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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:39 PM
Original message
A Secretive Banking Elite Rules Trading in Derivatives
Source: New York Times

On the third Wednesday of every month, the nine members of an elite Wall Street society gather in Midtown Manhattan.The men share a common goal: to protect the interests of big banks in the vast market for derivatives, one of the most profitable and controversial fields in finance. They also share a common secret: The details of their meetings, even their identities, have been strictly confidential.
Drawn from giants like JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, the bankers form a powerful committee that helps oversee trading in derivatives, instruments which, like insurance, are used to hedge risk.In theory, this group exists to safeguard the integrity of the multitrillion-dollar market. In practice, it also defends the dominance of the big banks.
The banks in this group, which is affiliated with a new derivatives clearinghouse, have fought to block other banks from entering the market, and they are also trying to thwart efforts to make full information on prices and fees freely available.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/business/12advantage....




PROTECTING THE CUSTOMER Daniel Singer runs a heating oil company in Elmsford, N.Y., and is a derivatives customer. In order to offer homeowners fixed-rate oil plans, he buys derivatives contracts. But since the trading system is not transparent, he cant tell whether the prices he gets are fair or not.
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. No need to worry, banksters. Obama and his cabinet has your back!
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
48. +1000!
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #48
69. X another 1000
The Democratic Party Leadership HAD these criminal bankers on the ropes in early 2008,
before the Great Bailout Scam.
They COULD have demanded concessions (regulations) BEFORE handing over the BILLIONS (like they DID from the Auto Workers)....but AFTER giving them the money?
LOL.
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Captain Beefheart Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #69
84. Tell your Attorney General to hold the big banks accountable for mortgage fraud-email form to AGs
Click this link to send an email to every state Attorney General if you've had enough of this Bull$hit!

Dear Attorneys General, We, the undersigned thank you for investigating fraudulent and illegal foreclosure practices by the nation's biggest banks.

It only takes a minute. Plus 1000!
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Captain Beefheart Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. What did Presidents Lincoln, McKinley, and Kennedy have in common?
They ALL were against the BANKING FRAUDSTERS and they ALL GOT ASSASSINATED!
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Price-fixing cartel?
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Manipulating and fixing
with their insider info and computerized, high-frequency trading, the sort of thing that would have earned a stiff prison sentence a few decades ago.
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
44. nah.... not in THIS teabaggers America..... SARAH!!! you got some 'splaining to do!!!
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
81. Sherman Antitrust Act, Clayton Antitrust Act, RICO?
Where are the lawyers? Neutered by the GOP?
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. when I keep seeing things like this, and it's never ending
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 10:47 PM by sasha031
wish we could have Bernie Sanders on the Senate floor ever day educating us.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. June 23, 2008
Sen. Barack Obama rolled out a proposal yesterday to curb speculation in energy markets, which his advisers said would help stabilize soaring gasoline prices.

http://washingtonpolicyblog.typepad.com/washington_poli...


Still waiting..............
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. We will keep waiting,
won't we?
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Sadly, yeah
:argh:
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
71. Yep. All hat, no cattle. nt
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
26. Watch. By the time it gets put into effect, if ever, it will cost taxpayers plenty.
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howaboutme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
64. Goldman pumped up oil to 150/bbl using speculation
knowing that it would prick the housing bubble and allow them to profit with their credit default swaps that shorted AIG. They are always on the right side of the trade because they are always on the phone to the Fed and Geithner telling them which policies to implement and which ones to skip. They surely told them to forget this one on commodities. They might be working on another prick. http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-made-billi...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q 1,048,800 views and going to 2 million and then to 300 million.

