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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:28 AM
Original message
STOCK MARKET WATCH, Monday August 23
Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Monday August 23, 2010

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON August 20, 2010

Dow... 10,213.62 -57.59 (-0.56%)
Nasdaq... 2,179.76 +0.81 (+0.04%)
S&P 500... 1,071.69 -3.94 (-0.37%)
Gold future... 1,230 +0.80 (+0.07%)
10-Yr Bond... 2.60 -0.01 (-0.54%)
30-Year Bond 3.65 -0.02 (-0.41%)



Market Conditions During Trading Hours


Euro, Yen, Loonie, Silver and Gold






Handy Links - Market Data and News:
Economic Calendar    Marketwatch Data    Bloomberg Economic News    Yahoo! Finance    Google Finance    Bank Tracker    
Credit Union Tracker    Daily Job Cuts

Handy Links - Economic Blogs:

The Big Picture    Financial Sense    Calculated Risk    Naked Capitalism    Credit Writedowns
Brad DeLong      Bonddad    Atrios    goldmansachs666    The Stand-Up Economist

Handy Links - Government Issues:

LegitGov    Open Government    Earmark Database    USA spending.gov

Bush Administration Officials Convicted = 2
Names: David Safavian, James Fondren

Bush Administration Officials Charged = 1
Name(s): Richard Lopez Razo

Financial Sector Officials Convicted since 1/20/09 =
11









This thread contains opinions and observations. Individuals may post their experiences, inferences and opinions on this thread. However, it should not be construed as advice. It is unethical (and probably illegal) for financial recommendations to be given here.

Read more: du
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. no goobermental reports today n/t
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oil hovers below $74 amid growth uncertainty
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – Oil prices hovered below $74 a barrel Monday in Asia as uncertainty about the global economy's prospects outweighed possible production disruptions in the Gulf of Mexico due to hurricane season.

Benchmark crude for October delivery was down 7 cents to $73.75 a barrel at late afternoon Kuala Lumpur time in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The contract lost 97 cents to settle at $73.82 on Friday.

In other Nymex trading in September contracts, natural gas for September delivery fell 4.8 cents to $4.069 per 1,000 cubic feet. Heating oil dropped 0.26 cent to $1.968 a gallon and gasoline slipped 0.6 cent to $1.919 a gallon.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. Compensation czar takes charge of $20 billion BP fund
NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) – A $20 billion compensation fund for economic victims of the BP Gulf oil spill opens for business on Monday amid accusations that the rules established by its administrator are unfair.

Kenneth Feinberg who will run the fund said those who sustained financial loss because of the spill could claim for damages and he promised claimants more generous treatment than they would get if they sued the energy giant for damages.

Feinberg was named its administrator because of the reputation for fairness he acquired administering the 9/11 fund and determining executive pay for companies bailed out by the government during the recession.

So far, BP has paid $375 million in compensation, Feinberg said, though that money was separate from the $20 billion.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100823/ts_nm/us_oil_spill_fund
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. Wall Street gloom set to stretch
NEW YORK (AFP) – Wall Street stocks ended mostly lower the past week despite positive company earnings and corporate activity as pessimism over the US economic recovery prevailed.

Sentiment could be further dampened the coming week with the government expected to significantly revise lower the economic growth chalked up in the second quarter period.

Shares were especially pulled down by government data Thursday showing new weekly jobless benefit claims jumping to the highest level in nine months, and slower regional manufacturing activity.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100821/ts_alt_afp/stocksusweekly
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. Wall Street set to edge higher
LONDON (Reuters) – Wall Street was set to edge up on Monday, with merger and acquisition activity boosting sentiment after major indexes fell for two weeks in a row.

At 0846 GMT (4:46 a.m. EDT), futures for the Dow Jones, S&P 500 and Nasdaq were up between 0.2 and 0.3 percent.

The FTSEurofirst 300 index of leading European shares was up 0.4 percent at 1,033.86 points, with miners gaining on hopes that Australia's election result means plans for higher taxes will be scrapped.

There are no major U.S. companies due to report. Results due later in the week include those from bookseller Barnes & Noble, expected to report a quarterly loss on Tuesday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100823/bs_nm/us_markets_stocks
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:41 AM
Response to Original message
6. Asia shares mixed on economic pessimism, Europe up
BANGKOK – Asian markets were mixed Monday as pessimism about the world economy deepened and Australian stocks faltered on the likelihood of a weak minority government following weekend elections. European shares opened higher.

