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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:10 PM
Original message
Obama: TSA pat-downs frustrating but necessary
Source: msnbc.com news services

President says enhanced airport security measures necessary to guard against new terrorist techniques

msnbc.com staff and news service reports
2010-11-20T19:50:08


LISBON, Portugal President Barack Obama on Saturday acknowledged some travelers' "frustrations" with having to go through full-body pat-downs and scans at airports, but he said the enhanced security measures are necessary to keep America safe.

In response to a question at a press conference in Lisbon, where he was attending a NATO summit , the president said that the Transportation Security Administration has been "under enormous pressure" to find better ways to screen for explosives and other dangerous items ever since the attempted 2009 Christmas Day bombing of a U.S. airliner over Detroit. In that case, a passenger with links to an al-Qaida extremist group tried to set off plastic explosives concealed in his underwear.

"I understand peoples frustrations, and what Ive said to the TSA is that you have to constantly refine and measure whether what were doing is the only way to assure the American peoples safety. And you also have to think through are there other ways of doing it that are less intrusive," Obama said.

"But at this point, TSA in consultation with counterterrorism experts have indicated to me that the procedures that they have been putting in place are the only ones right now that they consider to be effective against the kind of threat that we saw in the Christmas Day bombing."

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40289750/ns/travel /
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Obama Says Understands Ire Over Airport Screenings
LISBON, Portugal November 20, 2010, 03:39 pm ET

President Barack Obama has asked security officials whether there's a less intrusive way to screen U.S. airline passengers than the pat-downs and body scans causing a holiday-season uproar.

For now, they've told him there isn't one, the president said Saturday in response to a question at the NATO summit in Lisbon.

"I understand people's frustrations," Obama said, while acknowledging that he's never had to undergo the stepped-up screening methods.

Passengers at some U.S. airports must pass through full-body scanners that produce a virtually naked image. If travelers refuse, they can be forced to undergo time-consuming fingertip examinations, including of clothed genital areas and breasts, by inspectors of the same sex as the passenger ...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=13...
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. How can he possibly understand it considering he and his
wife and daughters don't have to go through it?
Firs he, with his wife and daughters should go through airport security, be patted down and scanned, and then he should talk on how he understands it.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Could not agree more
And no one is going to grope his 'junk'. It's good enough for the little guy, though.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
103. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. Then he will be willing to set an example as a leader and
subject his wife and daughters and himself, to these abusive practices. He gets further and further away from the people every time he speaks on issues that are important to the people.

I know what is good for me and my family. A politician who is protected from these abuses cannot and does not speak for me. And to think I once thought he did.

Michael Chertoff thanks him for his free ad for his disgusting product.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
175. No he won't set an example
And he's not a leader either. A leader fights, he doesn't fight, he talks, and while he's talking the Repukes gut punch him.

And instead of saying enough is enough, he starts to talk again and again gets gut punched.

The man fits that definiton of insanity, keeps doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #175
200. Well said...
He's the worst Democratic president in history, IMO; just a slightly lighter version of Bush. He's completely aligned with wealth, power, and authority, and could give a flying fuck about the rest of us. He should just switch parties and be done with it.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #200
220. He's not showing to be that great a leader,
but the worst Democratic President in history? Hardly. He doesn't govern in the way you and I might like, but then I'm guessing he has to think about all of the black Presidents who will or will not come after him if he makes a misstep. I think he's timid and he runs his administration the way Clinton did. For goodness sake, he saved the auto industry and kept us out of the second Great Depression (well, that's still to see, but were it not for the too small stimulus he provided, we would be in the middle of it right now). He is a good man and possibly a great man but then so is President Carter and he was just as reviled during his tenure. Some people just aren't meant for the Presidency and he just may be one of those. But worst? Not even close.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #220
238. thank you
i agree with you. that comment was over the top imo
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #238
247. Your delicate sensibilites have been offended...
...while you stand by idly defending those who are stripping away your civil liberties. The wimpiness demonstrated by some on this board is appalling.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #247
248. i have not
defended anybody who's stripping me of my civil liberties. you read me wrong. goodgawd.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #220
246. The wimpiness demonstrated on this board is appalling...
If this was the 1770s, a good portion of DU would be defending King George and opposing the founders. You will sacrifice your civil liberties without a whimper while defending those who strip your rights away. Disgusting.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #175
258. Yes, I cannot disagree with you, sadly n/t
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CubicleGuy Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
53. Don't fly again...
... until this nonsense stops. If an airline or two has to go under, then I guess that's the price the administration is willing to pay.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #53
239. it's so easy to say that
but my son and grandchildren live on the other side of the country. i'm not going to forego seeing them until who knows when - when i'm dead? i just cannot boycott flying. it's a bad policy and should be rescinded asap.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:53 PM
Original message
Obviously, neither his wife nor his daughters ....
will be subjected to anything like this!

What Obama is actually saying is, "I can't hear you -- too bad!"

"The Gulf will bounce back!"

:eyes:

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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
106. Correct.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
231. Bingo
You can do this all day:

"I understand the education system is broken. But, Sasha and Malia will continue to attend private school, so I don't really care."
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bluedigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. There will be no rolling back of the intrusive police state this week.
x(
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
70. regardless of the party in charge...
once the government gets a power, they NEVER give it back.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. We are well-beyond "frustrating" Mr. Obama.
frustrating is a long line at the supermarket. This is an outrage.
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tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I honestly don't get the outrage
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Good God....
Like a "good German", eh?
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tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. No, like you complain about the underwear bomber....
AND you complain when people touch your underwear.

Airline travel is consumerism - and consumerism is the only area of life where EVERYONE in this country gets OUTRAGED!!!!

Should TSA also implement profiling of ALL passengers and have people interrogate you? Probably.

But then we'd hear "This TSA agent asked me PERSONAL QUESTIONS! It's an OUTRAGE!!!"

But if anyone touches your privates to check for a bomb they are a GOOD GERMAN (or Nazi appeaser?) No.

You have to make up your mind - stop underwear bombers or no touchee the private parts. Choose.


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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. So many fools believe everything they are "told."
Educate yourself. There is no evidence that this is effective in preventing such actions.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
108. In fact, to the contrary, there is evidence it is unnecessary .... for one, Israel
does it much better -- without all the hand jive --

KO covered that last night if I recall correctly --

It's all farce and I I think the public needs to set their BS meters waaay higher!


:)
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #108
140. That is right.
How some supposed progressives can buy this bullshit propaganda promoted by Chertoff and others who stand to profit off driving Americans to the radiation emitting nude scanners or be sexually assaulted in pubic view in many cases, is beyond me.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #140
153. It's another step in the wrong direction for us ... but in the "right" direction for them....
creating yet more obedience to nonsense --

Great concerns re this Patriot Act and Homeland Security -- very NAZI like stuff!



"If they can make you believe absurdities, they can make you commit atrocities" --

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #108
182. An American version of the Israeli system would also generate a large number of complaints
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 08:52 PM by struggle4progress
The Israelis profile, but you'll get a more rigorous exam if you meet a profile. And everybody gets interviewed multiple times and run through a database

Israel is a small country. The US is a very large country. The multiple interviews would be very time-consuming here. People would kick and scream about the profiling and databases. Everyone who seems "strange" or "nervous" would probably still get patted down
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sally cat Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. "Should TSA also implement profiling of ALL passengers" Not racial profiling, but some system like
the Israeli methods which are effective.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. TSA should be disbanded, along with the whole police state
put in place by the former administration made up of war criminals.

There are no 'underwear' bombers. The last one was reported by his own father and allowed by TSA, that same org. you have so much faith in, to get on a plane. Have you asked yourself why?

Do you know what the chances of dying by terrorist are compared to the chances of say, dying for lack of Health Insurance?

