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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:17 AM
Original message
Japan to release radioactive water into the sea
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 10:42 AM by Pharaoh
Source: Raw Story

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japanese engineers on Monday were forced to release radioactive water into the sea while resorting to desperate measures such as using bath salts to try to find the source of the leaks at a crippled nuclear power complex.

Engineers also planned to build a giant silt curtain in the ocean to stop the spread of more contamination from the Fukushima Daiichi plant.

The plant operator had to release low-level radioactive seawater that had been used to cool overheated fuel rods after it ran out of storage capacity for more highly contaminated water, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edanosaid.



Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/04/04/japan-to-release-... /
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nothing is going good with this
It will be interesting how much spin we will see in the months and years ahead............
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Like BP...
And you know BP is about to continue its deepwater drilling operations.

Spinspinspin. That's all we get these days so that corporations can
continue to destroy lives and the environment.
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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. As Usual
We are being lied to and things are far worse than we know.

Best to stock up on a bit of non perishable food before half the planet becomes too radioactive and panic buying/hoarding sets in.

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BioHorizon Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. Ugg
So there is enough plutonium in these reactors to kill everyone on this planet and it is leaking directly into the ocean. Yet all we hear is "This is harmless radiation similar to a plane trip".

Which is a complete lie, solar radiation, radio waves are non ionizing radiation. Nuclear radioisotopes are ionizing radation and permanetly change the chemistry of atoms that are near these particles. These particles can also attach to other atoms such as water or cells. They can be ingested and inhaled.

We must make this distinction and identify our food chains right now. They will not test for these particles as they need very expensive equipment to test for beta and alpha particles or emitters.

Regards,
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Welcome to DU
Hope your stay is pleasant
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
19. Great info!
Welcome to DU!
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Aren't geiger counters used to detect xrays, gamma rays, alpha and beta particles?
A geiger counter is rrelatively cheap and easy to use.
Although GCs are not suited well to detect higher energy gamma rays and fast neutrons.
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. Dilution is the solution to pollution
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yeah!!
Just dilute it with less toxic stuff............
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
8. This is so awful, it's hard to even think about.
But I think we need to think about WHY it's hard to even think about it. And that difficulty may be our underlying, almost unconscious knowledge that the profiteers of the great industrial powers of the earth really don't give a fuck. They think they can always buy themselves an island or a spit of land somewhere, out of harm's way, and enjoy their riches, while the rest of us starve to death or are poisoned to death, out of sight, out of mind. They have allowed the notion of democracy--of shared burdens, of the common good--to be obliterated from their minds and replaced by insane greed.

When I realized that the owners of Tepco have been trying to "save" their billion dollar nuke facility, at the cost of their workers' lives, the lives of those in the neighborhood, and countless additional lives (we don't know how many, finally) and ecosystems, instead of acting for the "common good," and that the Japanese government, the U.S. government, other governments and the UN, have been DEFERRING to this private corporation, in its MONEY-MOTIVATED efforts, it struck me that our problem is not just the multinational corporations and war profiteers who are running the U.S.--with their various methods of control (notably their 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines)--but that our problem is much bigger. We could probably still turn things around by a democracy revolution here, in the U.S. (--starting with the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines), because the U.S. is still the prime mover of exploitation, pollution, war and greed, worldwide--but these corporate vultures are at the throats of many other "first world" countries--Japan, England, France, Italy, Australia, Canada (to mention some obvious ones)--not to mention a behemoth wild card like China and the billionaire sheiks of Araby. We have a WORLDWIDE problem of GREED on a scale never before seen in human history--with the super-rich acting collectively to destroy the earth and humanity, for profit.

It is a mind-boggling problem--but one that we MUST think about, even though it's difficult and looks insoluble. Is this going to be our final act and legacy as a species--greed?
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. They Had Given Up Trying to "Save" The Nukes When They Started Cooling Them with Sea Water
This bit about trying to "save" the nukes doesn't make any sense. They gave up on that when they started using seawater.
Then there were the explosions.

Nobody could possibly repair those smoking piles of radioactive rubble, and surely they knew that.