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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. When will Wikileaks be releasing their material on banking?
Looking forward to that one with great anticipation.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. same here
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
54. Same here also
Turn on the lights before the rats have time to scurry back into their hidey-holes.
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. Was this source from Wikileaks?
This is the kind of corruption they will be exposing...I don't think that this is a US phenomenon...International elites are trying to rule the world in a system of neo-feudalism...The rest of us are just peasants who do their bidding and get a few crumbs along the way.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
37. Me too
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
55. Me three.......
They (Winky-Links :)) need to start concentrating on the REAL rulers of the world. And that's NOT governments.
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
68. January if I recall correctly. n/t
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howaboutme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. And the game isn't rigged?
It's a big casino scam and they win and we lose. Conspiracy is probably too kind of a description for what takes place with our money. All the stuff you read about that the PTB claims are absurd false conspiracies are probably only scratching the surface. Many if not most of the problems in America can be traced back to these NY bankster schemers who oddly are able to receive immunity from investigative media coverage and corrective action by the government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q 1,046,300 views and going to 2 million.
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. "They want more for themselves and less for everybody else."
He definitely has their number.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. It's our plutonomy.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. MARKING YOUR COMMENT FOR VIEWING IN THE MORNING.
Sorry about the Huge Type. it's time for bed.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. Recommend
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. K&R n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. Evidently, hedge funds and derivatives are something like $56 trillion???
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. Depending on whether you read

Nomi Prins "It Takes a Pillage" or "The Looting of America" or any of a dozen good sources...

The stated value ranges from $50 trillion to $750 trillion.

Problem is

1) They are all off-the-books, so no one outside their organizations really know what they are valued at <<biggest factor in why no one person or org knows

2) They are derivatives, and since derivatives only value is what they "derive" from real assets, they fluctuate continuously.

If we assemble 1000 home loans into a CDO, we can make a fairly decent estimate. There is some value there, but in the time
it takes us to evaluate everything, that might (and probably will) change. Even so, it's stable enough to work with.

If we then buy a credit swap on that CDO, we make a determination as to risk. At that point it starts getting creative,
and will vary between firms.

If we then put 50 swaps on the same bond, all to different parties, it becomes a matter of pure guesswork (you can throw
in stats to make it look respectable, but...) because the mere act of writing that much on a loan changes the nature of
risk on the loan, thus invalidating the model.

Now do all those same swaps and trades between myriad banks, investment groups, do it within the continental U.S. and abroad. And while you are at it, combine a bunch of CDO's into Structured Investment Vehicles, then put swaps on it. None of the institutions had enough in assets to cover the bets they made, thus the reason for the bailout.

On the other hand, there has been enough exposed to see the greed and reckless, maybe even criminal behavior that was behind the whole scheme.

One more thing - it's not over. There is at least $2 trillion in funds that will never come back, the Bernank is still throwing money at marekets which are not acting like the Fed, apparently, expected. In addition the housing market and unemployment are still teetering on the edge of a cliff, and there are still toxic assets, CDO's, swaps, and SUV's out there which haven't completely collapsed.

We are in the middle of a giant experiment, and no one knows what is going to happen, despite all these reports.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
78. $750 trillion .... !!! There is a solution ....
we need to uninvent money -- the dollar bill and the coin --

!!!

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
79. Thanks for the info .... agree re housing and unemployment and will add ....
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 11:34 PM by defendandprotect
FED staring at it and opining whether to move any further re the economy --

and Obama being ineffectual as usual --

Of course, a large dose of LAW could help us all out here -- !!

But that seems to be something that's to be ignored as a remedy for anything

any longer -- !!



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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
13. knr nt
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. The president has shown a willingness to learn, Ivan Seidenberg

The president has shown a willingness to learn, Ivan Seidenberg, CEO of Verizon Communications Inc. chairman of the Business Roundtable and a prior critic, said Dec. 8 at a news conference in Washington.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-11/president-obam...

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
80. Lucky us ... a pro-corporate group likes what Obama is learning ... !!!
These are 250 or more of the most active corporations trying to

destroy anything that harms corporate/elite profits --

Hallmark Cards, for instance, working against women's rights --

how many women buy these stupid cards every day?

What if they knew?

They've working on anything that benefits labor --

destroying it, that is --
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
16. Big K & R !!!
:kick:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
18. Derivatives and secondary markets are not transparent, dwarf equities. Wall St is an inside game
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 02:47 AM by leveymg
Conventional economic presuppose "perfect information" and "rational market" behavior by players with essentially equal information about what's going on in markets. However, this article shows that to be essentially a myth.

