Yale agrees to return Machu Picchu artefacts to Peru

[dipsydoodle]

Source: BBC News

Yale University has signed an agreement to return to Peru some 5,000 Inca artefacts removed from the famed Machu Picchu citadel nearly a century ago.

The relics - stone tools, ceramics and human and animal bones - will be housed in a new centre in the city of Cuzco.

The deal ends a long dispute over the artefacts, which were taken from Machu Picchu by American explorer Hiram Bingham in 1912.

Machu Picchu, high in the Andes, is Peru's main tourist attraction.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12438695

[SpiralHawk]

1. Now if Yale's Skull & Boners would only give back Geronimo's skull

...maybe the occult right-wing totalitarian corporate clique would find it's evil-doing dark-side powers diminished...

Caption: Notorious Republicon torture freak and war criminal xCommander George AWOL Bush displays one of the skulls his family & his occultist cronies have plundered over the decades.

[Le Taz Hot]

2. Good for Yale for giving back the artifacts.

Bad on Yale for it taking so damned long.

[cosmicone]

3. The same should happen to artefacts stolen from

the former colonies by Britain, France, Spain etc. which are enriching the European museums while depriving the people of the former colonies.

[SpiralHawk]

5. Don't forget the Vatican

The pope & minions been plundering the planet for well over 1,000 years...shocking even my dear, sainted, grey-haired mother who still makes the stations of the cross, despite her shattered illusions about the churches' dicey history of disrepect for other cultures and plunder, it's FOUL finances, and its now-exposed heinous tradition of sexual predation.

[NoodleyAppendage]

7. What a load.

Countries will eventually buy back their cultural properties when they are financial and politically stable enough to do so. China and the antiquities market is a prime example of how cultural materials were preserved outside of the country that would have otherwise been destroyed (e.g., Mao's Cultural Revolution), but after a period of political and economic stability those materials are returning to the country of origin.

Whatever your colonial "guilt" says, the fact remains that cultural materials are lost to history more at the hands of those living in the country of origin than from outside forces.

J

[cosmicone]

9. So people should buy back what was stolen from them?

That is like thieves saying "you would ruin your plasma TV and laptop, it is much safer in our hands. We'll sell it back to you when you can afford it."

[NoodleyAppendage]

14. Yes, particularly if those people are intent on destroying what is important to world history.

Plasma TV and laptops are not equivalent to world archeological heritage. There's a reason why certain sites around the world are designated as such.

[cosmicone]

16. It is their property

and it is their right to do whatever they want with it regardless of some chauvinist's view of world history used to justify imperialism and colonialism.

[entanglement]

27. The key to his reply were the words "buy back". The last thing someone genuinely interested

in preserving "world heritage" would think about. It's important to remember that there are many entities - such as international art auction houses - who've basically made billions trading looted art to the wealthy parasitic rich, who then hide them away in their mansions. When art changes hands and these parasites don't get their "cut", they are known to protest loudly. Sharing world heritage with ordinary people (American or Peruvian) is the very last thing on their minds.

[closeupready]

33. Finally something I agree with you on.

n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

40. i know, i was just thinking the same thing. nt

[rucky]

4. I'll be there this Summer

w00t!

[NoodleyAppendage]

6. Yale protected these relics for decades from looters. They had no obligation to return them.

Here's a different take. If those artifacts were not carefully excavated and tended for by Yale, then they probably would have been lost to world history forever. Peru at the time and for decades after was dirt poor. Artifacts and the like are frequently found by indigenous people there and sold in the markets to tourists and collectors alike. Rather than complain about artifacts that firmly meet the 1970 UNESCO Treaty for cultural materials, Peru should be counting its blessings that someone took the time and care to preserve their heritage. I can guarantee you that if Yale had not stepped in, those artifacts would be scattered across the globe in private collections.

Here's a question for those supporting strong cultural repatriation efforts, like those of Egypt and Peru. How are you going to feel about those relics when they are destroyed during a political or economic upheaval in Peru? The recent loss and theft of King Tut materials in Egypt should serve as a strong warning that sometimes it is safer to store archeological materials outside the country of origin. Think about how much archeological history was lost in Afghanistan at the hands of the Taliban. Nuff' said.

J

[zonkers]

8. Yale did the right thing. It was good that relics were preserved for a hundred years and its

that they are being given back.

[cosmicone]

10. It is those people's right to do what they want with their own property.

If they want to destroy, fine. Legalizing looting of other cultures is far far worse.

