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47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 10:27 AM
Original message
U.S. anti-Islam protest seen as lift for extremists
Source: New York Times

WASHINGTON Some counterterrorism experts say the anti-Muslim sentiment that has saturated the airwaves and blogs in the debate over plans for an Islamic center near ground zero in Lower Manhattan is playing into the hands of extremists by bolstering their claims that the United States is hostile to Islam.

Opposition to the center by prominent politicians and other public figures in the United States has been covered extensively by the news media in Muslim countries. At a time of concern about radicalization of young Muslims in the West, it risks adding new fuel to Al Qaedas claim that Islam is under attack by the West and must be defended with violence, some specialists on Islamic militancy say.

I know people in this debate dont intend it, but there are consequences for these kinds of remarks, said Brian Fishman, who studies terrorism for the New America Foundation here.

He said that Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born cleric hiding in Yemen who has been linked to several terrorist plots, has been arguing for months in Web speeches and in a new Qaeda magazine that American Muslims face a dark future of ever-worsening discrimination and vilification.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38795716/ns/us_news-the_new... /



Nice job Sarah and Newt.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Who couldn't have seen this coming. Duh.
Idiots.
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Frisbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. Someone please convince me...
that there aren't those WANT a perpetual war with Islam and Islamic nations. Both the Christian right extremist and the MIC would be happy to have a never-ending war on Islam, each for their own sick purposes. And all along, FOX News keeps fanning the flames for them.

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Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. They want to speed along the rapture

As far as I'm concerned, there's no difference between the radical religious element in the U.S. and those overseas.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. if I was a conspiracy theorist - I would be convinced that they are purposely trying to harm America
Edited on Sat Aug-21-10 10:57 AM by Douglas Carpenter
Just imagine the lunacy that many of the same people who advocate more wars in the Middle East are the very same people trying to whip up anti-Muslim hysteria in the U.S. Obviously, if one really did want more military interventions in the Middle East with some sort of imperial ambitions, they would rationally want to win allies in the Arab and Islamic world - not do everything humanly possible to alienate them even more. But just look at who will being appearing at the big anti-Muslim rally in NYC on September 11, 2010 - Two of their prime speakers include John Bolton and Newt Gingrich who will be sharing the stage with the likes of the notorious Dutch Parliamentarian bigot and anti-Muslim extremist, Geert Wilders - an event sponsored by an organization that calls itself, Stop Islamization of America:

http://sioaonline.com/?p=452

If I was a conspiracy theorist, I would conclude that they are intentionally trying to drive America into more wars in the Middle East which they intentionally plan to lose - while hoping to provoke more terrorist attacks on America - to grant them the ability to suspend all considerations of constitutional rights and impose their fascistic order.

But, I am not a conspiracy theorist. I think these people don't have the where-with-all to recognize the self-destructive course they are trying to push America toward. I Think they are just plain nuts.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. It need not be coordinated - extremists need each other

The overall game, in a lot of contexts, is both ends against the middle.

The extremists of 9/11 WANTED to inspire hatred against Muslims, because that hatred results in better recruiting for them.

Our reactionary fearmongers WANT extremists to commit these acts, because it gives them power.

Islam itself is a hostage to the controversy, as are all of us.

The only way out is not to let the bastards on either side win by engaging us in their games.
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47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. We need to refuidiate their games
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Well said
It always bothers me the way people dismiss as paranoid conspiracy theory any explanation for a phenomenon that involves more than one responsible party. People don't need to have secret star chamber meetings in order for their common interests and prejudices to result in similar, but still independent, actions which collectively produce a particular outcome.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. This is one reason why I become frustrated when I hear even one
Democrat weighing in about moving the Center. There should be a clear and definitive message coming from Democratic Party,
we DO NOT tolerate bigotry.


There is no excuse for this, NONE.
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a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. + 1million nt
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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. RIGHT!!
Just like BHO calling for more offshore drilling a few weeks before the BP disaster struck. Thanks for shooting liberals in the foot!

I'm so angry at some democrats these days, I'd like to form "The Progressive Party" and have a platform of -

-Preserving our ever decaying environment
-Equal rights for ALL Americans regardless of EVERYTHING
-Strength through PEACE
-Medicare for All
-SECULAR governmental institutions
-Religious freedom (that includes atheists, agnostics, and all religions)
-Encouraging love and ostracizing hate in our society
-Military for DEFENSIVE purposes only (defense of the homeland, not our interests in far away lands)
-Corporate NON-personhood
-Public funding of elections
-No magic box voting
-New regulations that punish lying to the American people by the American "news" media and political ads
-Reasonable tariffs to give American workers an even playing field
-Punish companies that offshore our jobs, by locking them out of the American marketplace if necessary
-Ensuring that ALL Americans have a living wage and a guaranteed retirement.

