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Libya chaos 'allows al-Qaida to grab surface-to-air missiles'

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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:15 PM
Original message
Libya chaos 'allows al-Qaida to grab surface-to-air missiles'
Source: Guardian

Al-Qaida is exploiting the conflict in Libya to acquire weapons, including surface-to-air missiles, and smuggle them to a stronghold in northern Mali, a security official from neighbouring Algeria told Reuters.

The official said a convoy of eight Toyota pick-up trucks left eastern Libya, crossed into Chad and then Niger, and from there into northern Mali where in the past few days it delivered a cargo of weapons.

He said the weapons included Russian-made RPG-7 anti-tank rocket-propelled grenades, Kalashnikov heavy machine guns, Kalashnikov rifles, explosives and ammunition.

He also said he had information that al-Qaida's north African wing, known as al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), had acquired from Libya Russian-made, shoulder-fired, Strela surface-to-air missiles known by the Nato designation Sam-7.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/04/libya-confl...
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jakeXT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Did Gaddafi's troops even use one Strela missile? Or were they stolen by AQ before the No-Fly Zone ?


Ah well, new weapons are coming in from Egypt and Saudi Arabia for the rebels/insurgents/terrorists.

Looks like the whole region could go up in flames ?


"If the Gaddafi regime goes, it is the whole of Libya - in terms of a country which has watertight borders and security and customs services which used to control these borders - which will disappear, at least for a good time, long enough for AQIM to re-deploy as far as the Libyan Mediterranean.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Coming soon to an airport near you!
It was only a matter of time. As late as 2009, several US manufacturers were pushing (and winning) the right to sell huge amounts of military goods to Libya. We are the largest arms dealer in the world. It is one of our largest export crops that we grow.

Will it come back to haunt us? You Betcha.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. It's a "GLOBAL" "competition" out there. (NEWSFLASH)
That is, if US manufacturers (BTW... THOUSANDS of.... uh.... JOBS!) were to stop SELLING what they PRODUCE (yes, these missiles too), OTHER COUNTRIES MANUFACTURERS would be very happy to... uh... FILL THE VOID.

What do you want? More U.S. unemployed? :shrug:

That's the way it is. (FYI, I hate it too.)
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Roy Rolling Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. YES!!!!
Yes, I want weapons manufacturers unemployed and working to produce things that increase a society's wealth and not simply destroy. Jobs are not the most important thing, a peaceful society is. Eventually, weapons will be used and better those jobs go to other countries to create misery. Killing people creatively is not an advancement of society, it is a degrading of society. I would like the money spent on weapons manufacturing to be spent elsewhere. Full-time weapons producing, even when there is no war, is evil.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Hey, I'm with you on this, BUT... (tell that to whoever is in charge).
No. Let's tell that to whoever is 'supposed to' be 'representing' us... BUT, absent a BIG EFFING Campaign Funding REFORM(TM), can we 'realistically' expect whoever is 'supposed to' be 'representing' us will even LISTEN to what we want?????

I guess the 'realistic' answer is.... no.

See? You, me, and all of us just have... No Say(TM).

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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sounds like they knew the exact route and it's a very detailed list. Why wasn't it intercepted?
I am skeptical of this report for the above reasons.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. plus they call the group 'al Qaida"
which has become a generic term.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Well, everyone laughed at "boogeymen."
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. Is this due to the chaos?
Or just run-of-the-mill corruption?

Weapons are for sale. Shocking.
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Sounds like a commercial deal from Tripoli, pro-democracy
forces would have used them
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Used them for what? There should be no targets
Quaddafi's planes should be grounded (or ground to pieces) by now. The only thing flying should be NATO planes or rebel planes. So the rebels should have no use for them, hopefully.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Export to other cells
in other countries.
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TheLastMohican Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. Guardian is full of bullshit
There is no "Kalashnikov" heavy machine gun.

