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Photos Found in Libya Show Abuses Under Qaddafi (Contains Graphic Descriptions)

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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:04 PM
Original message
Photos Found in Libya Show Abuses Under Qaddafi (Contains Graphic Descriptions)
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 11:35 PM by Turborama
Source: NYT

By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK and C. J. CHIVERS
Published: April 5, 2011

ZAWIYAH, Libya In the second-floor office of a burned-out police station here, the photographs strewn across the floor spun out the stories of the unlucky prisoners who fell into the custody of the brutal government of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.

Some depicted corpses bearing the marks of torture. One showed scars down the back of a man dressed only in his underwear, another a naked man face down under a sheet with his hands bound. The faces of the dead bore expressions of horror. Other pictures showed puddles of blood, a table of jars, bottles and powders and, in one, a long saw.

In a labyrinthine basement, workers were clearing out burned books and files. One room contained a two-liter bottle of gin. Gesturing into another room that was kept dark, a worker mimicked a gun with his hands and murmured Qaddafi, suggesting it was an execution chamber.

Journalists discovered the photographs and records on an official trip to this devastated city, where Qaddafi forces battled rebels for nearly a week to retake control. They were the latest reminder of the long record of arbitrary violence against civilians that now overshadows the governments efforts to broker an end to the international airstrikes and domestic rebellion threatening Colonel Qaddafis four decades in power.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/world/africa/06libya....



Some background to what happened in Zawiyah recently...

Warning this video report contains graphic imagery, including wounded children: The Battle for Zawiyah


Alex Crawford, the reporter who filmed the above, being interviewed by Anderson Cooper about what she witnessed while she was there.

Part 1 "in this town, they are 99 percent civilians": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC4e0qbAs2Y

Part 2 "if that isn't a massacre, I really don't know what is": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymCYt-UP6XE

Here's the transcript: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1103/09/acd.01.h...

If/when Gaddafi finally stands trial for crimes against humanity and/or war crines, Alex Crawford will be a key witness.

(50) Tanks and planes hit Libya rebels ("they tore Zawiya down to ashes" - source tells BBC)

Third parties were not allowed into Zawiya for days until the 'cleansing' had been completed...

Rebel Graves Bulldozed Over In Zawiyah

Gaddafis Forces Erase All Traces Of Rebels In Zawiyah


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. K/R --
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AllTooEasy Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. and Kucinich would still prefer that we did nothing. "Let's just...

...give Q-dawg a hug. That will stop him."

I hate war, but I hate genocide more. Iraq was bullshit. Lybia is not.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Agree -- !!!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Dennis never advocated doing nothing. That is simply false.
Good grief.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. What was his alternative?
Genuine question as I've tried to find something he offered other than "do nothing" and have drawn a blank.

:hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. He didn't propose one that I know of, although I haven't heard his every word.
But he did express concern for the Libyan people caught in this violence and he said we should help people whose regimes turned on them. His focus, though, was on how this was going down.

But Dennis is the last person anyone can accuse of being an isolationist or of not caring for other peoples. How many times has he been slammed here for expressing an opinion about foreign situations? Lots. lol

Btw, Amy has on one of the NYTs reporters that were kidnapped in Libya. It's a FANTASTIC interview. You have to watch it. :hi:

Freed from Captivity in Libya, Anthony Shadid of the New York Times Recounts Ordeal under Gaddafis Forces

Anthony Shadid is one of four New York Times reporters who were captured in Libya last month by forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi. They were held for nearly a week, during which they were beaten and threatened before ultimately being set free. Just two weeks after their release, Shadid joins us for an extensive interview on his ordeal in Libya, the outlook of the conflict, and his thoughts on the rolling rebellions sweeping the Middle East and North Africa. A two-time Pulitzer winner, Shadid is the New York Times Beirut bureau chief.

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/6/freed_from_captivi...
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Why is it that those who claim to "hate war" are some of its most vocal proponents?
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 03:42 AM by liberation
Saddam killed a boatload of his own people, hell he had some rather genocidal policies against the Kurds. So are Iraqis and Kurds less valuable that Libyans, since Iraq according to you was "bullshit?"

And what about the innocent killed by our bombs, because there is no such thing as a collateral-free bombing campaign. Are we somehow that morally superior that it is OK for us to kill Libyans, yet it is verboten for Gaddafi to kill his own people?

Kind of arbitrary the value of other people's lives, No? Are these the worth of these people's lives directly proportional to the political affiliation of the American president ordering the bombing at that specific time? The data seems to point that way.
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strategery blunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I will answer the question honestly.
The difference between Saddam Iraq and Gaddafi Libya is imminence of the genocide.

When Bush the Lesser wanted to invade Iraq, the massacre of Kurds had already occurred. More than a decade before the 2003 invasion, in fact, pretty much immediately after the FIRST Gulf War. The Kurds that Saddam massacred were already dead, and no new genocide was imminent. The time for "humanitarian intervention" in Iraq was right after the first Gulf War, when the international community could have actually followed up on the war's end to prevent Saddam from massacring Kurds and other dissidents he didn't like. Twelve years later, the "humanitarian reasons" for invading Iraq were, quite literally, dead. As Saddam's regime wasn't engaging in wholesale slaughter in 2003, when the invasion did occur, any war would have (and did) consume far more lives than it would have saved.

