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Arizona shootings: Loughner's lawyer wants trial in 2013

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Zephie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:26 PM
Original message
Arizona shootings: Loughner's lawyer wants trial in 2013
Source: AZ Central

The judge in the case against accused Tucson shooter Jared Loughner has suggested a September trial date, but Loughner's defense attorney wants to push the trial back to January 2013, citing the need to gather mitigating evidence to save Loughner from a potential death penalty.

Loughner, 22, is charged with 49 counts related to the Jan. 8 murders of six people and wounding of 13 more, including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, outside a Tucson-area supermarket where Giffords was meeting with constituents.

Loughner will appear in a Tucson courtroom on Wednesday to be arraigned on the new charges. U.S. District Judge Larry A. Burns also intends to set a trial date at that hearing. In earlier court documents, Burns indicated that he would set the date of Sept. 20.

At least 14 of the counts make Loughner eligible for the death penalty, although a decision by prosecutors as to whether to seek it is likely months away.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/03/07/20110...
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Very clever move by the defense
Asking for the trial to begin after the world ends.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I guess we all get the death penalty
This trial is going to cost 10x what it would to send the f*cker to jail forever.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Giggety.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. "Anytime after 12/22/2012 would be OK with us, Yurronur."
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Hehe!
:D
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savalez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. LOL
I read that, did this :spray:, then this :rofl:
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. why not send him away for life ? especially when you are 22 knowing
you still have years ahead and your adult life just getting started but for you that's all it's going to be.

look at sirhan sirhan . it would suck to be living in that state but that's what they deserve for what they did.


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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I agree. Capital punishment is unnecessary & ineffective.
I once did a little statistical analysis & discovered that states with the DP had murder rates more than 2x those of non-DP states.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. What was their murder rate prior to institution of the death penalty?
Or, can such a comparison be made?


My opposition to the DP is centered on the fact that we execute innocent people.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. It may have to do with the underlying culture of the state.
Here's something I wrote a couple of years ago when WI was considering instituting the Death Penalty. (On rereading, I find my memory played me false; the murder rate in DP v. non-DP states is not quite 2:1.)

As an ex-field psychologist for the Wisconsin Department of Corrections, I imagine I have met more murderers than the average citizen, and I have very little sympathy for them as a class of people. Nevertheless I oppose the death penalty. Why? I assure you that my position has absolutely nothing to do with tender feelings for anyone who would deliberately kill others. Rather, I am very worried about the consequences for the state as a whole if we enact a death penalty.

Four arguments are commonly made in opposition to the death penalty. Let me review them before moving on to the particular concerns I want to discuss. Here, then, are the traditional arguments:

First, we have no need for a death penalty to protect ourselves from murderers because Wisconsin law permits us to put them in prison for life without hope of ever being released.

Second, it is expensive to seek the death penalty. Studies in other states have shown that it costs more to sentence a murderer to death and then wade through the appeals process than it would have to simply imprison the criminal for life.

Third, there is always the possibility of executing an innocent person. Some people seem to think that the use of DNA evidence is an absolutely certain means of avoiding such errors, but that is simply not so. Any number of events, ranging from misbehavior on the part of police officers to errors at the crime lab, could bring about terrible miscarriages of justice.

And fourth, there is no evidence that the death penalty deters crime. Just consider for a momentcan you imagine criminals thinking to themselves, I want to go on a killing spree, but they will put me to death if they catch me, so I wont do it. However, I would go out and murder a bunch of people if all I had to face was life without parole.

If you think the death penalty is somehow going to make you safer, how do you explain this?Murder rates per 100,000 population range from a low of 1.2 in Maine to a high of 13.0 in Louisiana. Twelve states, including Wisconsin, have no death penalty. The average murder rate for these states is 2.90. The remaining 38 states have the death penalty. Their murder rate per hundred thousand residents is 5.3. The probability of this being a chance result is less than one in a hundred.

At 3.3 murders per 100,000, Wisconsin has a slightly higher murder rate than the average for states without the death penalty, but considerably lower than the average for states with the death penalty. Why, then, should we be in any hurry to legalize the death penalty and thereby join the group of states with the higher murder rates?

Another questionMight there be something about having a death penalty that causes states to have a higher murder rate? As a psychologist, I think there may be a connection. Let us make no bones about it. To approve the death penalty is to assert that it is permissible for a large number of peoplethe stateto gang up and put one of its members to death. When a state authorizes executions, it is in effect saying that killing is not only permissible, but is in fact desirable, in some circumstances, including circumstances that do not involve immediate self-defense. Children learn both behaviors and attitudes by the example of their elders. From what we know of child development, there is every reason to imagine that children who grow up in a society that approves the killing of human beings will have lower inhibitions against killing than do children whose society teaches an absolute intolerance of killing.

Wisconsin has executed only one criminal since attaining statehood in 1848, and explicitly forbade the practice in 1853. This is a proud tradition that I believe to be worth keeping.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Was this from 2003 or 1975?
I see two years with a murder rate of 3.3 :)

I'm glad Wisconsin didn't bring back the death penalty, but I am unsure of the correlation between a death penalty and a higher murder rate. One could be the result of the other, going either way, depending.