[NoodleyAppendage]

13. What a fine philosophy...if you are only interested in regional culture.

Extending your philosophy would mean that the only materials preserved for HUMANITY (not just local concerns) are those that are thought to be valuable to a particular sect of peoples. So, I guess the standing buddhas of Afghanistan, which were relatively pristine for 1300 years but then blown to smitherines by the Taliban was good for world knowledge and heritage? Right?

J

[cosmicone]

15. It is very chauvinistic to think that

only Western museums and universities know what is best for the "world" without regard to the people who own the property. You also assume that other countries and cultures don't value things as much as the Western invaders, imperials and colonial barons.

I for one say that property rights of a people are sacrosanct and supecede what people living far away think and their interests.

[rayofreason]

18. The Taliban didn't value the Buddhas.

They blew them up. Guess if they "own" them they can do that and you are OK with that right? By the way, how long did the Taliban "own" them?

[closeupready]

35. Said resident of the nation that destroyed Glen Canyon.

n/t

[rayofreason]

46. You have got to be kidding!

You want to compare the creation of Lake Powell, which let to the flooding of Glen Canyon (it is still there, by the way, just under water), an issue on which there were rational arguments for both sides, with the Taliban's wanton destruction of ancient Buddha statues? What planet are you from?

[EFerrari]

12. They don't belong to Yale. If Peru wants to use them for ashtrays

it's none of Yale's business.

[Xithras]

17. Machu Picchu is a UNESCO World Heritage site.

So yes, it would be our business.

Just like Bamiyan was our business. Or like it would be our business if the Egyptians decided to pull down the pyramids.

The history of humanity belongs to no one generation, and to no ephemeral human government. It is the duty of all humans to protect our history against those who would destroy it.

[EFerrari]

32. If you grant UNESCO's jurisdiction. The UN is not a democratic

organization, not in any way. The history of humanity doesn't belong to the coterie that the US installs in the Security Council, either, for example.

[LTX]

19. And if the Taliban wants to turn ancient statues of Buddha

into gravel, it's none of our business, right?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0301-04.htm

None of that history belongs to us, so why should we give a damn? Same goes for rainforests, I suppose. And great apes. And rhinos, and elephants, and . . .

Very enlightened of you.

[cosmicone]

28. Taliban destroyed very large statues at Bamiyan.

The Western looters could not have transported them to a European or American museum anyway. Furthermore, the Taliban were created by the CIA and ISI and did not represent the Afghan people.

Bad example.

[LTX]

29. From the link provided --

" said Taliban soldiers were at "work" in the Kabul museum and elsewhere in the provinces of Ghazni, Herat, Jalalabad and Kandahar." It wasn't just the statues. Furthermore, "western looters" were responsible for preserving the pieces that are now being returned by Yale, and the Taliban may have been supported by the west, but they weren't "created" by the west.

[EFerrari]

31. The problem with the Taliban wasn't that they demolished those statues

but that our government courted a brutal regime.

And no, it's not up to Yale to determine the fate of history, rain forests or great apes or rhinos or elephants, lol. But colonizers rarely if ever see how destructive they are. :)

[LTX]

42. So you blame "colonizers" for the destruction of Brazilian rainforests?

And "colonizers" for elephant poaching and rhino poaching? (And, I suppose, "colonizers" for the Taliban's vandalization of not only the Buddhist statues but other ancient artifacts in the Kabul museum, and "colonizers" for whaling, and "colonizers" for tiger poaching, etc.) And you think we (as filthy Americans, I presume) should just mind our own business because "its not up to us to determine the fate of history"? The rebirth of the "do-nothings" right here at DU. Bring home the archaeologists and the biologists and the environmental activists and everybody else with the "colonial" gall to "interfere" with the world we live in. In the juvenile phraseology of the interwebs, lol (or wtf, or something like that).

[Judi Lynn]

44. Colonizers are sheer magic, wherever they go. God love'em.

May they increase in whiteness!

[LibertyLover]

36. It all depends on the agreements in place between the excavator,

in this case Hiram Bingham, and Peru. If those excavation permit agreements stated that Bingham could remove X amount of artifacts, with caveats in place for rare, exceptional and one-of-a-kind items that would remain in Peru, and he did so and gave the stuff to Yale, then whatever Yale owned was legally theirs.

