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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 05:14 AM
Original message
Scientists see climate change link to Australian floods
Source: Reuters

By David Fogarty, Climate Change Correspondent, Asia Wed Jan 12, 3:01 am ET

SINGAPORE (Reuters) Climate change has likely intensified the monsoon rains that have triggered record floods in Australia's Queensland state, scientists said on Wednesday, with several months of heavy rain and storms still to come.

But while scientists say a warmer world is predicted to lead to more intense droughts and floods, it wasn't yet possible to say if climate change would trigger stronger La Nina and El Nino weather patterns that can cause weather chaos across the globe.

"I think people will end up concluding that at least some of the intensity of the monsoon in Queensland can be attributed to climate change," said Matthew England of the Climate Change Research Center at the University of New South Wales in Sydney.

"The waters off Australia are the warmest ever measured and those waters provide moisture to the atmosphere for the Queensland and northern Australia monsoon," he told Reuters.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110112/wl_nm/us_climate_au...
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Am wondering
how many people in this country even know of the flash flooding that has happened over in Australia over the last few days? How this wall of water swept through a city?
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. What is thought to have been a 30 year El Nino
of flooding followed by a 30 year drought may have contributed to the demise of the Mocha and Inca civilisations. Climate change appears to have been a problem c. 200 years ago too.

see here :

There are several theories as to what caused the demise of the Moche political structure. Some scholars have emphasised the role of environmental change. Studies of ice cores drilled from glaciers in the Andes reveal climatic events between 536 to 594 AD, possibly a super El Nio, that resulted in 30 years of intense rain and flooding followed by 30 years of drought, part of the aftermath of the climate changes of 535536.<4> These weather events could have disrupted the Moche way of life and shattered their faith in their religion, which had promised stable weather through sacrifices.

But more recently discovered evidence demonstrates that these events did not cause the final Moche demise. Moche polities survived beyond 650 AD in the Jequetepeque Valley and the Moche Valleys. For instance, in the Jequetepeque Valley, later settlements are characterized by fortifications and defensive works. While there is no evidence of a foreign invasion, as many scholars have suggested in the past (i.e. a Huari invasion), the defensive works suggest social unrest, possibly the result of climatic changes, as factions fought for control over increasingly scarce resources.<5>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moche
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Probably volcanic in origin.
And it wasn't related to the demise of the Inca Empire which didn't yet exist in the 6th century and didn't end until the mid-16th century and whose collapse had to do with the invasion of the Spaniards, not weather.

Just a little historical fact-check.

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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yes
Wrong group.
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. El Nino is the warm spell that brings drought.
What we're experiencing now are the effects of La Nina, which brings rain and flooding.

But I have been wondering how much of this is cyclical, and how much it's being exacerbated by climate change.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. It's not hard to miss the connection...
Edited on Wed Jan-12-11 06:27 AM by Violet_Crumble
There's always been the pattern of drought followed by flood, but this is really extreme and climate change has to have something to do with it...

btw, they were saying on the news not long ago that the expected 4am peak for the Brisbane River has been revised down so it's no longer going to be higher than the 1974 flood peak. It's still going to be nasty, though...

http://www.theage.com.au/environment/weather/brisbane-r...

on edit: I just found this photo of the boardwalk I walk along to get to the office when I've been working in Brisbane (our office is one of the big ones on Eagle Street in the photo). The river looks a lot quieter in the photo than it really is at the moment...

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Swagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. definitely getting warmer and more humid in Oz as years go by
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
5. "Screw the freaking facts." - RepubliCorp International, Inc. (R)
Edited on Wed Jan-12-11 09:23 AM by SpiralHawk
"Like we give a shit. There is mega profit to be made, and we want MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE. Sneer."

- RepubliCorp International, Inc. (R)
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
8. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, Turborama.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. Duh....????!!!!!
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Synicus Maximus Donating Member (828 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. There have never been major floods in Queensland before. Except
for the ones in the 1940s. But those don't count.
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. There were bad floods in Queensland in 1974,
but this is more widespread - pretty well the whole of the eastern seaboard in Queensland. Even
the far north, where drought is the norm, has been flooded, and the run-off from the rivers in
Queensland is now affecting northern New South Wales as well.


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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. recc'd to 18
nt
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