterward of pain.

[ThatsMyBarack]

57. I said it once, I'll say it again.

In short, I avoid doctors' visits to avoid the song-and-dance from my insurance (ha!) company about how this and that and the other thing isn't covered--resulting in me having to pay every fucking red cent out-of-pocket.

[proud patriot]

59. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Cleita]

60. We need a law forbidding insurance companies to sell

health coverage. They are parasites on the system and the real entity that gets between you and your doctor. Then we need a second law stating no one should be turned away for health care. Then let the legislators go back to the table to craft some real health care access reform that benefits both the patient and the health care provider.

[ooglymoogly]

62. This story is part bullshit, part "What ; me worry"...The most devastating reason the

Insurance giants are making windfall profits is a wholesale cutting back on medicines and services they cover and making the paperwork to get many prescriptions filled near impossible; further making doctors weary of prescribing them. That coupled with relentlessly raising co-pays a dollar here, a dollar there, further degrading their liability and our health in one fell swoop.

This is a non mia culpa story to cover for theft, by covering less and less vital medicines and procedures for the poor and the elderly that they initially agreed to cover, to get the contracts.

They know the poor and the elderly can't fight back and are the easiest sheep to fleece.

And this is why corporations cannot be trusted with our health.

Their only concern is the bottom line, which provides millions of dollars in bonuses.

By investing our medical futures in the hands of middle men, our government has thrown us to the wolves.

There is nowhere but down from here.

Our only recourse is to run every pug and bluedog out of office before they kill us all.

[Odin2005]

67. Disgusting.

:grr:

[totodeinhere]

69. We need to go back to the drawing boards and pass real health reform this time.

The so-called HCR they passed last time is not worth a damn in spite of what some apologists may say. My health insurance premium recently went up over 30%. This has got to stop.

[jimlup]

72. The whole health care debacle makes me so god damn mad!

Oh don't mean the work that Obama did which I approve of though it didn't go nearly far enough but, the whole sordid mess in general. What the hell is wrong with our leaders that they can't find a path to fix our god damn national nightmare. I know people who have DIED (Cancer) because of lack of health care. It is unconscionable. Canadian style, British style but certainly not "American capitalist fuck you in the ass" style.

As a young father, I went years without being able to provide decent health coverage for my family. I was lucky and eventually was able to find a job which supported family health care but in the process I became madder than mad. I honestly can't debate this issue rationally because I become frothing at the mouth angry at the stupidity of the right wingers in our country who seem to like being fucked in the ass by the capitalists.

Sorry for the graphic language but this issue really incites me. Just needed to blow some steam - thanks...

[Initech]

74. For profit healthcare = worst idea in the history of man!

[entanglement]

77. Naturally, the uninsured / dying / sick should buy health company stock to share in the prosperity

So says the great free-market. Oh, and tax cuts for insurance execs and CEOs will trickle down on them one way or another so they should be doubly thankful.

[Corruption Winz]

88. Economically, health care is the only...

thing in this country that still goes up in price while demand technically dies down. Virtually anything else (including gas, forget what Fox News tells you), goes down in the same set of circumstances.

Unbelievable. Literally.. blood-sucking bastards.

[somone]

92. Obscene

but that's their business model.

[OwnedByFerrets]

96. Even though this is despicable beyond words, our lawmakers are

even more so for allowing it to continue unabated....hell, even assist it.

[christx30]

105. I'm excited

to finally have found a job where I can afford the health insurance after 2 years of having none. I'm legally blind and I need glasses to be able to tie my shoes. Going to get a new prescription.