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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:23 PM
Original message
'Growing GOP Dissent on Iraq'
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 09:27 PM by are_we_united_yet
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/07/politics/main...
(CBS) By David Paul Kuhn,
CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer

President Bush is facing increasing dissent among leading conservative politicians and pundits in the face of mounting U.S. casualties in Iraq.

snip

Republican Party ranks are beginning to break and the White House is worried. Longtime GOP critics on Iraq are growing progressively more vocal in their condemnation.

snip

---------------------------------
-sigh-

Didn't some of us think this war was a bad idea?

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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. it's about time....those reTHUGlicans are awful slow....

bush* is a WAR CRIMINAL !!!!
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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Iraq Mess - Is Clinton to Blame?
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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Somehow, some way
through some contorted logic, I'm sure he is.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Clinton tied to a whipping post? Not any longer (maybe).
Clinton's theme song might as well have been the Almann Brother's Tied to a Whipping Post. Now it's Bu$h's turn.

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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
59. ROFL SO true! nt
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's About Damned Time!
eom
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. Maybe if they had listened to our "focus group"
we wouldn't be in this mess now. Phuck the GOP, that blood on your hands will never wash off. I hope it drives all of you mad.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. They ignored us when we marched, we knew this would happen
everyone ignored us.
and we were right.
assholes.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. No kidding, Mari. I was talking to my husband about that today.
How it AMAZES me that I, like so many other anti-war people, knew this stuff a year and a half ago, maybe longer, and I'm just a civilian. A relatively unconnected one. And if I can know this stuff from what I've seen, heard, read, observed, and researched, WHAT ON EARTH is there to say for all these supposed, well-connected, high-level know-it-alls? I can still remember the many times I've been labeled an appeaser or a Neville Chamberlain by friends and acquaintances, because I opposed the war. They sure did ignore us when we marched. AND WE SURE WERE RIGHT. We need to get our troops OUT OF THERE. NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. I know, its beyond belief
I called every congressman, every senator for the last 3 years and told them..no one listened..no one believed me..I told them how the hell can I , as a 52 yr old woman , just get on the net and research in no time flat whats going on with PNAC, just follow the MONEY, and you will have your answers to why we did this..
no one listened
I was harassed daily because of my bumper stickers against the war, and even with a kid over there I was attacked verbally and in other ways because I was against this
and now the truth comes to pass, and now they are looking at their stinking re election options, selfish bastards, and now they are suddenly oh so concerned, after the loss of over 600 kids and thousands and thousands of Iraqi civilians for nothing. for Nothing.
all based on lies.
Lies and money. We knew it then and it wont end , this week will be hell..Its Holy Days in Iraq...
it will be hell for us because we dont know if Michael is coming home dead or alive..it will be hell for the Iraqi mothers because they are now mourning their loved ones as we are..all of us are mourning this hell perpetrated by the Bush administration..the tyrants who run this country, the bastards who would do this, these scum who kill and dont care.
Impeachment is too good for that lying fratboy, impeachment is letting him and his cohorts off easy.
They should be tried as war criminals. every damned one of them.
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. Who wants to be associated with a patent failure?
Rats will abandon the sinking ship as the chickens come home to roost.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. wow, o' reilly and scarborough ?W
alright then.
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flamingyouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. Weren't the Iraqis supposed to greet us with flowers?
And then roll over and give us all their oil?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Clinton didn't grow the flowers
I knew this was all Clinton's fault!
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jab105 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
65. yea...for one day there was flowers...
one day of flowers and then this, because there was no plan for the aftermath...

in such a precarious situation, if it wasnt done perfect, then it was going to get out of control...
and look what happened...
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malachibk Donating Member (780 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. But look what it took
to make them see the light. That's what's disgusting to me.
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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. It is depressing n/t
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. Lugar, Hagel...
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 09:35 PM by Blasphemer
are the only elected GOP officials mentioned. They also mentioned some of the usual GOP pundits. I want to hear from some repubs besides Lugar and Hagel. Mostly they are eerily silent.

