Arrest Warrant For Sadr 'Illegal': Iraqi Judges

[Robbien]

BAGHDAD, April 7 (IslamOnline.net) – As the Iraqi Governing Council Wednesday, April 7, urged investigations into the American military use of "deliberate" force against civilians, the Iraqi Jurists Association said the arrest warrant against Shiite leader Muqtada Sadr is "illegal and based on a lie".

"The arrest warrant is illegal and incorrect, as the occupation forces issued it in disregard for sovereignty of Iraq's justice system," the Association said in a statement a copy of which was obtained by IslamOnline.net.

A U.S. military spokesman said two days ago the warrant had been issued "in the last several months" by an Iraqi judge investigating last April's murder of a pro-Western Shiite leader one year ago. "What justice are you talking about? You have dismissed 170 justices of their offices and violated the independence of justice here," read the statement.

<snip>

U.S. civil administrator Paul Bremer had called Sadr an "outlaw", drawing counter-accusations from the Shiite leader's aides. "If he means that Sayed Moqtada is an outlaw according to Sharia (Islamic law) and the laws we know, then Bremer knows nothing about these laws and it is he who violates these laws," said one aid.

http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2004-04/07/art...

comment: The article goes on to say that one IGA council member is threatening to quit the council over the US treatment of the Iraqi uprising. The article is interesting in that it describes the events that ignited al-Sadr's actions.

[Walt Starr]

1. Bang

The IGa goes away and * has no puppets to pull the strings on in order to have a SoFA in place when he hands over the reins.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

[IndianaGreen]

35. Who was supposed to get the "keys" on June 30?

Chalabi? This is nothing but a PR ploy to give the illusion of sovereignty while having an American bureaucrat acting as our Pontious Pilate in occupied Iraq.

[codegreen]

2. holy crap

Americas presense is completely unravelling there.
i think maybe it's time to go... there isn't a shred of legitimacy left...

[Zhade]

3. I love it. Yes, yes, yes!

"What justice are you talking about? You have dismissed 170 justices of their offices and violated the independence of justice here," read the statement.

Exactly right.

Hey, Proconsul Bremer - fuck you, say the Iraqi judges who actually know the law!

[Jim Sagle]

32. Migod, their court system is better than ours.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prodemsouth]

6. Oh no they are not atheist, real atheist don't do anything like this.

We value human life because it is the only one we have. They are religiously insane like these scholars.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Robbien]

12. They are calling Bush, as CIC, the atheist

And atheists all over the world should feel insulted.

[IndianaGreen]

25. Straw man argument

The real issue is the validity of the warrant, and the charges behind it.

Read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Robbien]

29. You are right,,, and thanks

my post was in response to the troll bait which was, as you said, a distraction.

The Iraqi in the article did say the warrant was invalid, but for different reasons. Your post clearly states what we did was an out right frame up.

[IndianaGreen]

30. It was disgusting to watch Rumsfeld lie today during the press conference

None of the American reporters asked the questions that needed asking. None of them challenged Bremer's rationale for shutting down the Shia newspaper. Bremer said that it advocated violence, but there was not violence until Bremer shut it down.

I watched France Deux News tonight. It clearly said that the majority of the Iraqi dead in Falluja were women and children. A French analyst referred to Iraq as an "Israeli-type quagmire."

[Prodemsouth]

13. Characterizing these assaults as "atheist" is completely untrue.

I don't like the religiously insane no matter their religion. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity especially suck. Religion has really fucked the world up good.

[atreides1]

18. Actually It's Not Religion....

....that f***ed up the world, it's the madmen who used it, and continue to use it for their own gain.

That's who f***ed the world, and that's who is continuing to f**k it up

[Prodemsouth]

26. Its still around for mad man to use over and over again.

And unfortunately its getting stronger. The popularity of "Passion" and Mel Gibson is very discouraging for those of us who long for a sane world. I still say the world would be better off without it. It had some measures that were required for humans to develop- but it needs to go now.

[atreides1]

28. It's For The Use...

...of anyone that believes in it. Just like a rock is around to use, it's up to the person who picks it up to decide how to use it.

Does he make a weapon, or try to skip it across the top of a pond.

As for the "Passion" and Mel Gibson, most that went to see the movie,
evidently don't read the Bible. So far I've read the books of Matthew and Mark. There is very little description of what happened.

The movie was mainly based on the Passion plays, that were used as a way to turn Christians against the Jews, and the plays were often put on by known anti-Semites.

What does this show, that those that flocked to the movie are no more then closet sadists, that and I don't think that they really beleive in God. They just didn't want to be left out of something that was popular.

I mean the Dawn of the Dead knocked the Passion out of the top spot.

[markses]

15. Huh?

The report can be accurate, and this bozo making the statement still be absolutely wrong.

What's your point?

[pinto]

16. while you two debate religion issues, I would suggest this is a legal

issue. The Iraq justice system has a long secular history. It is based on the French justice system and was largely left alone by the Saddam regime, excepting "state" trials used in his regime.

I would pose that a free, secular judiciary is something we would all support.

[markses]

14. Being an atheist

Neither proud nor otherwise, I am of course troubled by religious fanaticism of all sorts. At the end of the day, many religious people consider those of all other religions "atheists," since they don't share the same religion.

I'm not really sure what answer you're even looking for - which one would "prove your point." Is radical Islam a dangerous practice? Yes. is radical Christianity a dangerous practice? Yes. Is radical atheism a dangerous practice? Yes. So what?

[snippy]

22. You may have failed to comprehend the meaning of the word "atheists"

as used in the statement. It does not refer to those who disbelieve or deny the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being. It refers to non-muslims.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. What the hell are you talking about?