For example, you know the famous bust of Nefertiti in Berlin? If so, I'm sure you know that Egypt periodically requests that Germany return the statue and Germany says, essentially "up yours". The reason is the excavation permit agreement in place for the German excavation by the Deutsche Orientgesellschaft under Ludwig Borchardt at Tell-el-Amarna stated that, following examination by the Egyptian Antiquities Department of the items excavated, pieces that were duplicated in the excavation or already existed in Egyptian collections would be the property of the excavator, i.e. the Deutsche Orientgesellschaft. The pieces were duly laid out, the examination took place, the items were divided up and Borchardt went home. Then the bust was revealed in all its glory. The Antiquities Department examiners claimed that Borchardt and his people had either not shown them the bust, in which case it had been removed illegally and against the excavation permit agreement and should be returned to Egypt immediately, or, more likely, the bust was carefully made to look like nothing special or one of the several other model heads of Nefertiti that had been found and the inspectors were fooled, in which case things are bit more difficult. We are talking about experienced antiquities inspectors who should not have been duped, but may have been and so let the bust out of the country legally. That's why Germany says no to Egypt every time repatriation is mentioned. Their view is that the item left Egypt lawfully and the bust belongs to Germany.

I have no problem with duplicate or similar pieces going to other countries, especially in light of some of the destruction that has occurred due to political instability over the years.

[entanglement]

26. You ignore the fact that many ordinary Peruvian people will now be able to see these relics

and experience a part of their culture and heritage which was stolen from them. I suspect very few Peruvians are wealthy enough to make a trip to visit Yale (or any other foreign country) to see these exhibits. The fact that this simple thought didn't occur to you indicates how strong the colonialist /imperialist mindset is.

[rabs]

11. The hidden face of Machu Picchu

This is the photo familar to millions around the world.


Then someone decided to do a 90-degree flip of the photo and came up with ....





These photos have been around in LatAm blog circles for years now. It has been proved that the face photo was photo-shopped.

Still, it is a marvelous illusion.

Btw, I went to Machu Picchu many years ago while a university student studying in Ecuador. It is an amazing experience. But I have read that it has gotten really expensive to visit the site today. If you have not been there, GO.

[Judi Lynn]

41. Turned my laptop sideways to take a closer look at the real photo of the site,

and realized it's easy to see how someone got the idea to enhance it. This is really interesting.

Truly envy your experience of seeing this phenomenal area. It's beyond comprehension. Astonishing.

Thanks for posting the two images. I will always be thinking of that face now every time I see it online or in a book.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. i love how consistently du is disappointing in matter regarding race and the capabilities of brown

people.

[LTX]

21. What does this comment have to do with Yale returning artifacts?

Perhaps you can explain a bit.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. the idea that brown people cannot help but destroy the artifacts

that they in fact created. that when white people take things from foreign countries, its for our own protection, its not by any means thievery and in some cases, we need to buy our shit back. kinda like the haitians had to buy their freedom back from the french.

using the buddhas in afghanistan as an example is extremely convenient, and largely ignores how Russia/America are responsible for the Taliban coming to power in the first place. The Buddhas were fine in Afghanistan for generations before that.

[LTX]

23. Well, I suppose you're right. DU is a hot-bed of racism,

the Taliban are actually from Milwaukee, and vandalism and theft are unique to "white people." Can't argue with that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. lol. thats a laughable bad way of stating what i just said. best of luck to you. nt

[KittyWampus]

30. While you seem oblivious to your own romanticization of brown people >

a good deal of archeological and artistic works have been stolen and sold by those very "brown" people you mention.

And a good deal destroyed by those "brown" people.

Besides the Bamiyan Buddhas, China just recently flooded archeological treasures AND millions of homes for it's dam built upon an earthquake fault.

All that said, good for Peru. I'm glad they are finally stable enough and organized enough to house those treasures.

[Judi Lynn]

43. DU attracts infestation by right-wingers who are unable to stay away.

They boast about it at right-wing sites, referenced here in earlier times. It's a triumph to them to really stink the place up.

Of course it's a hot-bed of racism when these delusional, racist reactionaries feel driven to add their slimy opinions to this otherwise exceedingly decent message board.

[LTX]

45. Maybe. Although I haven't seen any of it. On this thread or elsewhere.

Which is why the comment in post 20 seemed so inapropos.

[closeupready]

34. You said it, sister.

n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

37. ..

:loveya:

[closeupready]

38. They were wringing their hands about Egypt in the initial weeks ('brown people track record,

muslim brotherhood, aaahhhh!), and now (of course), EVERYONE was ALWAYS for Democracy. :eyes: :rofl:

Happy Valentine's Day to you, as well! :)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. lol

[Ignis]

47. No kidding. I thought "White Man's Burden" went out of style decades ago.

I guess not. :shrug:

[entanglement]

25. Good for Peru.