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Hero of New Life church shootings says leaders turned her away when she told them she was gay

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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 06:21 PM
Original message
Hero of New Life church shootings says leaders turned her away when she told them she was gay
Edited on Fri Feb-25-11 06:49 PM by Demonaut
Source: gazette.com

Thanks for saving our lives, but please leave now, because we don’t like what you stand for.

That is the message Jeanne Assam says she received last year when she informed the powers-that-be at New Life Church that she is gay. It was Assam, you’ll remember, who was widely hailed as a hero for ending a murderous rampage at New Life Dec. 9, 2007.

Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/don-113486-new-hero.html#ixzz1F19qVd4F


Read more: http://www.gazette.com/news/don-113486-new-hero.html



gay bullets?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. You've linked to Denver Post, which is part of RightHaven. n/t
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. sufficient fix?
the denverpost article is a link to the gazette
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. When the Judgment Day comes...
self-righteous scumbags like this minister will be the first one to walk the plank.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I doubt that will happen. nt.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. I know, so do I...
but it makes me feel better to know that it's true. :)
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PoliticAverse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. This reminds me of the Oliver Sipple story...
I recall at the time the media reported that Ford delayed thanking Sipple when he found out Sipple was gay (but this was later denied).

http://www.redroom.com/blog/geri-spieler/oliver-sipple-the-bystander-who-saved-pres-fords-lfe
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think that works. Thanks! n/t
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. "So we don't have to debate about what we should think about homosexual activity...
... it's written in The Bible." -- Ted Haggard, New Life Church.


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scribble Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. Christians are better than this ...
The problem is that nobody knows that most Christians are appalled by this behavior, because SANE Christians keep much too silent in the face of this kind of fundamentalist discrimination.

... so in the end, real Christians are hurt even worse than Ms. Assam has been hurt.

But unlike Ms. Assam, real Christians COULD do something about it if they chose to. All they would need to do, is speak up. Maybe invite her to visit THEIR Churches this Sunday.

sc
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. "real Christians are hurt even worse than Ms. Assam has been hurt." bullshit!
they hurt others with their silence. if they disapprove they need to speak up and end this.... but no.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. all that is necessary for evil to florish is
for good people to say nothing. Xians have done and said nothing for years they are irrelevant and have ceded their pulpit to the nutsacks. They carry the guilt for their inaction
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. What denomination is this bigoted church?
Many Christian denominations would not do such a horrible thing, but others would, and do.
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Nondenominational. Charismatic. Evangelical. Megachurch.
All ingredients for setting up a cult of personality around a leader who is not bound by creed or ideology. I can't help but think about Jim Jones, his brainwashed followers & their mass suicide - the logical conclusion of a philosophy that deludes its adherents into believing they have the inside track to communing with Sky Daddy.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. bigoted church? Christianity condemns homosexuals to death.
This church is just obeying the Bible. Which is part of why Christianity is immoral and evil.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I just keep remembering the Saint who wrote the Rules for Templers
SAINT BERNARD OF CLAIRVAUX was the saint's name (He used a modification of the Rules of St Benedict), and in St Bernard's rules, the Temples were to burn candles 24 hours seven days a week to make sure no would would have homosexual sex, he then he made another rule that if one of the Templers would be caught have sex, either with a woman or a man, the punishment was the same, they had to eat their meals away form the common table that the rest of the Templers ate on, until they did something to redeem themselves for whatever sin they had done.

As to the bible itself, four stories relate to homosexuality. The oldest is Noah, after he had landed his arc, he discovered hoe to make wine. One day after drinking his wine, his sons saw him and raped him. The assault is generally viewed as an attack on homosexuals, but the rear attack is on the RAPE OF THEIR OWN FATHER.

The next story is Sodom, in that story some angels come to Lot to tell him to leave Sodom. The men of Sodom demand that Lot leave them have they way with the Angels, Lot refuses, This is a two fold attacks, first it is a story on how a person MUST protect guest in their home (in this story of being Raped) even at the cost of injury to their family members (He offered his two daughters to the rapists). It is also clear Lot would NOT have stool in the way of the messengers of God having sex. Thus again NOT an attack on homosexuals per se, but an attack on involuntary sex.

The third story of the bible in the order to kill anyone you see have homosexual sex. While on its face appears to be an attack on homosexuals, you have to understand the terms and context. Ancient Egyptian and Canaan religions seems to have a huge homosexual component, but done in public to show your support for those pagan gods. The vast majority of people had sex, even then, in the privacy of their homes, thus if you saw someone having sex it was a rejection of Judaism and an embrace of the pagan religions. Thus the visual homosexual act was NOT even a real sex act, but an act showing that person support for an enemy tribe of Judaism. The ancient jews were NOT going to tolerate that attack on both their religion AND ethnicity, thus it became a clear rule if you SAW someone having homosexual sex, both people had to be killed. On the other hand, only the persons in the house had the right to enter the house and thus unless the homosexual act was done in public (And that does NOT include Kissing or hugging, things heterosexuals men do in the Middle East to this day) no one other then a family member would ever see such an act (and even then it can be kept private).

