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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:51 PM
Original message
Arrest Warrant For Sadr 'Illegal': Iraqi Judges
BAGHDAD, April 7 (IslamOnline.net) As the Iraqi Governing Council Wednesday, April 7, urged investigations into the American military use of "deliberate" force against civilians, the Iraqi Jurists Association said the arrest warrant against Shiite leader Muqtada Sadr is "illegal and based on a lie".

"The arrest warrant is illegal and incorrect, as the occupation forces issued it in disregard for sovereignty of Iraq's justice system," the Association said in a statement a copy of which was obtained by IslamOnline.net.

A U.S. military spokesman said two days ago the warrant had been issued "in the last several months" by an Iraqi judge investigating last April's murder of a pro-Western Shiite leader one year ago. "What justice are you talking about? You have dismissed 170 justices of their offices and violated the independence of justice here," read the statement.

<snip>

U.S. civil administrator Paul Bremer had called Sadr an "outlaw", drawing counter-accusations from the Shiite leader's aides. "If he means that Sayed Moqtada is an outlaw according to Sharia (Islamic law) and the laws we know, then Bremer knows nothing about these laws and it is he who violates these laws," said one aid.

http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2004-04/07/art...

comment: The article goes on to say that one IGA council member is threatening to quit the council over the US treatment of the Iraqi uprising. The article is interesting in that it describes the events that ignited al-Sadr's actions.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bang
The IGa goes away and * has no puppets to pull the strings on in order to have a SoFA in place when he hands over the reins.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. Who was supposed to get the "keys" on June 30?
Chalabi? This is nothing but a PR ploy to give the illusion of sovereignty while having an American bureaucrat acting as our Pontious Pilate in occupied Iraq.
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codegreen Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. holy crap
Americas presense is completely unravelling there.
i think maybe it's time to go... there isn't a shred of legitimacy left...
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. I love it. Yes, yes, yes!
"What justice are you talking about? You have dismissed 170 justices of their offices and violated the independence of justice here," read the statement.

Exactly right.

Hey, Proconsul Bremer - fuck you, say the Iraqi judges who actually know the law! :D

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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. Migod, their court system is better than ours.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Oh no they are not atheist, real atheist don't do anything like this.
We value human life because it is the only one we have. They are religiously insane like these scholars.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. They are calling Bush, as CIC, the atheist
And atheists all over the world should feel insulted.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Straw man argument
The real issue is the validity of the warrant, and the charges behind it.

Read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. You are right,,, and thanks
my post was in response to the troll bait which was, as you said, a distraction.

The Iraqi in the article did say the warrant was invalid, but for different reasons. Your post clearly states what we did was an out right frame up.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. It was disgusting to watch Rumsfeld lie today during the press conference
None of the American reporters asked the questions that needed asking. None of them challenged Bremer's rationale for shutting down the Shia newspaper. Bremer said that it advocated violence, but there was not violence until Bremer shut it down.

I watched France Deux News tonight. It clearly said that the majority of the Iraqi dead in Falluja were women and children. A French analyst referred to Iraq as an "Israeli-type quagmire."
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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Characterizing these assaults as "atheist" is completely untrue.
I don't like the religiously insane no matter their religion. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity especially suck. Religion has really fucked the world up good.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Actually It's Not Religion....
....that f***ed up the world, it's the madmen who used it, and continue to use it for their own gain.

That's who f***ed the world, and that's who is continuing to f**k it up
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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Its still around for mad man to use over and over again.
And unfortunately its getting stronger. The popularity of "Passion" and Mel Gibson is very discouraging for those of us who long for a sane world. I still say the world would be better off without it. It had some measures that were required for humans to develop- but it needs to go now.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. It's For The Use...
...of anyone that believes in it. Just like a rock is around to use, it's up to the person who picks it up to decide how to use it.

Does he make a weapon, or try to skip it across the top of a pond.

As for the "Passion" and Mel Gibson, most that went to see the movie,
evidently don't read the Bible. So far I've read the books of Matthew and Mark. There is very little description of what happened.

The movie was mainly based on the Passion plays, that were used as a way to turn Christians against the Jews, and the plays were often put on by known anti-Semites.

What does this show, that those that flocked to the movie are no more then closet sadists, that and I don't think that they really beleive in God. They just didn't want to be left out of something that was popular.

I mean the Dawn of the Dead knocked the Passion out of the top spot.
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Huh?
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 05:26 PM by markses
The report can be accurate, and this bozo making the statement still be absolutely wrong.

What's your point?
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. while you two debate religion issues, I would suggest this is a legal
issue. The Iraq justice system has a long secular history. It is based on the French justice system and was largely left alone by the Saddam regime, excepting "state" trials used in his regime.

I would pose that a free, secular judiciary is something we would all support.

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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Being an atheist
Neither proud nor otherwise, I am of course troubled by religious fanaticism of all sorts. At the end of the day, many religious people consider those of all other religions "atheists," since they don't share the same religion.

I'm not really sure what answer you're even looking for - which one would "prove your point." Is radical Islam a dangerous practice? Yes. is radical Christianity a dangerous practice? Yes. Is radical atheism a dangerous practice? Yes. So what?
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. You may have failed to comprehend the meaning of the word "atheists"
as used in the statement. It does not refer to those who disbelieve or deny the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being. It refers to non-muslims.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. What the hell are you talking about?
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. historically, the first Christians were called atheists
by the Romans.
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Someone needs to come up with, you know, the arrest warrant, signed
by an Iraqi judge (I'd bet my next paycheck if I was working he's named Challabi).