On the upside, the murder rate in that state has declined to 2.5 without it. Still, not correlation, but an improvement nonetheless.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. I wrote it in 2008; don't remember where I got the data.
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christx30 Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. In my mind, I'd like the
death penalty without the execution. Put him in a cell with a bed. Give him food. He speaks to his attorney. And he just sits there until he dies. No phone calls, no letters. No TV. Just knowing that those 4 walls are all his eyes will see for the rest of his life, seems like that would be a worse punishment than any needle in the world could be.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. "seems like that would be a worse punishment than any needle in the world could be"
I agree with that statement, which is why I'm against your proposal.

Even if there are those who deserve such penalties, that LAST FUCKING THING this country needs is to be even more cruel to anyone.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. ?? Are they trying to "conceive" a team of personal supporters?
What on earth would take two years?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. Another Presidential inauguration?
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. 23 months to gather exculpatory evidence? What utter bullshit.
How about two months? Do we know what is motivating the lawyers?
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. What motivates the lawyers?
A hunger for justice.

And, perhaps, an hourly rate of pay, to milk for as long as possible.

And some time in front of a camera.

:hi:
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. Court-appointed lawyers don't make a fortune.
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #32
40. Judy Clarke is no court-appointed attorney
Public funds may be used to pay for her time, and there may be other sources of money, but I'm sure she's charging a goodly fee, more than the average P.D. flunky. (Not that Public Defenders are flunkies, but they don't make Ms Clarke's hourly rate.)

How may court-appointed defenders have their own wiki?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Clarke

:hi:
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
25. A duty to zealously represent their client within the law

There's something wrong with asking?

If the lawyers do not try for every possible advantage, then Loughner goes free because he received ineffective assistance of counsel.

Is that what you want?
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. But asking for the absurd doesn't seem very effective either.
How could you possibly justify such a request? I don't think "every possible advantage" is gained by making yourself look preposterous.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. First off, there wouldn't be a trial until well into 2012 in the first place

...as the respective state and federal prosecutors have not decided among themselves who is going to go first, and what charges they are going to proceed on.

It is highly unlikely that the defense is looking for exculpatory evidence. However, there is going to be a major battle over this guy's psychology when it comes to capacity to stand trial, participate in his own defense, and on the ultimate question of his capacity at the time of the incident. That kind of psychoanalysis is not something you are going to get in a couple of sessions with Joe Psychologist, and is likely going to require an extensive review of this guy's life, starting with, say, his kindergarten teacher.

Shit takes time, and you'd be amazed what our funding-starved court dockets actually look like.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. I have no trouble with the concept of shit taking time, but . . .
19 months for this one process? Not credible.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. By your reasoning, trying for every possible advantage deprives him of his ability to go free,
making lawyers who try for every possibly advantage bad lawyers.

Why do you hate prosecutors?

(j/k, if it's not obvious.)
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. Yeah, but lawyers also have a duty...
... to not frivolously waste the court's time and delay judicial proceedings (Model Rule 3.1).
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. re-scheduling doesn't waste the court's time
Edited on Wed Mar-09-11 12:51 AM by jberryhill
See my post above on just the psych analysis and background above.

Whether the requested time is reasonable is up to the court.

Mumia Abu-Jamal murdered a cop in 1981. Tell me more about delay.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. What else will happen in January 2013?
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. President Palin issues a pardon? n/t
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drmeow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. If you don't want the death
penalty - try to plea. I think it is your only hope in this case.

Reality - he wants 23 months for the passion to die down and other issues to take center stage.
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virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I think you nailed it on waiting for the passion to die down.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. He's hoping President Palin will pardon him and make him Secretary of Religious Purity. n/t
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. I do believe he was hoping for a Republicon President to be taking office in January 2013.
Plus, passions may cool in our magpie culture. If neither happens, he'll be no worse off nor no better off than he is now, so nothing to lose by waiting.
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Sonicwall Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. Request denied. His trial will start within the next 90 days
and will face life in prison in solitary confinement with minimal contact with the guards.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. That soon?
Why not wait until after he dies of old age?
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. Justice delayed is justice denied - try this RW asshole assassin ASAP and ban 30 round magazines
yup
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
21. the year after the election? I smell a little political motivation
sorta weakening the right-wing claim that Loughner was apolitical.

Don't many murder cases go to trial 2-3 or heck even more years after the incident/arrest?
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the other one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
24. Would the trial reflect badly on the GOP in an election year?
Could be...
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Maybe he thinks a Republicon might be elected and a Republicon admin, in office
Edited on Tue Mar-08-11 06:37 PM by No Elephants
as of January 2013 might go easier on Loughner.

If the lawyer (or crazy Loughner) were worried only about the 2012 election, trial could begin fairly early in NOvember, 2012, but the lawyer asked for January 2013.
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elias49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
38. The wheels of justice always turn so much more slowly
than the wheels of INjustice!
Why does a crime that took less than a minute to commit take a year to be prosecuted?
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
41. yeah! World will end in 2012 and joke will be on us!
Okay, I don't really believe that at all.
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