Nader makes Bush his target (in Portland OR) | Oregonian

[Ediacara]

Nader makes Bush his target
The candidate says he hopes to gain a spot on Oregon's ballot this week to focus the Democrats and to defeat the president

04/04/04
JEFF MAPES

Ralph Nader, insisting he can be a help and not a hindrance to the Democrats this year, will test the appeal of his latest presidential campaign Monday when he holds a convention in Portland to qualify for Oregon's ballot.

Nader plans to gather 1,000 voters at one time in the downtown Roseland Theater, an infrequently used tactic that would put him on the fall ballot.

If he can do that -- and Nader organizers are confident he can -- Oregon will be the first state where he has gained ballot access for the 2004 election. And it will be an early gauge of the kind of support Nader will be able to gather in his third consecutive run at the presidency.

More at the Oregonian

[Media_Lies_Daily]

1. Why is it that I'm having a VERY dificult time trusting this dirtbag?...

Could it be how he performed prior to the 2000 coup he helped bring about?

[Joanne98]

2. I'm waiting. He hasn't touched Bush yet.

[The Zanti Regent]

12. He touched my nephew

Thanks to F'n Nader, Jon lies in the hospital, a quadraplegic thanks to an Iraqui bullet.

Jon admits he will NEVER vote GOP again, he wants to vote for Kerry, but I wonder who will help him to vote? I know Nader won't lift a finger to help him, since that self-centered egomaniac only cares about himself

BURN IN HELL NADER FOR WHAT YOU DID TO MY JON!

[Malva Zebrina]

33. I am so sorry

:cry:

I hate George Bush--the AWOL coward and I hate what he and Cheney have done to our children with lies. I will add Colin Powell to that as well and Condi Rice and the whole corrupted, corporated, current government. They think they can run this country like a corporation and obviously so far, that means bullying everyone who gets in tehir way.

Well we do not need to allow them to have their way with us.

We need to rise up--we need to scream and shout. thes people that are taking our children--killing them and maiming them for thier own greed, need to kicked out on their ass.

Let them go back to their mansions in Texas--and their "ranches" their faux ranches where they get all sorts of tax benefits for harboring a few cows--just get them out of our government--they are evil--they can retire in luxury--let them lose their souls


We are in crisis and we need to kick them out.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

40. oh right-it's nader's fault

and all of us who voted for him and all the peopele who backed him, like phil donahue, jim hightower, michael moore, janeane garofalo, cormell west, noam chomsky, and the rest of thoser rightwingers

yeah, we caused the war in iraq, while kerry, who VOTED FOR IT is completely innocent of any wrongdoing because he was 'misled' and was too stupid to see what millions protesting worldwide could

sorry, i don't buy the 'forgive kerry, because he was dumb' argument'

before you attack good-intentioned progressives who campaigned against the corporatist gore years back in 2000, you might want to pin blame on a man who was so concerned about how he would look to voters in a presidential election that he couldn't do the right thing and oppose giving the chimp the power to do the most ill-conceived, evil piece of forien policy in this country's recent history

"Vote Kerry. Bush may start wars but he only supports them"

[Daisey Mae]

3. After not listening to the American people,

and butting out of this important election, being financed to Repuklicans, and other sundry bullshit...".RALPH the horrible "expects to fool us again? I THINK NOT..

[Sinistrous]

4. Ralph Nader is not stupid.

That leaves, as an explanation for his behavior, that he is either lying or psychotic.

[eablair3]

15. Why aren't the Democrats out there saying what Ralph Nader is saying?

Why haven't they for the last 3.5 years been standing up to Bush and the Repugs. Most of them, including Kerry, voted to authorize Bush to go to war. BushCo are well-known liars. Most, including many many Dems and pro-peace proponents knew that making war on Iraq was criminal. Even the Green Party issued press releases and statements opposing giving Bush that authority. Heck, even some Repugs like Scott Ritter were out there knowing it and saying it.

But, most of the Dems, including John Kerry, voted to give Bush the authority to go to war. Where were these Dems?

And, do we need to get into the issues of national universal health care, "free" trade, and media conglomeration, just to name a few?

If these "Dem" leaders and other "Dems" are so concerned about Nader, they ought to come out and do something constructive about their concerns -- like supporting some pro-democracy reform like IRV somewhere instead of being consistently and adamantly opposed to it.

All these "protests" against Nader are just hypocritical and ring hollow -- completely. Nader says what the Dems should be saying. The DLC doesn't like it, and like the Repugs, they and their dittoheads will villify and demonize someone like Nader. They did it to Dean, and they marginalized Kucinich.