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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Others we may hear from: Specter and McCain?
????? I dunno.... it's hard to find an independent and honorable voice in that swamp nowadays. :shrug:
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
44. Specter can't come out on this until after the primary
Toomey will burn him good in PA if he suggests even the whiff of it.
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Layman Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
34. Iowa Repub on BBC
Jim Leach, Repub from Iowa, on the Beeb this morning, used the word, "withdrawl" and also said something along the lines of,"We need to consider all options which includes non-military responses."
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Good to hear...
Hopefully more will come out of the woodwork. They need to reaffirm their loyalty to the American people as opposed to some misguided allegiance to the Chimp.
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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. re: Didn't some of us think this war was a bad idea?
I vaguely remember some chatter.. :+
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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Aha!!
I knew I was right


;)
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. "The OReilly Factor." The leading conservative commentator
That comment from the article must drive him freaking nuts, since he always tries to sell himself as an Independent.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. Those poll numbers. Congress is up for grabs.
They're getting scared to be perceived as BushCo rubber stamps.
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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. Scarborough: (oh my)
Scarborough:"Do we need more troops in Iraq? Hell, yes, we do. ... Should June 30 handover date to the Iraqis be extended? You can bet your life on it ... because creating this false deadline in time for a presidential election is no way to win a war."

wow - I find myself shaking my head in agreement... Up is Down for me now.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Unfortunately, Joe dear, you will not be doing anything remotely like
betting your life on it. You and your fellow warmongers and bush apologists seem more content letting somebody else, and somebody else's kid, do the dirty work for you.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
18. So if they had listened to us, instead of calling us 'traitors'
then we wouldn't be in this mess.

I think a sincere apology is in order, and I think that BushCo should be in a cell in the Hague.
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. Traditional Republicans don't like imperialism
Pat Buchanan is very vocal against the Iraq war. They would rather be isolationists.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
23. PASS THE POPCORN
F***ING A**HOLES
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latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
25. But it sounds like they're calling for more troops, and a longer stay!
Dig deeper, men!!
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
26. Way past time
the rep and dem bastards quit kowtowing to bush. Especially those who claim to be loyal Christian Americans.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
28. Grab a bag of popcorn, sit back
and watch them cut Bush loose to drift.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. The one big Blunder Bush made was to let loose those Evangelizers
thus creating the illusion, intended or not, that we want to Christianize Iraq.

This has opened the door for a Holy War.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. There have been plenty of blunders, big and small. EOM
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
64. I am afraid it was deliberate ...

Multiple signals were sent. :scared: :nuke:
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
29. Let the very foundation
of the gop crumble. I feel the earth starting to quake. True conservatives, take your party back!
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
30. bye rats!
i knew this was coming....
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Right on schedule
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
32. Wow, Its true? not all Repubs are evil, some do care?
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. Nah, just selfishness
As always, all conservative actions can be traced to selfishness: war's expensive, uncertain, untidy and cuts into one's leisure time.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #32
58. Yea. They are getting worried about not getting reelected n/t
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PartyPooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
35. I've been thinking lately that perhaps Junior knew he'd be a one-termer.
Accordingly, he and the BFEE would have decided early on to do as much damage as possible to this country and the world in the first 4 years...just in case he got voted out the next go round. (Tax cuts, Iraqi Invasion, huge deficits, gutting social programs, etc.) And, it's worth noting that Junior decided in the spring of 2001 to go after Saddam. Why did he decide on this target so early? Was it revenge for his father? PNAC? And, then we had 9/11...and, folks, the rest is history.

But, now a lot of Republicans and swing voters are beginning to wake up to Junior's nightmare-in spite of spin from the White House controlled media.

And, finally, I do believe the tide is turning...and, Bu$hCo realizes it. Their proverbial "goose" is cooked!

But, were they expecting this all along?
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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I've
wondered the same thing.