No wonder the U.S. is screwed - most of the conservative free market economic theory that it operates with is fundamentally flawed.
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savannah43 Donating Member (198 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. "Free market" newly defined.
It now means bankers can do whatever they want whenever they want.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
58. Re: secrecy
It is impossible to find the current basis points for a CDS on US treasuries.
This number is a secret.
How can the average person buy a 10 or 30 year bond without knowing whether the gangsters in the article are
betting against them?

Goldman was pushing "AAA' MBS, while insuring against the default they knew was coming.
If they are pulling the same scam on bonds, this economy's days are numbered.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. I'll bet the prices show that the banksters expect U.S. Bonds collapse
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 02:48 PM by leveymg
The Fed believes that information would panic the flock, further raising the costs of puffing up the U.S. equities markets.

They want an "orderly collapse," not the kind where there's a run on the banks.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Agree
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 03:29 PM by SOS
The bond spread in 2008 hit something like 380 bp, but that's the most recent number I could find.
The more I read about Milton Friedman's shock treatment and crisis exploitation, the more suspicious I become.

Either the Wall Street bankers are the stupidest, greediest businesspeople in human history or
we are in the middle of an oligarchic coup.

After witnessing the lies and deception surrounding the crisis creation in Iraq, I'm starting to suspect
a MIHOP scenario in our current economic situation.

The facts so far:
Wall Street banks get trillions in taxpayer money.
Bonuses and profits reach record heights in 2009.
The average American gets wiped out.

How convenient.

On edit: The timing. September 2008.
Just a few weeks before the election with polls showing a Democratic win.
Time to cash out?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #66
75. Time to cash out = capital flight. Look at Krugman's early work on BOP crises
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 08:57 PM by leveymg
Then study Summers' IMF models for controlled implosion of the Former Soviet Union.

Put the two together = model for banking management of post-Cold War superpower collapse. Remember the term, "last rogue superpower?" Well, they did something about the potential problem.

We're being collapsed, in manageable stages. The September '08 bubble decompression was just one step of many, downward. The election of a centrist with populist appeal a few months later was the next. The assault on public pensions is another. A GOP Congress and divided, paralyzed Congress is part of it. De-funding Social Security is next.

If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, nothing will.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. It scares the shit out of me. Your dot-connecting makes too much sense.
"We're being collapsed, in manageable stages."

It sure looks that way, doesn't it?
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. K & R nt
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micraphone Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
20. FGS this is why Wikileaks under attack..
Heads up people - it's because he is going after THE BANKS next!

This current crop if low level shit just that.

But the banks - Sheet.

Now THAT has a lot of Gov on both side running scared, from GS, Fed (which is private, Halliburton, BFEE et al, and tied to the Swiss, s**ting bricks.

THAT is the big deal here. They are trying to get JA out of the way first.

Get real.
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Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
21. Their identities are confidential? Ha! Just look at Obama's economic advisers and you'll know the
identities of the global oligarchy. Geithner, Summers, Rubin, Kissinger, Dimon, et al.
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molly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #21
40. Citizen Worker
You just won that debate.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
67. The members of the
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 03:52 PM by chervilant
Global Oligarchy are few in number (less the 370), yet they own and control more than 45% of the world's resources, including human resources.

The top 400 richest people are from Australia, Austria, Bahama, Belgium, Bermuda, Brazil, Chile, China, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, England, Egypt, France, Germany, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Japan, Kazakhstan, Korea (South), Kuwait, Lebanon, Malaysia, Mexico, Monaco, Norway, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Sweden, Spain, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela.

Despite the geographic diversity of the uber wealthy, their common socioeconomic status renders each a member of Richistan, whose citizenry enjoy the rarest of comestibles, the finest accommodations, the most expensive trinkets, and richly appointed, exclusive residences. Denizens of Richistan travel in private jets, yachts, and limos; and they NEVER discuss their wealth.