So, I say .. go get 'em Ralph Nader!!

[chemp]

32. my (hopeful) Nader Spin

Facts:

1. Nader says he is help, not hinderance to Kerry
2. Nader says he and Dems share same goals
3. Nader plans to meet with Kerry, strategize
4. Rich Republicans in force, have reached their $2000 limit donated to Bush, and see a just value to their $$$ donating it to Nader
5. Nader has stated a few times that Dem candidates need to become more animated, less stoic

My conclusion:

1. Nader truly wants to help the Dems, and extract Bush.
2. He wishes to help Kerry get the message out, and keep him ON MESSAGE.
3. In Key Battleground states, all of which Gore would have won w/o Nader, Nader will spend his Republican donations on ads attacking Bush, saying little to nothing about Kerry.
4. He will leave behind his " the Two Parties are the same" talk, focusing on the faults and criminality of the Bush Regime.
5. This is where I cross my fingers and hope I'm right, Nader drops out, endorsing Kerry, for a Sec of Commerse, or similar post
OR
Nader never submits enough signatures to make the ballot in the battleground states, but as a candidate, gets the message out. Non-battleground sates are free to vote for Nader, knowing that there will be little significance in the outcome.

Pipedream, or possiblitiy. Only time will tell.

[Old and In the Way]

5. If you want to help Democrats, Ralph.

Don't run. IMHO, he could have hit the DNC for a couple of mill and done a 6 month Mea Culpa Tour. He could explain how, he too, was totally blindsided by just how horrible Bush turned out. He could tell us that he was dead wrong when he said, "there's no difference between Republicans and Democrats".

Trouble is, the Mea Culpa Tour would get no media oxygen.

[DinahMoeHum]

6. Yeah, Ralph, just tell your followers to vote Democrat. . .

even if they have to hold their noses doing it.


:kick:

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ediacara]

10. perhaps if Ralph refused donations from Republicans

I'd really believe he was in it for Democracy.

Or maybe if he campaigned in places like Nebraska, and Oklahoma (where Dems have no chance of being hurt by a spoiler), I'd really believe he was in in for Democracy.

Instead, a petty personal fued with Al Gore, and now an ego the size of Texas, is fueling the largest subversion of Democracy in American history....

[The Zanti Regent]

16. Like THESE donations?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0327-05.htm

[eablair3]

18. since you

since you put this in quotes:

"there's no difference between Republicans and Democrats".


maybe you can cite a source and link for where and when Raph Nader said that? I know it has become a mantra of some "Dems". But, please back it up. I'd guess that you believe that the so-called "Dems" don't engage in misrepresentations and demonizing like the Repugs do, so please give me link showing those exact words out of Nader's mouth.

[Ediacara]

26. the exact words did not come from Ralph's mouth

you're right.

BUT they did come from the Green Party.

I remember posters all over Seattle posted on 5th November 2000, that read like this:

A VOTE FOR GORE

=

A VOTE FOR BUSH

--------

VOTE NADER/LA DUKE

--------

Payed for by the Green Party of Washington State


Don't you DARE tell me that this is not the message the greens were sending out. It doesn't matter AT ALL if it came out of Ralph's mouth, it came from his party.

[takebackourjobs]

27. There may not be a link available

But I've heard it from his mouth on several occasions on national television. I don't think a link is necessary when he personally says it so often.

[newyawker99]

43. Hi takebackourjobs!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Old and In the Way]

28. Try this site.

http://www.damnedbigdifference.org/quotes

“The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door. That’s the only difference,” he said. “The two parties ... are becoming one corporate party, with two heads wearing different makeup, and that is not a good enough choice for the American people.”
In a speech at Amherst College, 10-04-00

And here is what Ralph did for this country in the last election to distort the will of the majority:

The math is simple: Gore lost the pivotal Florida race, officially, by only 537 votes, while Nader pulled 97,488. Additionally, Gore only needed 7,000 more votes to take New Hampshire, but Nader got 22,156 potential Gore votes away.

[ashling]

7. %&%$@*###!!!!!!

Ralph is suffering from a messianic complex. He either can't see that he takes votes away from the Dems, thus strengthening Bush's percentages, or he doesn't care.

To people inclined to vote for Nader because they are not enamoured with Kerry: Your vote is not your EGO, Its your vote! Put it where it will do some good and defeat Bush!

[Old and In the Way]

8. "Your vote is not your EGO"

Indeed, well stated!

What I find so ironic about the "radicals" who won't vote for Kerry is that, while they are so eager to socialize America, they aren't willing to socialize their vote. LOL!