What would be willing to give up to feel 100% safe? How about curfews so that Americans are not out at night where they are more likely to be shot or raped or robbed? Should we save lives by keeping people at home, where they are safer? Where is the line you would draw where trying to stay safe no longer trumps living in a free society? You do know that being free does hold some risks, or maybe you didn't ... :eyes:
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tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
63. Is that your real solution??
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 05:32 PM by tomhayes
I agree that even with these methods we will not be 100% safe. But America DEMANDS this: That we make everything 100% safe AND THAT we don't not make any consumer activity inconvenient.

That's why I said you have to CHOOSE. American's want it both ways. No pat downs AND a shoe bomber or underwear bomber strikes you'll complain about that too.

In the meantime people are yelling POLICE STATE!!! POLICE STATE!!! When this is NOT. This requires you to have someone pat you down and make sure they do not feel a bomb on you. You DO have a choice - the choice is to not fly. (That's very inconvenient.)

Now, people in America (or the portion that votes) don't really seem to care when Florida disenfranchises the poor or the black from voting by purging the voting roles and then not having a system where you can appeal it before election day.

Americans don't really seem to care when someone dies of a preventable or treatable disease because they are uninsured or underinsured.

America by and large didn't care when we invaded IRAQ for no real reason.

But tell Americans that they'll have to make sure you aren't hiding a bomb next to your genitals by touching you - then the LEFT, the right, the center, the nuts, and the sane all yell police state!!!!!

Boycott air travel and take the train, or the bus. Or fly and go through the scanner. And maybe get a random pat down. Or then - if you're suspicious in ANY WAY (like nervous, or combative, or NOT WHITE) get the cavity search they are allowed to give you. (The difference here is that EVERYONE has the search rules applied to them - not just the poor or the non-white.)

But it saddens me that Americans are so passionate about this minor issue (yes you cancer survivors and rape victims this is MINOR compared to what you have gone through) and yet so callously unaware of just how full of malice America is on some of the other issues I mentioned here.

There are more important fights to fight - fights that you are not fighting now.


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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #63
74. over or under the underwear?
where do you draw the line? Already one woman said the TSA agent went inside the waistband of her underwear and felt her vulva.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #63
75. You will next demand that everytime uses their car or truck that it has to be inspected for bombs.
Why aren't metro bus / metro rail passengers inspected?
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tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #75
111. They do inspect for bombs under cars
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 06:34 PM by tomhayes
But not for EVERYBODY and not everywhere.

When you enter the country they do. (From Canada or Mexico.) If you drive onto a military base they do. Right after 9/11 they did at certain airports. I'm fairly certain they shut down streets and inspect cars near the white house from time to time.

They are tying the policies of invasive searches to places they think are targets for terrorism - and right now I think that everyone can agree that airline travel is a target.

Could a terrorist blow up a building in Nebraska? Sure, that could be a target - but more likely targets are airports, or Times Square, or Washington DC.

Can we stop every terrorist plot if the terrorist are determined to hit? Probably not.

But since there HAS BEEN a terrorist with explosives in their shoes AND there has been a terrorist with explosives in his underwear they are making you take your shoes off and have you underwear and body searched for bombs.

Will that stop all future terrorism? No.

But if they stop the searches and then someone blows up an airplane with an underwear bomb this country will turn their position on a dime.

I really think people are upset over THIS issue because it affects them in a more direct way. (Kinda like meat eaters would get squeamish if you made them butcher (or watch someone else) butcher a live cow before they could eat a steak.)

Maybe the public outrage will stop this practice and we can go back to being just the country without healthcare, or a safety net, or good education for most of our citizens.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #63
113. Only those still trying to push the idea of 9/11 and the farce surrounding it ....
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 06:40 PM by defendandprotect
are still pushing for garbage like this -- it's profitable !!

It creates more of a police state -- a more compliable public --

America is NOT demanding anything like this --

And you're creating false extremes as "choices" -- there are many other ways to do this --

without disrupting the public to this extent -- even if we believed all the garbage about

shoe/underwear bombers! :rofl:

See KO's report, btw, from last night on the way Israel does this --



In the meantime people are yelling POLICE STATE!!! POLICE STATE!!! When this is NOT. This requires you to have someone pat you down and make sure they do not feel a bomb on you. You DO have a choice - the choice is to not fly. (That's very inconvenient.)

And this is a sure example of thinking which will create a police state -- you're pretty much

begging for it! A woman the other day reported that she was surprised that the "patter" touched

her vagina THROUGH HER UNDERWEAR! You think he/she was still expecting to find a bomb?

Oh -- wait -- you know the problem ... we don't yet have full body cavity searches!!

:eyes:

When it comes to voting and computers, it isn't the public which doesn't care -- it is

our representatives who don't care -- our government, our president! Nor our MSM!

That Greg Palast story was offered to our "free press" 8 months BEFORE the election so that

something could be done about it. No takers!


50 million Americans are uninsured and you suggest "they don't care"????

It is Obama who doesn't care -- and who made back room deals with both Big Pharma and

the private HC industry to keep single payer off the table and to guarnatee there would be

no Medicare negotiation on drug prices!

We also had the largest anti-war movement yet in regard to Afghanistan and Iraq -- still is.

Largely ignored by MSM and this president --

Recall Pelosi morning after '06 elections ... on video ...

"Democrats were elected to end the war!"

Again, no Americans are crying out for this kind of insanity -- it's being provided by those

who profit from "security" issues --


But it saddens me that Americans are so passionate about this minor issue (yes you cancer survivors and rape victims this is MINOR compared to what you have gone through) and yet so callously unaware of just how full of malice America is on some of the other issues I mentioned here.

There are more important fights to fight - fights that you are not fighting now.


And, I don't think YOU get to tell cancer or rape survivors what is "minor" in compared to anything

they've been through -- they get to tell us what's important to them.

All we have to do is listen!





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catrose Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #63
120. Do you understand
that for sexual abuse survivors, being groped by "authority figures" triggers flashbacks?

We've tried to teach our children the difference between "good" touching and "bad" touching and how it's okay to say no to bad touching, no matter who's doing it. Except for total strangers at the airport? The 3-year-old's "Please stop touching me" will stay with me forever.

No way I'm subjecting myself or a child to presidentially approved abuse. I'm surprised and disappointed that a man with daughters would sanction it.
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james0tucson Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #120
144. What is the defense?
>The 3-year-old's "Please stop touching me" will stay with me forever.

I've asked and nobody has even tried to answer this question:

What is the specific wording in law that would provide this individual a defense against a criminal charge of sexual assault of a child? The child cannot consent, and the parent cannot consent on the child's behalf. If there is a specific law that protects the screener, how is it tailored to that precise scenario? And how does that law supersede a state law that makes that specific action a crime?

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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #63
131. You would have made a "Good German".
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #63
185. The most important fight to fight is to preserve freedom and to fight
hard against totalitarianism before it becomes so entrenched it cannot be fought anymore.

What you are missing is the reason WHY this 'minor issue' as you call giving up all of our rights, is so important across political lines.

According to this government, the reason terrorists attacked this country is because they 'hated our freedoms'. Really? So, the answer to that is to do exactly what they wanted, but could never have achieved on their own. The terrorists have won.

While you may be the sort of person to throw up your hands in defeat and hand over your rights because you are scared of a .00006% threat of harm coming to you, apparently, and thankfully, your fellow citizens have finally had enough of the very profitable scam perpetrated upon them by the 'terra profiteers' who will use 9/11 to enrich themselves and remove all of our rights, until we finally say 'ENOUGH'.

You want to know my solution? Stop invading their countries, killing and torturing their citizens, stealing their resources and building military bases while setting up puppet governments on their territory.

We can't bring back their dead loved ones, but we can try to make reparations for the harm we have done, and send a message to the world, that while our criminal government has wronged them, we the people will no longer tolerate those abuses. The few extremists that exist in every nation, will be marginalized once these wrongs have been addressed and assurances given that we will prosecute the criminals who led these illegal invasions by lying.

