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NYT: U.S. Revises Account of Pakistan Raid

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matt819 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:00 PM
Original message
NYT: U.S. Revises Account of Pakistan Raid
Source: New York Times

<Snip>

White House officials on Tuesday sought to correct the official account of the raid in Pakistan that ended in the killing of Osama bin Laden, saying that al Qaeda leader was not armed and that his wife was not killed.

The new Defense Department narrative released by the White House, and read out loud during the White House press briefing on Tuesday, said that one of Bin Ladens wives was shot in the leg as she charged members of the commando team on the third floor of the compound.

In the room with Bin Laden, a woman Bin Ladens wife rushed the U.S. assaulter and was shot in the leg but not killed, the brief statement said. Bin Laden was then shot and killed. He was not armed.

<Snip>

Read more: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/white-hou...



No comment, really. Just a shake of the head. Is nothing as it seems?
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because all is not known immediately.
There have to be debriefings.

The problem is that people rush to tell a story without knowing all of the facts.

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johnson542 Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Everyone wants to be on top of the story down to the second.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wonder how many more 'revisions' will be forthcoming.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Hell, each one can be an excuse for a new kegger!
:thumbsup:
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I'll drink to that!
:toast:
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Sonoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. Just yesterday, OBL was reported as having used her as a 'shield'.
Spinning Psy-Ops all over the page.

Sonoman
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Newest Reality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. That account implies that
they did not want to capture OBL.

Seeing how he was unarmed, they could have taken him down and brought him in. Regardless of the prejudice towards the accused, this would be considered an assassination, in that case.

Then, dump body in ocean? Hmmm.
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. Glad to see they are setting record straight, even if day or two after.
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Loge23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. What we have become.
I have no desire to wade into conspiracy theories about this incident. However, I have absolutely no reason to think that we are being told the truth about what happened - or ever will.
Perhaps even more perplexing than the nearly 10 year, by-way-of-Iraq, manhunt for this guy is the final chapter. He is dead - that I do believe. But the manner in which this story is being told - and covered for that matter - is all too indicative of what we have become since 9-11 (arguably since Jan. 2001).
We used to believe in the trust of our government - good, bad, or indifferent. That ship has clearly sailed.

Writing in the Miami Herald, Leonard Pitts had some pretty good observations about this:

"I think of you often, Sam. I think of you when I throw away bottled water and shuffle through airport security in stocking feet. I think of you when I see metal security barriers rise out the street in Washington, D.C., or concrete planters barricading federal buildings. I think of you when some lawmaker suggests we bomb Mecca or some state feels compelled to legislate against sharia law. I think of you when I see what my country has become.

You made us something we were not on Sept. 10. You made us afraid. You tapped that rich seam of paranoia and intolerance that has always lurked in the American psyche. You changed us for the worse."

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/02/2197905/leonard-p...
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. They can release the helmet cam footage.
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Iliyah Donating Member (828 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. K&R
Thank you for the read.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-04-11 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. I so disagree with Pitts. Osama was behind a heinous act. People are
largely responsible for their own emotions, including fear -- or heroism (e.g., first responders, people who enlisted).

He is--was--responsible for his role in 911. Each of us is responsible for how we reacted to 911, good, bad or indifferent.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. The famous picture of Obama's team looking at a screen...
...what were they looking at?

Hillary, in particular, seems almost overcome.

Now, if they saw the raid, why did they mis-report it?

If they didn't see it ... what were they trying to do by showing us that picture?
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. They did not see the actual combat according...
Leon Panetta...I think Clinton's reaction was probably as the helicopter was going down, maybe?

However, I praise this administration for updating the info that only they know so why would they change their original story unless they were trying to be as forthcoming as possible?

I see no reason for Conspiracies here. But that is just me.
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chowder66 Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Make that two.
No conspiracies.

I could have saved some time if I just clicked refresh before I posted below. Grrr.

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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. This is my very same thought.
The photos were stark and rapt in attention and facial expression and body language.

The raid was analygous to Carter and the failed embassy hostage rescue in Iran.

The technology is there for each Seal to have a helmet-live cam.

I don't know the identitiy of everyone in those photos but recognize about half.

I am going forward that this was OBL and the action was well planned and monitored and the data is still being distilled.

Brennan and others may have spoken out of turn. There are articles sourced in China and elsewhere that are gross dis-information.

Is the USA and DoD capable of disinfo? Yes.

