AP Source: Obama to seek changes in Pell Grants

[daa]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's budget plan would cut $100 billion from Pell Grants and other higher education programs over a decade through belt-tightening and use the savings to keep the maximum college financial aid award at $5,550, an administration official said.
Nearly $90 billion of the projected savings would be achieved through two changes, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity ahead of Monday's release of Obama's 2012 budget. The spending plan applies to the budget year that begins Oct. 1.


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110213/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_pell_grants

---

This should improve our education to help us compete.

[plumbob]

1. Hmmm, let's see, poor economy makes laid-off workers want to retrain,

so they go to college, only to find that funds to help them do so are gone, too.

Result: highly educated workforce ready to jump in there for some world-class competition! Woo-hoo! Only thing missing from this plan is a dose of reality.

Evidently, I neither drink nor drug enough to understand these fucking stupid proposals.

[uppityperson]

14. No, he wants to cut the 2 grants in 1 yr part. Here... from OP link...

"The first proposal would end the "year-round Pell" policy that let students collect two grants in a calendar year, with the second grant used for summer school. The official said the costs exceeded expectations and there was little evidence that students earn their degrees any faster. The change would save $8 billion next year and $60 billion over a decade, the official said."

[KeepItReal]

23. The meaning is no Pell Grant money for Summer School

eom

[uppityperson]

33. Indeed, they will cut that $500 summer school grant.

But they will keep the "school year" grant at $5500 rather than $2500

[KeepItReal]

35. They have also capped the grant instead of allowing inflation adjustments as per previous policy

I'm glad you admit facts when you see them, though.

[uppityperson]

36. They also capped the grant indeed. I am glad they able to keep the grants as high as they can, wis

wish they would find funding sources elsewhere and not have to do that. Funding for higher education matters. I'd like to see them deal with increasing college costs, increasing health care costs (thank you Big Insurance for that), increasing housing costs, etc etc etc. I'd like to see our society evolve from consume consume consume and worshipping the Almighty Dollar too.

[plumbob]

25. Any evidence that not going to summer school makes them earn

their degrees any faster?

This is the same kind of "fact" that gets tossed around, like "studies show that for good teachers, class size doesn't matter." BUT what the study actually showed was that great teachers' students learn more, even in large classes, than terrible teachers' students do, even in small classes.

So, "little" evidence means there is some. And NO evidence that outcomes are improved by the elimination of summer school. I finished my MAEd in 17 months by going to summer school. So that's one. One more than cited in the OP.

[uppityperson]

34. I did summer school also. Here's the numbers, cutting $500 for summer school grants

Will get $5500 for "school year" grant and 0 for summer school. The other option is give $2500 for "school year" and $500 for summer school. Students will be better off getting the $5500 and not getting the $500 summer school grant.

[glinda]

65. For both of my degrees I attended all summers and it helped a lot time wise.

[JackInGreen]

49. I think

I drink and drug plenty for many of us, and they don't make any fucking sense from this side either.

[Demeter]

67. That Makes Two of Us

I'm really baffled by the Freeze the Poor during the coldest winter in decades proposal, too.

[tularetom]

2. Cognitive dissonance is the only reaction you can have to this administration

The actions just don't match the words.

[ananda]

3. More war on the poor, working, and middle classes.

Sheesh.

We're still in hugely costly wars and police actions, though.

[DrDan]

4. got cut some corners to keep the war efforts going

education seems like a good place to cut.

oh yeah - and the tax cuts for the wealthy. Gotta make up that money somehow. Damned students don't vote anyway.

[russspeakeasy]

46. Don't forget to shut down those money sucking libraries..

[stockholmer]

5. yes, it will help the US labour force compete with Sri Lanka and Cambodia

:sarcasm:

[Avant Guardian]

6. The GOP will love that

Educated people tend not to vote republican

Gotta pay for extending those Bush tax cuts somehow....