I can dream can't I? It's all I have left for crissakes!
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I honestly believe that with public funded elections we will have a solid
chance for meaningful reform. The rest of your list, which I agree with 100%, would likely become reality as a result.

Without that election reform, I am losing hope.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. A lot of good Democrats don't see it as a case of bigotry.
This is too complicated for slogans. We all oppose bigotry, but as Howard Dean said, and he is one of my heroes, we need to stop the confrontation and embrace a compromise.

And as far as terrorists go, they don't need any more excuses or reasons to hate the USA. They hate us already and if that project is completed they will hate us just as much.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I respectfully disagree, Dean is a great guy yet he is dead wrong here..there
is no room to compromise, that only validates the baseless fears and bigotry, This issue means you take the heat and respond back
with educating your constituency. It is not complicated, the Constitution is not a slogan.


I think you under estimate the degree of how our foreign policy and issues like this do indeed fuel more dangerous anti-American
sentiment.
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47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Sorry, but I feel this is not the time for compromise
We need to stop compromising with the right wing. They make demands and we fall back. They destroy everything they touch and we fall back. We need to say this far and no farther.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. But "success" is not about winning over the true radicals ....
Edited on Sun Aug-22-10 08:07 AM by krkaufman
.... it is about constricting their freedom of operation, which requires that we stop alienating moderates.

edit: closing quote from the article... For the first time, anti-Islamic rhetoric has gone mainstream, he said. What this really does is weaken the moderates and undermine their credibility.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. Which just goes to show you, the Republicans and their corporate media propaganda machine don't give
a rat's ass about the troops, not to mention the rest of the American People.

Thanks for the thread, 47of74.
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47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. I didn't think of it originally in that context...
Edited on Sat Aug-21-10 09:46 PM by 47of74
...but you're absolutely right. This is the sort of shit that makes the jobs of our brothers and sisters in Afghanistan that much harder.
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. "I know people in this debate dont intend it"
"I know people in this debate dont intend it, but there are consequences for these kinds of remarks," said Brian Fishman, who studies terrorism for the New America Foundation here.

This Fishman dude must be pretty clueless. This is exactly what they intend. This is part of the "culture war" that the GOP relies on to keep them in power, and their MSM propaganda machine is only too happy to play its part in manufacturing such "controversies" and keeping it going for as long as possible, between "stories" about sarah palin and ACORN.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. Of course, they need terrorism as an issue to keep people scared.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
26. "Security" is the lone booming sector of the economy, now ....
... so I don't see them giving it up w/o a fight.
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LongTomH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. Marginalize a group of people and more of them will turn radical!
So what else is news, Bubby? Hmmmm?
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southmost Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. mission accomplished
.
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ThisThreadIsSatire Donating Member (697 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. The truth is often said in jest -- and
this 'revelation' was published (albeit by a less distinguished source) ten days ago:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/ThisThreadIsS...
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
20. More self-defeating conservatism.
"Islam=terrorism!"

BOOM

"Islam=terrorism!"

BOOM

"Islam=terrorism!"

BOOM

Cut n' paste to infinity.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. Yep, please see...
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
24. Actually, I think there are people in this debate who do intend it
Edited on Sat Aug-21-10 11:42 PM by Turborama
As I said here, maybe they're (Faux) pulling out all the stops to incite another 9/11 on President Obama's watch?

I wouldn't be surprised if Cheney is working in cahoots on this with Ailes, actually. If you look at this Faux website you'll see that they have put more effort into distributing Faux in Pakistan than they have in any other country (48 broadcasters in Pakistan provide Faux, live and unfiltered 24/7 - to be exact). Why do you think that is?

I'm not a tin foiler by any stretch but facts is facts.

(edited to clarify)
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist...but it is implausible to imagine that the likes of John
John Bolton and New Gingrich do not know that they are increasing the risk of more terrorist attacks by intentionally pushing the image of America as enemies of Islam and Muslims - It is also implausible that they don't know that they are increasing the risk to American military personnel and American civilians around the world. They surely must know that.
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