Also I wonder if they are setting themselves up advantageously so even if they do lose, their influence on Government and business will be only mildly diminished.

I do think the opposition to the Bush Admin is gaining momentum.
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PartyPooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. To be sure, a lot of damage has been done.
It will take a long time to recover. Kerry will need at least 8 years to un-do what devastation Junior has wreaked on this country and abroad.

However, there is hope that we can replace retiring Supreme Court judges with Dems / moderates. And, I'm optimistic that we can do the same thing in the House and Senate, too.

At least, let's hope so!

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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I'm hopin!
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leQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #35
48. thoughts like that have been zippin through my head too
because it's almost unfathomable to imagine the big picture with these jokers. too many coincidences to be anything but planned.

but the counter argument goes something like this: 1) that people like this don't give up power that easily, and 2) simply because greedy people are insatiable. and what better way to steal money than to be in charge of government?

i don't know, but i'm glad to hear the theory is out there.
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DavidFL Donating Member (236 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #35
54. One idea I've been tossing around in my head
is that the neo-cons are all ideologues and are no different than the other ideological regimes that came to dominate world governments before them. Given the neo-cons' hubris, and that they are Trotskyites, I think they truly believe that their plans are so perfect and so right, they thought Americans and the world would be in such awe of their "brilliance", yet at the same time be so fearful of their power, that we would just fall in line behind them. But because they are Trotskyites, and convinced they are right, they themselves and their plans are incredibly inflexible. Thus, whenever reality was pointed out to them -- and when it finally set in, as we are witnessing in Iraq -- they can do nothing but stick to their ideology and plans, attack their detractors and continue to dissemble to the public. Which, by the way, I think will eventually lead to their own downfall and defeat.
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Enraged_Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #35
60. The BFEE know they're in office illegally, so they're conducting...
the biggest smash-and-grab in world history. It's all about stealing as much money and power as they can and getting the hell out of there.

Al Capone was small potatoes compared to these people. They are just simply the most ruthless, bloodthirsty criminals ever born.
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PfcHammer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
43. not impressed at all. stop me before i kill again
they will continue to question
and criticize the conflict while
voting to fund it and send
additional troops
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twilight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
45. they've dug themselves into a deep hole
and no, sorry to say this, but not even John Kerry can get us out of this situation anytime soon. Its going to take a long time for America to revive itself.

Frankly, I'm fearing we are on the brink of WWIII. :nuke:

Lets hope to God I'm wrong.

I can only be hopeful that what "dissent" we are seeing is real. Will there be others soon? We don't know.

* you got us into one big fuggin mess and I'll hate you for it forever. I never supported this "war" and I never will.

:dem: :kick:
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are_we_united_yet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I'm hopin'
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 11:07 PM by are_we_united_yet
that

1)Kerry gets elected
2)If he gets elected, we'll be a little more reasonable to our traditional Allies.

if (2)
then perhaps the will supply troops.

with * admin in charge, there aint no way they'll commit anything.
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Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
47. GOPster Politicos Seeing Their Careers Flashing
I suspect that some GOPster/"Conservative" politicos are beginning to see their political careers flash in front of their eyes as they realize that Dubya's smoke-and-mirrors dance in Iraq is coming to an untidy end. Maybe they realize that no matter how conservative their districts may be, there's a good chance of their being thrown out of office or even prosecuted if the voters are made sufficiently good and angry.


Fools! I'd suggested to some of the right-wing idiots on the Nut-Chase server that they'd do better to read Alistair Horne's A Savage War of Peace, a book about the French experience in Algeria, before signing on to Dubya's Big Sandy Adventure.
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koopie57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
49. I think this is very significant
because they are admitting they were wrong. I think for so long they knew this was coming but continued to support bush cuz they had to, to save face. But, it is just too much now. I think that is why lately they have seemed more angry. It was angered they felt towards Bush for putting them in this position. At least that is MHO.
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
50. Oh, there have been defectors.
Recall Jim Jeffords. The long-time Republican who defected shortly after BeelzeBush and his snake friends slithered up the steps to the White House.