[alp227]

57. had to check that; here's the CNN exit poll after election '08

www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=USP00p1

62% of people without high school diploma and 58% of those with postgraduate degrees voted for Obama. It was more split among HS grads (52%), those with some college (51%), and those with an undergrad degree (50%). Yet white voters who did attend college were less likely (51%) to vote McCain than those who didn't (58%). And non-white voters who graduated voted 75% for Obama; those who didn't voted 83%.

Lack of education, however, leaves one vulnerable to gullibility, and that's why Fox News, talk radio, and corporate front groups are out there to get 'em.

[snappyturtle]

7. Why am I not surprised? I haven't become aware of a proposed budget

cut yet that I think is good. Anyone?

[vi5]

8. Remind me again what Republican/wealthy things get cut again?

I'm seeing a lot of democratic (sorry....TRADITIONALLY UNTIL RECENTLY Democratic) programs and constituencies getting things cut left and right and their needs being dismissed come budget time. But remind me again what Republican favored programs or initiatives or constituency supported areas are being cut? Please? Someone?

[dotymed]

17. TAXES FOR THE WEALTHY, SILLY

But remind me again what Republican favored programs or initiatives or constituency supported areas are being cut? Please? Someone?

:sarcasm:

[ej510]

9. I think it time for me to purchase 2 L 4 O shirts.

http://2l4o.blogspot.com/

[Edweird]

16. They're Union made, too. NICE!

:thumbsup:

[KeepItReal]

10. Didn't the last Congress just fight to help students? Now he cuts Pell Grants? WTF!?!

"Democrats celebrated the legislation, a centerpiece of President Obama’s education agenda, as a far-reaching overhaul of federal financial aid, providing a huge infusion of money to the Pell grant program and offering new help to lower-income graduates in getting out from under crushing student debt. Still, the final bill is less ambitious than the original proposal.

Congressional allies of the student-loan industry attacked the overhaul as an overreaching government takeover. The legislation substitutes an expanded direct-lending program by the government for the bank-based program, directing $36 billion over 10 years to Pell grants, for students from low-income families.

...

The bill includes some landmark changes, like automatic increases, tied to inflation, in the maximum Pell grant award. But for individual students, the increase in the maximum Pell grant — to $5,900 in 2019-20 from $5,550 for the 2010-11 school year — is minuscule, compared with the steep, inexorable rise in tuition for public and private colleges alike.

And because college costs are rising so quickly, the maximum Pell grant now covers only about a third of the average cost of attending a public university, compared with three-quarters in the 1970s, when the program began. So each year, more students graduate with debt of more than $20,000."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/us/politics/26loans.html

[uppityperson]

13. read the article and see what he is cutting and why. I wish there was more in OP to tell that. Here

"The first proposal would end the "year-round Pell" policy that let students collect two grants in a calendar year, with the second grant used for summer school. The official said the costs exceeded expectations and there was little evidence that students earn their degrees any faster. The change would save $8 billion next year and $60 billion over a decade, the official said."

[KeepItReal]

22. Yeah. I did and it means they are cutting Pell Grants for use in the Summer Semesters

As the unnamed Obama official says "there was little evidence that students earn their degrees any faster"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-ap-us-obama-pell-grants,0,55403.story

[uppityperson]

32. and they are keeping PELL grant otherwise @ $5500 rather than cutting to $2500

If my kid can get $5500 for the "school year" of college, will skip the $500 for summer school. Hell, if he can get $5500 rather than $2500, I'll pay the $500 for summer school and still come out ahead.

$5500 and I pay $500 for summer school vs $2500 and they pay $500 for summer school. Yes, still come out $3000 ahead.

[enlightenment]

45. Where are you getting the $500 from?

Your own experience? Summer Pells could be higher than that - whether or not your kid was eligible had more to do with EFC and other, personal factors.

Presenting apocryphal evidence is not really evidence. If you're going to argue about how totally cool this is, please use actual numbers rather than your personal experience.

[uppityperson]

47. The article. Read. The. Article. eom

[silver10]

51. Read it - good propaganda tool from CPAC

[Blasphemer]

69. I got $2775 last year for each of the Fall, Spring and Summer semesters

This would be a huge hit.

