Kerry Ignores Reproaches of Some Bishops [NYT]

[truthisfreedom]

http://xrl.us/bvo6

Kerry Ignores Reproaches of Some Bishops

By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
Published: April 11, 2004

OSTON, April 11 — Rejecting the admonitions of several national Roman Catholic leaders, Senator John Kerry received communion at Easter services today at the Paulist Center here, a kind of New Age church that describes itself as "a worship community of Christians in the Roman Catholic tradition" and that attracts people drawn to its dedication to "family religious education and social justice."

Mr. Kerry's decision to receive communion represented a challenge to several prominent Catholic bishops, who have become increasingly exasperated with politicians who are Catholic but who deviate from Catholic teaching.

Mr. Kerry, the presumed Democratic presidential nominee, supports abortion rights and stem cell research, both of which are contrary to church teaching. He and his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, are regular worshipers at the Paulist Center, which is near their home on Beacon Hill.

Last November, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops organized a task force headed by Cardinal Theodore McCarrick of Washington to study how the church should treat Catholic politicians like Mr. Kerry, who say they are personally opposed to abortion, for example, but support abortion rights legislatively. There has been a long line of such politicians, including Mario Cuomo, the former governor of New York, and Geraldine Ferraro, the Democratic vice presidential candidate in 1984.

<snip>

[trumad]

1. I think Kerry ought to check into their Tax Free status...

that will show them...

[LiberalFighter]

15. Narrow it down to just their wages and benefits...

so it is not against the whole parish. That way the parishioners will not have as much of a feeling that they have to vote against or work against the catholic politician.

[Democat]

2. When religious leaders start speaking out against war and death penalty...

Then I'll believe it's anything but a political attack.

Notice how many of them love to talk about abortion, but not war or the death penalty or even children in poverty that Bush is responsible for.

Bush should be kicked out of his church first, then you can talk to Kerry.

[Kolesar]

5. Bush's war only killed what--13,000 living human beings ?

I think you nailed it.

[atreides1]

7. That's Just It

The Pope was against this war, he's still against it. This means that any Catholic who supports the war, to include soldiers on active duty, must be denied communion.

This would be in keeping with what the Bishop wants to apply to politicians.

[prodigal_green]

32. Er, the Catholic church

is opposed to the war in Iraq and is very actively opposed to the death penalty.

I agree with Kerry's position--just because I am a Catholic and follow a particular moral code does not mean I have the right to impose that code on others. The church should stay out of state bidness and the state should stay out of church bidness.

The KKK targeted Catholics, along with Blacks and Jews in their heyday. Too many "dark-skinned" people, not to mention the Irish are Catholic. Bush's church hates us as much as they do Muslims, Mel Gibson (who should be excommunicated for advocating pre-Vatican II dogma) notwithstanding.

[leetrisck]

3. The right wing is so concerned over communion

for Kerry - it must be the major problem this country is facing.

[Gman]

11. They are scared to death of Kerry getting the Catholic vote

like the original JFK did. But, that's ok. As long as the revolution in Iraq contiinues this won't matter.

Prediction As of today, Easter Sunday 2004:

If Kerry gets elected they will do their damndest to cut Kerry off from Communion as president for nothing more than purely, partisan hateful reasons. They will most likely succeed. It'll be the same bunch doing the same things they did to persecute Clinton.

[skooooo]

17. Absolutely a major problem!

How could we have missed it? Thank God Kerry is here to make the problem known to the rest of us!

[displacedtexan]

4. I loved Kerry's quote re his religion!

Kerry and his wife Teresa attended Easter services at the Paulist Center, close to their Beacon Hill home and the church at which they generally worship.

As he entered, Kerry was asked if he would take Communion. He responded with a firm "yes."

snip

A practicing Catholic and a former altar boy, Kerry also supports stem cell research, civil unions for gays and lesbians, issues he calls matters of conscience.

"I fully intend to practice my religion separately from what I do with respect to my public life and that's the way it ought to be in America," he told reporters in Ohio last week. "There is a separation of church and state in America and we have prided ourselves about that all ... of our history."

more (Be sure to rate the story!)...
http://tinyurl.com/32f7e

[LiberalFighter]

16. Back in 1960...

they were so concerned about Kennedy being controlled by the Pope.

