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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:09 AM
Original message
Govt did not reveal high level radiation estimate
Source: NHK

It has been learned that the Japanese government withheld the release of computer projections indicating high levels of radioactivity in areas more than 30 kilometers from the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The estimates were made on March 16th following explosions at the plant by an institute commissioned by the government using a computer system called SPEEDI. The system made its projections on the assumption that radioactive substances had been released for 24 hours from midnight on March 14th, based on the available data.

But the government was reluctant to reveal the SPEEDI projections, and did not release them until March 23rd.
The released data showed that higher levels of radioactive substances would flow over areas to the northwest and southwest of the plant.

The estimates showed that the radiation would exceed 100 millisieverts in some areas more than 30 kilometers from the nuclear plant if people remained outdoors for 24 hours between March 12th and 24th.

<snip>

Read more: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/04_10.html
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. Once again
the government lies by reflex, and yet expects us to believe them.
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. Very repeatable scenario
This is merely a dangerous even more apocalyptic scenario than the BP disaster.

It amazes me when there's a crisis of this magnitude that governments let FOR PROFIT CORPORATIONS make decisions on the clean up.

The foremost force in making decisions for these Captains of Industry is MAXIMIZING PROFITS FOR SHAREHOLDERS. Public safely and well being of the planet may conflict with the profit motive? To the point where these corporate sociopath decision makers could waste the lives and health of millions if they determine their corporation will make more profit by killing people by radioactive emissions than saving them?

My conclusion from the Japan tragedy is that multi-national and large corporations are more powerful and autonomous than their governments.

that is more that a little out of whack when you compile the potential human misery and suffering from this radioactive cluster-fuck, That will perpetuate such misery for decades to come.

People of the World are being extremely ill served by their modern governments. Hasn't FASCISM proven to be an undesirable form of government, after all? Why, then, is America and the industrialized world allowing it to happen?

-90% jimmy
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. +++++
Yeah. :( It's not working, people. :shrug: Sooner we face it the better.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Give them a fucking bonus! A big one! They deserve it.
:sarcasm: just in case.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. really - their safety record is exemplary - it was an act of gawd after all
not a management decision to build a string of nuclear reactors with spent fuel rods stationed on a fault line and in the "ring of fire" tsunami zone.

:sarcasm:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. K/R -- +1000%
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Oh, I'm sure for-profit corps would never cut corners in cleanup!
Also, I have this bridge for sale, cheap!
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
5. No surprise there, but this is tragic for those told to stay inside within the 30 km zone. What now?
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caraher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
6. That's ridiculous
If they had reason to believe dose rates would reach 100 mSv per 24 hours they probably should have advised evacuation. Perhaps the US knew about these projections when they gave Americans the advice to leave?

Any idea what actual exposures were? This seems orders of magnitudes higher than anything reported so far. The model may have been unduly pessimistic; but if it was a credible projection I'd like to know the rationale for advising people to stay put...
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Cesium was found 30 miles from the plant...
...in the soil. However, the evacuation area was 18 feet. After the Cesium was found, Japanese
officials refused to extend that evacuation zone.

Unfrickenbelievable, right!

If they extend the zone, it gives the appearance that the problem is growing. They're all about
controlling panic right now.

It's obvious that the corporations are calling the shots, and deciding everything - from the
evacuation zones to what information gets out.

It's fk'n shame.

Meanwhile, we sit around wondering if the radiation levels that are here in the US are dangerous
to our health. They're all lying in order to quell negativity. So how can we trust what
any of them have to say?