Treating every American citizen like a convicted criminal will not only NOT make anyone safe, it glorifies the extremists and gives them powers they do not really possess.

All the rest, from the anti-Constitutional Patriot Act to the current, disgusting, demeaning, Orwellian excuse for 'security', is nothing but nonsense. If this government cared about the lives of the American people. they would stop doing things that put them in danger.

This is one of the most important issues of our times, and I am very happy to see that people all over the political map, now agree.



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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #63
208. haven't been around here very long, have you Mr. Hayes?
Now, people in America (or the portion that votes) don't really seem to care when Florida disenfranchises the poor or the black from voting by purging the voting roles and then not having a system where you can appeal it before election day.




Americans don't really seem to care when someone dies of a preventable or treatable disease because they are uninsured or underinsured.






America by and large didn't care when we invaded IRAQ for no real reason.







Cher
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
73. put in place by the former administration...
and given increased power under the current.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #73
136. Cowardly Fucks giving in to Criminals
Yes Osama HAS WON

AND BY THE WAY ????

WHERE IS HE ?????
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #136
145. Politicians do not care...
that we have to go through this humiliation- none of them will ever experience it.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #145
155. My daughter saw a women in a clerical collar getting a good groping from a
Brunhilde type on a business trip. She wasn't groped the Nazi THUGS were apparently too busy going after some 70 year old grand mother types TO BOTHER WITH HER.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #136
187. Well, if they were to tell us that, and we KNOW they have located
him several times as the Wikileaks leaked documents attest to, the terror gravy train would be over. They need a boogie man to be able to keep scamming the public.

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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
81. I couldn't agree with you more. n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #36
109. Agree whole heartedly -- !!!
What farce ... and as for the :rofl: shoe bomber I think everyone needs their

BS meters set waaaay higher --

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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
186. I'm in total agreement with you
We had procedures in place after 9/11 that were perfectly adequate to prevent any more losses of aircraft, and produced no lack of safety for people on the ground.

If this isn't the tipping point, will full body cavity searches be what the sheep need to stop flying?
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Gin Blossom Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
39. I'll take my chances with the hordes of underwear bombers, thanks.
Every time I start driving my car, I risk having a fatal accident. Who knows, the driver next to me might detonate explosives in his underpants. I think it would really protect American lives if we all had to travel naked, period. Sure it might be inconvenient, but think of how it would make us safer!

Geez. To mangle Franklin's quote, "Those who desire both safety and freedom deserve neither."
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IScreamSundays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
43. What happens when someone "allegedly" keisters something??
Are you down with cavity searches? It is all bull puckey designed to get the public used to tyranny and the police state. Got smelling salts?
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
54. I choose, "no touchee the private parts." nt
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
72. this country was founded...
on the basis of liberty- NOT safety. I will take my chances on encountering an underwear bomber. I would rather be dead than live in a police state. I refuse to live scared.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #72
164. This one issue will doom Obama
People don't like to have their Penises and Vaginas groped
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #164
170. afraid you may be right...
but it can be pinned on no one else.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #170
172. Anyone who has had their Vagina groped will remember him
and his Brain Dead side kick Napolitano ---err Brunhilde the Concentration Camp Matron
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #172
213. vulva, dear sir...
and the ones who have had their penises groped won't be any happier.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #213
225. Ah yes VULVA---I stand corrected
Maybe certain people like their GENITALS handled by others

As a parent I would never FLY again or vote for the Idiot LIKE Napolitano's boss who thought it was a GOOD IDEA to let some Drooling Knuckle Dragging Retarded Cretin

Handle my five year old sons PENIS and ANUS or my eleven year old Daughters VULVA or feel her BREASTS

Apparently Obama NOW FEELS this behavior is no only a good idea, but necessary to protect amerika from religious nut jobs who live in thirty dollar mud huts
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #225
245. very few who make it to DC...
are worth a damn. They live in an insulated bubble and have no idea what goes on in the real world. And, as long as they are enjoying the fruits of power, they have no care about us.
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de novo Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
80. And when the next failed terrorist tries with bomb up his ass, we'll all
need to get cavity searches, right?
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #80
102. Bring in ob/gyns and
women can get free pap tests!!! I heard that on 'The Ed Show' last night.

This whole TSA is just another load of crap. 'KEEP FEAR ALIVE!'
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #80
115. Can see W sitting somewhere laughing his ass off .... while America rips itself apart ... !!!
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 06:45 PM by defendandprotect
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
107. Agree, at this level it becomes blind obedience ... unquestioning --
What a farce --- we have Global Warming about to turn the planet to toast --

We have two "perpetual" wars having bankrupted our Treasury over more than 10 years!

We have more than 22 million unemployed and long term unemployed with no job creation

in sight -- and our safety nets still being dismantled --

Obama just "back-room dealed" us out of MEDICARE FOR ALL in promising Big Pharma there

would be no negotiation by Medicare on drugs -- and promised the private health cae

industry there would be no single payer --

We've just had one of the biggest financial coups ever pulled off by corrupt government,

capitalism and the FED in the "bail outs" --

We had a stimulus which directed billions to corporations --

We have a president who pretty much pulled a "Katrina" in the Gulf to save BP from itself

and oil for the MIC/national security -- and who says "The Gulf will bounce back!" --

We have a president who is still trying to push new trade deals -- one with South Korea

details of which are "private" -- and they don't want our cars because it violates their

safety and environmental laws --

on and on -- and you think Bin Laden is coming back -- ?

Evidently the American public is starting to realize someone is pulling their leg --








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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
159. Bullshit...
Every expert who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about has agreed that this bullshit is neither necessary nor does it work...

The "evil doers(tm)" will just find another way to get a bomb aboard an airplane...

Like how about in that 80% of cargo that's not screened, eh?

Underwear Bombers or Porno Grope are NOT the only two choices...! :eyes:
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
217. and then some people really get off on shit like this.
subjecting others to sexual humiliation,
reading about it,
thinking about it.
defending it.
right?
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
201. +1...
The wimpy attitudes displayed here regarding freedom and civil liberties is just astounding sometimes. The poster you responded to clearly doesn't get it, and his failure to understand what's at stake is more frightening that the threat of any terrorist, IMO.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Unfreaking believable.
:banghead:
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Aaria Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
65. Knowledge is power. The reason for all of it is BS.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #65
114. It is total bs. It total disaster capitalism. Our 4th Amendment rights are being shred.
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 06:42 PM by avaistheone1
I am totally appalled and enraged. This crap has got to stop now. Enough!!!!!!!!!
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
48. Have you ever been a 13 year old girl
on her period? Or a survivor of childhood sex abuse? Or a person with abnormal anatomy? We aren't all the same. Just because some others feel good walking around half-naked doesn't mean we all think it's appropriate for ourselves. The outrage is realizing how TRAUMATIZED this will make many other human beings feel.
Not to mention the whole liberty or death thing, but that's too passe.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #48
66. Part of the issue of "traumatization" is society's unhealthy perception of nudity and nakedness.
(Note that those are overlapping, but not identical terms.)

Secondly, we should do away with all but baggage/cargo screening, and simply restore Second Amendment Civil Rights in airports and on planes.

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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #66
84. Ah libertarians...
... there is nothing that can't be fixed with enough guns and a large enough dose of not giving a flying fuck...
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #84
147. "...not giving a flying fuck..." about what, exactly?
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 07:26 PM by PavePusher
You have better ideas? Please, present them.


P.S. Assuming personnal responsibility for my security is hardly an idea reserved to libertarians. What an odd concept.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #66
130. But the trauma is real, damaging, and can be life-destroying,
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #48
228. Children's GENITALS BEING VIOLATED--- by Pedophile THUGS
Maybe certain people like their GENITALS handled by others

As a parent I would never FLY again or vote for the Idiot LIKE Napolitano's boss who thought it was a GOOD IDEA to let some Drooling Knuckle Dragging Retarded Cretin

Handle my five year old sons PENIS and ANUS or my eleven year old Daughters VULVA or feel her BREASTS

Apparently Obama NOW FEELS this behavior is no only a good idea, but necessary to protect amerika from religious nut jobs who live in thirty dollar mud huts
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
50. You use the Dead Kennedys to push your police state hard on?
Heres one you may want to listen to also. I recommend "The Lighter Side of Global Terrorism.