Here are quotes by JFK that I have:

If my church attempted to influence me in a way which was improper or which affected adversely my responsibilities as a public servant sworn to uphold the Constitution, then I would reply to them that this was an improper action on their part. It was one to which I could not subscribe.
Press conference, 12 September 1960, Houston TX ¹

We do not want an official state church. If ninety-nine percent of the population were Catholics, I would still be opposed to it. I do not want civil power combined with religious power. I want to make it clear that I am committed as a matter of deep personal conviction to separation.
Interview, CBS "Face the Nation", 30 October 1960 ¹

I am flatly opposed to appointment of an ambassador to the Vatican. Whatever advantages it might have in Rome -- and I'm not convinced of these -- they would be more than offset by the divisive effect at home.
Interview, Look, 3 March 1959¹

It is my firm belief that there should be separation of church and state as we understand it in the United States -- that is, that both church and state should be free to operate, without interference from each other in their respective areas of jurisdiction. We live in a liberal, democratic society which embraces wide varieties of belief and disbelief. There is no doubt in my mind that the pluralism which has developed under our Constitution, providing as it does a framework within which diverse opinions can exist side by side and by their interaction enrich the whole, is the most ideal system yet devised by man. I cannot conceive of a set of circumstances which would lead me to a different conclusion.
Letter to Glenn L. Archer, 23 February 1959¹

Whatever one's religion in his private life may be, for the officeholder, nothing takes precedence over his oath to uphold the Constitution and all its parts -- including the First Amendment and the strict separation of church and state.
Interview, Look, 3 March 1959¹

Voters are more than Catholics, Protestants or Jews. They make up their minds for many diverse reasons, good and bad. To submit the candidates to a religious test is unfair enough -- to apply it to the voters is divisive, degrading and wholly unwarranted.
Address to the American Society of Newspaper Editors, 21 April 1960¹

I believe the American people are more concerned with a man's views and abilities than with the church to which he belongs. I believe the founding fathers meant it when they provided in Article VI of the Constitution that there should be no religious test for public office. And I believe that the American people mean to adhere to those principles today.
Address to the American Society of Newspaper Editors, 21 April 1960¹

I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end ... where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice.
Address to the Ministerial Association of Greater Houston, 12 September 1960¹

I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end -- where all men and all churches are treated as equals -- where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice -- where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind -- and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.
Address to the Ministerial Association of Greater Houston, 12 September 1960¹

I would not look with favor upon a President working to subvert the First Amendment's guarantees of religious liberty ... Neither do I look with favor upon those who would work to subvert Article VI of the Constitution by requiring a religious test -- even by indirection.
Address to the Ministerial Association of Greater Houston, 12 September 1960¹

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute -- where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote -- where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference -- and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.
I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish -- where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches, or any other ecclesiastical source -- where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials -- and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.
Address to the Ministerial Association of Greater Houston, 12 September 1960¹

[Merlin]

20. Thanks, LiberalFighter

This is a terrific collection. JFK was and remains my political hero. I remember the campaign as if it were yesterday.

There was one more quote from that Houston speech I remember. It included the words: "I do not speak for my church on public matters. And my church does not speak for me."

That speech was a powerful occassion. JFK went into the lion's den of anti-Catholic zealotry and stared them down.

[LiberalFighter]

31. Speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association

Speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association
September 12, 1960

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Didn't realize Kerry went to the Paulist Center

sounds like my kind of church-by New Age I'm sure it means all are welcome and that everyone has an equal voice-sort of like the Sufis-wonder if they do the Dances of Universal Peace?

[mcar]

18. The Paulist Center is awesome

I used to go back in the '80s when I lived in Boston and it was always an experience. There'd be dancers, jesters, all kinds of music.

It was a truly joyous worship service.

[acmavm]

8. Catholic Bishops try to pull rank like this and more and more people

will do as I did. The minute I was old enough to read, I started to get hip to their speil. The Catholic Church is a good ol' boys club. Read Aquinas if you don't believe me.

If they start to disallow communion to everyone who disagrees with them, they'll find the churches emptier than they are now. They'd send us all back to the Middle Ages if they could.

[w4rma]

9. Pope to Bush: Go into Iraq and You Go Without God

Pope John Paul II has a strong message for President George W. Bush: God is not on your side if you invade Iraq.
But the President told the pope's envoy the leader of the world's Catholics is wrong.

Pleading for peace, an emissary from Pope John Paul II questioned Bush Wednesday on whether he was doing all he could to avert what the envoy called an "unjust" war with Iraq.
...
Laghi came bearing the pope's message: A war would be a "defeat for humanity" and would be neither morally nor legally justified.

The Pope also questioned the President's statements invoking God's name as justification for the invasion.

"God is a neutral observer in the affairs of man," the Pope said. "Man cannot march into war and assume God will be at his side."

In Rome, the pope called for "common efforts to spare humanity another dramatic conflict."
...
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=3&num=107&printer=1

The New York Times didn't touch that story.