Their incompetence has also caused the government to order the permanent closure of the undamaged reactors #5 and #6.

I'm sure we all wish they had made more of a real effort to save the plants while it was still possible. When they lost their emergency power, they still had an hour of battery power before they lost cooling, and they could have had generators brought in by helicopter.




To Dangerous to Fail
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. Exactly ---
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
37. They have been trying to save #5 and #6
1-4 is toast.

So too is a good portion of the Japanese countryside. There is going to be a Chernobyl-style exclusion zone. The only question now is how big will it be.
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BioHorizon Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
9. Could not Agree more
Its really a shame. We have let our government across the planet get out of control.

The real core of the issue is we have allowed our systems to be designed to be un-sustainable. Everything is dependent on a constant input of fuel/energy/cash. This is true for almost every system we have created even the simple systems like our everyday lives and our households. This means we can never be independent or free because we constantly need to pay someone to provide our needs.

See if we designed our systems to be sustainable (net 0 energy input needed). We would be less reliant on others and the government. This would reduce their power and therefore prevent these types of situations. Because if we are energy 0 zero we do not need centralized power production or centralized banks or centralized anything. It can be distributed and therefore bring up the standards of living and freedom of anyone who adopts this idea.

Man has never accomplished this task for one reason or another. We have the technology now that humanity has never had before, all we need is the courage of our ancestors.

See it would take less than a week to stop any given system. If a neighborhood saved food and resources to stay at home for a week and have a block party it would dramatically effect their county tax revenue and they could make changes needed when that happened. Imagine if a state or country did not move their money, meaning no shopping no paying bills nothing. No tax revenue in a system that needs it every second. They stop working we fix the issue, which is large centralization. Problems solved.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. Some excellent and very original suggestions, BioHorizon! And welcome to DU!
I especially liked this...

--

"See it would take less than a week to stop any given system. If a neighborhood saved food and resources to stay at home for a week and have a block party it would dramatically effect their county tax revenue and they could make changes needed when that happened. Imagine if a state or country did not move their money, meaning no shopping no paying bills nothing. No tax revenue in a system that needs it every second. They stop working we fix the issue, which is large centralization. Problems solved."

--

Food for thought (and mobilization!).
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. I agree
Anyone else up for a national Block party? :)

I do think it would take some thoughtful planning. As simply a block party, catered by Walmart, with all the Coors you can drink, Pepsi and the US Army would be happy to sponsor it, if you get my drift.

But turning a national strike into a giant celebration of community, well, isn't that the very point of it all?
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. I may be over reacting, but.....Its the end of the world as we know it
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Entire (even leaking) reactors have been lost at sea on several occasions...
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 11:33 AM by OneTenthofOnePercent
as well as russia litterally dumping radioactive nuclear waste at sea until the 1990's. I don't think some categorically low-level fukushima waste in the largest ocean in ghte world is going to be "the end of the world as we know it"
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lutefisk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Here is a list of some of those incidents.
"As a result of accidents, some 51 nuclear warheads were lost into sea (44 Soviet and 7 U.S. However, at least one Soviet warhead was recovered). Also, seven nuclear reactors (5 Soviet and 2 U.S.) from three Soviet and two U.S. nuclear-powered submarines have been lost at sea due to accidents. Another 19 nuclear reactors from nuclear-powered vessels have been deliberately dumped at sea (18 Soviet and 1 U.S.)."

http://archive.greenpeace.org/comms/nukes/ctbt/read3.ht...
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. That doesn't even count the dumping of radioactive waste.


Barrel of radioactive waste on the steep continental slope at a depth below sea level of about 2,000 feet (610 meters). Photo courtesy of R. Dryer, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

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mysterysoup Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
41. It doesn't say they were LEAKING.
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mysterysoup Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
42. These submarine reactors were TINY.
They did not have 4000 tons of nuclear fuel in them as does Fukushima. By contrast, Chernobyl only had 180 tons.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. And THAT is supposed to be reassuring?
?
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Been happening since the 50's... and we're still here aren't we?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Fameous Last Words.
Is your argument really,
"We've been irradiating the planet since the '50s,
so its safe to continue increasing the dosage?"