European shares posted moderate gains in early trade with benchmarks in Britain, France and Germany up 0.3 percent or more. Futures pointed to small gains on Wall Street with Dow futures up 23 points, or 0.2 percent, at 10,225.00. Broader S&P futures gained 3.6, or 0.3 percent, to 1,073.90.

Japan's Nikkei 225 stock average shed 0.7 percent to 9,116.69 as a strong yen — which can reduce the profits of Japanese exporters — continued to drag sentiment. As expected, Prime Minister Naoto Kan and Bank of Japan Governor Masaaki Shirakawa discussed on the telephone recent foreign exchange developments, according to Kyodo news agency.

Hong Kong's Hang Seng lost 0.6 percent to 20,863.92 and Seoul's Kospi fell 0.4 percent to 1,767.71.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100823/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. first rec! Good Morning Ozy!
Hope your weekend was good.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. G'morning Demeter.
:donut: :donut: :donut:
Thanks. It was busier than I thought it would be as of Friday evening. Quite a bit of stuff managed to get done, though, including the screed I posted (linked from the WEE) about Social Security and the idiocy of Dean Baker.

I believe that the inherent idiocy of Bruce Reed needs to be examined.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
8. How a homeownership fetish hurt the American dream By Robert J. Samuelson
I TAKE ISSUE WITH THIS OPINION. IT WAS NOT THE DESIRE TO OWN A HOME, BUT THE DESIRE TO DEFRAUD PEOPLE, THAT BLIGHTED THE AMERICAN DREAM...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/22/AR2010082202273.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
27. so would I
When you have private mortgage companies making home loans that 90% are stated income only that's a sign of predatory mortgage servicing. To make it worse they're profiting off the foreclosures

http://www.shamethebanks.org/jorge/bankers-bet-on-failure-of-us-homeowners


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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
35. get ready for the Company Barracks and the Company Store
after all, we don't need homes.

Maybe the real problem is thinking of "home" as an investment rather than a place to live? And who taught us that, eh?
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
50. When one takes the time to read through the stories about the
financial crisis in books like Broke, Inc, It Takes a Pillage, 13 Bankers, The Big Short, Ecconed, or the FCIC and Federal Reserve reports, it becomes crystal clear that the rapacious folks in the financial sector, who took greed to a whole new level, were the single greatest cause of this tragedy. Once they figured out how to securitize mortgage debt and enlist the help of the ratings agencies, it was only a matter of time before they killed the golden-egg laying goose, as it were. Ranging from designing financial products that only needed for homes to stop increasing in value to fail, to selling and re-selling re-finance to owners who had no business getting the first loan, or brokers who actively tried to engineer the market's failure so they could profit, these people did far more to hurt this country than any terrorist EVER has, all enabled by a 30 year campaign of the banks to rid themselves of the rules that were brought about by the Great Depression to guard us against these darkest of vultures.

If the people protesting the new community center at the old Burlington Coat Factory in New York could devote half a brain cell to understanding who their real enemy is, they would put up welcome balloons for their new Muslim neighbors and head for Wall Street. And hopefully the president would not stand in the way as they chased these predatory rats into the river where they belong.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #50
68. Most people are clueless

Maybe when the banksters have steathly taken the last of their money, and the people are cold, hungry, and pennyless, they will head to Wall street.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
51. Home ownership is THE ticket into the middle class
And I use "middle class" in the American sense, not a British/European sense.

It's the ticket to establishing financial security and family stability.

As home ownership grew in the post WW2 era, thanks to GI loans and GI bill education benefits, more and more and more people moved into financial security. This was also a time of increasing union membership, booming manufacturing, and high taxes on the wealthy. Oh, yeah, and much of it was pushed during a REPUBLICAN administration (Eisenhower).

Baby boomers getting into their peak income years in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s, fueled the demand for what would become the housing bubble of the 2000s. Interestingly enough, my experience at the carcass of Charlie Keating's Lincoln Savings in the early 90s provides yet another lesson: Keating made a lot of money on his housing developments, but he saw the handwriting on the wall. There was only so much money to be made there, and he wanted out. He cashed out a lot of his "investments" and put them into hotels and resorts (his Phoenician would become legendary for its excess) because he saw that at a steady stream of income rather than a one-time sale.

