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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:19 PM
Original message
Osama bin Laden mission agreed in secret 10 years ago by US and Pakistan
Edited on Mon May-09-11 02:22 PM by Quixote1818
Source: UK Guardian

The US and Pakistan struck a secret deal almost a decade ago permitting a US operation against Osama bin Laden on Pakistani soil similar to last week's raid that killed the al-Qaida leader, the Guardian has learned.

The deal was struck between the military leader General Pervez Musharraf and President George Bush after Bin Laden escaped US forces in the mountains of Tora Bora in late 2001, according to serving and retired Pakistani and US officials.

Under its terms, Pakistan would allow US forces to conduct a unilateral raid inside Pakistan in search of Bin Laden, his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and the al-Qaida No3. Afterwards, both sides agreed, Pakistan would vociferously protest the incursion.

"There was an agreement between Bush and Musharraf that if we knew where Osama was, we were going to come and get him," said a former senior US official with knowledge of counterterrorism operations. "The Pakistanis would put up a hue and cry, but they wouldn't stop us."

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/09/osama-bin-l...



This is what I suspected all along.
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ummmm ... ok
:shrug:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. Scahill reported it as a deal McChrystal made with Pakistan.
He said it again on Amy's show last Monday:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/2/jeremy_scahill_on_...
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #25
84. Thanks for the link.
There is a link to some interesting comments by Noam Chomsky.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. So, much of the news is in fact theater
it's really hard to know how much to believe about any news relating to matters of war and terrorism
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FarPoint Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. What we do know, is Bin Laden has been in that house
for at least 6 years....in Pakistan...it's even above ground and the biggest house in town...so...I kinda think we have been used....lots of lost American lives in an Afghanistan War...for a charade.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
49. actually, I wouldn't say we definitely know that
there are abundant reasons to doubt the official story
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. but not all of the official story but
parts of it. Like we can do a helicopter raid at location next to a military base. They scramble F16s and we spend 40 mins on the ground and more in the air flying out. That part seems like a deal was in place.
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
47. Pakistan is riding a thin line on this stuff
They have a very divided population with possibly a majority in support of the Taliban. Basically they're on the verge of a civil war. They have to be seen as fighting terrorism, they have bombings there basically every Friday, but at the same time they can't be seen as an ally or client state of the U.S., because the population hates us, due either to religious indoctrination or our tendency to blow people up over in those parts of the world.

Add in the fact that the Pakistani military loves the money that's coming in and have a vested interest in continuing to fight, but never winning, the War on Terror, and you get a very complicated situation and yes, lots of political theatre. I know a family that live in Pakistan, and the word on the street there is that the fight against terrorism itself is a complete farce... that both the Taliban and the Pakistani military will go out and just shoot at the ground for the cameras, then maybe go have a beer afterward. OK, probably not a beer, but you know what I mean.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. agreed
it's a complicated situation, to be sure
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. So, the incursion part was secretly legal, but publicly Pak. claims it wasn't? Bad deal for both.

It leaves the U.S. looking like it's still conducting a lawless, borderless global war, ala the Bush Doctrine. And it leaves Pakistan open to U.S. criticism for not cooperating in the search for OBL.

Why? Is it really that important to Pakistan that it not appear to be cooperating with the U.S., even as to OBL, whose significance has been fading sharply for years?
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. To burnish street cred?
:shrug:
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Whose? Pakistan looks clueless; the U.S. looks reckless. Dumb lie, if that's what it is.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. For many years, this has always been the method which 3rd World governments have used
to burnish street cred with their own citizens - take the $$ quietly from the US and don't cross the US, but in exchange, your citizens must be able to denounce 'the imperialist US', and you must be able to save face by protesting at the UN, yadda yadda.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. This makes no sense...
This sounds fishy! If this was true then how did Osama get to that house inside a military regulated area? This is BS...The US acted alone because even with the drone strikes we had been noticing targets moving at the last minute after alerting the Pakistanis of this strike.

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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. I would think that Pakistan publicly dragging its feet in regards to
"Why? Is it really that important to Pakistan that it not appear to be cooperating with the U.S..."