[Malva Zebrina]

31. historically, the first Christians were called atheists

by the Romans.

[pinto]

5. Someone needs to come up with, you know, the arrest warrant, signed

by an Iraqi judge (I'd bet my next paycheck if I was working he's named Challabi).

Heard a reporter recently ask the CPA spokesborg if the warrant "had been served"....well, no. I've never heard of a felony warrant being held on file before. Misdemeanor warrants, sure. But murder charge?

[displacedtexan]

7. It was a "secret" warrant, anyway.

Meaning... "We just made this up the other day, and we're lying to you about having been aware of this guy, who we've decided is a murderer because his guys pulled a Tony Soprano on some rival guys (if that actually happened last year, at all."

[markses]

17. It's like, say, a Lettre de Cachet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettre_de_cachet

In French history, lettres de cachet were letters signed by the king of France, countersigned by one of his ministers, and closed with the royal seal, or cachet. They contained orders directly from the king, often to enforce arbitrary actions and judgements that could not be appealed.

In the case of organized bodies lettres de cachet were issued for the purpose of preventing assembly or to accomplish some other definite act. The provincial estates were convoked in this manner, and it was by a lettre de cachet (in this case, a lettre de jussipri) in which the king ordered a parliament to register a law in the teeth of its own refusal to pass it.

The best-known lettres de cachet, however, were penal, by which a subject was sentenced without trial and without an opportunity of defense to imprisonment in a state prison or an ordinary jail, confinement in a convent or a hospital, transportation to the colonies, or expulsion to another part of the realm. The wealthy sometimes bought such lettres to dispose of unwanted individuals.

---snip---

[atreides1]

33. Something Like This

"By my hand, and for the good of the State. The bearer has done what
has been done"

Richelieu

[IndianaGreen]

21. Charges are false, warrant signed by ex-Saddam's intelligence officer

Read the BBC and The Guardian accounts here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Just Me]

8. Whoops,...another "persecution" tagged on the US.

Bremer,...you are fucking up, big time, along with the rest of the Bush loyalists who are every bit as despotic as any other totalitarian.

Perhaps these neocon freaks should be sent back for re-training about the tenets of both "democracy" and the structure of the US Constitution,...for which they have proven no respect.

[daleo]

9. Another Bush/Bremer move exposed as a lie

Could we see the warrant. Better yet, have an international unbiased jurist analyze its legality.

[IndianaGreen]

34. The media is telling to believe the same liars that

told us Saddam had WMDs. This is why I am so angry at those enablers of the press. They repeat as truth the lies they are being fed.

Al-Sadr is not a murderer and he is not a terrorist!

[David__77]

11. Quit IGC or work within---troubling problem.

I don't know. If all the Iraqi patriots quit the IGC then it might be even easier for the occupation to enforce its dictates after 7/1. Perhaps the governing structure can be seized by patriotic forces in Iraq. This is doubtful though and would probably lead to a US-engineered coup.

[IndianaGreen]

19. Al-Sadr's arrest warrant was signed by Saddam's Mukhabarat officer

The US charges of murder against Al-Sadr are FALSE, and the judge that signed arrest warrant was with Saddam's secret police.

I remember the incident because it was widely discussed in DU at the time it occurred (and I saved my bookmarks). Al-Khoei was not the target, but another other cleric who had been a Saddam supporter.

There was no murder here! It was a crowd that was outraged at seeing a cleric that had worked for Saddam's Ministry of Religious Affairs.

The judge that signed the arrest warrant against Al-Sadr was a member of Saddam's much feared secret police. The US is lying as usual.

Here are the two stories, one from the BBC dated April 10, 2003, about the incident in question. The other story is from The Guardian dated October 22, 2003, about Habboush, the former Mukhabarat officer that is working for Chalabi.

Shia leader murdered in Najaf
Thursday, 10 April, 2003

A senior Shia cleric working with coalition forces has been killed inside a mosque in the Iraqi holy city of Najaf.
Abdul Majid al-Khoei returned to Iraq from exile in London only last week.

He was one of two Muslim leaders hacked to death outside the Ali Mosque, one of the holiest sites for Shia Muslims.

The other was cleric Haider Kelidar, whom according to Arabic satellite channel al-Jazeera, had worked for Saddam Hussein's ministry of religious affairs.

<snip>

He (Khoei) had noticed Mr Kelidar coming under attack by a crowd and gone to help him - but was himself knifed. Both men died.

Other reports said crowds shouted abuse at the clerics, causing Mr Khoei to produce a gun and fire shots.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2936887.stm

Plan to arrest maverick Iraqi cleric for murder

Michael Howard in Baghdad
Wednesday October 22, 2003
The Guardian

Coalition and Iraqi officials are preparing an arrest warrant for the firebrand Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr over his alleged involvement with the brutal murder of a rival cleric last spring, sources close to the Iraqi governing council told the Guardian yesterday.

The warrant, which has yet to be finalised, cites Mr Sadr for instigating a deadly attack on Abdel Majid al-Khoei, who was stabbed to death by a mob in the Shia holy city of Najaf on April 10.

It is said to be signed by Tahir Jalil Habboush - a senior mukhabarat officer under the former regime who now works with the coalition authorities - and is based on the confessions of 23 men who were involved in the killing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,10...

[jpgray]

20. Thanks for posting these--I too remember the DU discussion on Khoei (nt)

[IndianaGreen]

23. The American press would be reporting this if they did their legwork

instead of taking at face value the drivel they are being fed by Bremer and Rumsfeld.

[lumpy]

27. The Iraqi governing council

will have very little power in the governing of Iraq. The US military will be running the show for many years to come unless the continuig deaths of American soldiers finally wakes up the public with the realization that we should get the hell out of the hellhole Bush has created.