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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:17 PM
Original message
Texas lawmakers: NASA, we have a problem
Source: CNN

(CNN) -- Texas lawmakers are demanding to know why the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center in Houston was not chosen to be a permanent home of a retired space shuttle.

In a letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden, members of the U.S. House of Representatives Texas delegation asked the administrator, "What factors did you use in making your decision?"

NASA announced Tuesday the locations to receive the four remaining space shuttles -- three historic orbiters and the program's test vehicle. The space shuttle Atlantis will be displayed at the Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex in Florida; the Endeavour, at the California Science Center in Los Angeles; the Discovery, at the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center in Virginia; and the test shuttle Enterprise at the Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum in New York.

During a teleconference after the decision was announced -- with Houston conspicuously not on the list of locations getting retired shuttles -- NASA officials were asked where Houston's bid had failed.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/04/14/shuttle.controversy/in...
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe Texas just didn't pray on it hard enough? n/t
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Grins Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. I think it was because they believe in Creationism....
...and hate that "libural" science stuff.

Why should a state that thinks the earth is 6,000 years old get something that argues against their fantasy?
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bbinacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Houston should've gotten one. n/t
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. I agree. nt
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Because you're a red state.
Only blue states get the good stuff.

Secede.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Simple answer
because they are bat shit insane. I want to know why Chicago wasn't chosen.
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Funding and detais of the custodial plan...
...presence of an entire Saturn V in Houston already.

Just off the top of my head, those are a few reasons. It wasn't a popularity contest.
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Nossida Donating Member (205 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. Paleeezzze
The only reason NASA Flight Control Center
ended up in Houston was to glorify Johnson,
and keep his Texas fed with even more Tax
Dollars. He no doubt calculated the 1st
word from the Moons surface would be 'Houston'.

Isn't that quite enough for you Texas?
With a near $18 billion budget deficit
this year, how could you pay for it, if
not using Federal money?

California actually built the thing, so
that scores 1.

Grounding the Space Shuttle, with no indigenous
Man-rated vehicle to take its place is a disgrace.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. The NASA Flight Control Center WAS Going to be in Cambridge, MA
They even cleared off a bit chunk of East Cambridge for it.

Then Kennedy was shot, and overnight the whole thing was moved to Houston.

There was a big hole in Cambridge for decades afterwards.
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LunaSea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. Why Houston didn't get a shuttle
http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/why-houston-d... /

"No disrespect to those who spearheaded the effort to bring the shuttle here, but the response was lackluster. The local politicians gave lip service, some weak letters to the NASA administrator and little else. We got a limp editorial or two in the local newspaper. The movers and shakers downtown barely lifted a finger. Its hard to tell if Austin and the Texas Legislature even knew what was happening. A rally at city hall was poorly attended, too little, too late, and totally ineffective.

You can tell that Texas regards involvement with NASA as an entitlement by the evidence: when was the last time a sitting governor came to JSC? I know the answer: Ann Richards in 1995. When was the last time the Houston mayor bothered to visit JSC? Anybody remember?

Other states have strong programs to bring space investments to their states; Texas has virtually nothing.

Thousands of high paid, white collar jobs are leaving the Clear Lake area as NASA and JSC wind down. The City of Houston and the State of Texas have done, well, next to nothing. Nobody gets excited; nobody tries to bring new work here, a little lip service, no real effort.

Nope, Houston does not deserve an orbiter because Houston doesnt care.

Dont expect JSC and its mission control to be here forever just because we are entitle to them.

No, with the level of interest that our citizens and leaders have in JSC, I soon expect to see that facility in the hands of a different federal agency. Soon the National Park Service will be leading tours through the historic and empty halls of the Johnson Space Center National Historic Site.

Because we just dont care enough to do anything about it."




The comments of locals seem to back up this bloggers opinion.
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tech9413 Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Another good reason that republicans might understand
It's all about money. Greater exposure means more money. South Street seaport and the Intrepid museum get more visitors in a month than Houston would get in a year. I lived in the Metro NYC area for 15 years and had to do work on $Wall St, not to mention escorting friends and visitors around NYC.