Fully one-third of the wealthiest 400 are from the United States. Almost half of the 50 wealthiest people are from the United States. (Bill Gates was toppled from his rarefied status as the richest person on the planet in March of this year; replaced by Mexican mogul Carlos Slim Helu.)

When you contemplate this radical income inequity, dear reader, please understand viscerally, that you are NOT a member of this exclusive club, nor are you likely to EVER be. You are an insignificant member of the vast hoi polloi. The denizens of Richistan comprise a mere 5.8 X 10^(-10)% of our planet's population. For those of you who are math illiterate (please, understand that you are likely to have had a less than optimal experience learning math, for a reason), that number is 0.00000000058% You are more likely to win the lottery than join their ranks.

We the People (globally) must STOP snarfing the wealth carrot meme. Raising awareness about radical income inequity is merely the first step in our species' choosing a different evolutionary path.

As ever, I remain sincerely,

Ms. Silence B. Damned
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
22. Profits ultimately fed by
foreclosures, empty retirement accounts and newly homeless.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
57. That's for damn sure!
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. It's a less than zero-sum game.
For some to make millions, many have to be totally wiped out.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
24. what a shock
collusion amongst the elite to preserve their position
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
25. We can trust these elites to do the right
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 05:32 AM by Enthusiast
thing for the country. And we have no need to know. This secrecy is in the interest of national security.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
28. My, my. Where are our manners? Greet our real leaders hospitably, y'all.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
31. Bernie was a little guy.
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Red Knight Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
32. "The banks are not good at self-regulation." Duh.
And the profits on most derivatives are masked. In most cases, buyers are told only what they have to pay for the derivative contract, say $25 million. That amount is more than the seller gets, but how much more $5,000, $25,000 or $50,000 more is unknown. Thats because the seller also is told only the amount he will receive. The difference between the two is the banks fee and profit. So, the bigger the difference, the better for the bank and the worse for the customers.

It would be like a real estate agent selling a house, but the buyer knowing only what he paid and the seller knowing only what he received. The agent would pocket the difference as his fee, rather than disclose it. Moreover, only the real estate agent and neither buyer nor seller would have easy access to the prices paid recently for other homes on the same block.



Snip....


One former regulator warned against deferring to the banks. Theo Lubke, who until this fall oversaw the derivatives reforms at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, said banks do not always think of the market as a whole as they help write rules.

Fundamentally, the banks are not good at self-regulation, Mr. Lubke said in a panel last March at Columbia University. Thats not their expertise, thats not their primary interest.




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droidamus2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
33. Free and open markets?
Isn't this the same crowd that always screams that we need no government regulation because 'free and open markets' will regulate themselves. Now we see what they mean which is free and open markets will allow them to fill their pockets with even more money. Pure supply and demand capitalism (if there is such a thing) requires that new competitors can enter the market when things are out of equilibrium. With these fatcats controlling entry into the business what we have effectively is a monopoly (is there a word for control by a few companies rather than just one?).
I am going through some hard times myself, possible foreclosure and bankruptcy, and one thing I can tell from going through this is the 'money people' don't take risks for the most part. The whole thing is rigged so when push comes to shove the risk is on the little guy and the big guys just have another martini and big cigar and laugh on their way to the bank or in this case I guess laugh while they sit in their big office at the bank.
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Red Knight Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Oligopoly nm
nm
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Ex Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
36. you can find this article posted on FR. they don't like it either.
If both sides are against this, surely we can do something about it. Right? Right? Yeah, I know, I'm dreaming.
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secondwind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
38. Can't this be stopped? Everyone, you SHOULD GO SEE INSIDE JOB -- it's an eye opener!
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Excellent movie!
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #39
49. it was excellent, and chilling, too...seeing the SAME scoundrels, admin after after admin
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howaboutme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
62. Is it on DVD yet?
I just called Blockbuster and surprise they who profit from an entertained uninformed public and who give us such intellectual tributes as Piranha 3d and Last Exorcism never heard of it. I'll need to do some internet searching. They still don't have Gasland in their system.
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howaboutme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. Don't forget - these are the RICH people in the Republican tax cuts
When we start analyzing the question - who are these "RICH" who the Republicans and now Obama supports and who will benefit the most by having the tax cuts extended?