Welcome aboard, ashling!

[ashling]

19. Thanks

I was reading a book on why people don't vote (sorry, can't remember the title.) They interviewed a lot of folks who said that no one was "worthy" of their vote.

Give me a Break!!!

This is the same type of thinking that leads people to vote for Nader.

[Ediacara]

25. woops

responded to the wrong post

[MoonRiver]

11. You, Ralph Nader, are complicit in the deaths of 3000+ Americans

on 9/11; 600+ American soldiers (to date) in Iraq; tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis (aka collateral damage) since *'s war crime involving the invasion of a sovereign nation on the basis of outright LIES. And exactly WHY are you complicit? Let me count the ways. You undermined our 2000 Democratic candidate with venomous spins stating that there is NO difference between Repubs and Dems (YEAH, RIGHT! JUST LOOK AT THE LAST 3 YEARS OF HORROR TO REFUTE). You took enough votes away from the actual winner of the 2000 election (in case you forgot that's AL GORE) to enable a corrupt SCOTUS to award little emperorwannabe his pResidency. Thus began the death toll of all those who have fallen under this fascist regime. Happy?

Now, my message to you is: GO TO HELL. Go straight to HELL. Do NOT pass GO. Do not collect $100. Just get thee to HELL, where you have earned a special place within its deepest bowels. Enjoy.

[The Zanti Regent]

14. Carville on Nader D Liar:

http://www.damnedbigdifference.org/quotes

"I think Ralph Nader is the biggest liar in American politics when he said it didn't matter who was president."
James Carville
Thursday, October 11, 2001
The Northwestern Daily

Burn in hell for what you did to my Jon, Nader, Burn in hell (Preferably sent there by a Corvair!)

[bobbyboucher]

37. How fuckin' hysterical

can you get?

It's all Nader's fault!

Just keep telling yourself that. You'll guarantee another Bush term.

[Tommy_Douglas]

41. Nader is not complicent in any deaths...

He ran. (Legally I might add) because he felt that people on the left don't truly have a party to represent him. I don't fault his ideals. Beating George Bush is huge to be sure, but blaming Nader for the Dems failures isn't the way to do it.

I mean the Democrats signed off on this war and have more or less let Bush have his way since he's been in office. Are they all (Kerry included) therefore not to be faulted for the deaths that have insued from 9/11 and Iraq/Afghanistan?

[stevedeshazer]

13. Excuse me.

Shouldn't your anger be directed at Bushco?

[The Zanti Regent]

17. We are in this situation because of Nader's megalomania

No, in 2000 King Ralph and his pals Hightower, Glover, Sarandon, Robbins, etc ran all over swing states saying there was no difference between Bush and who they dared call "AL WHORE".

FACT

President Gore would not have lied to Americans and sent young people to die in Iraq.

Nader looks at all those tax cuts Bush gave him, he openly met with his buddy Grover Norquist and he's doing the same shit again.

IF NADER SCREWS YOU AGAIN, YOUR SON OR DAUGHTER MAY BE THE NEXT TO DIE IN IRAN, VENEZUELA, SYRIA OR ANYWHERE ELSE. STOP NADER BEFORE HE HURTS YOUR FAMILY LIKE HE HURT MINE!

[eablair3]

20. what a warped post

Nader is now responsible for Americans dying in Iraq? How warped is that? Nader speaks out against it. He didn't vote to give Bush the authority to go to war, like Kerry and many other "Dems" did.

I'd much rather be mentioned with the likes of Glover, Sarandon, Robbins, and Hightower, than to be considered with Joe Lieberman, Terry McAuliffe and the DLC.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. Nader took votes from Gore that made the election that much closer...

...close enough for the NeoCons to use the SCOTUS as a means to pull off a bloodless coup in December 2000.

Thanks for helping to give us the NeoCon Junta.

One more point...Nader says quite a few things that he either can't back up, or are outright lies.

[The Zanti Regent]

34. Nader put Bush in the White House!

No matter how you try and spin that, that is what that liar did.

[stevedeshazer]

22. Please. Wrong target.

Self-destructive. I'm just keeping the game alive by posting here, but somehow I'm drawn in like a moth to a flame.

Nader-bashers say everything the Bush Administration has done is Nader's fault. Not Bush, not Cheney, not Rummy, not Contradicta. Not their fault.

Not Wolfowitz, not Perle, not Ashcroft. Not their fault.