I spent three weeks in the Houston area that felt like a year. There are some great tourist attractions but mostly of limited interest. The problem is that most visitors to the area seem to have EXTREMLY fat wallets and that kind of stuff just doesn't interest them.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. I want to know why one wasn't sent to the USAF Museum in Dayton
They have the facilities and the staff to care for it. The Smithsonian makes, sense. Kennedy Space Center makes sense and one in California does as well, for people in the Western part of the U.S.

NYC not so much as the East Coast has 2 already and I honestly don't know where they will put it (on the deck of the Intrepid exposed to the elements?)


The rest of the country once again simply becomes the flyovers.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. California built it ...
Florida babies it and flew it ....

The Smithsonian is a given ... They were always going to get one ....

New York ? ..... I was born in North Jersey across the river from NYC .... As much as I love my 'homies' in NYC ... a Space Shuttle ?

I don't understand, EXCEPT, it will get great exposure in NYC .... Many will come to see a real Space Shuttle .... But they would probably come anyways ....

I am not sure why Dayton would expect to land one .... Houston has a stronger connection than Dayton (or Oklahoma, which claimed ownership due to it being the source of the wing structures) ...

Evergreen Aviation in Oregon ? .... Like other candidates, they were practically building a Space Shuttle hangar out of spare two by fours to show how much they REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted one ! ...

They already have the Spruce Goose (Which lay fallow in Long Beach CA for more than a decade ... ) .... I live Oregon, and I didn't see it coming here ... The got an OMS engine and some other components ...

I started my career in 'that' company in Downey, first installing wire harnesses into the Aft Fuselage of OV-099, AKA Challenger ... Moved to Installation and Test on Discovery and Atlantis ... and eventually joined the OMDP crews in Palmdale in the 90's, working in and on the remaining 4 Shuttles through the MIR Docking missions ...

I still work in a division of 'that' company ... 30 years later ....

CA and FLA make perfect sense .... As does Washington DC .... NY is the strangest call ...
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jlshaw47 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Dayton Deserves an Orbiter
Why? because Dayton is the center of the aviation universe and the birthplace of powered flight. A couple of brothers named Wright got the whole ball rolling and the Museum of the United States Air Force has the largest collection of historical aircraft in the world, and the space shuttle is an airplane. The museum is located on the hollowed ground of old Wright Field where modern test flight was born. Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton is still the home of test flight even though the actual flying was moved to Edwards AFB in the '50s because many aircraft were drilling holes in people's backyards.

Any Air force pilot would took the test pilot to astronaut route has at one time or another been stationed at WP-AFB, hell when I was a kid Gus Grissom lived down the street. Another cool thing about Dayton is that many pilots stay here after they retire so you never know who you will bump into, I have a friend who flew 56 combat missions in a B-17 in WWII, born in Washington state, going to die in Dayton.

I have been visiting The AFM for 50 years, it's a top notch facility and admission is free and is open everyday of the year except Christmas and New Years day. I know and understand that we will also be in the shadow of the Smithsonian, as it should be; they have the Wright Flyer, we have the Wright B flyer, they have the X-1, we have the X-1B, they have the Apollo 11 capsule, we have Apollo 15, they have the Enola Gay, we have Bock's Car, and so on. But the Afm has some other cool stuff too, like all the Presidential aircraft, B-17's Memphis Belle and the Swoose, the XB-70, an X-15 and basically one example of everything the Air Force has ever flown.

I think the order should be: Discovery - Smithsonian, Atlantis - Dayton, Endeavor - Kennedy, and Enterprise - Huston. We would have proudly accepted Enterprise, even though it had never been in space, but the fact remains that the Shuttle Orbiter System was blasted into orbit by rockets and fell around the Earth in orbit but returned to Earth as a glider using the same basic flight control systems designed by the Wright Brothers in good ole Dayton, Ohio. That's what made it special and that's why we should have an Orbiter here in Dayton.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. A specious argument ....
But everybody has an opinion .... You have exactly T-Minus one day to change their mind ..... GO !
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Dayton would be the choice in my opinion because it
As said there are 3 on the East Coast.

