Leader of Teachers’ Union Urges Dismissal Overhaul

[alp227]

Source: The New York Times

Responding to criticism that tenure gives even poor teachers a job for life, Randi Weingarten, the president of the American Federation of Teachers, announced a plan Thursday to overhaul how teachers are evaluated and dismissed.

It would give tenured teachers who are rated unsatisfactory by their principals a maximum of one school year to improve. If they did not, they could be fired within 100 days.

Teacher evaluations, long an obscure detail in an educator’s career, have moved front and center as school systems try to identify which teachers are best at improving student achievement, and to remove ineffective ones.

The issue has erupted recently, with many districts anticipating layoffs because of slashed budgets. Mayors including Michael R. Bloomberg of New York and Cory A. Booker of Newark have attacked seniority laws, which require that teacher dismissals be based on length of experience rather than on competency.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/education/25teacher.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

[madfloridian]

1. Randi is one of Eli Broad's cronies.....she's from the "reformers"

Don't know how she got to be head of the union.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/6309

[alp227]

2. so that's why she'd defend merit pay i suppose

Oh dear. Are you implying that Weingarten's a sell-out, not really standing up for the real interests of teachers?

Weingarten was on PBS NewsHour last week discussing the Wisconsin union debate.

Reading further down this article, though, I notice this passage. Do you have any more info about this org (www.edtrust.org)?

Kati Haycock, president of the Education Trust, which seeks to narrow the achievement gap for poor students in part by raising teacher quality, said, “The overall proposal is a big step forward.”

And what problem do you have with Weingarten's proposal this time? How would you evaluate teachers if you got to run the schools?

[msanthrope]

11. Yes...Randi, the head of the second-largest teacher's union is anti-union.

You should read some journals.

Apparently, Randi Weingarten, who successfully managed the largest pay increase for NYC teachers, EVER, when she was the head of the AFT in NYC, is anti-teacher.

Randi Weingarten, who now heads the 2nd largest teacher's union, is anti-union.

It's amazing, isn't it?

[Starry Messenger]

15. Ed Trust is yet another Gates and Broad mouthpiece

http://www.edtrust.org/dc/about/funders

These foundations support the work of The Education Trust:

The Eli and Edythe Broad Foundation
Carnegie Corporation of New York
The Annie E. Casey Foundation
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
The Ford Foundation
Walter & Elise Haas Fund
The William and Flora Hewlett Foundation
Walter S. Johnson Foundation
The Joyce Foundation
The James Irvine Foundation
W.K. Kellogg Foundation
Lumina Foundation for Education
MetLife Foundation
Karen & Christopher Payne Family Foundation
The Skillman Foundation
State Farm Companies Foundation
The Wallace Foundation
The Walton Family Foundation


http://www.edtrust.org/dc/about/board-of-directors

Stacey Childress
Deputy Director of Education, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

[madfloridian]

28. I was constantly evaluated when I was teaching. All the time.

That is yet another right wing talking point, that teachers are not evaluated. We had informal and formal evaluations, drop in visits, planned visits to the classroom. Visits from county leaders, all kinds of people dropping in constantly.

[madfloridian]

29. Look at the funders of Ed Trust and decide for yourself.

http://www.edtrust.org/dc/about/funders

[msanthrope]

13. She got to be head of the union because of voting. You know, democracy?

Obviously, the teachers of the AFT, (including the teachers of NYC) like her.

[Freddie Stubbs]

46. She became head of the union by being elected at the union's national convention:

http://www.ny1.com/?SecID=1000&ArID=83712

[michaz]

3. Principals are not the ones to solely determine if a teacher is "satisfactory".

Has any teacher here worked in a school where the principal was not working "up to satisfaction"? Have you ever worked in a school where a principal was out to get a teacher because he/she simply did not like the teacher? It happens all the time. Who is going to rate them?

[AngryAmish]

4. It is unique to education where sometimes a supervisor does not like an underling

In no other profession there can be a personality conflict between a supervisor and employee that results in bad results for the underling, even firing. Education is unique.