I would think that Pakistan publicly dragging its feet in regards to U.S. interests would be a good idea vis-a-vis the general population-- it's got the second largest Muslim population in the world, and the second largest Shia population in the world.

Pakistani cooperation with ten U.S. would most likely be seen as tacit endorsement of US policies, something I don't think the Pakistani Shia population is very keen on.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
41. They want OBL gone and were probably getting something from us
but publicly they don't want to be seen as too pro-US and inflame their more radical population.

Saying one thing in public and doing another thing in private is what governments do.

It makes sense.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. So if this was merely kabuki, then it appears the government was NOT protecting him.
And in fact, all parties behaved consistent with a script which was provided over ten years ago.

Which is not to say Obama doesn't deserve credit for this - he deserves all the credit he's received.

It is to say that there are some who are clearly naive when it comes to the game of politics.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It means
both administrations deserve credit like it or not. That's life.
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rainlillie Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Bush doesn't deserve credit for Bin Laden's demise
He didn't give the orders for the Seals to go in and get Bin Laden, end of story. I also have a problem believing anything that has been put out by anyone associated with the corrupt Bush administration.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
53. The Bush admin (Cheney) shut down the search in 2005
and if the deal story is true, and I think some version of it is, then Obama is just changing to a new shell game.

It was all like 'okay American public, which country is OBL hiding in ?' $1 tril to look in Afgahnistan, $1 tril to look in Iraq... 'nope you lose, the answer waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas ...Pakistan.'

Okay, next game....Libya
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. I can just hear that conversation.
"Yes, President Obama, how are you doing?"
"I'm just fine, Mr. President, but there's one little thing. We just confirmed that bin Laden is living in Abattabad."
"Just confirmed? What do you mean? We told you about that five years ago!"
"You did? Why that son-of-a-gun. Well, never mind that, I'll deal with him later. I just wanted to let you know we're coming in after him."
"Sure, sure, whenever you like. But, just keep it to yourselves - there's some here who might pass it along to you-know-who."
"Of course."
"You understand I will have to protest - but we'll keep things from getting out of hand."
"Sure, I appreciate it. Well, gotta go. The gang's all meeting downstairs to watch it on a live broadcast."
"OK. Give my regards to Michelle."
"I'll do that. Bye bye."
(click)
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. You have missed the whole point of the agreement. "Unilateral".
That means, we don't tell them. Kind of ruins the humor.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. If they previously agreed to it, it is 'unilateral' not unilateral.
Which is the point of the 'humor'.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
89. You write of the Pakistani government as if it is some monolith, acting
Edited on Sat May-14-11 02:26 PM by coalition_unwilling
in unison. On the contrary, the historical record and reports of most on-the-ground observers indicate that the Pakistani government is rife with factionalism.

Musharraf's puppet regime cut the deal with the Boy King's Junta. But neither puppet nor boy king had or has much legitimacy, imho, in the eyes of their respective populations. So to report breathlessly this 'agreement' like it actually has any significance today is, in my mind, stretching matters quite a bit.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. I've suspected something like this.
Then again, this is all from anonymous sources, so who knows what the truth is? :shrug:
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ladywnch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. so you're gonna tell us that Bush could've taken OBL out and claimed the credit
but chose NOT TO? The greatest attention whore to ever sit in the WH who could have had a real 'mission accomplished' moment chose to pass on it? I'm not buyin it. Jr. would have taken out OBL and had a nationwide tour with the corpse telling everyone how HE single handedly lead the mission and fired the fatal shot his self.
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rainlillie Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. LOL! So true. Besides that Cheney and his rotten spawn would have
Edited on Mon May-09-11 03:05 PM by rainlillie
mentioned it while being interviewed on Faux News. It's a shame some are still trying to find away to diminish something that Obama accomplished.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Yeah, especially in the last few weeks before Obama won the election
hell, at that time, most of us figured bin Laden was already dead and we expected he was being carefully thawed out to prop up the McCain/Palin farce