But as the banksters saw the profites to be reaped (raped?) from the market by way of derivatives, they had to have more and more and more mortgages to securitize. They sold their toxic-by-design product to the unwary, the untrained and watched gleefully as the bubble burst and the same people they'd fleeced were conned again into bailing out the ones who had caused the problem.

Home OWNERSHIP -- via an affordable mortgage that is eventually paid off -- is indeed the key that unlocks the door to middle class security. There's nothing wrong with that part of the dream. What's wrong is the thieves who turned it into a nightmare.

Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em all.


Tansy Gold, NTY

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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Kills me - They sell a $724K home to a field worker in California with a $14K
income, and people say it is the customer's fault?

It has taken me a fair amount of time and reading to understand exactly how badly the financial sector has treated us, and to go through the details fo the 30+ year campaign to install their people in the government and change the thinking in our culture so they could remove the regulation.

I think about making some kind of outline, or movie, or ?, because I THINK (assume?) that most Americans have never really been shown what is happening to their life. Do some organizing stuff, tell people who the villians are. And educate them so they can't be taken so badly.

On the other hand, maybe not. They might just wish to avoid it, until it comes knocking on their door. The culture has changed. Michael Lewis said he wrote Liar's Poker so that college students might read it and be warned away from Wall Street. Instead they read it as a how-to manual, and deluged him with "how do I get there so I can get mine?" requests. Michael Moore tried to talk about this in Roger and Me and others, but it seems like the only people that respond are those that are pre-disposed to agreeing. I just don't see where it has changed many minds.

Read an article about the end of home ownership as the key, somewhat along the lines of what you wrote. According to the author, that's over for at least a decade or more. I will link it when I get back home later.

sigh...
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #56
69. Most people do not think the banksters are evil

I've tried to explain to my siblings with articles, videos, graphs, pictures, the sad state of this economy. But they think I'm nuts, preferring to believe the propagandists that the recovery is just around the corner. It's really hard to wake them up, they have to do that themselves.

But one of my sisters is awakening though, and is wigged out that the country will soon be in a revolution.



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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #51
65. Here's the link to the article
though you may have seen it by now...

here...
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
10. The Tiger Woods of Nations By David Michael Green
http://www.regressiveantidote.net/Articles/The_Tiger_Woods_of_Nations.html


...What a surprise it must be, then, to find that this country has slipped in ranked percentage of college graduates, from first in the world to twelfth, all in the space of one generation. Which is, coincidentally, the same amount of time that the US has been under the rule of regressive politicians and their radically destructive policies. Forty percent of young Americans have some sort of college degree today, as opposed to fifty-six percent in Russia, for example, meaning that we could all be forgiven for wondering who really won the Cold War. It goes on and on from there. Everything about this country fairly screams out “Decline!!”....
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
11. Bond Funds Gain Cash Like Stocks in Dot-Com Era: Credit Markets
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=abvRHA9sEMxk&pos=6

Aug. 23 (Bloomberg) -- The amount of money flowing into bond funds is poised to exceed the cash that went into stock funds during the Internet bubble, stoking concern fixed-income markets are headed for a fall.

Investors poured $480.2 billion into mutual funds that focus on debt in the two years ending June, compared with the $496.9 billion received by equity funds from 1999 to 2000, according to data compiled by Bloomberg and the Washington-based Investment Company Institute.

Concern the global economic recovery is faltering, with the U.S. growing at a slower-than-forecast 2.4 percent pace in the second quarter, is prompting investors to pile into fixed-income securities of all types even with some yields at record lows. The new cash has helped fuel a rally and drove yields on investment-grade U.S. corporate debt down to a record 3.79 percent last week, while two-year U.S. Treasury yields fell to an all-time low of less than 0.5 percent.

One thing we could see from the Lehman-Bear-AIG collapse of 2007 is that bond holders were protected whereas shareholders went face-to-face with the prospect of being wiped out. To see money flowing into bonds is not a surprise considering the uncertainty over weakening economic activity.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:19 AM
Response to Original message
12. Happy Birthday to the Crazy Nut!
Sara is one year old today. The wife is 62 today. I'll take the wife to the park, and send the dog to work!

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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Wait. Which is the crazy one?
Wait... Is the wife reading this?