From medicine, to law, to insurance adjusting...just about every job allows the lower rank employee to rate their bosses and get rid of them if the bosses are not up to snuff. This is standard in every American workplace.

[eilen]

5. Do you have a sarcasm thingy?

I have worked on hospital floors and seen managers run nurses off by cracking down on things they do not even look at with their favored ones. One gal got written up for doing exactly what she was supposed to do and when confronting the manager was told they would not remove it from her file. Seems the nurse in the shift before her sent a very elderly patient down 3 x in one week for a test involving contrast dye-- which crapped out her kidneys. (Note; we know the doctor ordered it but as nurses we have to say NO if it will hurt the patient, as a trained nurse, we have safeguard our patients). The rescue protocol involves IV Mucomist. Normally Mucomist is given by mouth but for this rescue, it is IV. Since the idiot who screwed up the pt's kidneys was not aware of it, she wrote up her colleague and wagged her tongue about it all over the unit. The seasoned senior nurse saw the writing on the wall and took early retirement. She said over 200 senior experienced nurses have left the state hospital. They are purposefully targetting experienced older employees.

All I have to say is, don't get sick in July and hire someone private duty to sit with you if you are in the hospital. Labor wars are not just happening in Red States. The executive, congressional and state branches of government have all ready declared war on the poor, the unemployed, education and healthcare. They are only interested in insurance companies, banks and private corporations.

Pretty soon they will try and pass laws that prevent us from voting unless we are landowners, or free of default from student loans or if we are receiving public assistance of any kind.

[groundloop]

7. It IS NOT unique to education

That behavior goes on everywhere. Personality conflicts between a supervisor and employee can often result in dismissal.

And nowhere have I seen a job that "allows the lower rank employee to rate their bosses and get rid of them if the bosses are not up to snuff". I've worked a lot of different jobs on the way to current position, and I'm sorry but your claims just don't match up to what I've seen.

As far as the original post - I've got mixed feelings on this proposal. I suppose that there are unqualified teachers scattered around, and we certainly don't want them teaching our kids, but I don't think a bad review from a single principal should be grounds for dismissal. IMHO, that proposal needs to be modified to include some sort of peer review to ensure fairness and accuracy.

[bemildred]

12. Are you out of your mind? nt

[msanthrope]

14. There are times you write posts that cut through the BS with

such clarity and such wit....

I envy this post.

[Psephos]

22. :) n/t

[hack89]

40. You are kidding, right?

I have never been able to evaluate a bad boss.

[Le Taz Hot]

6. You know,

more unscrupulous principals might begin disciplinary action against older teachers with, say Maters Degrees and who have reached the top of the pay scale and who may require a bit more medical resources than, say a younger teacher. And after seeing "no improvement" -- out with the old and in with the new, lower salaries and more pliable personnel who perhaps don't remember the good ole' days of collective bargaining. But I'm sure they don't have anything like that in mind. :mad:

[fittosurvive]

8. Imagine that...Firing someone for being a slacker.

What is the world coming to?

[groundloop]

9. WOW, what an understanding attitude

The point being made here is that it's possible for someone to lose their job not because their a "slacker" but merely because the boss doesn't like them. I've seen it happen in places I've worked, the person who was released was doing a good job but the supervisor basically didn't like them and convinced himself that this individual was worthless.

[fittosurvive]

10. Are you suggesting that this can only happen to teachers?

Or are you suggesting that there is no such thing as a bad teacher?

[groundloop]

17. Neither. Sounded like you were suggesting that teachers are NEVER wrongly terminated

[fittosurvive]

32. Actually, what I'm suggesting is that teachers are no different than the rest of us

and as such, they do not deserve special privileges.

[LanternWaste]

33. I think you conflate "special privileges" with "basic worker rights"

I think you conflate "special privileges" with "basic worker rights"

[fittosurvive]

34. I believe that most people would agree that you are pretty damn special if

you have a job that you can never be fired from.

[bemildred]

36. That's what's so special about having a union, Dude.

Those rights and protections were hard won. Being at the mercy of the whims of some boss or another is a bummer.