The answer is usually "small business" owners which is BS. The richest segment in America are represented typically by those rigging the system and mentioned in this article - Wall Street, Goldman, NYC banksters, financiers, financial services, hedge fund operators. In America they have become the mega rich and we just finished bailing them out, and now they want tax cuts.

A better question is where are the pitchforks and torches?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q 1,048,000 views and going to 2 million
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
41. Wow, the cost of goods sold is immaterial for pricing now. Corps continue to hammer down labor
costs as much as possible, parts and raw materials continue to be bid out/out-sourced. Who's gonna be able to purchase products? I suppose those deemed credit-worthy by the banksters will be allowed to survive as long as they continue to generate income through usary fees.

We really are all fodder units now.

"St Peter dontcha call me cuz I can't go...I owe my soul to the company store."
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
43. K&R
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
45. Precisely why these gambling games need to be outlawed completely.
They add nothing to the brick economy, and in fact, are a drag on it.

Time for old Judge Lynch to start riding soon, looks like. Never thought I'd see him again.
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Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
46. k&r !
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
47. It used to be called the commission.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
50. Hey didn't Jesse Ventura crash the party?
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colsohlibgal Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
51. Our Filthy Rich Masters
Their credo is the modern equivalent of "let them eat cake".

I've never really bought into the Bilderberg group paranoia but maybe it's not all that far fetched, at least the essence of it.

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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. Why not?
What we're seeing in gov't is Kabuki. Everything is a show to provide the illusion of representation while getting us to agree to sign our lives away.

Wouldn't that work better worldwide if all of the power brokers met once a year and agreed upon the policy direct and script?

To write off conspiracy theories is to accept the idea that the rich and powerful have no ambitions never plan anything.

Is that idea really so easy to swallow?
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FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
52. A Secretive Banking Elite Rules our Politcal System (Country)
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
53. What a grand band of thieves. They must be grand to have entitlement to such secrecy where OUR
money is concerned. :sarcasm:
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Smashcut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
56. Antitrust anyone?
ANYONE?

OBAMA?
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
60. I found this particularly telling:
How did big banks come to have such influence that they can decide who can compete with them?

Ironically, this development grew in part out of worries during the height of the financial crisis in 2008. A major concern during the meltdown was that no one not even government regulators fully understood the size and interconnections of the derivatives market, especially the market in credit default swaps, which insure against defaults of companies or mortgages bonds. The panic led to the need to bail out the American International Group, for instance, which had C.D.S. contracts with many large banks.

In the midst of the turmoil, regulators ordered banks to speed up plans long in the making to set up a clearinghouse to handle derivatives trading. The intent was to reduce risk and increase stability in the market.


I told people that the crash would be used to consolidate power. This was a deliberate crash, with deliberate results.

I guess it's just more fun to pretend that these people have no idea what they are doing.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
65. I think it would be VERY educational for the people..............
to know EXACTLY who these guys are and EXACTLY where they meet. Any NYCers want to take on that project? And POST it?
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
70. There is no conspiracy
:sarcasm:
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
72. Jesus. "James J. Hill?" Cue the robber barons, we really HAVE turned the clock back. n/t
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
73. The gangster bankster vampires never sleep!
:puke:
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harvey007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
74. This should be easy to figure out
"On the third Wednesday of every month, the nine members of an elite Wall Street society gather in Midtown Manhattan."

...."They also share a common secret: The details of their meetings, even their identities, have been strictly confidential."

Let's give a pulitzer prize to the first journalist who exposes their identities.

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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. but they have Mr. Assange in jail right now....
'...details of their meetings, even their identities, have been strictly confidential...'

....economic terrorists?....if what they're doing is hush-hush and secret, wouldn't that be describing an economic conspiracy with the intent to defraud?
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Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
82. .
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-13-10 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
83. Kick.
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