The genocide in Gaddafi Libya is happening now, and can therefore be mitigated and ameliorated by intervention. Military intervention, as is occurring, would likely result in fewer lives lost than the alternative, Gaddafi being allowed to bring genocide to his people. When the UNSC authorized the "get-the-fuck-away-from-civilians" zone (it can't really be called a NFZ when it authorizes "all necessary measures" to protect civilians short of ground invasion), Gaddafi had heavy artillery encircling a city of nearly a million. Such city WAS LITERALLY BEING SHELLED INDISCRIMINATELY AS THE UN DELIBERATED. Oh, yeah, and the night before Gaddafi had literally promised to purge the city house-to-house of anything he didn't like. He was literally starting to carry out that threat against his country's second-largest city when the NFZ came into effect.

The city of Benghazi was quite literally saved from genocide by the intervention. Unfortunately, Benghazi received all the media attention at the time, which meant less attention on other potential targets of Gaddafi's genocide, namely Zawiyah and Misrata. Now, reports are emerging from those two cities of just what Gaddafi had in mind. The intervention hasn't been perfect for the aforementioned reason, but I know I can be damn sure it has saved a lot of lives.

It is better to inconsistently prevent genocide, than to consistently turn a blind eye to the suffering of others. Are we hypocrites for that? Sure. But I think the people of Libya would rather be alive to write about our hypocrisy than dead and self-righteously anti-imperialist.
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AllTooEasy Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Perfect Answer!
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. That is a very good answer
Explains why the three are not the same in a manner that cannot be refuted, unless someone wants to try and rewrite history.
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strategery blunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. Thank you for your contributions to the Libya threads in GD
Very efficient source of information, so I don't have to spend six hours a day streaming AJE and kill my bandwidth :)

I know I wouldn't be able to keep that pace up for months on end. I know sometimes you guys wonder if anyone outside the same ten posters bothers to read those threads, but they certainly are a rich source of info for those willing to inform themselves before reaching knee-jerk positions.

Props to AllTooEasy as well, for boiling my position down into eight succinct words. "I hate war, but I hate genocide more." That describes exactly how I feel--and every word in my reply was consistent with how I felt about Iraq eight years ago, too.
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Very_Boring_Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. +1
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AllTooEasy Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Why is that those who claim to hate genocides don't want to do anything to stop them?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. +1000% -- great question -- !!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Libya is a "humanitarian" mission by UN/NATO ... is that what you're saying Afghanistan/Iraq are???
Those are both immoral and illegal wars of aggression -- and still are!!

Granted, any mission can be betrayed with so many rightwingers in government/MIC

now/intelligence -- but if we're lucky, not this time!!

Did Iraq and Afghanistan ask for US TO COME HELP THEM WITH ANYTHING?

Did they ask for NFZ?

Laughable to even think about comparing these these wars with this mission!!

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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. Probably just as well
the US used Egypt, and not Libya, for its extraordinary rendition program.

I'm guessing that otherwise you wouldn't be able to to tell the wood from the trees.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yep, when Egypt's torturing (evidence) came out... DU had at least a half dozen topics on it.
Libya? Oh who cares.

Par for the course, really.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. TORTURE is a topic which Americans need to pay a lot of attention to as fascism rises here --!!
Violence/torture -- are the only way that fascists can rule --

and it's the only way that the right wing can rise -- i.e., political violence --

and we've had more than 50 years of it!

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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. Sad, sounds like gitmo, but it doesn't justify Obama's new war...... nt
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nalnn Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. -1
The scale of this limits the comparison.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. You're saying the UN declared "war" on Libya?
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. Zawiyah's Mosque, Where 100s Hid For safety, Was Literally Razed To The Ground By Gaddafi's Forces
Recent Sky News report in the videos forum: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. In Tripoli, G has put snipers on the rooves of Mosques ...that's how he keeps control --
anyone even looking like they're getting ready to say anything anti-G or

protest is whisked away -- at the least!



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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. K/R
:kick:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. Over 20,000 people kidnapped in Libya are being held in inhuman conditions
Over 20,000 people kidnapped in Libya are being held in inhuman conditions

6th April 2011 Urgent Press Release

Over 20,000 people kidnapped in Libya are being held in inhuman conditions



Over 20,000 people have been kidnapped or arrested by Gaddafis security forces in Tripoli and the surrounding cities over the past 5 weeks. Many of these had been taken from their homes, their places of work or from the streets and comprise mainly of young men, although it is believed that a small proportion are also women. It is understood that some of the detainees have been accused by the Gaddafi regime of being activists involved mainly in contacting foreign media outlets and sending video footages. Others have merely been accused of participating in pro-democracy demonstrations or involved in anti-regime activities via social media tools such as Facebook.

According to prison guard sources within Tripoli, detainees have been crammed into Abu Saleem prison, Ein Zara Prison, the Police Academy, the former Tobacco factory in Tripoli and other various military camps across the city. The conditions under which they are being held are believed to be extremely harsh, inhumane and degrading. Prisoners are denied basic sanitary facilities, including showers and have been refused medical assistance even for the most critical of cases. Detainees have not been given any change of clothing and are forced to sleep on cold and uneven concrete floors.

http://www.imtidadblog.com/TNC06042011.pdf

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. K/R --
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