[fittosurvive]

37. Well, if the boss can't get rid of someone who is not doing the job they are paid to do,

they may as well get rid of all the bosses.

[bemildred]

38. Gosh, you say that like it would be a bad thing.

If the boss can't get rid of someone because he is not happy with them, that means you have a union that protects you from the bosses whims. Bosses don't get any special rights to act out their emotions, they have a negotiated contract, and they have to follow it just like everyone else.

[fittosurvive]

41. only if you are trying to stay in business...

[bemildred]

42. Who cares if you stay in business?

That is your problem.

[fittosurvive]

43. I don't have problems--I have solutions.

[bemildred]

44. I'm sure you try your best. nt

[fittosurvive]

39. .

[EstimatedProphet]

45. He's a randroid. Obviously his teachers failed, so that is what he's suggesting

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

47. Oh, those evil unions and public school teachers!

:eyes:

[bemildred]

16. The most fundamental right won by collective bargaining is not to be fired "at will".

If you don't have that, you have nothing.

[msanthrope]

18. This wouldn't allow you to be fired "at will."

I agree, principals should not be able to fire teachers without process. But, there should be a clear process that gets rid of unsatisfactory employees.

A fair process--not one that results in the NYC 'rubber rooms.'

FYI--this is playing out as the NYC teacher's union realizes that unless they reform their firing system, they are not getting a contract out of Bloomberg. So Randi will take the heat, and Mulgrew will eventually agree to reforming the firing process in NYC.

[bemildred]

19. Nobody should be able to fire any public employee "without process".

Who decides what is "unsatisfactory"? That is the fundamental question.

I am just pointing out that the Union's function is to represent the teachers, not to run the schools. It is the school administration that needs to be held to account for the shitty schools they provide and for scapegoating teachers for its own repeated failures. No amount of teacher bashing is going to improve the schools one iota.

[msanthrope]

20. I think you and I agree on many main points.

1) No public employee should be fired without process.

2) The union's function is to protect teachers--which is why the continual posting on DU about shoring up teacher's unions has NOTHING to do with the good of the students, and everything to do with self-protection, and pretending otherwise is false and misleading.

3) Teacher's unions are for the teachers. Not for the children.

4) Teacher bashing won't help.


Getting rid of fundamentally bad and incompetent employees will help.

Who decides what is 'unsatisfactory?' Well, in the real world, the rest of the working population gets evaluated by their bosses. Why teachers should not be subject to the same is something that you and I may disagree on.

[bemildred]

21. We do not agree about #2, or about any equation of good for teachers with bad for students.

If you do not have happy, secure teachers, you will not have quality education, period. The notion that you can run schools like factories or plantations and get good results is false, unless your definition of good results is "cheap and low quality".

[Psephos]

23. The idea that factories can be run well with disgruntled workers is also false

and is a major contributor to the decline of US manufacturing prowess.

[bemildred]

24. Yes indeed, I've seen that personally.

It's one of the reasons I avoid fast food.

[Psephos]

31. Amen. n/t

[msanthrope]

25. I think you and I agree that happy and secure teachers are a good thing,

but we disagree on just how that is achieved.

Frankly, I think that competency of the employee is the proper goal, not the personal satisfaction of the employee.

[bemildred]

26. And I think that is a false dichotomy, you cannot have one without the other.

I am all for competence, but it is not achieved through the threat of firing, especially in education.

[msanthrope]

27. Competence is indeed achieved through the threat of firing....

it's how the world works outside of the world of academia. You fuck up, you are fired.

In fact, let's look at how classrooms work---does not the threat of firing/failing motivate students to competence?

[bemildred]

35. "does not the threat of firing/failing motivate students to competence?"

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[donquijoterocket]

30. when

"Satisfactory" or "unsatisfactory" is to be decided upon by one person it might as well be at will especially if that one person is your direct supervisor. The same sort of personality conflict can occur outside the workplace but still affect the teacher as when a school board member takes an active dislike.I'll agree there ought to be a clear, well-defined process for weeding out those teachers not performing up to the standards expected in that school or district. But both the process and the standards ought to be arrived at by the negotiations and collective bargaining that includes all sides.