Heard a reporter recently ask the CPA spokesborg if the warrant "had been served"....well, no. I've never heard of a felony warrant being held on file before. Misdemeanor warrants, sure. But murder charge?
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. It was a "secret" warrant, anyway.
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 05:07 PM by displacedtexan
Meaning... "We just made this up the other day, and we're lying to you about having been aware of this guy, who we've decided is a murderer because his guys pulled a Tony Soprano on some rival guys (if that actually happened last year, at all."
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. It's like, say, a Lettre de Cachet
;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettre_de_cachet

In French history, lettres de cachet were letters signed by the king of France, countersigned by one of his ministers, and closed with the royal seal, or cachet. They contained orders directly from the king, often to enforce arbitrary actions and judgements that could not be appealed.

In the case of organized bodies lettres de cachet were issued for the purpose of preventing assembly or to accomplish some other definite act. The provincial estates were convoked in this manner, and it was by a lettre de cachet (in this case, a lettre de jussipri) in which the king ordered a parliament to register a law in the teeth of its own refusal to pass it.

The best-known lettres de cachet, however, were penal, by which a subject was sentenced without trial and without an opportunity of defense to imprisonment in a state prison or an ordinary jail, confinement in a convent or a hospital, transportation to the colonies, or expulsion to another part of the realm. The wealthy sometimes bought such lettres to dispose of unwanted individuals.

---snip---
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. Something Like This

"By my hand, and for the good of the State. The bearer has done what
has been done"

Richelieu
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Charges are false, warrant signed by ex-Saddam's intelligence officer
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 05:55 PM by IndianaGreen
Read the BBC and The Guardian accounts here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. Whoops,...another "persecution" tagged on the US.
Bremer,...you are fucking up, big time, along with the rest of the Bush loyalists who are every bit as despotic as any other totalitarian.

Perhaps these neocon freaks should be sent back for re-training about the tenets of both "democracy" and the structure of the US Constitution,...for which they have proven no respect.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. Another Bush/Bremer move exposed as a lie
Could we see the warrant. Better yet, have an international unbiased jurist analyze its legality.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. The media is telling to believe the same liars that
told us Saddam had WMDs. This is why I am so angry at those enablers of the press. They repeat as truth the lies they are being fed.

Al-Sadr is not a murderer and he is not a terrorist!
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. Quit IGC or work within---troubling problem.
I don't know. If all the Iraqi patriots quit the IGC then it might be even easier for the occupation to enforce its dictates after 7/1. Perhaps the governing structure can be seized by patriotic forces in Iraq. This is doubtful though and would probably lead to a US-engineered coup.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. Al-Sadr's arrest warrant was signed by Saddam's Mukhabarat officer
The US charges of murder against Al-Sadr are FALSE, and the judge that signed arrest warrant was with Saddam's secret police.

I remember the incident because it was widely discussed in DU at the time it occurred (and I saved my bookmarks). Al-Khoei was not the target, but another other cleric who had been a Saddam supporter.

There was no murder here! It was a crowd that was outraged at seeing a cleric that had worked for Saddam's Ministry of Religious Affairs.

The judge that signed the arrest warrant against Al-Sadr was a member of Saddam's much feared secret police. The US is lying as usual.

Here are the two stories, one from the BBC dated April 10, 2003, about the incident in question. The other story is from The Guardian dated October 22, 2003, about Habboush, the former Mukhabarat officer that is working for Chalabi.

Shia leader murdered in Najaf
Thursday, 10 April, 2003

A senior Shia cleric working with coalition forces has been killed inside a mosque in the Iraqi holy city of Najaf.
Abdul Majid al-Khoei returned to Iraq from exile in London only last week.

He was one of two Muslim leaders hacked to death outside the Ali Mosque, one of the holiest sites for Shia Muslims.

The other was cleric Haider Kelidar, whom according to Arabic satellite channel al-Jazeera, had worked for Saddam Hussein's ministry of religious affairs.

<snip>

He (Khoei) had noticed Mr Kelidar coming under attack by a crowd and gone to help him - but was himself knifed. Both men died.

Other reports said crowds shouted abuse at the clerics, causing Mr Khoei to produce a gun and fire shots.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2936887.stm

Plan to arrest maverick Iraqi cleric for murder

Michael Howard in Baghdad
Wednesday October 22, 2003
The Guardian

Coalition and Iraqi officials are preparing an arrest warrant for the firebrand Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr over his alleged involvement with the brutal murder of a rival cleric last spring, sources close to the Iraqi governing council told the Guardian yesterday.

The warrant, which has yet to be finalised, cites Mr Sadr for instigating a deadly attack on Abdel Majid al-Khoei, who was stabbed to death by a mob in the Shia holy city of Najaf on April 10.

It is said to be signed by Tahir Jalil Habboush - a senior mukhabarat officer under the former regime who now works with the coalition authorities - and is based on the confessions of 23 men who were involved in the killing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,10...
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Thanks for posting these--I too remember the DU discussion on Khoei (nt)
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. The American press would be reporting this if they did their legwork
instead of taking at face value the drivel they are being fed by Bremer and Rumsfeld.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
27. The Iraqi governing council
will have very little power in the governing of Iraq. The US military will be running the show for many years to come unless the continuig deaths of American soldiers finally wakes up the public with the realization that we should get the hell out of the hellhole Bush has created.
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