[uppityperson]

73. It could and I was wrong about the amount of $500.

[paulk]

72. how much you get is based on your economic need

I don't know where you are getting this from -

"Hell, if he can get $5500 rather than $2500,"

does the new plan guarantee you $5500?

please provide a citation for this.

[somone]

11. Tax cuts for the rich are more important

[uppityperson]

12. READ the article people, here is more...what cuts, why, and other expansions

The first proposal would end the "year-round Pell" policy that let students collect two grants in a calendar year, with the second grant used for summer school. The official said the costs exceeded expectations and there was little evidence that students earn their degrees any faster. The change would save $8 billion next year and $60 billion over a decade, the official said.

A second proposal would reduce loan subsidies for graduate and professional students. That would free $2 billion next year and save $29 billion over 10 years, according to the official.

The government currently pays the interest on student loans for some graduate and professional students as long as they stay in college. But the official said experts think the subsidy has failed to encourage more students to attend graduate school and it isn't well-matched to borrowers who have trouble repaying the loans.

The administration also has expanded other programs that help students reduce loan payments and ultimately forgive debt they can no longer afford to repay.

[prolesunited]

15. Why bother reading

when you can just post a knee-jerk reaction?

[grahamhgreen]

18. Why don't they just expand the other programs without cutting - by taxing the rich and ending wars?

No, they have to after the people who need the money, not those who don't.

[uppityperson]

19. Did you read the article? Please check out this reply also. Thank you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=407861&mesg_id=408071

[KeepItReal]

24. Obama passed a law enabling Pell Grant use for Summer School, now he's cutting it

Pell Grant Can Be Used for Summer College Courses, Starting in Summer 2010

"Starting in summer 2010, students will be able to use their Federal Pell Grant Program federal aid toward their summer college courses. In the Past, a college student could only use these grant funds for spring and fall college programs.

Students who take advantage of this federal aid for their summer courses can complete their college degree programs more quickly, which can save additional money in tuition and room and board costs.

This significant change to how the Pell Grant is administered joins other recent changes to this federal financial aid program. In 2009, President Obama increased the annual maximum financial aid award offered by the Pell Grant program. In 2009, the federal aid program’s maximum award was increased 13%, up to $5,350. The administration plans to continue increasing the maximum award to an estimated $6,900 in 2019, in accordance with projected inflation trends in college costs such as tuition and room and board."

http://www.campusexplorer.com/college-advice-tips/1FA6316F/Pell-Grant-Can-Be-Used-for-Summer-College-Courses-Starting-in-Summer-2010/

[uppityperson]

55. I just got back from reading about summer school grants and i was wrong.

I thought I read elsewhere on DU that the summer school grant was only $500, and I was wrong.

[plumbob]

31. If the interest exemption isn't keeping students in graduate school, then

there is no interest exemption being paid and no savings to be had.

The only way savings can be had is if students ARE staying in grad school and taking advantage of the exemption.

See, I don't know if I need to be insulted because they think that I'M stupid enough to swallow this swill, or should I be concerned because THEY'RE stupid enough to swallow it themselves.

So, are they evil or are they stupid? Seems like the only two options available.

We can also "SAVE" money by passing a law to make everyone who rents now buy a home. Then we could save all that HUD rental money. Makes every bit as much sense, which is to say, none.

[silver10]

39. Thank you!

I'm not the only one here that sees that the emperor is wearing no clothes.

Read the crappy article is supposed to automatically persuade us that everything is peachy and wonderful, JUST READ THE FUCKING ARTICLE!It justifies the injustice, so just shut up (sarcasm). It makes everything better.

If you don't take this change, then we will cut Pells to $2,500 (more threats, manipulation, hostage taking and scare tactics, we should be used to it by now). If they're going to keep the maximum $5,500 allowed and only eliminate it's use for summer school, where's the savings? I'm not tracking.

They can keep referring to the article and ramming it down everyone's throat, we're just no swallowing.

Well, somebody says that there is little evidence that students receive their diploma any quicker with a second Pell Grant in one calendar year. - But maybe they can only take the minimum number of classes as the Pell allows, and need to take more classes in the summer because they need to work and can't take any more at the same time. Timeliness is more important than receiving an education.