So much for the credibility of the reporting.
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jakeXT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. There is, it's called PK and the article seems to have come from Reuters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PK_machine_gun


EXCLUSIVE-Al Qaeda acquiring weapons in Libya:Algerian official

By Lamine Chikhi

ALGIERS (Reuters) - Al Qaeda is exploiting the conflict in Libya to acquire weapons, including surface-to-air missiles, and smuggle them to a stronghold in northern Mali, a security official from neighbouring Algeria told Reuters.
http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE7330LB2011...
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stockholmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. sorry, you beat me to it, cheers! I shouldn't have went for a refill on the vino
:beer:
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stockholmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. bullshit? lolololol...I think not, the Kalishnikov PK-M's are all over Libya, here is pic
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. Details, context, and sources matter.
The report is made to Reuters from Algeria, from an Algerian "security official" and the arms are said to have come from the south and to be moved to Mali.

All of this is outside the NTC "Free Libya" control and clearly outside their interests. All of it would be, however, in Gaddafi's control and interests, including the report itself.

Algeria has readily given Gaddafi covert support, and is in fact one of the few nations in the area willing to do so. Since Gaddafi has used the apparently overwhelming fear of AQ to bolster his own support, on the face of it we should have our doubts.

If it is backed up with evidence or other confirmation, it would then realize that the only source of the weapons would be Gaddafi stockpiles, which he would be spreading south for his own purposes.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Try reading the article
"The official said a convoy of eight Toyota pick-up trucks left eastern Libya."

Is there something about "eastern" you can't quite grasp ?

It continues to say " "Several military barracks have been pillaged in this region (eastern Libya) with their arsenals and weapons stores and the elements of AQIM who were present could not have failed to profit from this opportunity. AQIM, which has maintained excellent relations with smugglers who used to cross Libya from all directions without the slightest difficulty, will probably give them the task of bringing it the weapons," said the official."

It makes it clear the likely source is Gaddafi's stockpiles.

The issue is the security of the stockpiles.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Try being polite,
especially in a situation where neither of us likely has the slightest influence over the outcome. I would make an exception, of course, if I could be convinced you had benefit of revealed truth.

Lacking that myself, I prefer some initial skepticism, and would more clearly point to the very, very end of the article. It's there that our dutiful Algerian security officer speaks not of his own increased border patrols, but in self-serving fashion tweaks the fear-meter by reminding us of the need for "limiting the unavoidable advance of AQIM towards the southern coast of the Mediterranean". That is the fear that's been used by politicians of all stripes to justify oppression and their own continued existence for the past decade, the oppression which has itself fed both the uprisings and the ranks of AQ.

If there are more reports, and better sources, I'll be less skeptical. If there would be 30,000 AQIM soldiers marching along the Mediterranean, I might muster some fear. Until then, not so much fear, plenty of skepticism.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. The State Department is less skeptical, apparently.
U.S. asks Libyan opposition about al Qaeda reports

Reuters) - The United States has raised concerns with the Libyan opposition about reports of al Qaeda obtaining weapons in eastern Libya, State Department spokesman Mark Toner said on Monday.

"We are aware of these reports too and it has been one of the topics of our conversation with ... the opposition forces," Toner told reporters. "We have made very clear our concerns and they have ... pledged that they will look into it."

A senior security source in neighboring Algeria told Reuters that Al Qaeda is exploiting the conflict in Libya to acquire weapons, including surface-to-air missiles, and smuggle them to a stronghold in northern Mali.

Western governments have demanded that Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi step down after his forces cracked down on a revolt against his rule, but some governments in the region are nervous that al Qaeda could step into a power vacuum.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/04/us-libya-usa-...
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. But didn't claim it could independently confirm
with it's own information.

Let's cut to the chase. Seven or eight pickups headed for Mali would not have been a topic here three months ago. The bigger question is, would you sacrifice another generation of Arabs to their oppressors just to feed the AQ fear machine? I've had enough of it. Make it a police or special forces issue if need be, as it should have from the beginning, end those two wars, and let the Arabs have their Spring.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. AQ is not what Libyans should be worried about, or us, for that matter.
Agreed.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
16. Strela surface-to-air missiles
...in the hands of "The Rebels" in Afghanistan
would be bad news for the Occupation Forces.


If you're not FOR the New WAR,
you're with The Communists AlQaeda The Terrorists Saddam Qaddafi!!!
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jakeXT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. And then what ? Frame Qaddafi and a land invasion of Libya ?
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