Congratulations, all!
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Both.
But the wife pinches.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #17
29. my brother has birthday today too
Edited on Mon Aug-23-10 07:05 AM by DemReadingDU



Happy Birthday to all!



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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
49. And the wife looks better....
going through the lingerie drawer than Sara.:evilgrin:
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. Great way to start a Monday.
Have an awesome one! :)

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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. uhhhhhh..
Happy B-day Mrs. Phool and Sarah
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. And Many More!
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:25 AM
Response to Original message
13. Debt: 08/19/2010 13,363,227,573,941.68 (UP 9,426,562,387.73) (Thu)
(Up some. Good day.)
Was late all day, but did celebrate Christmas. Tractor keeps detracking.
(Debt under Obama seems to jump up big then drop slowly maybe up a little and down a little for days--repeat.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 8,833,840,421,104.71 + 4,529,387,152,836.97
UP 8,231,027,173.23 + UP 1,195,535,214.50

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 310-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.23 THAT'S 1B$, and $3,226.72 makes 1T$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.68, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 13 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 309,912,362 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 04/09/2010 15:49 -> 309,034,742
Currently, each of these Americans owe $43,119.38.
A family of three owes $129,358.13. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 24 reports in the last 30 to 31 days.
The average for the last 24 reports is 5,013,905,483.87.
The average for the last 30 days would be 4,011,124,387.10.
The average for the last 31 days would be 3,881,733,277.84.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 222 reports in 323 days of FY2010 averaging 6.55B$ per report, 4.50B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 885 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 14.6 and 17.9T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
08/19/2010 13,363,227,573,941.68 BHO (UP 2,736,350,525,028.60 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +1,453,398,570,429.90 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
Endof10 +1,642,385,381,445.55 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Linear Projection

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
07/30/2010 +000,337,023,124.63 ------------********
08/02/2010 +069,233,337,488.16 ------------********** Mon
08/03/2010 -000,228,970,360.68 ---
08/04/2010 +000,329,380,791.87 ------------********
08/05/2010 +005,243,790,680.65 ------------*********
08/06/2010 +000,053,282,619.67 ------------*******
08/09/2010 -000,264,966,096.92 --- Mon
08/10/2010 +001,721,061,315.43 ------------*********
08/11/2010 +000,095,029,920.46 ------------*******
08/12/2010 +008,430,031,924.23 ------------*********
08/13/2010 -000,288,829,216.29 ---
08/16/2010 +038,527,213,023.81 ------------********** Mon
08/17/2010 +000,086,946,367.61 ------------*******
08/18/2010 +000,214,319,067.84 ------------********
08/19/2010 +008,231,027,173.23 ------------*********

131,719,677,823.70 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
DUer primer on National debt

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4511225&mesg_id=4511257
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
66. Debt: 08/20/2010 13,361,739,911,386.51 (DOWN 1,487,662,555.17) (Fri)
(Down a little. Good day.)
No tent poles!
(Debt under Obama seems to jump up big then drop slowly maybe up a little and down a little for days--repeat.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 8,833,342,442,821.93 + 4,528,397,468,564.58
DOWN 497,978,282.78 + DOWN 989,684,272.39

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 310-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.23 THAT'S 1B$, and $3,226.65 makes 1T$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.68, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 13 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 309,919,008 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 04/09/2010 15:49 -> 309,034,742
Currently, each of these Americans owe $43,113.65.
A family of three owes $129,340.95. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 24 reports in the last 30 to 31 days.
The average for the last 24 reports is 4,822,560,423.76.
The average for the last 30 days would be 3,858,048,339.01.
The average for the last 31 days would be 3,733,595,166.78.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 223 reports in 324 days of FY2010 averaging 6.51B$ per report, 4.48B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 884 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 14.6 and 17.9T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
08/20/2010 13,361,739,911,386.51 BHO (UP 2,734,862,862,473.43 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +1,451,910,907,874.80 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
Endof10 +1,635,640,374,612.04 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Linear Projection

