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CNN investigation: Obama 'birther' claims have no merit

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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 10:57 PM
Original message
CNN investigation: Obama 'birther' claims have no merit
Source: CBS News

Was Barack Obama really born in America?

A new CNN investigation reveals what most analysts have been saying since the so-called "birther" controversy erupted during the 2008 presidential campaign: Obama was born in the state of Hawaii on August 4, 1961. Period.

-----

CNN investigators in Honolulu, however, found nothing to reinforce those doubts.

-----

Could Obama's 1961 birth announcement in the Honolulu Star Bulletin be a fake? Some conspiracy theorists say yes. Longtime Honolulu newspaper reporter Dan Nakaso says no.



Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/25/birthers.obama.h...



OK CNN - will you quit reporting everytime Trump opens his big mouth on this and tell him to go F' himself?
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Duh. Haven't we arrived at this conclusion over and over again?
I mean, its one thing to believe in a conspiracy where the evidence is scant, but strong

It's quite another to believe in a conspiracy where the evidence is nonexistant and made up
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Hokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think this was important to do
Cooper and CNN did a good job of detailing Trumps claims and debunking them point by point.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. I don't agree - Cooper let whacky Trump run on too long
with his crap.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Breaking: WATER IS WET
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. True...but that will never convince the "dryers"...
They'll continue insisting that water has never demonstrated proof that it is wet...and the squawking heads at Faux Noise will continue to claim they're right. :eyes:

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Swagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. OK that's settled-now Michele Bachman & Sarah Palin-prove you
Edited on Mon Apr-25-11 11:16 PM by Swagman
were born in the USA because I don't think you were and if I say that then it's up to you to prove it
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. Good job, CNN.
I can't wait for more great investigative reporting on such equally important topics as The Illuminati, Lizard Replacement, and Shadow People from The Most Trusted Name in News.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. But who is funding the brain implanted receivers channelling CNN into people's minds?

You see... it all makes sense now.
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. You and I both know it's the Bilderberg Group. nt
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Mosaic Donating Member (851 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. This nonsense started with McCain
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 01:19 AM by Mosaic
Because John McCain was born in Panama, many online commenters noted he wasn't an american citizen. The birther crap is the thugs revenge for "insulting" their candidate.

Dismiss it as their childish revenge, that is what it is.
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Afraid not.
Birthers began with a vicious anti-Semite named Andy Martin, who's had so many frivolous lawsuits tossed, he's banned from federal courtrooms.
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
9. unfortunately since so many republicans believe this BS it's necessary
an ignorant populace forces the media to stoop this low and say "enough!" Misinformation must be immediately countered whatever it takes.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. And in other breaking news...
... CNN investigators discover that there isn't an actual egg-laying Easter Bunny! More startling revelations after this message from our sponsors.
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plumbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. No EASTER BUNNY!!??!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
13. Dumbass Klan Fuckers won't like that. -nt
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
15. Media seems to love this issue, maybe because they can seem even-handed
on an issue that really means nothing.

Hey, "rational" media, how about standing up for the truth when someone says OASDI is causing the deficit?


Anyone? Anyone?
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Some thoughts
Pragmatism, school of philosophy, dominant in the United States in the first quarter of the 20th century, based on the principle that the usefulness, workability, and practicality of ideas, policies, and proposals are the criteria of their merit. It stresses the priority of action over doctrine, of experience over fixed principles, and it holds that ideas borrow their meanings from their consequences and their truths from their verification. Thus, ideas are essentially instruments and plans of action.

Achieving results, i.e., getting things done in business and public affairs, is often said to be pragmatic. There is a harsher and more brutal connotation of the term in which any exercise of power in the successful pursuit of practical and specific objectives is called pragmatic. The character of American business and politics is often so described. In these cases pragmatic carries the stamp of justification: a policy is justified pragmatically if it is successful. The familiar and the academic conceptions have in common an opposition to invoking the authority of precedents or of abstract and ultimate principles. Thus, in law judicial decisions that have turned on the weighing of consequences and probable general welfare rather than on being deduced from precedents have been called pragmatic.

from:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/473717/pragma...
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Basically
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 10:39 AM by legin
It's almost irrelevant how 'true' the claims are, the test of them is 'will they fly' which they so obviously are.
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. So it really boils down to a question of technique
Somebody says "This assertion is true".

The problem then is how do I torpedo the above assertion in the most efficient manner possible.

Obviously the 'real truth' has a some part to play in the process, but there are other weapons such as character assassination which Trump could do with some.
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Trump has lent his authority to the birther claims
So it should be 'his authority' that suffers the most.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
16. I don't understand why birth certificate NOT released?
Maybe I don't get this, but it is my understanding that Obama has refused to release his birth certificate. Wouldn't doing so end this controversy? If so, why not do it?

