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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 07:10 AM
Original message
Army Girds to Confront Radical Cleric
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9600-2004Apr1...


Army Girds to Confront Radical Cleric

Four Bodies Found Near Where Civilian Convoy Was Attacked

By Sewell Chan and Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, April 14, 2004; Page A01


BAGHDAD, April 13 -- A force of 2,500 troops from three U.S. Army divisions massed Tuesday on the northern outskirts of the Iraqi holy city of Najaf and readied for a confrontation with Shiite Muslim cleric Moqtada Sadr, who defiantly declared that he was prepared to die for his cause.

In Washington, the State Department said four mutilated bodies were found west of Baghdad, near the spot where seven American civilians employed by Halliburton Co. disappeared Friday during an attack on a supply convoy. A department spokesman said that the bodies had not been identified and that the U.S.-led occupation authority was investigating.

The State Department has been in constant contact with relatives of the missing civilians since they were abducted, and the families were notified of the discovery of the four bodies Tuesday, the spokesman said. Halliburton said in a statement that it could not confirm that the bodies were those of the missing workers.

The occupation authority said 40 hostages from 12 countries were known to be held by Iraqi insurgents -- at least 15 more than the number publicly reported by individual employers and foreign governments.

..more..



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mikey_1962 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. After watching what happened to Saddam this guy must be soiling himself
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. What makes 'ya think so mikey?
Muqtada Sdyr may be just a little pissed watching hundreds of innocent civilians shot down by marine sharpshooters in Fullujah.

If anyone has been soiling himself, I'd say junior did a good job last night, 'eh?
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mikey_1962 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. er..ahh...<pause>... um... "Thank You Mr President"
I think he is scared, pulled all his men out of the occupied Police stations and removed his road blocks.

All the other clerics are putting a lot of distance between him and themselves...
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Where did all them fucking indians come from????
There is a slight discrepency in numbers, and we're on the underside, 135,0000 to 26,000,000. It doesn't make a big rat's ass if you are the most technologically advanced army, Custer has the latest in arms when he rode into the little bighorn, he didn't ride out.
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pinerow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. One can say many things about this Sadr fellow, but I don't think coward
fits his description; lets remember, the U.S. invaded his country, and if one lesson was learned in Vietnam, it is that when one country invades the other, people will fight the aggressor. take yourself out of the maelstrom and look at the situation objectively; What would you do if you were in that situation?
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Obviously you don't know Sadr's history
Sadr's entire family was liquidated by Saddam. Nevertheless he and his men set up an underground opposition movement in the face of that police state. Anything we could do to Sadr pales in comparison to what Saddam would have done.

Sadr has been acceding to the wishes of the Hawza in Najaf because he wants to be seen as the aggrieved party. The US wants him in exile or under arrest. This is the one demand that neither the Hawza nor Sadr will permit. So if we achieve anything less than this, Sadr wins and his standing increases among shi'ah even further.
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mikey_1962 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Iraqis want him arrested for murder
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Bullshit!
You need to email Fox News and tell them that the info they gave you is just US propaganda.
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mmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. I think mikey needs to read more
or something
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mikey_1962 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Mikey is an Engineer with several iron in the fire, but I do like the "or
something" aspect................
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. A Saddam judge, based on the *incidental* death of Khoei
The target of the attackers was not Khoei, but another cleric. Khoei tried to stand between the two parties and was killed. In any case, Sadr wasn't there, and hardly hacked down any clerics that day himself.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Elaborating..
The warrant against him was signed months ago by a US-appointed ex-Mukhabarat "judge". The secret police were Saddam's agents previously, and if they could martyr Sadr's father what wouldn't they do to the son now that many of the "Saddam loyalists" have put themselves in service of the occupation? Even the puppets of the occupyers on the "IGC" said it was not legitimate. The story itself is a baseless lie spread by propaganda agents of the occupyers and those who know no better.

At any rate, Sayyid Khuii thought it a good idea to ride in behind the tanks of the invaders after forging fawtas in Sayyid Sistani's name.. Didn't work out too well for him, just like it eventually will not for the jackals with the same idea.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. "all the other clerics"?
Where do you get your news? There was a meeting yesterday morning with Sadr and representatives of the three most respected clerics. I have to wonder if the Shiites consider him "radical" the way the US media paints him.
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mikey_1962 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
38. all the other clerics except the one he ordered a "hit" on
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. LOL...
mikey... you are watching WAY too much faux "news"... LOL!
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Reports that I have read show that most
clerics are leaning towards Al-Sadr. Even Al-Sistani is giving him the wink. I'm not sure where your info comes from, but when Al-Sadr says he is willing to die, I think he means it.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. If by "putting a lot of distance" you mean "remarkably backing him up"
Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 03:55 PM by Aidoneus
that'd be correct..

Might need to pay closer attention to recent events--you seem very confused and misinformed.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. No, I don't think the Kurds are going to catch this guy...
And leave him for the US Army to pick up. That's what happened to Saddam.

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mikey_1962 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
39. This guy is in the south, Kurds are in the North, not going to happen
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. No, after watching what happened to Saddam, Sadr rejoiced.
Then went on to his next enemy.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. Al Sadr is playing a game
I think al Sadr is playing the US military. He pulled his militia out of government buildings, and they now provide security to the Holy sites in Najaf, a city that is sacred to the Shia's.