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
08/02/2010 +069,233,337,488.16 ------------********** Mon
08/03/2010 -000,228,970,360.68 ---
08/04/2010 +000,329,380,791.87 ------------********
08/05/2010 +005,243,790,680.65 ------------*********
08/06/2010 +000,053,282,619.67 ------------*******
08/09/2010 -000,264,966,096.92 --- Mon
08/10/2010 +001,721,061,315.43 ------------*********
08/11/2010 +000,095,029,920.46 ------------*******
08/12/2010 +008,430,031,924.23 ------------*********
08/13/2010 -000,288,829,216.29 ---
08/16/2010 +038,527,213,023.81 ------------********** Mon
08/17/2010 +000,086,946,367.61 ------------*******
08/18/2010 +000,214,319,067.84 ------------********
08/19/2010 +008,231,027,173.23 ------------*********
08/20/2010 -000,497,978,282.78 ---

130,884,676,416.29 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
DUer primer on National debt

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4514386&mesg_id=4514403
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
14. Credit Card Companies Jack Up Rates Despite Flagging Economy, Super Low Funding Costs
posted at naked Capitalism by Yves Smith:

Even though banks are getting all kinds of bennies from the Fed and regulators, such as a nice steep yield curve and lots of regulatory forbearance (econ-speak for extend and pretend), they are still out to extract a pound of flesh from the retail borrower. Since that has been a core element of their business model for the last decade, it is probably not so surprising that they are loath to give that practice up.

....

But (drumroll) increasing interest rates, particularly when the banks are getting very sizeable subsidies, means that more of the money consumers pay to credit card companies goes to interest, less to reducing principal (of course, the banks will maintain that they are merely recouping lost income from penalties, since new credit card rules have curbed abusive practices).

A more serious issue is that not all consumer debt is consumer debt. Credit cards have long been an important source of funding for small businesses. Generally speaking, banks will lend only to relatively large, established “small” businesses, or against assets. For instance, Amar Bhide, in his landmark book on new venture, found that the biggest sources of funding for new enterprises were savings, friends and family, and credit cards. Small business owners often use credit cards to contend with temporary cash flow shortfalls or seasonal borrowing needs. And I’ve known some who have maxed out their credit cards to save their companies.

Profits must always increase. Otherwise, the stock and the company's market value will take a beating. As credit card/banking profits are forecast to decline because of new debt credit card rules - is anyone surprised that cheap money goes hand-in-hand with punitive fees and higher interest rates?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. The Crooks are Still in Charge
So much for hope and change.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
18. Say-- what did you think about the DU fund drive?
Speaking for myself: I think that unrec feature needs to be deleted if not severely augmented. The tense drive gave me some ground from which to yell about that feature/bug.

Have a great day, kind folks. I must leave. :hi:
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #18
45. mixed feelings
Edited on Mon Aug-23-10 11:40 AM by Roland99
the pity party thread (that I knew would work and bring in more donors) was a bit much, imo.

But this place still has more benefit than drawback and I sure as hell want to see DU put a stop to that Las Vegas Review rag that sues anyone and everyone for every little link back to their site. Freakin' right-wing greedy asshats.


Oh, and i've unRECced a thread here or there, myself. ;-)

Esp. the self-congratulating, the overly-dramatic and then just the plain stupid or pointless.

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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #45
52. Ditto on the pity party
I rarely unrec and would not miss it if it disappeared completely.

What I'd rather see is a "hide post" feature, which would hide not only an individual post but also all replies to it.

But that's just me.



TG, NTY
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. Gerald Celente: The Recession is Heading Toward Depression By Daniel Tencer
SEE VIDEO AT LINK!

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26222.htm

Collapse of middle class means there's no fuel for recovery, Gerald Celente argues...

BUT PLENTY OF FUEL FOR REVOLUTION--SINCE ELECTION YIELDED NOTHING!
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Obama's "Recovery Summer" Hits a Snag By Mike Whitney
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26223.htm

Barack Obama's "Recovery Summer" tour has turned into a public relations disaster. The whole idea of claiming "mission accomplished" over the recession was wacky from the very beginning. It just shows how out of touch with reality Obama's economics team really is. These guys need to stop pouring over their own rosy projections and get out more....

MUCH MORE AT LINK
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. The Erosion of America's Middle Class By Thomas Schulz
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26219.htm

While America's super-rich congratulate themselves on donating billions to charity, the rest of the country is worse off than ever. Long-term unemployment is rising and millions of Americans are struggling to survive. The gap between rich and poor is wider than ever and the middle class is disappearing...
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. sounds like TPTB are moving in for the kill with their austerity
"One of the good businesses to get in to may be guillotines," Celente quipped. "Because there's a real off-with-their-heads fever going on. People are really fed up."