The fourth situation was St Paul's Attack on Homosexuals as a "Abomination". To under stand this you have to realized that St Paul was writing in the Greek of his time period, and that Greek has several words for Homosexuals. The word St Paul used is restricted to that situation where ground men would go to a temple and have sex with 12-14 year old boys. The Boys had NO choice in this sex, for they were slaves, and as long as their owners were paid, they had to let the older men rape them. That is the abomination St Paul is attacking in his letter, but it is a concept Fundamentalists do not like, they prefer the broader English term for Homosexuals to include ALL Homosexual conduct.

Just a comment on why the Saint who wrote the rules of Conduct for the Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Jerusalem wrote the rules he did. As one Catholic Theology told me years ago, under Catholic, Orthodox and most main line Protestant theology, you have the "Hierarchy of Sins". Under the Hierarchy of Sins the only severe sins (the sins that gets you condemned to hell) are a violation of the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments only list on sex crime and that is Adultery (And that is to make sure men only had to support their own children, by the nature of Child Birth the mother of all children are known, the Father has to be determined, if the mother only had sex with one man, the father of that child had to be him, thus the rule of Adultery was adopted and it was a harsh rule but tied in with paternity and support of children and until the introduction of Blood tests and later on DNA Tests the most reliable way to ensure fathers they were supporting their own children not the children of anther man,).

The Primitive Rule of the Knights Templers:
http://www.templiers.org/regle1-eng.php

http://www.the-orb.net/encyclop/religion/monastic/comprule.html

Rules of St Benedict, which the tempeler's rules were based on:
http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/rule_st_benedict_e.htm#_Toc74181905

Side Note: A lot of junk has been released about the Knights Templars, anything to do with the Masons probably is a repeat of something made since about 1800 (WHen the first reports of the Masons tracing themselves back to the Knights Templar appear, 500 years after the order was suppressed, probably has no basis is fact but a good story in the early 1800s among European Masons).

Thus it is NOT traditional Christian teaching to say Homosexual is a severe sins (It is a sin, but so is any sex outside of marriage). For non sever sins (or venial sins) you will be punished, but it will be just a delay in getting into heaven NOT a denial of Heaven. Severe Sins (Or Mortal Sins, using older terminology) gets one damned to hell, but that requires a clear violation of one of the ten Commandments AND no pray for forgiveness while you are alive.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-11 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Where did you get the story that Noah's boys raped him?
Genesis 9:20-29, where they saw him drunk and naked, so they covered him? I'm not seeing rape in there. Is this specific to a certain translation?
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. Assholes. And she learned not save such assholes again. nt
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. i doubt it...she would likely do exactly the same thing were the situation to arise. nt
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Probably. I was just trying to express my disdain for the asshole church. nt
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Surprised by the civility of the comments on the Gazette article.
Colorado Springs isn't particularly known to be gay friendly, I guess the birthers are realizing to STFU on this issue. I'd bet money New Life lied when they said she was welcome.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. They'd rather be dead? I say, should've let them be dead instead of doing the right thing.
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auntsue Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. I just went to facebook to comment and send a friend request
I, too, am a "late bloomer". I grew up in a repressive religious enviornment and didnt even know there was just thing as gay until I saw it in "the Children's Hour". Slowly I figured out the truth about me and it was an even longer process to acceptance. The Rector, Ed Bacon, at All Saints Pasadena in California, says: "Being Gay is a gift from God - in the same way eye color, hair color etc. is a gift from God. God loves us all just as we are."
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
18. Or maybe she's lying.... again
When the whole new life shooting thing happened it was clearly established that she only hit Matthew Murray twice once in the wrist and once in the hip. The ME stated that Murray shot himself in the mouth and the ballistics matched the bullet in his brain to his gun.

Jeanne Assam never once disputed this and even stated once or twice that she was grateful that she hadn't killed Murray

Until she got a book deal (God the Gunman and Me. In which she thoroughly denounces he "sinful homosexual lifestyle"and claims that God "delivered her" BTW)Then she was all over the news talking about how she had killed Murray. She was even confronted , on camera, by a local reporter (KRDO's Heather Skold)w/ the forensic evidence that Murray killed himself and still claimed that she had killed him.

Whether or not she's gay is of no moment the fact that she is a lying media whore who is trying to extend her 15 minutes ( and sell her book) is

My guess is that she told the Pastor she was gay and got told that because the doctrine of that church states that Homosexual behavior is unacceptable behavior for a Christian that she was welcome as a parishioner but not on the ministry staff.

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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
19. More religious nonsense that makes me vomit.
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Crowman1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-11 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
20. WELL THIS CHURCH DIDN'T HAVE PROBLEMS WITH HAVING A GAY PASTOR!
(cough) TED HAGGARD (cough)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6rSjrBhUIA

I guess if you have no power, then will be tossed away like yesterday's trash.
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