The civilian government in Pakistan has a problem in at least the ISI and military.

I believe most Muslims and individual humans in general want life liberty and happiness for their family and associates.

People do not want war, violence, need, nor lack of meaning regardless except for a minority, many sociopath (and some very "successful")

Read Scott Peck's "People of the Lie".

POTUS Obama said in his campaign rhetoric about engaging Pakistan and he did just that and for that I give credit.

I did not agree with OTUS Obama during nor since the campaign in Pakistan, and even now worry that the action will have blowback and bring to the surface serious issues with Pakistsan.

However, POTUS Obama has been right on Pakistan and I was wrong.

We need to turn from terrorism and war to politics and get the troops home from Afghanistan.

Pakistan has a problem with religious ideologues. So does the USA.

I hope for the best.

The photos expressed POTUS Obama's (and HRC's) seriousness of the risk in the raid.
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trud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Hillary
by the way, Hill must be glad she is Secy of State, Not boring, huh?
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Photo opportunity.
Might as well make it look good. :sarcasm:
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-04-11 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. May the photographer clicked the pict when she was yawning.nt
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trud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. They couldn't wait
to get all the details straight, the web knew bin Laden was dead before Obama's press conference.

I am hoping we see the helmet cam footage, that would be something!
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
17. sought to correct the official account ?
Sure creates faith in official accounts.
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chowder66 Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
19. Here goes....
After going to http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/05/02/p...

It looks to me that that it was one of OBL's wives and they were not sure if she was put into a position or put herself into a position that resulted in the words "human shield". It has become clear now that it was not one of his wives and they have stepped back from human shield reference. I have no problem with that. They corrected it as they came to know more and he prefaced it by saying "as I understand it". That is not a statement of fact.

Also mentioned; more information yet to come (20 hours worth). Reading his comments carefully about those watching the operation it seems that they were not seeing every little thing that was going on. They were being updated in real-time along with video feed and by the end of the operation they were still waiting to find out if they indeed got OBL. I think they had a certain amount of access but probably did not know exactly what it was that they were seeing. It was 12:30am, probably dark with limited camera views considering that the operation was probably very chaotic. I have no clue if there was more than one person with a helmet cam which could account for even more chaotic viewing. Were they all fitted for helmet cams? If not was the person who shot OBL fitted with one? What if he wasn't? Was one person assigned the task to capture or kill OBL or was it tasked to several or all of them? Who would you know to follow if they were all wearing cams? No one seemed to know for sure that OBL was really even in there. Hence the gutsy decision many are refering to. Plus they were taking on fire from others inside the compound.

"But it was clearly very tense, a lot of people holding their breath. And there was a fair degree of silence as it progressed, as we would get the updates. And when we finally were informed that those individuals who were able to go in that compound and found the individual that they believe was bin Laden, there was a tremendous sigh of relief that what we believed and who we believed was in that compound actually was in that compound and was found. And the President was relieved once we had our people and those remains off target."

There is still some unanswered questions about OBL's resistance. It could be that OBL was not armed but reaching for something or ordering someone to shoot or even rushed a Seal to ensure that he was not captured alive. I'm sure there may be more examples I'm not thinking of.

They don't have everything out yet and I have never really seen many huge stories (if any) that ever get it right the first few times. Several news agencies have all kinds of conflicting information. It will take some time for this to come together.

I am only offering an opinion based on this press briefing and a little imagination of what other things could reasonably have happened. I will wait and see with the rest of the world what else comes out over the course of the next few weeks or months.

I don't think any of this warrants any kind of coverup scenario. It is just humans trying to communicate quickly as information is being passed on. Poorly maybe, but passed onto the public nonetheless.


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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. "And when we finally were informed..."
Edited on Tue May-03-11 04:50 PM by Ghost Dog
"And when we finally were informed that those individuals who were able to go in that compound and found the individual that they believe was bin Laden, there was a tremendous sigh of relief that what we believed and who we believed was in that compound actually was in that compound and was found."

Awful lot of 'believing' going on there. Who was doing the 'informing'? Oh, and where is 'proof', please?
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chowder66 Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. At the time...all they had to go on was believing. Now not so much. As for proof?
Other than DNA and other identifiers. The long form death certificate will be released on the finale of Celebrity Apprentice.

:)
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-04-11 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
24. NYT: now says it was Col. Plumb in the Library with a wrench. nt
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-04-11 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. LOL!
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