Yes they are but like this administration and the mistakes they've made the country will make the same ones.

The government is "not putting money where it should go," he said

The country is "not putting the blame where it should go"

Obamacare..lazy unemployed..Acorn..unions..immigration..pension funds..
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
31. yeh, depression's coming


My family thinks I'm nuts, they don't believe me. None can stop their addiction to spending. Gotta have the newest tech gadgets, a bigger house, an exotic vacation, a luxury car, expensive hobbies. I don't even mention anything about the economy anymore. I guess they will finally wake up when this global financial Ponzi that we are living in, implodes. Then we all have nothing, like Bernie Madoff victims.

Except for 1 sister. She has skipped the depression phase, and is immersed in the upcoming revolution, to the point of actually planning to leave the U.S. to live on an island. But she thinks she will be able to hop on a plane to come visit us for the holidays.
:eyes:


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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. for a few years now
I've been seeing a huge rise of storage facilities. You know the ones with climate control..and I can't for the life of me figure out why. Now I'm wondering if people are laying supplies away or stuff they've stolen.

Yes..I see the same here. Those who haven't been touched can't see it. Those who have are fighting desperately for any kind of justice. Others waiting for the last shoe to drop are making hasty decisions in an attempt to
escape. My SIL wants to move my daughter and grandson to Alaska. They're disenchanted republicans who sold a concrete company a few years ago to go into house building. Bad timing. The only contracts they're getting is from the stimulus to build low income homes. Ironic.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. storage facilities

Lots have been built in our area too. I always figured people had so much stuff, they had to rent one of those to store all their extras. It just never occurred to me that they would store supplies for the depression. Great idea, I may need to consider that for myself.

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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
70. band practice
that's what everyone i know uses them for. We have at least 6 bands at the storage place I use.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
22. The Wall Street Journal Editorial Page, Encapsulated By Ryan Chittum
http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/the_wall_street_journal_editor.php

Here’s just about all you need to know (or quite a bit, anyway) about the Wall Street Journal editorial page, summed up in one unfortunate headline and subhed:

The Real Tragedy of Persistent Unemployment

It erodes the skills of the labor force and reduces future productivity.

The real tragedy of the little people being out of work for long periods, you see, is that Serious Men of Industry can’t get as much use out of their wage slaves. Serious Men of Finance won’t be able to skim as much out of the economy, either, if these people are out of work too long.

Meanwhile, all that stuff about people going homeless, kids suffering, depression, divorce, abuse—hey, all that’s the Fake Tragedy.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
23. Tremble, Banks, Tremble BY James K. Galbraith
http://www.tnr.com/article/economy/76146/tremble-banks-tremble

The financial crisis in America isn't over. It's ongoing, it remains unresolved, and it stands in the way of full economic recovery. The cause, at the deepest level, was a breakdown in the rule of law. And it follows that the first step toward prosperity is to restore the rule of law in the financial sector.

First, there was a stand-down of the financial police. The legal framework for this was laid with the repeal of Glass-Steagall in 1999 and the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000. Meanwhile the Basel II process relaxed international bank supervision, especially permitting the use of proprietary models to value complex assets—an open invitation to biased valuations and accounting frauds.

Key acts of de-supervision came under Bush. After 9/11 500 FBI agents assigned to financial fraud were reassigned to counter–terrorism and (what is not understandable) they were never replaced. The Director of the Office of Thrift Supervision appeared at a press conference with a stack of copies of the Code of Federal Regulations and a chainsaw—the message was not subtle. The SEC relaxed limits on leverage for investment banks and abolished the uptick rule limiting short sales to moments following a rise in price. The new order was clear: anything goes.

Second, the response to desupervision was a criminal takeover of the home mortgage industry. Millions of subprime mortgages were made to borrowers with undocumented incomes and bad or non-existent credit records. Appraisers were selected who were willing to inflate the value of the home being sold. This last element was not incidental: surveys showed that practically all appraisers came under pressure to inflate valuations in order to make deals happen. There is no honest reason why a lender would deliberately seek to make an inflated loan...
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. In an attempt to restore faith one would think at least a few token heads would roll?? n/t
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Faith Doesn't Need Miracles!
Edited on Mon Aug-23-10 07:42 AM by Demeter
Faith just needs a complete suspension of reality.

