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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 10:50 AM
Original message
Tiny Iceland takes on credit card giants in Wikileaks flap
Source: Digital Journal



Tiny Iceland takes on credit card giants in Wikileaks flap Dec 12 2010

Representatives from Mastercard and Visa were called before a parliamentary committee to explain the credit companies refusal to process donations to the whistle-blowing website Wikileaks.

People wanted to know on what legal grounds the ban was taken, but no one could answer it,
said Robert Marshall, chairman of Icelands allsherjanefnd, according to the Reykjavik Grapevine.
Vidar Thorkelsson, CEO of Valitor, which operates Visa and Mastercard in Iceland, said the Icelandic branch had nothing to do with the decision.

Meanwhile, DataCell, the Icelandic-Swiss web host is reporting that donations to Wikileaks have increased in recent days, despite the actions of Mastercard and Visa. The web host has been processing direct bank transfers to help facilitate the donations.

...
Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/301340#ixzz17ufl6...



Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/301340



A tiny country is big in heart, makes US seem shriveled in comparison.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. DataCell are already suing
what I believe to be both companies anyway.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. Iceland is not as dependent on oil as we are.
That's the big difference. They use a lot of alternative energy -- geothermal energy.

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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. interesting point!
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Virtually no one is
We consume about three times as much energy per capita as any other country, save the oil producing countries themselves.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. I wonder how much we consume if you exclude our military. They're the biggest consumers. nt
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guzzie Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. No you consume more than any other nation per capita - period.
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guzzie Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. Every country is dependant on oil - seriously WTF ?
And there are literally dozens who are entirely dependent on oil - and almost 200 hundred you are dependent in some way - but there is not one single country on earth who behave like the US dose in international relations - oil dependence is absolutely no excuse.
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freeplessinseattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. re-read, then react
"Iceland is not as dependent on oil as we are."

Nowhere does the OP suggest they don't depend on oil at all. Being less dependent is a feat in itself though.
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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
48. yeah there's a good reason for that
1. could exercise yourself walking across the country and 2. they have to provide their own power.

course one could also go to Sealand... ( http://www.sealandgov.org / ) not sure if Juilian wants to spend his time couped up on a country that could catch fire any moment



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LawnKorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. We crippled the world with our financial crap.
There seems to be some lingering resentment.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Well, Iceland Isn't without Blame by a Long Shot
The 20082010 Icelandic financial crisis is a major ongoing economic crisis in Iceland that involves the collapse of all three of the country's major commercial banks following their difficulties in refinancing their short-term debt and a run on deposits in the United Kingdom. Relative to the size of its economy, Icelands banking collapse is the largest suffered by any country in economic history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932010_Icelandi...
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. But how much of that financial crisis would have occurred
Without their "financial experts" borrowing the notions of our "financial experts?"
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. That May be True,
but they're still financial experts. They're responsible for their actions. They even pushed the Icelandic economy to greater extremes than the US. Most US experts were following the trend also.
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ExPatLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. It is important to keep in mind...
...that this was the work of a handful of individuals. Money-grubbing bankers and a corrupt government - and the rest of us our left holding the bill. Perhaps a niggling point to make, but "Iceland" did not do this. I think we tend to oversimplify far too much when attributing actions and even feelings to nations, when they apply only to individuals.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. From What I Know,
I think the Icelandic banks are probably more to blame than US banks, since leverage, property values, and general bubble economics were worse in Iceland than in the US. But the government was less culpable, in that they took greater ownership and more aggressive policies once the crisis broke.

In both cases, small groups of people were instrumental in creating the crisis.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
45. Exactly ....
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
49. Yes, but Iceland is now leading the way on how to deal
with the corruption that caused their problems. They have nationalized their banks, starting prosecuting their former leaders, have introduced legislation that would forced the Banks, who caused the problems to forgive all debt especially wrt foreclosures and are attempting to find the money that was spirited out of the country.

They threw out their corrupt, greedy, rightwing government and are now on the road back to recovery. They are a small country, the first to fall and the first to start emerging from the crisis. And the first to get rid of a government that was in the pocket of the Multi-Nationals.

I hope governments across Europe, not only fall, but that many of the corrupt greedy leaders are not allowed to go on, as Tony Blair has, to greater riches and a life of luxury, still pulling strings even though out of office. I hope like Iceland, countries will start prosecuting these crooks who were instrumental in aiding and abetting OUR criminal government.

