U.S. Military Deaths in Iraq - 671 U.S. service members have died

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040413/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_us_deaths&cid=540&ncid=1480

As of Monday, April 12, 671 U.S. service members have died since the beginning of military operations in Iraq (news - web sites) last year, according to the Department of Defense (news - web sites). Of those, 477 died as a result of hostile action and 194 died of non-hostile causes. snip

Since May 1, when President Bush (news - web sites) declared that major combat operations in Iraq had ended, 533 U.S. soldiers have died — 368 as a result of hostile action and 165 of non-hostile causes, according to the military.

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[bobbieinok]

1. !!!!!! wasn't it 'just' 611 a week or so ago???????????

[freeforall]

13. I remember seeing it at 604

Right! But everything's under control.
<sarcasm/>

[mainer]

2. This site says 697 US deaths in Iraq so far

I just posted this on another board. This site lists each death by name and circumstances. Which source to believe?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

[Ilsa]

4. Omigosh. They have 90 for April.

I've never seen this site. Thanks, I'm bookmarking it.

[mainer]

6. Here's the page with each name listed for April. So sad.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties_apr04.htm

[ConcernedCanuk]

18. Gawwd, most of them are just kids!, 18 - 23 year olds!

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America's youth, dying for GW's vengeance and greed.


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[aint_no_life_nowhere]

27. 90 dead in 11 days is approaching Vietnam figures

when the Vietnam war really got cranked up. It is sickening to think of these 90 people dying for nothing.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

14. IMHO, don't believe either one...

...too many emails and letters from the combat zones and hospitals make one believe that we're being told about half of the actual numbers.

And then we have the fact that the NeoCons don't want anyone photographing the flag-draped caskets when they arrive in the U. S.

And very little is known about the number of soldiers that are not declared dead during combat, but die before they arrive at some hospital, or die soon after.

[jmcgowanjm]

16. yeah you're right

An Irish take on the situation.

The death toll among Iraqis in this week-long offensive is
now put at 750 (450 in Fallujah, 300 in Ramadi: Iraqi
Body Count)

http://irishantiwar.org/news/item.tcl?news_item_id=100768

[alcuno]

17. If you compare these to the lunaville site...

there are deaths listed as far back as April 1 that say the name has not been released because next of kin has not been notified. It's likely that they have repeat listings. Lunaville has it at 677 US deaths.

http://www.lunaville.org

[Ilsa]

3. 677 per Lunaville.

Lunaville and CNN are closer this evening in their count than they were this morning. CNN is at 674. Jeez. Our news agencies can't even keep a simple mathematical count that is in agreement with one another and the Pentagon.

[daleo]

5. Deaths from non-hostile causes, a demographic analysis

If you do a standard life table analysis, about 113 males out of 100,000 would be expected to die between the ages of 24 and 25, which is probably reflective of the mean for the military stationed there. For females, the number is about 38. So, given the sex ratio in the U.S. military, it would be reasonable to expect about 100 or so soldiers to have died from 'natural mortality' in this period of time. So, about half of the 194 who died of non-hostile causes have been indirectly killed by the war (I know that is awkward phrasing).

[Jackpine Radical]

8. Not so. This use of the actuarial tables is inappropriate

for at least two major reasons.

First, the tables are based on a random sample of individuals in that age group. The military people, on the other hand, have been selected on various mental and physical criteria. For instance, None of them are likely to have been sent there with known cancers or other life-threatening diseases, and they are in better general physical condition than the general population within their age group.

Second, the kids in Iraq are less likely to die of, say, drunk driving than their age peers at home.

All told, the actuarial table overstates their likelihood of dying of non-military-related causes.

[daleo]

25. Those are valid points

It was just meant to be a first order estimate - i.e. at least half of the non-combat deaths would not have happened outside of a combat zone. I suspect it is probably more like three quarters.

Your point about being selected for good physical and mental health is a good one. This may be countered by some extent by the likelihood that people who select a military career may be somewhat greater risk takers than those who don't.

I am not trying to minimize the significance of these deaths in Iraq, just wanted to get a feel for how much excess mortality could be attributed to their very presence in Iraq, since the pentagon insists on reporting these deaths separately.

A better analysis would require comparing the number of deaths in Iraq with an equivalent group of soldiers stateside. I don't suppose the pentagon is too keen on releasing the results of a study like that.

Of course the rate of injury and trauma would be orders of magnitude higher in the war zone than an equivalent group posted anywhere other than Iraq.

[kcwayne]

7. How many wounded have died?

Certainly there are some significant number of injured soldiers who have died in MASH units and hospitals which are never accounted for in the offically released number.

It would be a great service for someone to put up a memorial website for all of the dead, where the families could put up information and mementos, and open the site up to any soldier who not only was killed in battle, but died from injuries sustained in Iraq.