In fact, most faith-addicts lose it when they start to get what they've been praying for...
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. But the PTB need to continue the illusion that the system is funtioning.
After 3 plus months of money flowing out of equities, the NYT finally runs the story. Not all of this is a flee to cash since bond funds have grown proportionately. Are J&J6P slowly waking up? If so they must somehow be lulled back into a coma.

That is not going to happen with a 'miraculous' housing recovery, or jobs for the now unemployed. So how best to keep the proverbial can rolling down the highway?

The so-called 'huge' levies against the banksters didn't get the mileage expected. So the next logical step would be a couple high profile prosecutions. Between that, and the NYC community center bullshit, the sheeple can be expected to slumber through till at least the holiday shopping season.
YMMV
.


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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. Right on cue... CNBS runs this story

Note the time of this posting :rofl:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/38814496
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. I Guess I Can't Shop at Michael's Anymore
Sigh. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. Looks like they sold it in 2006
Ignorance WAS bliss, but now you can shop with a clear conscience????



Tansy Gold, who much prefers JoAnn's and never sets foot in Hobby Lobby.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Is that because the chain is run by a bunch of fundies?
That's why I do not shop there.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. Yes. Plus
the store in my neighborhood has the world's worst service. I went in twice for small items when I didn't have time to drive all the way to JoAnn's. The first time I had absolutely terrible service but needed the item (a hairpin lace loom) and so I put up with it. The second time the service was worse, so I threw the item on the counter and told them their customer service sucked and I would never ever darken their fucking door again. The manager gasped.

They have impulse items at the check out just like any other retailer, but when I saw the tins of breath candies labeled "Testamints" I knew I was definitely in the wrong store.

Haven't been back since.



TG, NTY
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #23
39. Why isn't Mr Galbraith Obama's right-hand man?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. Because Nobody Is?
There aren't any lefties, either, as we can tell by the policies...

so, what is the sound of no hands clapping?
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #47
71. I was under the impression that Goldman Sachs, his principal campaign donor, was as
close to being his guru as any individual.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #47
72. Do you remember about the one hand clapping? Hunter S had a rather
Edited on Tue Aug-24-10 12:16 PM by Joe Chi Minh
painful answer for a smart Alec who asked him that. He mentioned something about compressing air in the man's eustachian tube with a heavy slap of his cupped hand, thereby rendering him deaf in that ear. He was not really an apt student for the spiritual wisdom of religious longsuffering.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
25. Demand for Educated Workers May Outstrip Supply by 2018
AND WHAT DO THEY DO IN THE MEANWHILE?

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/06/15/demand-for-educated-workers-may-outstrip-supply-by-2018/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wsj%2Feconomics%2Ffeed+%28WSJ.com%3A+Real+Time+Economics+Blog%29

...By 2018, the United States will see 46.8 million job openings, 63% — 29.5 million — of which will require some college education. One-third, or 16 million positions, will require a bachelor’s degree or higher, according to a report by the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce.

Companies will seek 22 million new postsecondary degree-holders, but just 19 million or so will have earned an associate’s degree or higher by then, according to the report. The difference averages to a 300,000 annual deficit of college graduates between 2008 and 2018.

The shift toward a “college economy” stems from a greater reliance on technology, which has recently replaced many blue collar jobs: a change from 25 million jobs for degree-holders in 1973 — 28% of the work force — to 91 million in 2007 — 42% of the workforce. Report authors Anthony P. Carnevale, Nicole Smith and Jeff Strohl estimate that 45% of the expected 166 million work force in 2018 is expected to hold an associate’s degree or higher.

“The implications of this shift represent a sea change in American society,” the report states. “Essentially, postsecondary education or training has become the threshold requirement for access to middle-class status and earnings in good times and in bad. It is no longer the preferred pathway to middle-class jobs — it is, increasingly, the only pathway.”


AND IF YOU BELIEVE ANY OF THAT, I HAVE A NICE BRIDGE--AN HISTORIC MONUMENT--TO SELL YOU....
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
53. They do the same thing they have done for the Nursing shortage....
Edited on Mon Aug-23-10 02:08 PM by AnneD
go out to the Nurse tree and pick the number they need. In the meantime the number of Nurse educators decline as their average age increases. If they funded Nurse Education like they fund Doc education-we wouldn't have this problem....and you need a damn site more nurses than you need docs. They are not putting some of the Nurses to work now and the new graduates are leaving the profession before we can get them seasoned-and we need every last one of them.