The NY & DC ones are only a couple of hundred miles away.


Dayton is the home of the Wright Brothers which kinda started the whole thing (might be a minor point to some, but without them.........)


Dayton has the facilities, The USAF Museum is just huge with space to grow! The Intrepid looks pretty tight on space. (They have the Concorde on a barge across the pier from them and it is exposed to the elements),


Dayton is in the Midwest and a day's drive to something like 61% of the US population. The Midwest should not be shut out on this just on principle as they help pay for that space exploration thing too.


Dayton's facility is open to the public for FREE, The Intrepid as nice as it might be still costs a good amount to take a family. (I have visited both, like both, but FREE parking, FREE admittance when talking a family makes a difference).

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jlshaw47 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. A specious argument ....?
Yes, this is an opinion, but please tell me why it is "an argument that appears good at first view but is really fallacious"..... There is nothing false or misleading in my post.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. You would take the orbiter from California?
Even though the orbiters were BUILT here? Even though the shuttles were DESIGNED here? Even though the Enterprise was put though its 13 test flights and the shuttle was deemed airworthy here? Even though we had a fully functional set of shuttle launch platforms built at Vandenberg, and were originally intended to be the launch points for HALF of the space shuttle liftoff's? Even though the very first shuttle launch landed here? Even though a total of 43 of the 133 launches to date had Edwards as a final destination?

You REALLY think that Ohio is more deserving of a shuttle than California?
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jlshaw47 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Yep
I do because of the available facility, and the aviation heritage. California might be more deserving than Houston, but the New york decision is the worst (and I love NYC). Just my opinion, nothing against California...
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. Aviation heritage does NOT = astronautical heritage ...
As much as you argue in favor of a Dayton-centric spaceflight, spacecraft creation myth .... You are on flimsy ground ...

Using the Wright Brothers as a foundation for a claim obtains you a Wright Flyer .. Not a Space Shuttle ....

You have not demonstrated a single connection to the space program of any substance ...

I really don't care if you continue to post on this subject - We are done ...

(I tend to agree about NYC - and I was born across the river)
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jlshaw47 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. I'm calling Bullshit
Yea, I am glad we are done, because if California deserves a shuttle because most of the flights landed there and they were going to launch from there that's a very weak argument.
There is a lot of difference between design and engineering.The difference between the STS and any other spacecraft is the shuttle flies back into the atmosphere, it doesn't fall to earth like a bag of gravel. The difference is a little concept known as avionics and like it or not, a lot of that engineering came form WP-AFB in this little ole hick town of Dayton, Ohio.
Not to mention the fact that over 60 percent of the tax paying population are within a days drive to come to Dayton and gaze on the engineering marvel of the shuttle free of charge. Hell you can go see the Spruce Goose, how can we top that?
Just remember that if you ask an engineer what time it is, they tell you how to build a clock, designers draw the plans and builders build to the drawings.
I didn't make up the system, I just state the facts, so you can post all the condescending Bullshit you want and you wont change my mind, cause I might be a Dayton hick, but I'm as smart as you... Have a nice day! :)
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. If god had wanted it to be in TX, she woulda told NASA.
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Blacksheep214 Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. I've been to SC Houston
What a disappointment! The Saturn 5 was outdoors in the elements for years and finally gets a barn. The small array of boosters are archaic and also rusty. The center was an amusment park for kids without rides. As an adult I got bored. Besides, they have a mock up front part of a shuttle. Then we had to listen to Dubya read a memorial speech while on the tram. He's the last person I ever want to hear speak again! EVER!

Screw Texas. They don't deserve anything since who knows what country if any they will be associated with in the future.