[Dr Fate]

10. Kerry can worship as he pleases-

and theses Bishops need to clean thier own back yards...

I'm not familiar with this philosphy of not allowing sinners(and we ALL are) communion- where did that one come from?

[Malva Zebrina]

12. well, the CAtholic Bishops were not elected in a democracu were they?

In fact, Catholocism is not a democracy is it?

Women are still relegated to a position of second best in this and then we have the far to the right Catholicism of the Opus Dei a fascist like far to the right Catholic orgainsiation with it's own priests and which expresses it's disdain for the hegemony of the Vatican over it. It is attempting to overthrow the Vatican and we have rumors that Antonin Scalia is a member as well as Clarence
Thomas. As well as Louis Freeh.



Catholics and the Vatican do not operate under the laws of democracy. Catholicism is a dictatorship. It is not a democracy.

Women, often, are quite willing to assume this secondary postition, such as they are willing to embrace the "anti-abortion" stance while their sisters will and could die painfully, because of their one way, totalitarian stance and insistence upon laws that would deem women who want to take control over their reproductive lives, as somehow being immoral.

They do not seem to care--they think they will go to a heaven for taking this stance against their sisters, and that is what they are concerned about in my estimation as a non theist.

Some day people might become more willing to explore and accept that in all of nature as we observe it, there is birth and then there is death. That is the fact as we observe it.

There is no evidence of life after death.

There is a fear of death of course, and therefore religion offers an out to this horrible image of oneself being a nothing after they die.

Religion offers "life" after death in a shangri la, where one does nothing and the only form of entertainment seems to be watching others burn forever in a hell or a lake of fire as described in that holy book, written by human beings, but said to be "inspired" by a god, and that is indeed, a very powerful carrot on a stick. No one likes to think they will be a nothing after death.

If you can accept that after you die you are a nothing, you are truly free and will know it immediately.

[flamingpie2500]

13. Separation of Church and State!!

total and absolute.

[boobooday]

14. Bishops need to knock off all the reproaching and stuff

It seems to me like all of our moral authorities have lost their moral authority, or am I overreacting?

The press have turned out to be whores and plagarists.
The clergy have turned out to be molesters and enablers.
The politicians are lying hypocrites.
The Corporate CEOs are shameless looters and liars.
The Bush Administration is made up of the worst of the CEOs.
The Virtue Czar has a gambling problem.
The Self-Righteous Rush is a raging pill popper.
Lynne Cheney wrote a lesbian novel and has a lesbian daughter.
George Bush was nominated for a Nobel peace prize.

And so, we must turn to each other, and find the nation's morality in the everyday acts of peace and kindness.

End of Sermon.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[kskiska]

19. Their boy Rudy is never mentioned in these articles,

yet he's talked about as presidential/vice-presidential material. Does he receive communion?

[Democat]

21. When do these religion articles ever mention a major Republican?

Only when the Repulicans are attacking the Democrat that the article is about!

It was refreshing to see Kerry stand up last week and ask which right winger was complaining about his stance on abortion, so that he could ask them about the death penalty. That's what our side needs to do. Don't hide, fight back.

[neverforget]

22. As a recovering Catholic, I can't believe the one issue of these bishops:

abortion. What about Scalia and Santorum's support of the death penalty? Where's the outrage about that? What about the fund cutting of programs for the poor? Selective outrage equals politics.

[powergirl]

24. I AM CATHOLIC AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS MUCH

more in line with the teachings of the church. It is my understanding that the Catholic leadership advises Catholics to analyze the ENTIRE candidate/party/platform. THe Catholic church supports the following issues - in no particular order:


No death penalty
No abortion
No poverty
NO DEMONIZING POOR PEOPLE
Social justice
Equal Opportunity for All
Forgiveness
Immigration rights


It seems to me that the Republican party only supports one of these issues. So, if you are a serious Catholic, you weigh the respective positions of the parties and pick the party who supports more of the issues that are important to you. Also, your basic Catholic is not a big fan of the Bush/Ashcroft evangelical deal. Too many times, that movement has decided that Catholics aren't Christian.

Don't worry, FOX did a poll and they were SURPRISED that a majority of Catholics support Kerry. DUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[bleedingheart]

25. I could not agree with your more.

I am also a Roman Catholic and the only issues I deviate from the church on are Abortion and Birth Control.....

[neverforget]

27. Exactly! But the press wants to harp on the fact that a few bishops

have something against Kerry.

[drscm]

23. And the leadership of *Bush's church condemned

invading Iraq.

[schultzee]

26. No, but they would support a person like GW Bush! hypocrits

[UTUSN]

28. Kick for Thanks Paulists n/t

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nolabels]

30. NYT

Next thread please.