Not Daschle, not Gephardt. Not Kerry or all the other Democrats who subsequently fell in line and voted for the USA PATRIOT Act and the Iraq War Resolution and the giant transfer of wealth to the wealthy. I'm sure Gore and Lieberman would have handled the Republican Congress just fine.

Certainly not Al Gore himself. Not Joe Lieberman. They won the election.

So it's also not Fat Tony Scalia's fault. Not the fascist Rehnquist's fault. Not Clarence Thomas. No sir. Not James Baker III, either.

Not CNN, not Fox News, not the New York Times. Not NBC's fault. Nope, no way.

Not Katherine Harris, not Jeb Bush, not Clayton Roberts. Blameless.

Instead, it's Danny Glover's fault. It's Jim Hightower's fault. It's Winona LaDuke's fault.

Yes, Ralph Nader and Winona LaDuke are to blame. How dare they run for office on a progressive platform. How un-American. :eyes:

Why don't you target your anger at Bush and work to elect the one you think has the best chance to beat him?

[Ediacara]

24. It's not either/or, it's both

When Nader is bought and paid for by RNC doners, and refuses to limit his campaign to Dem strongholds (DC, NY, etc) or Dem impossibles (NE, OK, etc), it's aparent that his goal is to help Bush win.

You're right, Gore ran a crappy campaign, and you're right, Kerry isn't a saint. But if you think for one minute I'll vote for someone who runs ONLY because he has a huge ego, and REFUSES to work within the process, then I've got a bridge you might be interested in buying...

[Old and In the Way]

21. The fight against Bush is being waged on 2 fronts.

Direct from the RNC and a rear guard action that uses the far left to drain votes from our candidate. We know the RNC and their agenda is easy to confront. The most dangerous one is at our rear where Nader votes would be a hit on Kerry directly. That 3-4% can spell the difference between winning and losing in 2004.

[stevedeshazer]

23. Sure, I'll grant you that

I'm a former Nader voter who sees that very thing. I know a lot of people who voted for Ralph in 2000. Not one of them I know is voting for him again.

I just get pretty frustrated when posters attribute everything wrong in the world to Nader. It is a silly point of view.

[ladjf]

30. The 2000 outcome was the result of several things.

The confusing thing about blaming the election outcome on Nader, or the SCOT US, Florida officials, is that with the votes so evenly divided at the end, any one of the above mentioned factors, as well as many other things, could have been enough to have decided the outcome. When viewed in that light, yes, one could correctly say that had Nader not been running, Gore would have been installed in the Presidency. The Republicans, of course, have their (weak) list of factors that they claim were unfair to the them.

On balance, the 2000 election was a scary and horrible experience for America. The outcome has proved to be an unmitigated disaster for the U.S. and much of the world. Somehow, America has got to figure out how to rid themselves of this current scourge. Nader needs to be recognized for what he most definitely is, A SHILL for the Republican Party.

[goforit]

31. Nadar? We all need to put parties aside and boot these thugs out

of office!!!!!

It's gonna have to be total unity on one mission!!!!

[AndyTiedye]

35. Nader Really Has to Stay off the Ballot

Otherwise the machinez will throw Dem votes to Nader
where they can't throw them to Bush* and be believed.

Just as Bush*'s poll numbers really started to go south,
here comes Nader to the rescue!:cry:

[John_H]

36. Liar. Just like micheal moore said on AA.

Told his supporters he'd pull out of swing states. Lied.


His top ten donors are GOP. Why?

[bobbyboucher]

38. More pink tutu Dem whining.

The Democrats are to blame for not getting enough votes, not Nader. He got the votes he got because people agree with what he says. Maybe you wouldn't be in such a panic about Nader running if perhaps you took on the role of opposition party for once, instead of door man.

I repeat for all you hysterical, whining , pink tutu wearing dems, get a message and promote policies that attract enough voters for you to win! If your policies and agenda don't attract enough voters, then tough shit. What is so goddamn hard to understand about that?

Otherwise, quit your cry-babying, it's embarrasing.

[SemperEadem]

39. can the same be done for any candidate which has left the race?

Can Wes Clark be written in the same way? Dean? Kucinich?

IF that's the case, I'd rather see one of the upper 3 written in instead.

[Triana]

42. I don't think Nader is going to...

...bite the hand that's feeding him (the GOP). He lied in 2000 when he said he'd pull out in close states. He didn't listen when the majority of us (everyone) told him NOT to run in 2004.

We can't afford this jerk gumming up THIS (s)election, too. I don't give a rat's behind what he says - he's an arrogant, self-interested liar and we have ENOUGH of those in Washington already. Who needs him?