I must say I totally agree with the comments about directing students to trades. My brothers did just as well with their trades education as I did with my academic education...with a lot less trauma in the process. Frankly, I think I would have been better served never having left the Reservation save to get Nursing training.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
37. Here's some common sense good news....the little guy seems to be catching onto the con.....
In a Striking Shift, Small Investors Flee Stock Market
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/business/22invest.html?_r=4&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1282557606-PLXy4CEVFvViAO9wriUeYQ


Investors withdrew a staggering $33.12 billion from domestic stock market mutual funds in the first seven months of this year, according to the Investment Company Institute, the mutual fund industry trade group. Now many are choosing investments they deem safer, like bonds.

If that pace continues, more money will be pulled out of these mutual funds in 2010 than in any year since the 1980s, with the exception of 2008, when the global financial crisis peak



___


Unlike the last Crash the smallest investors today can see that the bridge is out over the canyon and the best thing to do is dive for the edge of the track bed and take yer lumps....


The fun this time is waiting to see what the big boys do.


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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. Not my family

They have professional financial planners who tell them the market may go down, but it always recovers. Or as one sister told me, if she gets out of the market, she will miss the gains when it goes back up.

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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. If I broke every bone in my body I would recover.....eventually.
The difference between breaking my big toe (last November) and breaking every bone in my body is that when I broke my toe, I could've gone to work the next day. And the day after, etc. I could make some money to feed my family....

Sometimes the market stumbles, sometimes it breaks a toe. But, rarely, it will have a major catastrophic event. I don't think I'd trust all my money to some guy who has a vested interest in glossing over the diagnosis.
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. You may recover, but never too run with the "Big Dogs" again n/t
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
54. At the risk of eating glass......
my crystal ball says they will continue to privitize social security and force more young workers to invest more into the shell game via laws similar to 'Health Care Reform'. I am sure they will come up with more ways to skin what is left of the middle class, unless the middle class institutes reforms of their own...say a FRSP.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em folks.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
42. 11 o'clock oopsie: Fall Down Go Boom



into the red, baby kitty, into the red.....
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
48. If You Want Me To Buy Your Stock, Then Pay Me A Dividend
I need something tangible from holding onto your stock.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. What a quaint old fashioned idea....
you actually expect to get a profit from your stocks. Honey, they have been trying AND SUCCEEDING to do away with that every since they started 'reinvesting' dividends and declaring bankruptcy to liquidate the employee held stock based pension plans and liquidating assets.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. and I thought stocks were for buying low & selling high at least 10x/day
:crazy:
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Well, They Aint Getting My Money
I'm tired of seeing my retirement plan's value cut each day just because some trader has a wild hair up his ass. I need cash today, not tomorrow.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. In the words of Will Rogers.....
"The best way to double your money is to fold it and put it into your pocket."
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alterfurz Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. Will Rogers on trickle-down economics
"Feed the horse enough oats, and eventually some of them will find their way onto the road for the sparrows to find."
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #48
62. Remember the "Greater Fool" theory.
The Greater Fool theory exists because in the years before the great crash, stock prices (ergo: market capitalization) relied upon the next fool to sustain the prices and push them to a higher level. Dividends be damned.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-10 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
59. At the close - markets stub their toe on the way to recovery
Dow 10,174 -39 -0.38%
Nasdaq 2,160 -20 -0.92%
S&P 500 1,067 -4 -0.40%
GlobalDow 1,808 -3 -0.18%
Gold 1,228 -1 -0.08%
Oil 72.90 -0.92 -1.25%
Euro /$1US 1.2660 -0.0040
$1US / Yen 85.2300 -0.3600
Pound / $1US 1.5517 -0.0021

Aud / $1US 0.8917 +0.0053
10yr T-note 2.60 -0.02
2yr T-note 0.49 -0.01


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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-10 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
73. No. Don't laugh....
In tonight's Edinburgh Evening News:

"FRENCH President Nicolas Sarkozy is preparing for his first Cabinet meeting after the summer, today, under pressure to tackle public debt and pension reform. Unions are threatening major strikes in early September over plans to raise retirement age from 60 to 62."

The Tories are planning to raise our retirement age from 65 to 70 in the UK.
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