Another site for those lost in Afghanistan would be appropriate.

[shockingelk]

9. If you make it to a field hospital

Your chances of living are extraordinarily high - and if you make it from there to a military hospital, your chances of survival approach 100%.

[kcwayne]

11. I read an email from someone who was supposedly a nurse

in Germany who reported that there were numerous deaths on the ward, and that they were getting DOA's from severely wounded soldiers who had a pulse at the scene and were therefor not counted as dead.

Maybe it was bogus, I have no way of verifying. But with 2100 wounded that have not returned to duty, it is inconceivable that a percentage of them have not expired.

Casualties

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. I'd like to see some actual numbers on that. With the lethality...

...of modern weapons, including those that are improvised, I'd have to say that your guesses are a bit off the mark.

"Survival" is such a relative term. Of the people that are saved, how many will no longer lead meaningful lives? How many blinded, or brain-damaged, or missing parts of vital organs, or limbs...or all of the above?

[ConcernedCanuk]

15. Exactly, and how many now will live their lives full of hatred?

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Generations of hatred being generated against the United States.

And not just in Iraq. Other countries are watching.

The BFEE can't censor the rest of the world's media.

Also, the thousands of G.I.s and their families/friends that will bear emotinal scars to their graves.

Where is the upside in all of this?
:shrug:

[shockingelk]

19. Here's some general numbers

Died of Wounds "Includes died of wounds where wounding occurred in theater and death occurred elsewhere."

As of April 8, it shows "Total Hostile Deaths" at 450, 512 of which are "Died of Wounds".

http://web1.whs.osd.mil/mmid/casualty/OIF-Total.pdf

A few other PDFs: http://web1.whs.osd.mil/mmid/casualty/castop.htm

When you think about a soldier wearing a kevlar vest to protect internal organs, injuries are going to tend to result in immediate death (shot to head, whole body completely blown to bits) or not be life threatening (wounded extremity).

[jmcgowanjm]

20. A quarterback gets hurt, you give 'em time off.

According to military officials, roughly 20 percent of the
wounds suffered by the troops in Iraq have been
severe brain injuries.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/10/16/brain_injuries_take_toll_on_us_soldiers/

[ConcernedCanuk]

10. Another site is infoshout.com - charts of the wounded as well

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And a Snapshot from the Bush's past:



http://www.infoshout.com/factoid.htm

[riverwalker]

21. remember the first fatality?

the father crying and holding up his sons photo. He said to the camera : "take a good look George Bush. You killed my only son. My only son." Of course everyone jumped on his case for not being "patriotic" and not being "polite" to the prez. The whole country was just starting to enjoy this war, by golly, and now this guy is gonna spoil it by crying about his son. That was the mood back then, and about the lowest point this country has ever reached. I thought, now it begins. How many more will die?

[saigon68]

22. U.S. Army Chief Warrant Officer Wesley Fortenberry

U.S. Army Chief Warrant Officer Wesley Fortenberry of Spurger, Texas, is seen in this undated family photo. Fortenberry, died Sunday, April 11. 2004, with another AH-64 Apache helicopter crewman when insurgents west of Baghdad shot down their aircraft, which was protecting a fuel convoy headed toward the violence-racked city of Fallujah. (AP Photo/courtesy of Fortenberry Family via Beaumont Enterprise)


RIP-----------saigon

[saigon68]

23. Lance Cpl. Aric J. Barr, 22

The flag draped coffin of Lance Cpl. Aric J. Barr, 22, a Marine rifleman killed in combat April 2, 2004, in Iraq (news - web sites), is carried out of St. Stephen Church by a Marine Honor Guard in Hazelwood, Pa., during his funeral, Monday, April 12, 2004.

RIP-------------saigon

[saigon68]

24. SPC Michelle Witmer

Left to right, Charity, Rachel and Michelle Witmer have their picture taken in Iraq (news - web sites) in this undated family handout photo. Michelle, one of the three Wisconsin sisters serving in Iraq, was killed Friday, April 9, 2004, and the family is appealing to military leaders to prevent the two surviving sisters from being sent back after her funeral. (AP Photo/HO

RIP------------saigon

Michelle is from my home state the 3rd woman killed from WI

[burrowowl]

26. Damn Bu$h to Hell!

I hope the 2 surviving sisters are not sent back. The National Guard has no business being there. They are not trained as combat troops. A commander at Fort Bliss said they were 'bullet magnets'.

[saigon68]

28. Marine Pfc. Eric A. Ayon

Marine Pfc. Eric A. Ayon is shown in this undated photo provided by the family. Ayon, 26, from Arleta, Calif.; died Friday from hostile fire in the Anbar province of Iraq (news - web sites). Ayon was assigned to 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force out of Camp Pendleton, Calif. (AP Photo/The Ayon Family via the L.A. Daily News


RIP ---------------saigon