I think there will be some big changes and the Globalists who care about no country, are scared especially with all the revelations drip, drip, dripping from the leaks published by Wikileaks showing them all up as weak, conniving, greedy, power-hungry people who cared little for the people who elected them.
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asolarski Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
54. Who is to blame?
Iceland or Iceland's corrupt banking regulators and greedy bankers? They are not one and the same. Iceland's banks were deregulated in 2001 and the rest is history.
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molly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. aquart
love the understatement.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Indeed. USA =
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Dear Emma!
Dear Emma

Enjoy!
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. And what would our Congress do?
Well, we know what our ass-kissing Whorehouse of Representatives would do...kiss the asses of the CEOs who run Mastercard and Visa...
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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. I applaud anyone who takes on monsters. Go Iceland! n/t
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redirish28 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. Iceland...The 22nd century "America"? Standing up for what is right and justed?
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wkileaks exposed the corruption that led to the banks crashing in Iceland.
Iceland will support Wikileaks.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
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ExPatLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. Iceland: We've got our problems...
...but standing up to Goliaths ain't one of them.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. Bravo! Courage like that is inspiring. nt
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yes,
:kick:
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. Woo-HOO! I agree...major BRAVO to Iceland!
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
20. Bravo Iceland nt k&r
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marylanddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. Since I donated via mastercard
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 04:16 PM by marylanddem
about a week ago - before they shut off donations - my credit card has been rejected twice (though there's plenty of credit on it) - When I called mastercard - both times - the wikileaks donation was mentioned. The first time it was called "suspicious activity" and the second - no explanation. I was assured it would not happen again but I feel like Big Brother has his eyes on me...
I just wonder if others have had this experience.
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Ruperto31 Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. You can still use credit cards donate to Wikileaks through Xipwire
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
24. The fact that they have no explanation for refusing to process
donations says it all....
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
25. I don't understand why people think a bank can't decide what you can do with it's money.
They aren't saying you can't contribute your own money. They're just saying you can't borrow their money to contribute with.
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. The bank cannot pick and choose how one spends one's unsecured credit line
What if they said you can't contribute to DU? It is not THEIR money ... it is the card holders' money. In effect, when a bank issues you a $10,000 line of credit, you have signed a promissory note which is the bank's asset and not the money itself ... the money is yours.

For banks to have this kind of control would create a second de facto government where they can say you can't shop at certain stores or buy certain magazines or certain products.
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. The banks and retailers already have control over how you use their money
because not all retailers can accept credit cards unless they pay a fee. At Costco, they have arranged a lower rate to pay with American Express to exclusively accept American Express cards. You may argue that this is the retailers decision but in this case, American Express is giving them a better rate for the exclusivity as well, so it is the bank deciding you can't use Visa or Mastercard there.

I can't use my Visa or Mastercard to purchase from a local artists studio here in Kansas City because she can't afford their fees. By charging a fee for a retailer to use their service, they already control which stores you can and cannot shop at.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. NO, in that case the retailer controls how i can pay them. not the bank.
the bank owes me whatever money is in my checking and savings account and should not prevent me from spending it, as i choose. a retailer can prevent me from spending money in a certain form, but not the bank.

its not their money. its my money.
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rasputinkhlyst Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. Nope banks control the FEE for the merchant and consumer
... and the line of credit. If the merchant does not want to pay the bank fee the merchant can opt out of using the card, and if the consumer still desires to purchase from that merchant, the purchase can be done via a cash advance, should the consumer so desire. Therefore, the control of whom one purchases from is not absolute, although the upper limit of how much you may purchase is set.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #28
55. That's really tortured logic. -nt
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #26
51. That sounds right, and very well-expressesd,
also.
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Fokker Trip Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #25
47. Yeah...thats it
You just keep defending those banks you little Authoritarian you.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #25
50. Hmm. You do have a point, there...
... if you're still silly or desperate enough to use usurous credit, rather than direct debit cards. Or, you know, straight cash.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
32. Good for them..excellent. n/t
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egoclothes Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
33. YO Icelanders. Good on you!
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
36. Recommend
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R
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colsohlibgal Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
41. You Go Iceland!
Congratulations Iceland, you've moved way up on my list of favorite nations. As old HST would say/do, give 'em Hell!
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Shining Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
42. So freaking K&R!
Tiny land of the free and home of the brave for real!
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Arrowhead2k1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
43. I love Iceland, K&R but...
Damn, they've got to learn how to spell stuff so that normal people can pronounce them. allsherjanefnd... Reykjavik?? Gibberish to me. :rofl:
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
44. They are frozen, but they have balls.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
46. US government is "shriveled" because it now represents only elites/corporates ....
reverting back to its earliest days -- cruel, brutal, violence -- crimes and theft --

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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
52. K&R n/t
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VeryConfused Donating Member (725 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
53. Valiant effort, but I think ultimately futile
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