As BIG as our planet seems,
it IS a Closed System.


That argument was used on Easter Island as the last tree was cut down.

I knew an Alcoholic who used the same argument.
"I've been Drinking & Driving for years, and never had an accident!"
He killed a family of five.
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Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. yeah with ever increasing numbers of retardation, autism, birth defects....
Or just plain old dead like many people who lived around chernobyl.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. The accumulative damage we are doing to our planet is irreversible
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 07:54 PM by OwnedByFerrets
Maybe if we were actually TRYING to reverse it, but we aren't. Like it our not, we are killing our planet faster than slower.
Your facts were NO help to my state of mind.
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mysterysoup Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
40. Please give an example or a link to your headline claim.
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Go google one of the many nuclear military vessels Russia or the US has lost at sea...
and military naval reactors use HIGHLY enriched (even weapons grade enriched) fuel so they never need refueled during the reactors service life.

Speaking of sumarines ALONE, there have been at least 7 nuclear submarines lost - some often containing multiple reactors on board. And dont forget about dozens of nuclear bombs/warheads lost at sea too.

Just google it... it's easy info to find.
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Oh please...
The US used to dump literally tones radioactive waste directly into the oceans just off both coasts. The army used to fill old ships with radioactive material and scuttle them. We & the Russians have lost nuclear subs (entire reactors). Some countries are today dumping overboard radioactive waste into the oceans.

Compared to how bad we've treated the oceans so far, this is a pittance. It's just getting news coverage. Unfortunately, a ship dropping barrels of spent fuel overboard doesn't get any coverage even though it's impact is far higher.
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mysterysoup Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
43. La la la la la!
4000 tons of nuclear material, including plutonium, are at Fukushima. How many tons have been have been dumped in the ocean in the past, Your Complacency?
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Are you suggesting all 4000 tons of nuclear material are scheduled to be dumped into the sea?
Because that's because what the camparison you just make sounds like... :shrug:
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
11. So we're not going to have to nuke our fish before eating?
hmmmmmf mother fuckers, why not just nuke the whole fucking planet and get it over with quickly. Fucking A.
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Go to the Gulf of Mexico for Chemo and the Pacific for radiation.
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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. It gives a whole new meaning to
nuke your food, as we say around here for microwave.
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MurrayDelph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
17. In related news
sushi restaurants in Japan have introduced a new treat:

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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. Geez, I thought that's what they'd been doing all along, I guess they are finally admitting it.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
20. The sea? It's the great fixer of all things wrong!
Yep. And no amount of poison or radiation can ever change that!

Sorry. I just think we are going to hear shit like that very soon, once again.
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
24. A silt curtain in the ocean?
that makes me feel secure.


"No mercy, no power but its own controls it. Panting and snorting like a mad battle steed that has lost its rider, the masterless ocean overruns the globe."
from Moby Dick
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
28. For perspective
Pacific Ocean holds 3 trillion swimming pools full of water.

This release would fill 5 swimming pools
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. You should listen to Dr. Bill from KGO
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 07:37 PM by CountAllVotes
That sounds like what he was saying on his radio program last night. Just a little plutonium here, a little there ... nothing to see here so move right along.

:puke:

:kick:

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Yes, we should treat the ocean as a giant garbage can
Like we have been doing with the atmosphere i.e. CO2. What could go wrong?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
34. And they are pouring 7 TONS EVERY HOUR into the sea ---
that's according to Thom Hartmann today!!

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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #34
46. 7 tons of water sounds like alot more than it really is.
That's really only about 30 rubbermaid trash cans full of water. Heck, one cubic meter of water is just about 1 ton itself.

As a point of comparison, it would take close to 11000 similar rubbermaid trash cans to fill a standard olympic sized pool.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
35. Capitalism is suicidal --
Let's junk this system, the chase for the meaningless dollar bill --

and move on to a system based on human values!!

All of this is simply judging everything by the yardstick of a dollar bill!!

Guess we have to ask BP what our ocean is worth?

And GE and Japan what the Pacific is worth?

How nuts are we?

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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. +1000
:thumbsup:

K&R
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