(I'm not trolling, I barely follow this controversy, but I just don't understand why Obama doesn't simply release his birth certificate showing place of birth.)
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. sigh.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I read that, and my question stands
To be clear, I have no doubts whatsoever about Obama's birth being exactly as he describes it. We now have (in the CNN story) a relevant doctor who has seen the certificate confirming its contents.

So why not just release the original certificate and be done with it?

That's what I don't get. Sorry if it makes you sigh.
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
17. Conspiracy loons can't accept data that debunks their theory
They'll just widen the conspiracy.
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
20. I guess CNN has been co-opted too!
1!11M CERES!1! :eyes: :crazy: :eyes:
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
24. Very sneaky of CNN to keep the issue alive
while seeming to "dismiss" it
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Hokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. The strategy of finding Stig Waidelech was brilliant
Anyone who has bothered to check the facts knows that the only certificate that Hawaii has given out is the computer generated COLB. However, most of the voting populace has heard the BS meme pushed by Trump and WND that there is something deficient about the current form. This visually blew away that myth. Another useful piece of information was the certificate number on this certificate. It ends with 010920. This is almost 300 numbers later than Obama's and the Nordyke twins certificate numbers. Birthers have made a big deal out of the Nordyke twins having earlier numbers (010637 and 010638) than Obama's (010641) even though the Nordykes were born on August 5th. The Waildelich certificate differs enough that it is probable that the certificates were batched process for an entire week and processed in alphabetical order instead of exact chronological order as the Birthers have claimed. Another Birther myth busted.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I believe all that, but...
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 12:18 PM by Bragi
But I'm trying to understand why Obama doesn't just release his actual birth certificate, which according to eye witnesses who have seen it, apparently exists, and has exactly the info you'd expect on it.

So why not just release the actual document to stop this ridiculous controversy?
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Hokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. It wouldn't end it
Watch the show. He released the current official BC. That would be good in any court. Over half the birthers think Obama is ineligible because he had dual citizenship at birth so they will never be convinced.

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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Thanks. Help me out here...
You said he released "the current official BC". Fair enough.

But there is also an original BC in the files, and according to the CNN story, the original Obama BC is in the files, and the person that saw it says nothing was amiss with it.

So if Obama just released this damn BC, how would that not put an end to this pointless controversy?

You say the opponents would keep at it, but they'd then be forced to do so without their only piece of "evidence" -- which is the unreleased original.

Honestly, I wish this idiotic issue would go away, but I don't see that happening as long as Obama refuses to release the original BC document, and I don't get why he won't do so.
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Hokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I do not think it is as cut and dry to get the long form as CNN portrayed it
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 02:17 PM by Hokie
The CNN reporter said you could file the Hawaiian equivalent of a FOIA request (called an OIP request) and obtain one. Several Hawaiian officials including a spokesperson for the AG have said that all you can get since 2001 is the electronic form. Birthers have been trying to claim for two years that you can just walk in and get a copy of your long form yet only two have claimed to have done that. One is a Freeper named "Danae" who posted a copy last year. However, there is no date on it at all to show when the copy was made. She posted a copy of the receipt but it just says she got a certificate. Another Birther, Miki Booth from OK who ran for Congress and got trounced in the primary claims a friend of hers got one from Hawaii on March 15, 2011. The copy she posted showed a date but it was difficult to read and could have been "2001". Also, a copy was posted a few weeks before on the Birther BS site run by Sharon Rondeau called the Post and Email that had no date stamp at all. I think it was concocted by printing the image of the older long form on the back of a modern COLB with the date stamp but that is conjecture. Miki claimed 3 weeks ago to have ordered a "long form" for her son Alan but she has never posted anything either.

What we know is this:

  • The current official BC is the electronic form. It is valid for all legal purposes for which one needs a birth certificate and meets the federal guidelines for obtaining a passport. Hawaii switched to the electronic system as have most states for cost savings, accuracy, and convenience to the citizens needing a copy of their BC. Hawaii doesn't want this Birther bullshit to undermine the credibility of a system that works well and that they spent thousands to implement.
  • The "certification" vs "certificate" is just semantics. Hawaii revised the form in 2008 to read "certificate of live birth" instead of "certification of live birth". They have never said why. If Obama ordered one now it would say "certificate of live birth" just like the copy Stig obtained on CNN.
  • If one could obtain a long form it would not be a certified document.
  • Birthers have consistently claimed the COLB displayed on FactCheck is altered or forged so what makes anyone think they would accept another form?
  • A majority of Birthers have convinced themselves that a natural born citizen must have two citizen parents. There is nothing in law or history to support this but they believe it so no birth certificate will suffice anyway.
  • There is nothing on the long form about religion. We have seen copies from the 60's and the only additional information would be the name of the hospital (which is already known to be Kapi'olani) and the attending physician and the registrar.
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