Double Facepalm.
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. great album
favorite track has to be enchanted thoughtfist.
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tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #50
156. So they finally went too far for you?
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 07:47 PM by tomhayes
Touching your junk at the airport is this:


or this:


But the Iraq war, the purging of voter roles, the lack of health care, the elimination of jobless benefits, and the elimination of welfare weren't the thing got you angry enough to act??

Next you'll push tort reform to eliminate the deficit.....
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #156
177. Yeah, this is it. I just showed up.
I'v been fighting these worthless shitbags and their fascist agenda for a while. But if you feel fine with it I'm sure they'll make you someone special in their new world image. Have fun at the next meeting.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
59. It's just human nature to dislike this level of intrusion
1 - People don't trust scanning machines, even if the radiation is purported to be safe.

2 - People don't like to have their personal space invaded at the best of times. More so, when that includes areas on or near the sexual organs. This is especially true for the practice of patting down children.

3 - People take umbrage at the routine implication that they are traitors and criminals.

4 - People can't help but feel that their rights are being violated, since they were told for decades that this sort of treatment was the hallmark of a police state.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #59
117. My daughter just ....
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 06:47 PM by AnneD
went through this procedure 4 times and will go through it 2 more time before the week is over.

She is 20yo and has traveled all over the world. I asked her about it and she went ballistic. She said that if a guy did that to her she would have slapped them. She said they actually went up her vulva. She instinctively jumped back. She went through a wind tunnel and had to be pat down again because the saw something suspicious. The threat...a scrunchy no metal in it. She said she felt like she was being felt up with too much gusto.

We have been screened in other countries and the USA is the worst.

Obama is talking horse shit. Let his daughters get felt up and then come back and tell me the same shit.


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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #117
171. This political paranoia that scanners represent has gone too far
And I personally believe the scanners will eventually be shown to have some health risk.

There really does seem to be a psycho-sexual element to authoritarianism. I suppose forcing others to go nude and/or be sexually touched against their will is the ultimate expression of political power and dominance.

It's as old as history. I believe the Romans did this to criminals and vanquished enemies. The Christians stripped Hypatia before killing her. Nazis, nudity and concentration camps as also come to mind.

Forcing people to strip is the ultimate expression of control. Naked scanners are a subdued expression of this, but the message is there.

Sorry to hear about your daughter's experience.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
83. There are many things you don't seem to get...
... like the meaning of that DK cover for example.

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MsPithy Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
95. I got yer outrage, right here!
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Sound the least bit familiar?
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MsPithy Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. Don't feel bad if you don't recognize the words in my previous comment,
President Obama does not recognize them either.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
128. Why don't you post a naked picture of yourself?
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Blandocyte Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
179. Maybe something to do with being treated like a criminal
without any cause to be treated in such a way? Stripped down by electronix or patted down by a TSA Tard for no reason other than you want to have a plane ride. We are Americans. We will not be treated this way.
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tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #179
203. This is the real answer ^^^
"Maybe something to do with being treated like a criminal without any cause to be treated in such a way? Stripped down by electronix or patted down by a TSA Tard for no reason other than you want to have a plane ride. We are Americans. We will not be treated this way."

But Gitmo is still open. We're still in Iraq. People are dying from lack of healthcare. Texas school boards are rewriting history. Women aren't entitled to equal pay. The poor are getting poorer. the environment is being destroyed. The death penalty is being carried out.

But "treat someone like a criminal" is the tipping point. DU's "Latest breaking News" hasn't been this monolithic since they tassered someone on TV.

And by treat you like a criminal it means patting YOU down to check for bombs. Or seeing your body in an x-ray machine where the outlines of your "naughty bits" are visible. That's the limit - when FINGERTIPS actually touch YOUR BODY or someone sees the outline of your pecker. (And when the TSA does it it's like PORN for them. And they RELISH GROPING you!.)

Everything else is just academic I guess. (Like Cheney supporting some LGBT rights because he has a lesbian daughter. It actually affected him.)


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Blandocyte Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #203
229. So we should wait for Gitmo to close up before taking on
any other issue? I don't agree. There's plenty of commentary on the other issues you mentioned, but probably not in this thread that is about TSA patdowns and pornoscanners.

These TSA procedures seem to be on shaky ground, constitutionally. Just saying. I'm sure you'll find plenty of comments, in relevant threads, on the other issues you mentioned.
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tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #229
243. There's not an ORDER - but the level of OUTRAGE on this is amazing
Warrantless wiretapping? War in Iraq? Water-boarding? Economic policies that make the poor much poorer. Inadequate healthcare. Poor education. A FOR-PROFIT correctional system. Expiring nuclear treaties.

Sure these get talked about here.

But TSA GENITAL GROPING RAPISTS!!! and TASER CRAZY POLICE SHOCKED AN OLD LADY!!!!!!!! are the ONLY two issues that have dominated this forum like this.

And BOTH are minor compared to long-term effects on this countries' future that I listed.

Most of the TSA threads START by calling the TSA a part of a POLICE STATE and within 10 posts are comparing the plight of travelers to that of Jews in Nazi Germany. Isn't this a TAD hyperbolic?

The excess OUTRAGE shows what I feared - that we American's ONLY REALLY care about things that directly impact us in a way that touches our body or hurts people we DIRECTLY know.


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. And even money, this gets deleted.
Flying on Air Force One means never having to endure a "patdown".
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
38. Hell, I was right!!
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. I pulled a Cheney and basically told the Prez to go fornicate himself
That's what got deleted. How disrespectful!! How about respecting our civil liberties Mr. President?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think the only answer is a boycott of air travel...
It seems only corporate America has any influence on this or previous administrations. If the airlines are failing, there WILL be action.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. True, but the action would probably be a bailout n/t
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. agreed.
Right now the Holiday season is coming up. If people boycotted now, and the airports are empty or fairly empty by then they WOULD GET THE DAMN MESSAGE.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
57. I read an article that said that although travel is up 11% over last year
this Thanksgiving, an unrecedented 94% of travelers are choosing to drive. The article said it was ebcause of convenience and lower gas prices, but I bet a lot of it is actually because people are not willing to go through these scanners or gropings.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #57
119. I drive. LA to Portland? No problem. LA to Orlando takes longer.
Guess I won't be going to Orlando any time soon.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #119
137. I live in Kansas. My daughter lives in Orlando, my son in Arlington, Virginia.
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 07:06 PM by tblue37
Last December my daughter and I flew into Washington, D.C., to spend a long weekend with my son. In July I flew to Houston because my daughter was spending a month near there and staying with my brother. Then in August, my son and I flew to Orlando to visit my daughter and her husband.

We agreed last December that we would all three try to get together at least once every year, because at age 60, I can't be sure how many more years I have.

But now I think my flying days may be over. I cheerfully made three trips by plane in the last 11 months, but I can't imagine flying anywhere now!
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #57
133. I meant "unprecedented," of course. I missed the editing window.
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 07:01 PM by tblue37
Why does DU have such a short editing window? No other site I post on does, but on DU, when I notice too late that I have a typo, I can't fix it!
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
210. I'm not flying anywhere until they stop this groping and radiation crap.
I wonder what the procedures are on trains. Anyway despite my SIL in Florida I am NOT flying.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. Obey
or ELSE.





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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. Wow, another public relations coup for the President.
Getting reelected is frustrating, but some may feel it necessary to vote for someone else. Maybe it's time to stop giving them more and more reasons to do that.