Well, somebody says there is little evidence that subsidizing student loans for graduate and professional school encourages more students to pursue graduate and professional degrees. - Most people know that in many industries, a post-graduate degree is required - it's not that they don't want to pursue post-graduate degrees, even with the subsidy, they can't afford it. And with a labor market that has NEVER been as competitive, post-graduate degrees are now more the norm not the exception - just to be competitive. So no one gets it now because more people weren't trying to get a post-graduate degree before - makes sense to me (sarcasm).

Obviously, that $100 billion is going to be missed, and it will hurt people who need help earning degrees.

The great tragedy is this article, which is supposed to quell the middle class. Who is making these assumptions about students not getting their degrees quicker and that the subsidies aren't encouraging more people to pursue post-graduate degrees - is the money being left on the table unused? If so, no harm no foul. Where's the source of these claims? Where's the evidence and the proof?

It's OK that these savage wars will continue, it's OK that the top 2% get their tax cuts even though they don't need them and have been getting them for 10 years - it's been proven that they DO NOT help create more jobs by keeping the money in their hands. It's OK that corporations aren't paying their fair share in taxes and are sitting on piles of money. It's OK the House is trying to chip away at environment protection laws for clean air, energy and water. But take away more social programs that help American lower-to-middle class people and justify it with a weak-ass article.

[Historic NY]

20. Better go back and re-read this entire article.............

"It would be a mistake to balance the budget by sacrificing our children's education," he said Saturday in his weekly radio and Internet address, in an apparent warning to Republicans.

House Republicans want to cut $100 billion from the budget proposal Obama submitted for 2011 and education and college financial aid are expected to take a hit.

Congress, then controlled by Democrats, did not pass a budget for 2011.

[santamargarita]

21. Why should President Obama cut anything - point the finger at...

the goddamn Republicans that ran up the bill - put the spotlight on their sorry asses.

[SnakeEyes]

56. And then what.... the debt/deficit problem still exists.

[santamargarita]

64. Then get rid of tax cuts for the rich assholes!!

And the corporate welfare. Don't give me any shit about the goddamn Republican deficit!

[bluestateguy]

26. I tuned it out as soon as I saw "AP: Source"

Go on the record with a real person and a real document and we'll talk.

[bvar22]

27. Gawd intended Education as a luxury for the very RICH only!

In the 60s & 70s,
anyone could attend the State University and graduate DEBT FREE if willing to work a part-time job.
That was The NORM, not the exception.

America could have that again,
IF the Working Class & The Poor had a political party that represented them.
The lower 98% have ZERO representation in Washington, in either political party.

The Republicans & the "Centrist" Democrats have turned Education into a For Profit scam.
New and Improved Gilded Age 2.0, here we come!
Happy Days are Here Again!.......for the very RICH.


We needed an FDR.
Instead we got someone to The Right of Reagan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8vOQCnuhh4

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

[border_town]

28. I don't know how much more of this BS we are going to take

before society, as a whole, reacts? But then again, you have a redneck sitting in his trailer in the middle of South Carolina, drinking his natural light, working 70 hrs a week and barely getting by saying; "Hell YEAH, Cut those liberal programs, I don't use them." We are so freakin screwed in this country. Our cultural divide is what will cause our downfall.

[Fearless]

29. Fuck you Mr. President. I'm done with you.

[onehandle]

30. Stoopid kids. Stop sucking from the gubberment's teat and get a job.

Walmart is hiring.

[Junkdrawer]

37. K&R

[Odin2005]

38. FUCK THAT BULLSHIT!!! I need those Pell Grants, you Corporatist sell-out!!!

:grr:

[uppityperson]

40. They will stay at $5500, is cutting the $500 summer school ones rather than the big ones

He is NOT cutting the big ones to $2500. There will be a cap on the $5500 ones though, but they are not being cut.

[NickB79]

53. Remind us again how fast tuition costs are rising around the country?

Every year, those Pell grants would buy less and less under this plan.