This is some plant story to make Pakistan and Shrub look better
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Iliyah Donating Member (828 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. OR BR_Parkway
Obama was smart enough to already know about the agreement between the Bushies and Pakistan, thats why he said he wouldn't hesitate to go into Pakistan to get OBL. I can see McCain and of course Palin not doing their homework.
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Iliyah Donating Member (828 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. The bushies
aka chenney, etc. needed a boogeyman to keep us in fear. The gopers spew fear all the time thats how they win elections. They claim they are the ONLY party that can keep America safe which is totally bullshit but you have the corporate media spewing the same talking points as the gopers. Thats how they won in 2010 lower house. What did the corporate media do for two years. Horrible misinformed things on HCR. Kept reporting everthing that the gopers were saying about creating jobs. Said nothing about union busting, et al.,

That said, yea, I see why they (the bushies) did not continue to go after OBL.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Exactly. He would have found it impossible to resist. Impossible.
Especially after he bungled so many things, so badly, like the hideous hurricane and flood in New Orleans.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. Bush would have been ecstatic if US forces had killed Bin Laden on his watch
I'm sure he would have jumped at the opportunity, especially before the 2004 election. My guess is that, for whatever reason, the good intel they would have needed just wasn't there at the time.

As big a deal as this is now, it would have been an even bigger deal last decade with 9/11 and Bin Laden fresher in the public mind.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
34. EXACTLY! This is pure BS!
America had already stopped alerting Pakistan to drone strikes because of the fact someone was alerting the targets at the last minute to move. I do not think Pakistan had any idea until after the mission was done.

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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. I don't buy it for a moment either. He could have done this just before the 2006
elections and probably spared the Republicans a number of the losses they suffered.
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. bush and the OBL family were friends and business partners...
he wasn't going to kill that golden goose.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
52. Bush trod pretty close to treason a few times during his reign of terror
This seems to be another such incident.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
54. no, OBL was the official reason we were in Afghanistan
no OBL, no Afghan war.

Btw, with OBL gone we will start hearing about Pottery Barn rules again.
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FarPoint Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. Pakistan knew where Bin Laden was since 2006...
if not where all along....I don't think the agreement was honorable...more of a smoke screen for both Bush and Pakistan leaders.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Precisely. It's sort of like finding the ultimate cure for tooth
decay would put dentists out of work -- to say nothing about all the people who manufacture equipment for dentists.

Yet forgoing sugar will reduce cavities to an unbelievable extent but that fact is never mentioned much in our popular media. Meanwhile the candy manufacturers thrive no matter how bad the economy.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. And they started notifying us shortly after.
Jeremy Scahill reported that this was McChystal's deal with Pakistan and he reiterated it on Democracy Now! the day after the execution.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. I don't think that is at all clear at this point
Maybe they did notify the US years ago, but I have my doubts. Just because Jeremy Scahill said it doesn't mean you can take it to the bank.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #32
46. There was a link around here that I can't find to save my life
and it gave the year that the Paks started ringing us up. It wasn't one of Scahill's reports, it was someone else.

It's also been known for years that when Kandahar fell, Omar and his people went to Pakistan, Ahmed Rashid reported that. None of this is a very big surprise to anyone who has been following these individuals.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #46
55. Plenty of people have always assumed there were a lot of 'wanted men' in Pakistan
But an assumption is not the same as a tip-off from the ISI or whomever. I have my doubts as to whether US intelligence was tipped off by Pakistani officials/operatives. Maybe they were, but I wouldn't be surprised if the US never received anything solid on OBL's location from the Pakistanis.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. That's true. Knowing someone is in a general area
isn't the same as knowing where they are. I was shocked when Rashid reported that Omar was in Quetta (I think it was). After all those "smoking them out of their holes" business. Of course, BushCo wasn't going to touch them.
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
21. Attempt #826 to shift credit to Bush
Unrec
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. It doesn't shift credit to Bush as all
It just shows Pakistan is full of shit by saying Obama acted inappropriately. Pakistan wanted their cake (our cash) and to be able to eat the cake too, by denying they made a deal with us to keep their people happy. Any president would have tried to make that agreement but the bottom line is Bush didn't take advantage of the agreement and Obama did.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
58. It doesn't. It shows Bush did nothing when he could have done something. n/t
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
27. But actually....
None of this matters because President Obama was on double-secret probation and that would offset this secret deal by a factor of negative 1.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
29. Look how carefully phrased that one sentence is:
"There was an agreement between Bush and Musharraf that if we knew where Osama was, we were going to come and get him," said a former senior US official with knowledge of counterterrorism operations.