Secede already!
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Dumak Donating Member (397 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. In Texas, it would be treated as nothing but a theme park attraction.
Very little respect for science education there, and they actively ship their anti-science, anti-truth textbooks to children around the country.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. LOL .... A stage for 'Jesus loves the Dinosaurs' exhibit !
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Sounds similar to history and the USS Alabama
in Mobile. Down in AL it is treated like a theme park also, a far cry from the USS Missouri presentation in Honolulu run by the US Park Service.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
18. The facilities in Downey Ca. that built the shuttles is now a movie studio.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-11 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Yep ....
Edited on Thu Apr-14-11 11:07 PM by Trajan
I started my career in that facility .... The High Bay in BLDG290 was ripped down and sold for scrap some ten years ago ....

One day, I was watching 'Smash Lab' on Discovery, and realized they were driving down the runway in the middle of the plant premises. It was only then I realized it became Downey Studios ...

Shrugs .... Progress ?

1930's ?
Image


1960's inside BLDG 1
Image


Full Scale Mock Up DEI Room BLDG 1
Image


2002
Image


Image


(I cannot embed images anymore .....)
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
23. Where would the greatest number of people be likeliest to see a shuttle?
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 01:35 AM by No Elephants
As I understand it, that is the answer to Bolden's question.

"In a letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden, members of the U.S. House of Representatives Texas delegation asked the administrator, "What factors did you use in making your decision?"

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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Then it should have been in Dayton
close to 61% of the US Population.

Their greatest number of people argument is simply made of whole cloth.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
24. Maybe seceding states were kept off the list? - K&R n/t
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
29. When you locales associated with space travel what do you think of?
Virgina and New York, exactly.

What does Houston have to do with space travel?
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Houston = Johnson Space Center/NASA
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 03:34 PM by Lone_Star_Dem
Space Shuttle
Johnson Space Center has been the home of NASA's Space Shuttle Program for more than 20 years, conducting the longest human space flight endeavor in history.
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/missions/index.html
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I was being sarcastic
forgot the tag.

Obviously Houston has more to do with NASA than the other places (except FL).
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Oh!
I didn't get it and some people honestly don't even know NASA has JSC in Houston, let alone know about it's long standing role in space travel. Where they think the famous quote regarding Apollo 13 (slightly misquoted though it may be) came from is beyond me.

I hope you're not offended I misunderstood you. :hi:

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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Houston got Mission Control because of Lyndon Johnson and Albert Thomas.
Political suction.

And probably Sam Rayburn, Speaker of the House. All Texans.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #34
45. Of course not
I often forget the :sarcasm: tag.

I guess I type things out in my sarcastic voice and don't realize others can't hear it.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
32. I'm not trying to piss on their outrage, but
Doesn't the Texas legislature have more pressing issues in the state right now?

I think this is more about the 'slight' than the shuttle itself...I have a strange feeling that if Houston was given the shuttle from the start, the teabaggers would be out in force complaining about their tax dollars used to transport, house and maintain the STS...
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Blacksheep214 Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
35. The shuttles were built in California
By Liberals!

There, that should end that!
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
37. Well "Duh!" Texas' leadership spits at the Obama Adm every chance they get an they
expect the Obama Adm to be nice to them after that? Grow the fuck up!

Oh, and I live in TX and would have enjoyed going to see the shuttle.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
39. They're hopping mad about this one in Houston
I saw a video of someone vowing to make NASA explain this travesty of justice.

For God's sake, give them a Shuttle for all the work they've done for the space program.

I don't remember NY working on any space missions.
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Blacksheep214 Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Texas wants to secede
Why give them anything? Texas really doesn't want to be part of America

As for Ohio? They're broke. Ask Boner and Kasich.

Space Center Houston is a joke. They didn't even have decent signage on the freeway to find it.

I did find Pasadena and Tom DeLays district in Sugarland.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Texas doesn't want to secede n/t
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Blacksheep214 Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Really?
Tell Texas elected officials!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/texas-secession

What Houston did to the Saturn 5 booster, leaving it outside for years to rust is criminal. Now they want a shuttle?
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #40
46. A few nuts do
by that logic we should cut off the majority of the US from any funds as most places have some kind of secession movement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_St...
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. Texas lover!
:spank:
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