Republicans are crazy, Democrats are clueless.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I almost think his advisers are sabotaging him
Could they possibly be this clueless? :mad:
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. The buck has to stop somewhere and it's not with advisors.
If this kind of blockhead thinking continues I can really see Democrats cooperating in cutting Social Security or raising the retirement age and taking the hit for doing it. Given the state of the Republican party why do Democrats seem to think that now is the time to be idiots, particularly the Democrat where the buck should stop.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
100. I thought that was their
plan all along. 'Austerity' cuts are right around the corner....just what they've (TPTB) wanted. I believe the prez just takes orders.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #100
174. Unfortunately, maybe every prez just takes orders nowdays. n/t
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #174
204. Until....they tell the TRUTH about it.
Dumb fucks.

The pimple is about to pop.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Sorry, not buying the 'his advisors' excuse
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 04:09 PM by MissDeeds
He is the president, he has more power and control than any advisors. This is on him.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Agree it is "on him." But, I still wonder why no one around him...
is seemingly "advising" him,,,
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
77. is he not responsible for anything?
the "adviser" bullshit didn't work for Bush, why should it work for Obama. He is either fucking up or complicit.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #77
139. Why not try just for once actually reading my posts?
Post #31: Agree it is "on him." But, I still wonder why no one around him... is seemingly "advising" him,,,
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #139
143. Because they are all in it together...
the people in DC do not live in the real world. They are pampered and fawned over 24/7. They serve their true masters, and get rewarded accordingly.
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. I think the Democratic leadership would rather see the Republicans win...
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 05:02 PM by Larry Ogg
They certainly go along with the fraud that is bankrupting this country; morally and financially.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
118. Reluctant to say this as I imagine others are .... but has long seemed to be true ....
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 06:48 PM by defendandprotect
even when the Dems win somehow they turn it into a loss --

this has been going on for decades ---

Sen. George Mitchell with a Dem majority just simply turned the Senate over

to Sen. Bob Dole!! Remember watching that!! Quite clear at the time!!

And quite clear since --

SADLY --- very sadly so --

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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #118
192. And other consistencies such as not prosecuting above the law criminal politicians
or overturning legalized crime or restoring the Constitution. And when they loose the support of progressives and liberals and get voted out of office for pandering to the Republican Party, its like they adopt a strategy of making complicity look like 'battered party syndrome'? Those bad republicans kicked our asses and wouldn't let us do what was right.

So now we're supposed to vote them back in to the majority in two years so as the psychotic republicans can kick their asses into complicity again.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #192
195. Obama/Holder might as well not even have had a DOJ for all that didn't go on ... they
haven't even defended former Gov. Don Siegelmann -- and no one could have

more clearly been framed!

You would think that at the least they would recognize and react to the threat

this is to other Democratic politicians -- Governors, Mayors, etal -- Congress

people -- and to democracy. But again -- zip!

No Habeas Corpus -- and Patriot Act still with us and all of this hides behind

the two "perpetual" wars Bush gave us and which the Dems have continued to refinance

since '06!

Re 2012 - I'm amazed that no liberals have risen up to challenge Obama -- can't even

imagine two more years of this! And all of this huge disappointment and pain and

suffering for so many and Obama tops off the Election day results by saying he's

ready to compromise with GOP some more!!!

We need a big new Plan B for 2012!!! --


:)

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Still a Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. Would he consent to Michelle and their duaghters being patted down?
It's a fair question.
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williesgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
35. I'm surprised no one's asked him that yet. If he keeps this shit up,he'll find out in Jan 2013
when they travel just like the rest of us. We'll see how necessary he thinks it is then. NO ONE is going to molest me or my daughter, even if it means we never fly again. And I'd feel the same way about this if my husband were still alive and if I'd had a son - no one would molest them either.

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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
129. He's Ruling Class now. He'll never fly commercial again.
There will always be someone eager to give him a lift on a private plane.
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
91. Yep, first thing that came to my mind.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
232. No
the royal court must'nt be bothered with the rules for the commoners.
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redirish28 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. So I guess he is in favor of Bush Policies. Thought he promised this was
going to changed.



"With Great Power comes Great Responsiblity". Those words by Stan Lee should be Carved in the wall of the oval office Supreme Court and the Capitol where everyone can see.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
78. it changed, alright...
just not the way we hoped it would.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. They are not neccessary and he doesn't understand them
he's clueless or a lying ass.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
37. I'm beginning to think
He's a little of both, a lier and clueless!!!
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
20. Wrong answer.
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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
21. Obama is stupid
He may be a smart man but this office has made him dumb. He seems to have no ability to think for himself or to do anything other than what his hand picked "experts" tell him.
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. Those who prefer security over liberty deserve neither. _ Benjamin Franklin
The most dangerous people on the planet are the conservatives that walk the halls of Congress... I think it would be much cheaper to question their sanity and stop acquiescing to the imagined and real evil that they themselves created and are responsible for. So maybe we should start electing liberals and progressives that haven't been brainwashed by the lies that empower predators...

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
121. A wonderful reminder .... and quite a bit of $$$$$ involved in this "security" ....ahem ...
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. So I guess Obama is back to being labeled a fascist on DU?
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 04:02 PM by stray cat
or just a clueless idiot or a sexual abuse enabler?
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
49. No... But he has swallowed to many of the conservative lies
and adopted their insane policies to perpetuate them. You don't have to be a fascist to be misled, but being to conservative guarantees that you're not part of the solution.

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jancantor Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #49
85. This is NOT a conservative program
Check the rightwing blogs. They are also outraged. It's a common ground issue. Frankly, it's statist and neither conservative nor liberal.
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #85
94. You are correct.
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sally cat Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #85
142. Might be the first thing in decades that both sides have agreed on.
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jancantor Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #142
149. I think there's LOTS of stuff we agree on , we just don't argue about it
As an extremely stupid example :) ... both sides agree that murder should be illegal .

The reality is that on the VAST majority of issues, we agree. It's just that we concentrate on the differences, not what seems self-evidence (we need laws against murder, stealing should be illegal, drunk driving should be illegal, jury trials are a good thing, etc. etc. etc.)

It creates the false impression that we agree on little, because we don't discuss the stuff we agree on. We discuss the stuff we DISagree on. Most people, right or left, want basically the same things out of life, and agree on most aspects of governance, etc.

Newspapers don't report "nothing happened on Smith Street today between 3 and 4 pm". They report "A man was killed on Jones St at 4:15 pm". Similarly, we don't sit here and wank over "should theft be illegal?". The issues we agree on are forgotten about because we crave the controversy, not the agreement
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #85
146. Your probably correct
We shouldn't confuse Conservative followers with their Neo-Conservative Nazi leaders, nor should we confuse Liberals with the Neo-Liberal enablers, because "Neo" is neither liberal nor conservative but rather a big psychopathic lie - empowered by Authoritarian followers - and in the service of the elite predator class, aka the biggest terrorist / fascist organization in the world, aka the New World Order.

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jancantor Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #146
151. We might want to be careful with such labels, considering Obama supports
this program. But I agree that this is one issue that is clearly placing those of US (in the public) on all sides of the aisle, against those IN POWER who are enabling this crap - whether on the left or on the right.

This is ultimately a populist issue - and seeing broad support from the left and right, and obviously the libertarians as well.
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #151
176. John Kennedy listened to his advisers and gave the go ahead to invade Cuba
but prior to the execution at the Bay of Pigs he learned from other trusted sources that his advisers couldn't be trusted and that they had malevolent self serving motives for the invasion. So he rescinded the order to invade, and the CIA ignored his rescinded order and went ahead with the invasion, assuming that once the invasion started Kennedy would have no other choice but to commit, but the CIA was wrong and Kennedy did not commit, and the Cuban rebels were defeated and the head of the CIA Allen Dulles was fired...

How is this relevant to Obama?
It's giving him the benefit of the doubt by saying he is listening to advisers that shouldn't be trusted because of malevolent self serving motives. But to be honest I think Obama started believing and supporting the lies of the status quo / predator class long before he entered politics; in other words, unlike John Kennedy, IMHO, Obama thinks more in terms of the right wing and is part of the problem...