He said that the party had changed too much for him. There was a featured article in Time magazine. The Rim-publicans treated him like crap, shunned him and insulted him for the last time.

Then, when the news broke out that he was about to jump ship and break the Republican majority, then all of a sudden they were wining and dining him. They were pleading on their bare knees for him to come back. Even Poppy Bush called him and pressured him to stay.

To no avail. I'm sure Jim doesn't regret a thing today.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Now there is a fine example of a wise and proud person. He saw the
badness and his pride could not handle it. Had to bail.

He will be hailed a Hero someday for the courage/wisedom it took.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Maybe controversial here at DU, but we need Republicans...
in my opinion. I've always opposed them politically, but they haven't always been extremists. Our two-party system has worked pretty well up to now, with two centrist parties, one center-left, and one center-right. Having both Jefferson and Hamilton at the beginning resulted in the system of government we're trying to save. These Republicans, through extremism and abuse of power, have upset the balance, and brought us very near a one-party system. It's a sad situation we're in, that our only hope seems to be that Bush screws up so badly that the press at last reports it, and the public wakes up -- almost like destroying the country, or bringing it to the brink, in order to save it.
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
53. LOL! This "dissent" is risible!
The substance of the much-hyped GOP "criticism" is that more troops should be sent to Iraq and that the US should perpetuate its savage occupation.

Nothing to see here, other than the war party in a pique because the natives in Iraq aren't showing the docility of Wal-Mart employees.

Guess where that's going to get us?

And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.
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captain_change Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
55. Put their money and children where their mouth is
I find these pundits who are calling for more troops so hypocritical. It was their drum beating, lies and spin that helped get us in this mess.

So to them I say:

George Will, your have a daughter, a new graduate of Princeton, I expect her to be on the front lines

Scarborough, you are young enough to go yourself, think about it, it will be legal to murder all the young girls you want

O'Reilly, give up that multi-million dollar contract and become a dollar-a-year man for the Bush gang

I am tired of reading about kids from Newark, The Bronx, Kingston & Poughkeepsie coming back to Dover Del in boxes. Although I don't want to see any one get starched; but,lets share the pain with the kid from those Republican strong holds of Scarsdale, Manhasset, Short Hills!!!!
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. Right On
Chicken Hawks feeling themselves smarter than us and now exposed as Draft-Avoiders. Need to have the heat of public opinion turned up on them.

Especially scum like Wolfowitz.
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llmart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
57. Don't be too impressed....
by these Repugs' "growing opposition". It's all about the poll numbers and as these guys see that the majority of their constituents at home are against this Iraq fiasco, they'll start proclaiming that they are "concerned" about it also. Bullshit!
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
61. It may sound like criticism but it's still GOP shilling to me.
They are criticizing Bush but are they preaching anything different then what Bush wants? Look at what Scarborough is saying, Do we need more troops in Iraq? Hell, yes, we do. ... Should June 30 handover date to the Iraqis be extended? You can bet your life on it. The only answer they can come up with is get in deeper. Not one of these GOP shills is going to say we need to bail out of this illegal and immoral war. And what about the troops that have been there in some cases for more than a year with some now forced to return for a second tour? Wheres the relief for them? The draft has been deferred until after the election but all these shills can say is stay the course.

The Iraqi people have gotten along for thousands of years without us. If we leave they may well choose to fight among themselves, then again they may not. We dont know for sure what will happen. But we have a pretty good indication of what will happen if our troops try to stay put. They will be the target of the Iraqis hatred.

Im all for helping someone out IF they want our help but lets not kid ourselves here. We are the hated enemy and the longer we stay the more they hate us. Its time to bring the troops home NOW.
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
62. Bush is toast if his base starts to split up
he cannot afford it. good.

This war was/is bad for America and it's about time repukes see that.
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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
63. Interesting.
The Republicans don't seem to be questioning the wisdom of going into Iraq, they simply seem to want to send in MORE troops.
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