Could have been a Post-it note on Condoleeza Rice's desk. Because if we stopped looking for Osama bin Laden, as it appears we did, then we wouldn't be able to go get him, now would we?

In the meantime they could keep a nice friendly eye on the fellow, down the street from the Pakistani version of West Point, and Osama bin Laden could come out and campaign for the Republican Party every couple of years.

Nice arrangement, no?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. You're likely very close to the real arrangement, as opposed to the PR.
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. Correctamundo!
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
35. Who was this "Former US Official"??
This sounds like BS. The US acted alone because we know Pakistan could not be trusted. This has become clear with the drone strikes in which we were working together on until some targets were being alerted at the last minute. And if this was the case why didn't Bush take all the glory? Why was Osama living in a military regulated & guarded area? This story is based on one unnamed former US Official?

I call BS!
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
38. It is amazing how these stories emerge after the fact
:rofl:
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
40. Bottomline, the muthafucka is dead
and it happened on Obama's watch. So looking for credence through some Chrystal
ball is not going to change a thing. What's done is done.
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
42. K for Compare with Dupe
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
43. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL THREAD!
Mods?
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Hello?
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
44. Bullshit. I'm not buyin'. nt
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
48. Is this a form of DU brinksmanship?
:shrug:
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
56. Fuck Pockiston
:nuke:
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #56
91. Why the, um, alternate spelling?
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
59. Osama bin Laden mission agreed in secret 10 years ago by US and Pakistan
Source: The Guardian

The US and Pakistan struck a secret deal almost a decade ago permitting a US operation against Osama bin Laden on Pakistani soil similar to last week's raid that killed the al-Qaida leader, the Guardian has learned.

The deal was struck between the military leader General Pervez Musharraf and President George Bush after Bin Laden escaped US forces in the mountains of Tora Bora in late 2001, according to serving and retired Pakistani and US officials.

Under its terms, Pakistan would allow US forces to conduct a unilateral raid inside Pakistan in search of Bin Laden, his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and the al-Qaida No3. Afterwards, both sides agreed, Pakistan would vociferously protest the incursion.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/09/osama-bin-l...



So, Pakistan agreed to allow the US to conduct unilateral campaigns inside Pakistan in order to capture bin Laden, after which Pakistan would protest the incursion?

Bush and Cheney need to be asked about this...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Sounds like normal diplomacy to me.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #60
75. Yah, par for the course.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Duplicate LBN from yesterday
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Keith Bee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Yep
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TimLighter Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. Bush and Cheney need to be asked what?
Seems logical when Pakistan has a portion of their population that are foaming at the mouth 7'th century nut cases they would make such an agreement.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Well, why they didn't go into Tora Bora...
...and get Osama, instead of stopping short and letting him go.

I've the excuse was "we" (i.e., Bush and Cheney) waited for Pakistan to capture him, but they failed to do so, and Osama got away.

So why if we had this agreement did we not just do the job ourselves?
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TimLighter Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Tora Bora is in Afganistan
we didn't need a "deal" with the Paki's.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Ah, yes...I
Edited on Tue May-10-11 10:06 AM by KansDem
Thanks :hi:

on edit: However there is this bit of information:
Fury's accountA former Delta Force commander, using the pen name "Dalton Fury", who was present at Tora Bora has written that bin Laden escaped into Pakistan on or around December 16, 2001. Fury gives three reasons for why he believes bin Laden was able to escape: (1) the US mistakenly thought that Pakistan was effectively guarding the border area, (2) NATO allies refused to allow the use of air-dropped GATOR mines, which would have helped seal bin Laden and his forces inside the Tora Bora area, and (3) over-reliance on native Afghan military forces as the main force deployed against bin Laden and his fighters. Fury states that the Afghan forces would usually leave the battlefield in the evenings to break their Ramadan fasts, thereby allowing the al-Qaeda forces a chance to regroup, reposition, or escape.<6>