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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #85
158. It is a conservative program in that a big part of the plan is to (1) buy
expensive full body scanners from Chertoff's company, and (2) teach the peons their place in the new theocracy.

The fact that RW bloggers are outraged is not here nor there; their outrage is mostly aimed at a Democratic president. When their boy Bush started up the blatantly illegal FISA wiretapping, you heard little to nothing from them. The only ones who seem consistent on this, other than most Democrats, are libertarians.
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jancantor Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #158
161. I find that non-persuasive
Right now, we have a Dem administration and these procedures are in place. Conservatives and liberals (and moderates and...) are overwhelmingly opposed to this stuff. You can try to look for nefarious motives all you want, but it doesn't address the reality - people hate this shit.

Conservatives tend to support conservative programs, even when passed by a democrat. Witness, for example, general conservative support of what Obama is doing with education. Now, THAT's a conservative program. If you use the facile definition that a conservative program is whatever you oppose, then yes- this is a conservative program. Otoh, if you look at the whole picture, you will see it is not.
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #161
184. I'm just saying that conservatives have shown over the years that
they will readily support unconstitutional/illegal/immoral shit just for money and to wield power -- outright banking fraud encouraged for years, the wars, the voting fiasco in FL in 2000, car checkpoints, FISA wiretapping, illegal search and seizure, etc. They praised Bush no matter what he did, even when his actions were entirely illegal, and they certainly did not "join up" with Dems in disapproval of his actions, even though those actions were just as outrageous as this shit from Obama and, in fact, have led straight to the cesspool we're in today. Obama didn't create the TSA, remember.

"Conservatives tend to support conservative programs, even when passed by a Democrat" -- often true, and irrelevant. If a conservative put in a liberal program, democrats would support him in that. What conservatives DON'T do, and should do, is stop worshipping their guy when he does stuff like this during his tenure and call him out on it with at least the same fervor as they call out Obama. That's why most Dems are suspicious of conservatives who all of sudden have found their voices over all this unconstitutional stuff. Bush trashed the Constitution for 8 years while the so-called conservatives waved flags and called Democrats traitors. So pardon me if I'm not impressed with their come-to-Jesus moment.

Frankly, the reason the everyday (as opposed to the rich upper crust) conservative is howling about the TSA patdowns is that finally, finally, the invasions of privacy have reached the actual physical BODIES of conservatives, and especially the bodies of the conservatives' wimmin and children. Only then did they awaken to the horror that the dastardly Dems and the commie ACLU have been warning them about for years. Maybe that's what it takes -- few complain until they are manhandled. In that case, I hope the TSA acts like a bunch of jackboots, because this all has to come to a head somehow.
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jancantor Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #184
190. I think that's true of conservatives and liberals
people are perfectly fine with constitutional erosion when it suits their cause. Look at the general disdain for the 2nd amendment for instance. I just don't see a big difference. Sorry, if I get all Jon Stewart'y and stuff but I have just seen this crap happen too many times and for too long to believe that either group is better at adhering to principles, when abandoning them suits an agenda. And god knows that goes double for politicians. Politicians are politicians first and foremost, long before they are Dems or Repubs.

Regardless, nothing you said refutes the fact that conservatives, liberals, moderates, and most people in general oppose this shit, and that it is not a conservative program. Ceteris paribus, conservatives tend to be more prudish fwiw and this particular program is obviously going to rankle them when it comes to exposing bodies.



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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
160. Nope...Tool of the ruling class
Just as I've been saying ever since he was a candidate...

The ignorant refuse to see... :eyes:
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'd really like someone to produce this on Youtube -
A fake commercial using the "Wanna get away?" theme from Delta. But the things everybody wants to get away from are TSA gropes and porno-scans.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
105. That's a good idea....
wonder if SNL will do something on the TSA gropers.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. Kiss my ass. Seriously. We're talking about molestation here. Not "frustration".
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Yeahyeah Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
33. Golly,what a surprise.
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earthlite Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
40. Both liberals and conservatives agree this is going to far.
There are very few issues that have ever united people on both sides as much as this. I'll be flying next and am not looking forward to the experience.
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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Really?
I don't have a lot of conservative friends, so it's good to know they find it as wrong as we do.
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #44
96. Yes really.
I post on several gun forums with lots or right wingers. The outrage crosses the spectrum on this issue. EVERYONE (with extremely few exceptions) is outraged over this.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #96
124. Hey! Obama finally achieved bipartisan consensus!
Right and Left both hate the TSA!
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #40
205. and 70% of America wanted a public option nt
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #205
233. What we want is irrelevant
Obama will only do what the conservative media and corporate America want.
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Misskittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
41. I just left a comment at whitehouse.gov. n/t
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
45. What if al-Qaida decides to shove bombs up their rectums next?
Will a cavity search then be required to fly on a plane?

Obama, stop having Napolitano and the TSA goon squad treat everybody who wants to fly on a plane like they're a criminal. The act of flying is not suspicious behavior and one shouldn't have to be strip searched or groped to travel in this country.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. It's coming, you can bet on it!!
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #45
61. I'm hoping the terrorists find a way to turn their semen into explosives...
... so we can get a hand-job to completion at the security check.


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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:33 PM
Original message
The terrorists are already hiding things in their penises
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
68. I saw that just now :) n/t
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #45
97. Please don't ask that. What if the TSA decides to become pro-active.
I shudder to think. . .
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Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
46. Come on Obama! Get in line and show us it's "O.K."
Bring Biden along for some fun too.





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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Worse. Let him stand impotently aside watching his wife and daughters get groped.
I don't wish that on anyone. I'm disgusted to my core that Obama would.
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
55. herp derp
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pam4water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
56. Right it's necessary just like sucking up to the Republicans. We got so much from it.... Oh wait.
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laylah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
58. I read the headline,
but pablum follows. If it is good enough for we "peons", it is good enough for BONER...

Plain and simple...

Jenn
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
60. I do not believe this method will detect if someone has swallowed condoms filled with explosives...
... the same way drug mules swallow condoms filled with heroin.

The explosives can then be shit-out in the airport restroom on the other side of security, or detonated electronically while still inside the person.

Maybe we should actually get full-body MRI's and ultrasounds before boarding the plane.


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Sienna86 Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
62. The president should experience a pat-down first, then speak.
So should all the elected officials who wish to say it is necessary.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #62
89. Actually, he should get to watch Michelle, Malia and Sasha get theirs.
:grr:
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
64. Mr. Obama say it isn't so.. you can't support the Crotch-Grabbers?
Oh fer Cris Sakes.... the TSA is designed to keep Americans in.. not to keep the bad guys out..

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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
67. Land of the sheep...
and the home of the safe :sarcasm:
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
69. Wow. I can't believe he is this stupid. (nt)
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #69
79. replace "stupid"...
with "complicit"
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #79
125. +1
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #79
234. or "corporatist"
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TheEuclideanOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #69
215. Democrats are batting 1000. Let no opportunity go to waste.
Can you please let me know if the President and our current administration has passed any opportunity to lose political credibility? I understand that since he had basically everything going in his favor in the election, he had to try super-duper hard to lose in 2012. It is basically a 24 hour a day/everyday effort to "never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity". He is doing an awesome job of making sure that the democratic party can lose as much support as possible.

We should run somebody different in 2012.
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #215
226. Isn't that the truth. I am totally disgusted that Obama would think this
groping was OK. Frankly, my first inclination, during the 2008 campaign, was that the Pubs should win this one. I could see what was coming, and I didn't think that Clinton or Obama would be able to stand up to the shit that has been going on. However, I really never thought I'd see Dems PROMOTING more of the same authoritarian ideas.