If the US enters to attempt to arrest him, they will have to fight and in that fighting will probably kill civilians and damage if not destroy some of the Holy sites in the city.

This in turn will force the hand of the more moderate Shia clerics, like Sistani, to support Sadr. If they don't their credibility will be questioned by the Shia community, and even the Sunnis can use this
as a rallying cry.

It can be pointed out that Sistani did nothing but stand on the side lines, while the US military did what it wanted to.

It's a viable scenario, so let's wait and see what happens now
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
10. Watch out for an end around play. Out flank our troops.

That's what this "cease-fire" was all about. All those 'civilians' fleeing from the fighting? Want to bet that many of them were his fighters doing a flanking movement?

While our forces are looking into Najaf and have their defenses in that direction, I expect that while we are focused on the town, there will be a scissor attack from both the front and the rear.

We are trying to fight an insurection with cold war strategies. They will pop up, strike at us, and melt away into the sands. Leaving us with dead and wounded troops, burned out tanks and crashed helos.

This will not end well.
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mikey_1962 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Good ...bring all the militants to the same place..
makes it easier...
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retread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. "makes it easier.." Makes what easier?
*
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. you know mikey, you really make me wonder...
if you are in the right place.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. that was very diplomatic
I have a hard knowing what to say when someone so easily advocates violent 'solutions' that will without any doubt lead to more hatred and violence. :-(
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. the poster has been demonstrating in many threads...
the same sort of blood lust one hears from, say Rush and Hannity. You are right, I was being diplomatic, that is because I did not want any demerits from Skinner. :)
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. His many threads are so much bullshit
I've watched his antics for a while-- not funny , not cute, not even clever.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. never answers when challenged either....
Edited on Wed Apr-14-04 03:41 PM by leftchick
<Poof> disappears!
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. Mikeys now gone ------ tombstoned
He'll be back I'm sure under another handle
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. ...for them to bring it on?
yeah, I expect it does make it easier. Makes peace a whole fucking lot harder though.

V
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. How will they 'gird' selves to invade a holy city to confront a cleric?
Garlic, wooden stakes, silver bullets? They certainly can't rely on sunlight, since they don't want to have their actions see the light of day in the press.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. And, in fact, we've seen very little
about this today. Seeing this thread right after it was posted, I was overcome by a feeling of dread... Checked back frequently for developments- ZIPPO! Just silly bad breathed mouth foaming nonsense. Well, at least the thread was kicked. ;-) Then Auntie Luddite actually googled looking for info herself. (You kids are SO MUCH sharper and quicker than I... LOVE TO ALL OF YOU for keeping me properly informed, you ALWAYS indulge my thirst for info). AND... ZIPPO!!! Fluff, puff, NOTHING of substance.

WTF IS GOING ON THERE? The match is WAY TOO CLOSE to the kerosene for my liking...
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I was wondering the same thing
and the silence makes me all the more nervous.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Yup.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. I'm thinking it's in the nature of a demonstration.
In other words bullshit intended to back up negotiations.
The marines in Fallujah have been threatening to kill everything
in their path for going on two weeks now, but near as I can tell
they have been in defensive positions mostly fighting off attacks
and calling in air support. Every time they go into town they get
kicked out in short order.

I don't see why 2500 is going to be any more adequate militarily
speaking at Najaf.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. I think that means unzipping the black bags they're marching into
just a hunch.. :shrug:
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
21. If the United States kills al-Sadr...
game over.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Und YUP!
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. There are some
Who can't wait to waste him.
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CabalBuster Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
34. I wonder on the repercusions worldwide
that an attack on the most holy city for Shiites (Najaf) would have on other Shiites say for example in Iran?
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-04 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. 1 Man, 150 Million Potential Enemies
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0414-08.htm

Published on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 by the Long Island, NY Newsday

1 Man, 150 Million Potential Enemies
by Mohamad Bazzi

BAGHDAD, Iraq - If U.S. forces arrest or kill Shia Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, the reverberations will be felt far beyond Iraq.

Al-Sadr could become the newest martyr for Shia from Lebanon to Pakistan, scholars say. And if U.S. troops have a bloody confrontation with al-Sadr's militia in the holy city of Najaf, it could set the United States toward a collision with the world's 150 million Shia Muslims.

U.S. forces were massing yesterday around Najaf, about 100 miles south of Baghdad, raising the prospect of a battle near the Imam Ali Mosque, Shiism's holiest site. The gold-domed mosque lies in the center of Najaf, and al-Sadr has taken refuge there. About 2,500 U.S. troops gathered outside Najaf and set up roadblocks around the city to prevent al-Sadr's militia from leaving.

"We see a significant threat in the vicinity of Najaf by the name of Muqtada al-Sadr and his militia," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the U.S. military's deputy director of operations in Iraq, told reporters. "We will get the forces to the place, at the time when it is necessary, to go after him and his militia to end this violence. It is that simple."

'A very dangerous moment'

Iraqi politicians and representatives of the country's four most senior Shia clerics rushed to defuse the situation. Al-Sadr's followers have fought with occupation forces in Baghdad and southern Iraq for 10 days, but their revolt has not yet spread to most segments of Iraq's Shia majority. By arresting or killing al-Sadr, analysts say, the rebellion could expand to the rest of the Shia community, which makes up 60 percent of Iraq's 24 million people.

..more..
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