Fury, in an interview on 60 Minutes, stated that his Delta Force team and CIA Paramilitary Officers traveled to Tora Bora after the CIA pinpointed bin Laden's location in that area. Fury's team proposed an operation in which they would assault bin Laden's suspected position from the rear, over the 14,000 foot high mountain separating Tora Bora from Pakistan. But, Fury's proposal was denied by unidentified officials at higher headquarters for unknown reasons. Fury then proposed the dropping of GATOR mines in the passes leading away from Tora Bora, but this was also denied. Forced to approach the al-Qaeda forces from the front, at one point Fury reports that his team was within 2,000 meters of bin Laden's suspected position, but withdrew because of uncertainty over the number of al-Qaeda fighters guarding bin Laden and a lack of support from allied Afghan troops.<7>

A short time later, the Afghan military forces declared a cease fire with al-Qaeda. When Fury's team prepared to advance again on the al-Qaeda forces anyway, Afghan soldiers drew their weapons on the US soldiers. After 12 hours of negotiations, the Afghans stood down, but this had allowed bin Laden and his bodyguards time to relocate. Fury reports that bin Laden, in his radio calls which began in the afternoon of December 13, was clearly under duress, reportedly saying to his fighters, "the time is now, arm your women and children against the infidel". Then, after a few hours of enduring massive and accurate aerial bombing, he broke radio silence again to say "Our prayers were not answered. Times are dire and bad. We did not get support from the apostate nations who call themselves our Muslim brothers. Things might have been different". Fury describes that Bin Laden's final words to his fighters on that night were "I'm sorry for getting you involved in this battle, if you can no longer resist, you may surrender with my blessing".<8>

A short time later, what was believed to be bin Laden and his bodyguards were observed entering a cave. Fury's team called down several bombing attacks on the cave, and believed that they had killed bin Laden. Six months later, US and Canadian forces returned and checked several caves in the area, finding remains of al-Qaeda fighters, but not of bin Laden. Fury believes that bin Laden was injured in the shoulder by shrapnel during the bombing of the cave, but was then hidden, given medical care, and assisted out of the area into Pakistan by sympathetic local Afghans.<7>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tora_Bora

I suppose I still wondering why, if we wanted Osama "Dead or Alive," that we just didn't finish the job at Tora Bora instead of expecting Pakistan to do it, especially now with the revelation that we had a secret pact with them...
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #66
78. ??? -- the subject should have read, "Ah, yes...I 'stan' corrected."
Not sure what happened... :shrug:
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #64
77. We were in Tora Bora. Speculation was that Osama dressed in a burka and eluded us
because we were too respectful of supposedly religious issues to make anyone in a burka show her (or his) face. I'm sure there are many other stories as well.

Women who are well over 6 feet tall are really scarce in that part of the world, so I doubt the one I've related.

Point is, we were in Tora Bora and somehow he eluded us.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. This Sounds Made Up To Me In Order To Take The Spotlight Away From Obama......
and lay the credit on BushCo. I don't believe this one bit. This is just take a situation like this raid and create a story around it in order to give credit to BushCo. And we're supposed to believe this? A deal between Musharraf and Bush? Seems to me this is a convenient story to protect both of these guys. I wonder what the real deal was that they struck? Probably for Pakistan to shelter and protect OBL so that BushCo could keep the American public in fear and trot him out when they needed him to continue the fear.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
68. of course
there is no way in hell Obama would have dared even threaten during his campaign debates, he'd go into Pakistan (if Bin Laden's trail led him there) without an agreement between United States and Pakistan already in place.


The Amerikan Korporate Govt and it's Ministery of Propaganda may feign surprise, but they do so as part of the grand charade this entire affair is and has always been.

This episode was about closing the books or perhaps mereley a long costly chapter.