We should run someone different in 2012, for sure. But there's no way to know if he/she would try to stop any of this. Obama was a Constitutional law prof, for God's sake.
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TheEuclideanOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #226
250. Yes you and I are on the same page
I have said to people on numerous times that I was very happy that Obama was a Constitutional Law Professor. That was a big deal for me. I am totally shocked at how his performance was different than my expectations. Every day there is a new dissappointment, even on the softballs that he is thrown.
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cpwm17 Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
71. This is the price of empire
This allegedly protects us from unruly subjects (blowback). Now who is going to protect the subjects from President Obama's daily bombings?

So the US Government oppresses and conducts wars against the natives for profit. The blowback creates more excuses for more wars and more profits.

Now the US Government and corporations are coming after us. Who else is going to pay for the empire and police state? - goodbye Social Security as we know it?
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
76. Really Mr. President? We can't find a more dignified way to do this?
Something has to change, or the public will just stop flying.
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
82. Fuck you Mr. President. Give me liberty or give me death. nt
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #82
207. Lucky 13? Lucky you
I posted the same thing (stated that the President should go fornicate himself) and the post got deleted. Let's see how long this post stays up. I'm in total agreement with you!!
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #207
211. My sentiments exactly.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #211
236. And I see your post is still up. Congratulations!!
Perhaps if I hadn't drawn attention to mine by SHOUTING IN CAPS, I would have gotten away with it also.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #236
256. The voices of the sullen mutineers are growing louder.
The more the better.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
86. Which plot did the TSA thwart?
Is there a shred of evidence to suggest that the TSA is effective at preventing terrorism?
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #86
163. Well, we know the TSA didn't thwart the:
1. Bomber whose own FATHER turned him in, and the TSA let him on the plane anyway.
2. Bomber who DIDN'T HAVE A PASSPORT (even tho he just got off another plane) was let on another plane.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #163
183. It's important to remember that while they may have done nothing to thwart those two...
their knees jerked quite well in response.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
87. I am starting to get the impression...
... that Mr. Obama and I have very different definitions for the words "change" and "hope."
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #87
150. Meet the new boss...
same as the old boss...
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
88. I wonder how understanding he'd be after watching his wife and daughters go through it?
Might put things into perspective for him.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
90. He swam in the safe areas of the Gulf for a photo opportunity.
So why doesn't he get his picture taken with a TSA agent touching his junk? Then we can all say, well, hey, if Barak and Michelle and the two girls have to get their private parts touched, then so do we.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
92. When has the TSA ever found any explosives?
They let underwear guy on the plane, they let shoe guy on the plane. Seems to me thus far, they have found nothing but Bic lighters and hair conditioner.
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JJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
93. Illusions
That's all they have... the illusion of keeping us safe because everything has gone to ruin. And even this illusion requires the greatest leap of faith. Just as an example, how many American citizens have tried to blow up a commercial jet? Zero? One?
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #93
244. it's quite true that all they have is simulacra: hence the rhetoric of "the President needs to
communicate better, and stick it to the GOP," as if though he somehow has splendid liberal accomplishments that just haven't made it to the 5 o'clock news

thing is, very few of his major policies ARE liberal, so blasting the GOP for its policies and then turning around and pushing for those policies would be blatantly hypocritical
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
99. Get the Hook, Ring the Gong, Turn Off the Spotlight
the act is a bomb.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
101. Back when I withheld my vote
there were times when I questioned if it was really the right thing to do.

At this point I have no regrets at all.
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whoopingcrone Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #101
173. I envy you.
Back when I could have withheld my vote, and was pretty sure it was the right thing to do,
I chose to please my children and grandchildren instead.
Now, I get a chance to practice not saying "I told you so".
They keep getting chances to admit that sometimes mama knows best...
to everyone's sorrow and regret.

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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
104. President Obama - you are the only one looking awkward these days -nt
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
110. May I respectfully say...Fuck You Mr. Obama.. ...
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
112. If you read all Obama's actual quotes in the AP article below there's no reason for all the outrage
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #112
122. For me that article doesn't make it any better
Obama basically says tough shit in a polite way.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #112
126. Someone needs to buy our President a clue.
This enhanced security is not just a inconvenience! Ugh!
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #126
135. The US Constitution: An inconvenience to security. NM
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #112
219. lol
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
116. The reichwing lives for comments like this. Wait until all the blowhards
start in with "Obama wants your wives, daughters, and grandmas groped by the US government."

WTF is his problem?
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #116
132. My conclusion: He is a Trojan Horse.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
123. When do we get to see his wife and daughters scans blasted all over the internet?
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JJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
127. Just wondering
Has it occurred to anyone that our Gov might be preparing for an American citizen insurgency as things continue to deteriorate?

American citizens are not terrorists, so why treat them as such, unless you expect they will become so in the future?
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #127
154. Yes, it has.
Restriction of the right to travel freely goes hand in hand with unwarranted wiretapping.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #127
189. "American citizens are not terrorists"
Except for when you know, they are....
http://www.csmonitor.com/CSM-Photo-Galleries/Lists/Amer...
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Slit Skirt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
134. what gets me is all this shit we go through in the states
when i flew from mexico i didn't even have to take my shoes off

we need to put extreme pressure on Obama and all senators and house reps...at local level too


this shit stops now
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
138. My love of traveling abroad
is history.

Too many crowded airports with security linesj

Exiting the aircraft has become a free-for-all

Airlines overbook the flights (I remember decades ago before deregulation when it was just the opposite - student standy/space available was the norm)

Passengers who have been thrown off flights are rude to other passengers

No food

Etc., etc.,

On top of the insults, the airline industry is one of the biggest energy wasters/air polluters.

I'll leave the traveling by air to the rest of the world. No need to travel abroad and find McDonalds and Coca Cola everyplace anyway.



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garthranzz Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
141. BS!!
I generally support Obama, but not on this. Ask Israel how it manages to have safe security without the cheap thrill perversions.
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Caretha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
148. I'm so damn pissed
I'm from the most yellow dog democratic family you'd ever find, but I'll be damned if I ever vote for that man again in life.

I can't believe I'm even saying this, but I fuckin' A mean it.
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rainlillie Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
152. If anyone on here has a better solution to detect explosives hidden in undergarments contact ..
The authorities ASAP. http://www.tsa.gov /
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #152
162. You might want to check the internet tubes...
The Civilized world doesn't subject their populations to this kind of obscene indignity and their airplanes don't blow up either...
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rainlillie Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #162
165. In other words you don't have better solution to detect explosives.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #165
168. How many people with bombs in their underpants did TSA
prevent from getting on planes?
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rainlillie Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #168
169. I have no idea and neither do you.
It just seems to me that people on here are just bitching without offering a better solution to detect explosives.
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #169
216. I have an idea, and I'm sure it's 100% correct: 0
If they had, it would be a news story. I'm guessing that you don't fly much and/or don't mind having your genitalia fondled by strangers. Here's an even better question: how many terrorist has the TSA stopped from boarding planes since its inception? Give up? The answer is the same as the one before: 0.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #152
191. We were fine without the groping, other countries are fine without the groping.
We don't need to replace the gropings, we just need to stop them.
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #152
235. Why do you live in such fear?
It's sad. You know that fewer Americans died in terrorist attacks last year than were struck by lightning, right?

There's nothing to be scared of. Don't let the government fool you into thinking terror is a real, existential threat in your daily life.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
157. Frankly, Barack
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 07:48 PM by ProudDad
you're full of SHIT!!!

God DAMN -- do ya' get it now, folks?

For such a smart MoFo you sure are easily fooled by the minions of the "National Security State(tm)"...

Pretty soon, life just won't fucking be worth living in this useless piece of shit country!
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
166. US Citizens: Obama frustrating and not necessary in 2012
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BanzaiBonnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
167. Wrong
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Blandocyte Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
178. Wrong
We were safe BEFORE them, we would be safe now without them.
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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
180. Obama is frustrating and replaceable. nt
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
181. Liberty should never be sacrificed in the name of 'safety.' (nt)
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
188. he's quite tone deaf to the public
TSA is using security theatre. Of course someone is getting rich while
we're learning to allow govt to treat us like criminals.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #188
194. He's just a tool of the corporattions and their leaders
DeMint camp offers gift of BLACK LAWN JOCKEY STATUE to Obama ...


http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/m/a/mar...