Radiation levels were taken in various part of the United States, and instead of reporting the levels,
it was reported that the readings needed to be re-calibrated or readjusted. What the hell does that mean?
Does that mean they saw spikes? Harmful numbers? It's just crazy.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. we have to encourage 'rebel scientists' to gauge the REAL levels of radiation
.........hopefully they will come forward & be protected, considering that nuke engineer's "suicide"

one thing I've noticed is their bullshit PR is easy to see.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Very good idea StarsInHerHair. Hopefully there are some out there doing just that. nt
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. I Think the Next Election Might Hit the Ruling Party Like a Tsunami
The Japanese people are scared and they are angry. They used to trust their government, but not anymore!
The government has been lying to them, and the lies are killing people.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. And far too many Americans still trust their government and elected officials--!!
From what they're saying they are going to continue to drag their feet on this

whole thing -- presumably not wanting to come to any period of time when there

may be accountability for keeping this thing open --

Meanwhile, the destruction to the area -- and the impact of it all on Japan may

leave citizens in difficult straights to actually deal with elections?

Ironic that we began this idiotic atomic era by dropping bombs on Japan -- and

somehow they were talked into getting all their energy from nuclear reactors!!

Sad -- but must have been quite some sales pitch!!



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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is so frickin aggravating!!!!!
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 12:04 PM by CoffeeCat
I hate this drill.

Something horrible happens. The information disseminated is fuzzy and officials are obtuse.

Then, we ask questions. We read and try to decipher what is really happening. People call
us "crazy" and "paranoid" and we fight all of those battles.

Then, slowly--the bad news begins to trickle out. The dishonesty is revealed. We discover
that we were right--that radioactive materials in milk realllllllly *is* a bad thing--as we
knew all along! We find out that they've been lying and playing fast and loose with people's
lives. We discover that the radiation levels in the US *ARE* something to be concerned about.

Then, we all stand around--in a bad situation that we argued was a BAD situation--but we
were made to feel like idiots for being concerned.

Meanwhile, the "radiation isn't so bad...you're all paranoid" crowd is nowhere to be found.

I'm just sick of it. Totally sick of it. We watched people in the Gulf go through this with
Corexit and the oil everywhere. We were told that no one would get sick and that the seafood
would be just fine. Anyone who questioned that was ridiculed or asked to provide "proof" of
their assertions.

Same with the "safe air" at ground zero. I'm just so sick of this....SO SICK OF IT!!
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Yes indeed to everything you said!! nt
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. Good to see another post on this since I think it's important
Here's mine:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I'm also trying to connect some of the dots with other action/inaction taken in that timeframe to gain a more accurate picture of how this has transpired.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Wow - they raised decontamination levels before they released the SPEEDI projections
And this is the "new normal" - from your thread:
Meanwhile, the government's task force to tackle nuclear accidents instructed municipal governments near the crisis-hit Fukushima plant on Monday to ease conditions under which they require people to undergo mandatory decontamination.

A radiation level of 100,000 counts per minute will be introduced as a new standard for decontamination, up from 6,000 counts per minute, the government said, adding that raising the bar will not endanger health.

...

By March 24, about 88,000 people have been screened, they said. Of them, 98 showed readings of over 100,000 counts per minute -- a yardstick level that requires ''decontamination'' procedures.



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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. I am wondering what the SPEEDI projections have been
after the dates in your OP.

Have you seen anything on that yet?


And, yeah, looked at separately the info in your O.P. and the info about the change in standards each look terrible. Taken together, they look damning.
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Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. so...are they telling us the right numbers now?
i stocked up on milk and felt foolish....now i'm kind of glad i did.
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
14. Shocking that a government didn't tell the truth.
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
17. Dr. Kaku
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5UvAH11CjM

This may be Dr. Kaku's last GMA appearance. Possibly because his proposal to fix this mess is to create a team of the best physics and nuclear and scientific brains in the world and empower them 100% to come up with a fix that maximizes all factors possible to minimize this radioactive horror.

I suspect that the PTB didn't like the Dr.'s message, so I don't think Michio has been on GMA or any other MSM outlet for the last few weeks.

I hope the people most responsible for the shitty decision making on this are some time in the future identified and held to account in an International Court.

Just like they did with the entire GW Bush White House for starting illegal wars justified by lies and exploitation of 9-11.

-90% Jimmy

:sarcasm:
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
21. And no doubt our government is lying about it too
radioactive rainwater is not safe. Neither was corexit in the Gulf.
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