But the American citzenry are too busy behaving as mindless consumers instead of behaving as informed citzens or at least critical thinkers, which is how the Korporate Govt gets away with these pathetically transparent lies.

Obama is simply carrying out his orders, handed to him by his bosses (who ain't us).

This 10 year old agreement isn't really news except to those who aren't paying attention anyway.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #68
76. so Obama was told about this secret agreement when he was just a candidate?
What other flights of fantasy would you like to share. Oh wait, I read the rest of your post. No need to add anything.
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2banon Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. You don't think then Senator Obama wasn't made privy to State Intel?
Why do you think Presidential Candidate Kerry said the very same thing during the 2004 campaign?
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octothorpe Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #82
85. Don't you mean Kandidate Kerry?
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
69. bush, cheney never acted to get bin-Laden...
now that he's dead, they want to claim credit. That's like me expecting to claim credit for the building of the Interstate system after Eisenhower pushed for it... :eyes:

The only thing bush/cheney can claim credit for is the destruction of the financial base of the nation...they are piglets at the trough, and deserve nothing but scorn and derision.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. I totally agree! This smells of BS!
This is all from an unnamed "former US Official" correct? If so, then this is pure Bush Co. BS!!!!!
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
70. Of course, but the specific details of precisely how it was going to happen probably had to
be negotiated in the lead-up to last week.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
72. I call BS!!
The ONLY source is an unnamed "former US Official"...Can you say BUSH CO.!!!!!
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
73. I believe if we look hard enough we will find out that Ronnie Raygun
was really responsible for Bin Laden's death. :sarcasm:
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
74. If there was such a deal then why didn't Bush go after bin Laden?
If there was such a deal would it carry over from one administration to the next?

How does an agreement with a previous military leader/prime minister hold together when Pervez Musharraf is no longer the ruling leader or military power?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. Supposedly, no one knew where in Pakistan to look for Bin Laden until his courier made that call.
Edited on Tue May-10-11 12:44 PM by No Elephants
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
80. What difference does this tidbit make, true or not?
Edited on Tue May-10-11 01:03 PM by No Elephants
All it does is make Pakistan look either better or worse, depending on how you viewed Pakistan's protests.

I don't think it makes Bush look better--only underscores that he failed for ten years to get Bin Laden. And, if true, makes Bush look even worse because there was no barrier to his entering Pakistan to nail Bin Laden.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. "...Bush look even worse because there was no barrier to his entering Pakistan to nail Bin Laden."
Edited on Tue May-10-11 05:14 PM by KansDem
Precisely my point. We need to ask Bush and his whole team about why, if the US had a secret agreement with Pakistan to get Osama after which Pakistan would put up some token protest, didn't they get him?

Didn't Pakistan "protest" about Obama's successful mission? So was this "protest" part of the secret pack made with Bush?

Check out this DU thread from last month:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Pakistan is a "sovereign nation," but now we know the US has had this secret deal, essentially ignoring their sovereignty in exchange for protest rights, with them for ten years...

on edit:

SUMMARY: In his recent interview with President Bush, Wolf Blitzer did not challenge Bush on his statement that he "bsolutely" would give the order to pursue Osama bin Laden in Pakistan. In a previous press conference, Bush had asserted that the United States could not send troops into Pakistan to hunt for bin Laden unless it was "invited" to do so, because Pakistan is a "sovereign nation."

--more--
http://mediamatters.org/research/200609200010

Hey, Bush! You were invited! You did nothing!
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octothorpe Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #80
86. It also gets of the argument that Obama/US illegally entered Pakistan without permission.
I agree that it doesn't help Bush at all. They had all those years to find him but allowed themselves to get distracted in Iraq and other shit.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
83. kick
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
87. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.
 
and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
88. So how come nothing ever came of it??
another example of republicans need to put their reckless ideology before responsibility. OBL and the fake war on terror is the only thing that kept the shrubCo regime in power. They let OBL run free just so shrub could get reelected on 04; shrubCo should be tried for crimes against humanity and imprisoned for the rest of his life, along with the rest of that worthless administration.
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
90. Well I just don't know what to make of it.
I don't get how others are so certain about everything.
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