Kennedy evokes the Vietnam 'quagmire' fears of Americans

[T_i_B]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?...

Edward Kennedy has declared that Iraq is turning into "George Bush's Vietnam", part of what the veteran liberal senator called a "breach of trust with the American people".

At the same time, John Kerry, the likely Democratic nominee, said Mr Bush might have set the 30 June date for a handover of sovereignty to an interim Iraq government for domestic political reasons.

In an interview to be broadcast on public radio today, Mr Kerry described the June deadline as "a fiction," an arbitrary decision that had "almost certainly been affected by the election schedule".

The charges by the two Massachusetts senators one the near-certain challenger of Mr Bush in November, the other the party's grand old liberal lion will add yet more venom to an already bitter election campaign, even though almost seven months remain before the presidential vote.

http://argument.independent.co.uk/podium/story.jsp?stor...

[Just Me]

1. And rightly so!!!

And rightly so *sigh*.

Keep chargin' you liberal lion!!!

We really, really need you to keep on chargin'!!!

[Ratty]

17. It's worse. We won't be able to extricate ourselves for decades.

I think it's a BIGGER quagmire than Vietnam. There was far less at stake in Vietnam if we were to pull out of the war early. Stubbornness, American pride, and a hysterical fear of the Red Menace dominoing across Asia kept us in Vietnam.

I can't imagine we'll be able to pull out of Iraq for at least a decade. If we let Iraq go then the elected government will fall in a coup, it will become a radical Islamic state, the site of new terrorist training camps, and it will implement systematic anti-Western indoctrination of their youth in the public schools. And that's just the stuff that directly threatens our national security. I won't even bring up the ethnic tensions and the possibility for more genocide.

Clinton would have seen this. Gore would have seen it. Any president, Republican or Democrat, with a shred of intelligence would have seen it. Amazing how much damage an idiot like Bush did in just four years at the helm.

[Just Me]

24. "Vietnam on Speed",...per PapaClay,...check it out!!!

That is the best definitive post by PapaClay,...see it down under *LOL*!!!

Seriously, this whole mini-history in the making is like a "Vietnam on Speed". There were mass global demonstrations BEFORE the war took place and humanity has been all over this unwanted, unacceptable imperialistic endeavor,...a totally historical catharsis!!! This time, humanity is BEING ahead of the ball, rather than being the ball kicked all over the damned place.

Think about it,...these moments are truly monumental.

[StClone]

2. Ted is always shooting his mouth off

with the truth.

[gone fishing]

3. so should we

start referring to vietnam as jack's?

[hippiechick]

4. Actually it started under Ike/Nixon in '59 ...

n/t

[gone fishing]

6. jack sent the first combat troops

[SahaleArm]

7. The roots of Vietnam can be traced back to US support...

of France in their attempt to re-establish rule of IndoChina post WW-II. Ho Chi Minh prevented the French from re-establishing rule; from there hostilities escalated.

[gone fishing]

8. support didn't kill anyone

[puerco-bellies]

13. Support was there to kill or be killed

The folks sent before the Kennedy admin were there to gather, train, and direct forces in the field. They fought and got killed in action. No matter what they were called, they were there for combat purposes.

[mike1963]

12. Immaterial. He isn't running, he isn't in government and he isn't

campaigning.

[sendero]

18. What we should do....

... is not make the same mistake twice.

[lanlady]

5. thanks to the great State of Massachusetts--

--for Senators Kennedy and Kerry.

[Voltaire99]

9. Well done, Teddy. Which other Dems are courageous enough to say this?

Nice to see a Democrat with balls for a change. Ah, for the Old School...

The Vietnam tag should be used widely and, in a manner of speaking, liberally. Other Dems in office should be echoing Kennedy, who has put his neck on the line once again.

If they don't--if they cower before Bush as they did so reliably for the past three years--then this one won't go anywhere, and another chance to turn public opinion against this illegal and immoral war will have been lost. Speak up now, wimps!

[Just Me]

10. Courage can be contagious!!!

Please show your support for courage and call

1-800-839-5276 (Capitol Hill Switchboard #)

Let the courageous know that you support their form of contagion!!!

[goclark]

11. Thanks - I called

It did my heart good to let them know how brave he has been.

He has been a "Profile In Courage."

[calimary]

14. I second that, Just Me!

This is a TOLL FREE number, guys. It works great, takes only a few seconds out of your day, and they'll transfer you anywhere, to anybody's House and/or Senate office. You can use it to call your reps, AND THEN, MOST IMPORTANTLY, CALL KENNEDY'S OFFICE. TELL THEM THERE THAT YOU SUPPORT HIM, TOO, AND ARE GLAD HE'S SPEAKING OUT SO COURAGEOUSLY.

I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH!

Might wanna back it up with a call/email/fax/snailmail to some media outpost, too...

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And finally , PLEASE NOTE MY SIG LINE – TO CALL YOUR REPS, TOLL FREE!!!

And hey, Just Me, THIS IS GREAT! Thanks for lobbying! The more of us who do this, who know about this, and who spread the word, the sooner we can start our entire nation ON THE MEND!!! I am THRILLED that you brought this up!!! YES!!!!!

[Just Me]

16. calimary,...you are the mighty plethora of resources!!! My utmost respect

,...and Love to you!!! Together, we can light the way!!!

Together, we can make peace a reality,...

Together.

[unionpaid]

15. That should really help troop morale

Maybe they were too busy fighting the enemy to hear Kerry so they may not be affected.

[sendero]

19. Buh bye

pal.

[unionpaid]

20. What do you know about troops and morale?

The only words Kerry needs to say is that they will come home the day he is sworn in.

You think you opinion is the only right one? I'm sure there are many here that agree with me too in this respect. Who made you the judge?

[bobbieinok]

22. ????disagreeing with a war is attacking troops??? VN redux

[PapaClay]

21. Iraq like Vietnam?

Let's see:

Started for 'geopolitical' reasons? Check
Major combat involvement based on a lie? Check (WMD=Tonkin Gulf Incident)
Natural environment hostile to troops and equipment? Check
Tactical environment precludes use of many weapons systems? Check
Difficulty discriminating between combatants and civilians? Check
Lack of exit strategy? Check
Hearts and Minds, Light at the end of the tunnel rhetoric? Check
Low troop morale based on being trapped in a mis-managed clusterfuck? Check

Assertions that anyone who criticizes the war is a commie-hippie-pinko-unpatriotic-unamerican traitor? Check

Sounds like Deja Vu to me. The timeline is a lot shorter so far, so a more precise term I've heard is 'Vietnam on speed'.

Do I have some experience with troop morale? Check (20 years worth)

[Just Me]

23. "Vietnam on Speed",....WOW,...a succinct characterization!!!! *eom*