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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #194
212. BHO is the very model of the House Servant.
They let him work in the Big House and he surely is grateful. I hate it when stereotypes sometimes turn true.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #212
223. Sad so Sad---TRUE---SO TRUE
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
193. Well, the US has already established immunity for torture & war crimes.
Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 09:39 PM by burning rain
It would be odd if now we resisted something as small as being patted down or groped. Oh!.. our government isn't supposed to mistreat us, just them...

It doesn't work that way. And it certainly wouldn't surprise me to see waterboarding become a common technique for law enforcement in the US. Safe streets, y'know...
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
196. Lol..some "change." if this is what he meant...well, no thanks!
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ezmerelda39 Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
197. Just add
the $11,000.00 fine for not complying to the cost of your ticket and guess who gets to fly and who doesn't. Now we know why the GOP is so anxious to extend the Bush Tax cuts....so they can fly with the big boys without the humiliating embarrassment of this latest infringement on human rights. And...this IS A VIOLATION, causing most people undue distress and anguish, and I might add, unnecessary. Every time some nut case makes an attempt at some sort of 'terrorist' maneuver we lose more of our rights and somebody makes millions more dollars. Chertoff and his ilk are far more terrifying than any fringe Muslim group. The 'war on terror' is such a great scam that if it weren't the Muslims it would be someone else because it is so damn profitable.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
198. I'm beginning to think he's an idiot.
:wtf:
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Oldenuff Donating Member (442 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
199. necessary ? Bulldab!


I sure wish we would have elected someone President who might have had some constitutional law experience,or maybe even taught law at the University of Chicago Law School.Can you imagine anyone who taught Constitutional law saying that this sort of BS is necessary...or lawful?Yeah,I wish we had elected someone with constitutional law experience.And them make them swear to uphold the constitution when they were inaugurated.That would have put the kabosh on all these intrusive,and illegal searches.
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sally cat Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
202. He must believe that terrorists are evenly distributed in the air-traveling population,and therefore
this methodology will catch some. That's an incorrect assumption, and it leads to a failed program.
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
206. 2009 Nobel Peace Prize winner approves TSA's tyrannical tactics
and adding Abrams tanks to the war machine in Afghanistan
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Johnny Harpo Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
209. Easy For The President To Say...
bet no one pats down Michelle or the kids.
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
214. of course he's completely correct...
As someone who takes multiple international flights a year, I guess it was just too embarrassing to mention before; a few times I've gotten onto a plane with no problems, only to find that a few hours in, when I have to go to the bathroom, that a terrorist has somehow placed weapons and explosives around my cock and balls. Man, have I felt the fool the times that has happened.
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SoCalDemGrrl Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
218. We've decided that as long as this TSA insanity continues we WILL NOT FLY
Edited on Sun Nov-21-10 02:07 AM by SoCalDemGrrl
that's it..... we are driving or taking the train....

off course the CEOs and multi-millionaire hedge fund guys just pony up $25Gs for a private aircraft at their
local airport and avoid all the riff-raff and TSA silliness.....
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FlyByNight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
221. With due respect to President Obama...
...he's full of shit. How would he know what it feels like? I'm due to fly for Thanksgiving and X-mas and I'm NOT looking forward to it at all.

Like everything else in this proto-fascist "republic", this is about money: enriching the scanner manufacturer(s) who happen to be represented by Mike Chertoff, former DHS secretary. I'm sure that's no small coincidence.

Sure you have rights... only when the government thinks you're due them (so they can ensure well-positioned corporate profits).

:puke:
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
222. Wrong.
Do you work with Fox News? Then why are you spinning this as well?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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TheLastMohican Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
224. Obama is a joke
Next time someone touches my son like this? I am going to jail, but I am breaking a few noses of TSA personnel on the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skkCpnCm7iM&feature=play...

Can you now officially say that all the pedophiles now have a wonderful job opportunity?
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #224
227. that's an understatement. nt
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #224
251. Obama looks stupid here...It ISN"T NECESSARY
we are not criminals!!!
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
230. Obama's polls may be worst than Bush's ever was.
This New World Order guy sucks.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
237. A second Obama term? Frustrating and UnNecessary (n/t)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
240. Why not use dogs that can detect explosives instead?
If explosives are hiding in a shoe, we will not find them by patting down the elderly. :crazy:
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Bill O Rights Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #240
261. Because Michael Chertoff and others are making MILLIONS!
by getting the scanners installed at airports and also train stations, bus terminals, sporting events and eventually our very city streets.

The TSA isn't doing this to keep us safe. Pistole himself admitted that the TSA does NOT screen the people who WORK at the airport. THIS IS A MASSIVE HOLE IN SECURITY that no amount of PORNO-scanners or gential searches will do ANYTHING to stop a bomb plot when the aforementioned condition remains.

After leaving office, Napolitano will join the likes of Chertoff and become a lobbyist for the companies who build and install the scanners in our nation and around the world. She is a charletan and a betrayer of our nation's citizens.

We are being BETRAYED by our leaders, they have declared WAR on our rights.
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bikebloke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
241. If it's necessary, then why did they wait until now?
Why didn't the groping begin right after the underwear bomber was foiled, rather than wait all this time until Chertoff's death ray machines were rolled out?

I'd say "security my ass" but the TSA goons have already taken it literally.
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Loge23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
242. Obama: Frustrating and NOT necessary.
I'm really getting disgusted with this guy.
I hope he decides against another run and saves me the disgust of having to vote for him.
Or maybe, with the way things seem to going, he'll just switch parties.
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
249. Bullshit...
Ever travel to Israel? There is none of this arbitrary crap - but they do profile. And when was the last time an El Al plane got hijacked?
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
252. Anyone touching your junk, Mr. President?
Just curious.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
253. The Camel's Back isn't Broken.
It's shattered.

Completely. Utterly.

DONE.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
254. doesn't he say the same thing about war?
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
255. It is excessive...
You go through a sniffer and a x-ray machine, yet TSA still feels it is necassary cop a cheap feel.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-10 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
257. Great, I'm flying home for the holidays in December.
Now I have to decide whether I want the radiation or the groping.

Arsenic or cyanide.........

:-(
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Bill O Rights Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-10 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
259. Any politician who supports the TSA's actions is a TRAITOR
They have all taken an oath to protect, preserve and defend the Constitution. And that of course means that they have taken an oath to defend the most important part of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights. We need to realize that BOTH parties have declared WAR on the Bill of Rights and therefore, on us.

The TSA already has plans and in fact, is already IMPLEMENTING plans to bring their POLICE STATE tactics to Bus and Train stations and even our city streets.

Google VIPR teams and X-RAY vans.

This is NOT the time for partisanship, this is the time for ALL Americans to stand together in defense of the Bill of Rights.
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Bill O Rights Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
260. I was proud to vote for Obama..........
I was proud to vote against the party that took our nation to war based upon premeditated lies.
But then Obama left 50,000 troops in Iraq and escalated the war in Afghanistan.

I was proud to vote against the party that forced the Patriot Act upon us, and established the Guantanamo Prison.

But Obama did NOTHING to remove either of these vile things from our nation.
I was proud to vote against the party that tortured prisoners.

But Obama has made no effort whatsoever to hold the torturers accountable and is now calling for the assassinations of American citizens.

And now the Obama Administration is launching a full on attack on our Constitutional Rights by the TSA and Homeland Security. They are demanding that we allow our families to be digitally strip searched or have TSA agents place their hands on any part of their bodies including their genitals as a condition to travel.

I am no longer proud that I voted for Obama, I am outraged that he has betrayed our nation and our trust.
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