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Libya planned killing civilians (before the latest upheaval started) - International Criminal Court

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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:20 PM
Original message
Libya planned killing civilians (before the latest upheaval started) - International Criminal Court
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 11:25 PM by Turborama
Source: AFP

From correspondents in The Hague | April 06, 2011 10:33AM

The killing of civilians in Libya followed a "pre-determined plan" prepared by strongman Muammar Gaddafi's regime before the latest upheaval started, the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court said.

"We have good evidence that shows that the killing of civilians was a pre-determined plan," Luis Moreno-Ocampo told Agence France-Presse today.

"In January, after the revolts in Tunisia, they started to prepare to face problems in Libya, they organised themselves," he said.

The Libyan unrest started in mid-February, two months after the beginning of protests in western neighbour Tunisia that led to the ouster of president Zine el Abidine Ben Ali on January 14.

Read more: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/libya-pl...
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AllTooEasy Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. and Kucinich wanted to do nothing about it.
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. your point being...?
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AllTooEasy Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. If we followed Kucinich the killings would have happened...duh
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Baloney. Dennis never said, don't do anything.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
24. Kucinich never said, do something.
Did he?
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. BBC: The government planned to crush protests by killing civilians even before the uprising in Libya
broke out, the International Criminal Court says.

The chief prosecutor said the plans had been a reaction to street protests that led to the fall of the Tunisian regime. Luis Moreno Ocampo is expected to request arrest warrants for Col Muammar Gaddafi, his sons and close aides.

In The Hague on Tuesday, Mr Moreno-Ocampo said: "We have evidence that after the Tunisia and Egypt conflicts in January, people in the regime were planning how to control demonstrations inside Libya.

"The planning at the beginning was to use tear gas and ... shooting," he told Reuters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12983054
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I'm wondering if this evidence could be documentation and/or testimony from Mussa Koussa....?
Or the other guy who defected recently.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. In a related report...
ICC prosecutor wants access to Libya's Moussa
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/05/us-libya-icc-i...

The prosecutor, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, states that:
"We are trying to see Moussa Koussa to interview him ... we would like to see what Moussa Koussa knows. But the fact that he defected is a factor we will consider seriously."

Both reports were dated the 5th, so I suppose that means his evidence so far doesn't include anything from Moussa Koussa.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
26. Unless MI6 are passing on evidence to them and they want to "see" and speak to him in person...?
Who knows what's really going on behind the scenes apart from those involved, though?

I guess we'll have to wait for a while to see how this side of things unfolds.

Thanks for the article.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. K/R
:kick:
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, Turborama.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Could someone spell out the evidence so far
for killing civilians and not just putting down protests?
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. If we waited for evidence, we could not have stopped
Qaddafi's forces from throwing babies out of incubators.

Wait, no, uh..
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. How many contingency plans does the US military have?
I've seen quite a few reports, and a few of them are really ghastly -- but that's not the same, because um, it's us.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. We found out after Katrina.




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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. He killed civilians when he put down the peaceful protests in February.
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 07:21 PM by Turborama
Here's some footage of unarmed civilians being slaughtered when it all started in February.

Warning, contains graphic imagery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN9-55MstMs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAAtfvoneak

BBC: Libya doctor: 'Protests spreading amid massacre'

Al Jazeera English: Police Fire Live Rounds At Protesters In Benghazi, Libya (Graphic)

If that's not enough, do some searching on YouTube and you'll see a lot more evidence of unarmed civilians being massacred by Gaddafi's mercenaries.

Or did you want his full 42 year history of killing civilians?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. My question was, what is the evidence for a PLAN to kill civilians
and not simply a plan to put down protests?

Thanks.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. "spell out evidence so far for killing civilians and not just putting down protests?"
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 07:42 PM by Turborama
You didn't ask about the "PLAN", did you.

Why are you trying to make it sound like the two are separate? Killing protesters is killing civilians.

Is it because you are just going by the title of the article?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. My point goes to the goal.
The headline says Gaddafi set out to kill civilians.

I'm asking how we know that his goal was to kill civilians and not to contain the protests.

I'm afraid that's as clear as I can be.


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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Maybe going beyond the headline and reading the article might shed some light on that for you?
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 07:57 PM by Turborama
The killing of civilians in Libya followed a "pre-determined plan" prepared by strongman Muammar Gaddafi's regime before the latest upheaval started, the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court said.

"We have good evidence that shows that the killing of civilians was a pre-determined plan," Luis Moreno-Ocampo told Agence France-Presse today.


I'm afraid that's all the details I can find so far on the evidence they have about the "PLAN".

They are obviously not sharing that evidence with the public yet, as is normally the case before a trial.

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Correct, it would be irresponsible of the ICC to release that evidence.
However, between now and then we may have third parties releasing the evidence clandestinely.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I believe we'll have to wait for the ICC proceedings to find out about that.
It isn't very controversial, however, as the protesters were killed, and police don't tend to kill protesters without orders to that effect.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
21. Bush had evidence of WMD in Iraq.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. You're comparing a prosecutor from the International Criminal Court
to shrub?

Did you click the link? Did you read what was at the link? Or, did you just rush over to jerk your knee?

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Whistleblowers said he didn't months before the invasion.
Do you have anyone here contesting the ICC's allegation?
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nalnn Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
25. I heard someplace
That the ICC's mandate for Libya only allows them to investigate atrocities that occurred on or after Feb. 19. Any truth to this?
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