You might feel it is ok NOW, but I'm looking years down the line to when my daughter has to start planning for college.

[uppityperson]

54. TOO fast, it is scary and I WAS WRONG

I do not think cutting any college grants is ok. All I am saying is IF they have to cut, a smaller one is better than a larger one.

As far as being wrong, I thought I read on another link elsewhere on Du that I can't find that the summer grant was only $500. I looked, can't find it, so went to PELL grant homepage and I was wrong. Summer school grant was $2750. I was wrong.

So what they are doing is rather than cutting the whole thing to $2500/yr from $5500 and $2750 summer school is cut the summer school grant out. Which I agree sucks.

Tuition costs are rising too fast, admissions decreasing too fast. It is a mess and very scary indeed.

[SnakeEyes]

58. I hate to say it but

there is no reason for tuition to be rising as fast as it is except that the schools can do it because the loans/grants are there for others to pay it. If the money wasn't there, the schools wouldn't be raising tuition.

[silver10]

41. With you!

[virtus_contagiosa]

42. Jesus what corporate tool Obama has turned out to be.

It sure would be nice to hear a plan to make the wealthy corporates to pay their fair share rather only hearing of the middle and lower class getting screwed.

Unbelievable.

[silver10]

43. Agreed!!

[Lorien]

62. I'm sure that someone will be along shortly to post a blue link to something vaguely

related that's extremely long and pro-Obama, yet does not refute the fact that he's a total corporate tool.

[AngryOldDem]

44. Seems to me when Bush wanted to do this, all hell broke loose.

This deserves the same reaction.

Now more than ever, any assistance for education should be expanded, not cut.

[Fearless]

61. +10000

[Lorien]

63. Yes, but that's the genius of Obama. He can pass a far Right agenda without a serious

challenge on the issue from the Left-PLUS the GOP will keep screaming for him to go FURTHER to the Far Right. It's a very effective good cop/ bad cop routine used to pass extremely unpopular legislation.

[_ed_]

71. Most Democrats don't care

about anything other than electing Democrats. That's the problem. When Bush does it, it's bad. When Obama does it, it's good. End of story. They are fools.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EndElectoral]

50. So no inflation adjustment, and cutting summer Pells with rising College tuition. Seems par for "O"

[silver10]

52. Shame, shame, shame on you Obama

[corpseratemedia]

59. ummm...smells so '80's, when my Pells were cut and cut and cut

once they start cutting...of course they come up with all kinds of excuses initially...


it IS important for the very very wealthy, not just the "wealthy," to keep their tax cuts though..


i want a primary challenger in '12 ...to WTF 2012 ( I don't believe they didn't pick that acronym first btw).

[Soylent Brice]

60. accidentally unrecced.

Can someone help get the count back up?

I'm sorry!

[forty6]

68. I'll be glad to do it...to cancel out your mistaken vote. But we'll need one more to...

push it back in the right direction.

Honestly, I don't understand how stuff like this proposal can be seen as anything less than a war on middle class working families.
How many billions in tax cuts did O give away in December to the rich Repugnants? $400 Billion? Makes no sense. We are supposed to be retooling our workers, getting more math and science grads, helping families deal with rising costs of education, as well as health care, gas and heating oil, etc. This proposal, together with cutting the LIHEAP, is just not sitting right with me. Why is Obama forsaking all the progressive middle class working people who put him in office?

[chill_wind]

66. Tradeoffs. Afghanistan 2011 War Spending alone will eat up *19.2 million * Pell Grants

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=402175&mesg_id=402329

Iraq and Afghanistan: Grants for 31.1 million students.

There should be a bjillion flyers papering every single college campus in this country making those tradeoffs clear.

[Doctor_J]

70. To all of the defenders - What part of "Cut 100 billion dollars" is too confusing for you?

:wtf:

In all of the countries we're allegedly trying to "compete" with, college education is paid for as part of one's citizenship. How much do you think college is going to cost in 10 years?

Are you brainwashed like the teabaggers, or do you get paid to defend everything the president does?

Basically a repost from the other thread on this.