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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:13 AM
Original message
U.S. Finds Most Oil From Spill Poses Little Additional Risk
Source: The New York Times

WASHINGTON The government is expected to announce on Wednesday that three-quarters of the oil from the Deepwater Horizon leak has already evaporated, dispersed, been captured or otherwise eliminated and that much of the rest is so diluted that it does not seem to pose much additional risk of harm.

A government report finds that about 26 percent of the oil released from BPs runaway well is still in the water or onshore in a form that could, in principle, cause new problems. But most is light sheen at the ocean surface or in a dispersed form below the surface, and federal scientists believe that it is breaking down rapidly in both places.

On Tuesday, BP began pumping drilling mud into the well in an attempt to seal it for good. Since the flow of oil was stopped with a cap on July 15, people on the Gulf Coast have been wondering if another shoe was going to drop a huge underwater glob of oil emerging to damage more shorelines, for instance.

Assuming that the governments calculations stand scrutiny, that looks increasingly unlikely. Theres absolutely no evidence that theres any significant concentration of oil thats out there that we havent accounted for, said Jane Lubchenco, head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the lead agency in producing the new report.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/04/science/earth/04oil.h...
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Umm... except there's no mention of the Corexit. "about 26%... is still in the water... that could
...cause more problems." I believe that's the weasel-words for "we don't know what the hell the corexit-broken oil or the corexit itself is going to do."
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. The Corexit broken down oil
remains oil in droplet form. The purpose of disperants is separation - not combination.

If 26% of the Corexit is still in the water then assuming even distribution thoughout the Gulf , given time, that represents one part per 80,000,000 parts of water. That is not a judgement of the situation : just maths.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. Fuck it. Im going to change my oil and dump the water in the stream
Oh wait? Yeah, Im not rich...my oil lives in the real world and thats considered dangerous
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metapunditedgy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'll believe it when I see BP execs, regulators, and "federal scientists" (?) drinking GoM water. nt
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. And eating seafood caught in the mile radius around the well...
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Scarsdale Vibe Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Drinking salt water isn't usually a good idea nt
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yeah. I bet enough of it would kill them.
:think:

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. I recall: "The Gulf will bounce back!" . . . per Obama
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
8. If you believe the "Oil Evaporated"....
I have some nice dry land in Florida to sell you.

They really take Americns for fools.
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Scarsdale Vibe Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Of course oil doesn't evaporate, which is why it has no smell.
Approximately 40-60% of the light crude that was spilled would have evaporated over time according to numerous studies that have been performed on oil evaporation rates over the years. According to the government report 25% of the oil has evaporated, and that number isn't bigger because some oil was captured, burned, skimmed, or broken down by bacteria which was aided by Corexit. Take away all those factors, and you're left with around the expected 40% evaporation rate.

If it had been heavy crude leaking in a colder environment then the numbers would be much worse.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. The volatile portions of the oil evaporate. That is why they are called volatile.
Portions of the oil do evaporate, and presumably, the chemical nature of those evaporated portions changes as the evaporation takes place. My question is what does the evaporated oil change to? Just curious. I doubt that it is dangerous after evaporation. If evaporated oil remained extremely dangerous after evaporation, people would not be able to work in gas stations or at refineries. They do. It's dangerous work, but people do work in those situations sometimes for many years. And, of course, people live in areas in which crude oil is being pumped out of the ground. In fact I believe that we have productive oil wells right here in Los Angeles.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Its a well known fact..
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 05:10 AM by DCBob
from article "Evaporation of Oil Spills" in Journal ASCE..

Evaporation is the most important change that most oil spills undergo. In a few days, light crudes can evaporate as much as 75% of the starting oil mass andmedium crudes up to 40%. Heavy or residual oils may only evaporate to the extentof 10% in the first few days following a spill.

http://www.boemre.gov/tarprojects/120/120BG.PDF
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BillH76 Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
66. Then it pollutes the atmosphere. (n/t)
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. so do you every time you drive your car.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
70. Don't forget about my bridge forsale too.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. wow ...all those millions of gallons have disappeared !
i guess this was`t such a big disaster after all.


well boys and girls --it`s time to go back to deep drilling!
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
72. It's magic. POOF!
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hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
78. David Copperfield is in charge of the cleanup!
The initial flow rate estimates were around 5,000 barrels a day. The numbers kept ballooning upward until they reached the 60,000-100,000/day range. This looks like the same kind of wishful thinking/low ball estimate that BP promulgated at the start of the blowout.

And, by all means, take your eye off the Corexit.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. Article about the Ixtoc spill, apparently area is recovering nicely.
So says McClatchy, anyhow.
Worth a read.

"Thirty-one years since the worst oil spill in North American history blanketed 150 miles of Texas beach, tourists noisily splash in the surf and turtles drag themselves into the dunes to lay eggs.

"You look around and it's like the spill never happened,'' shrugs Tunnell, a marine biologist.
"There's a lot of perplexity in it for many of us."

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/12/95793/ixtoc-the-g...
Thirty-one years since the worst oil spill in North American history blanketed 150 miles of Texas beach, tourists noisily splash in the surf and turtles drag themselves into the dunes to lay eggs.

"You look around and it's like the spill never happened,'' shrugs Tunnell, a marine biologist. "There's a lot of perplexity in it for many of us.
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postulater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
47. Did they dump Corexit on that spill?
It's the dispersant and its' residuals that I am interested in. It is good that the oil can break down like it did off Mexico. But does the Corexit?
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #47
81. Yeah, I have the same question.
right now they are making a big deal of having seafood visually inspected for traces of OIL.
I have no idea of the long range effects of Corexit in the food chain, it can't be good, methinks.

Maybe this is a covert population control plan, or unintended benefit to TPTB, who knows. :shrug:
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:57 AM
Response to Original message
14. Thats very good news but the gloom and doomers will never believe it..
Seems that had their hearts set on a mega disaster.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Exactly...
I think this is because many of them don't want to believe it. It doesn't fit into their worldview that EVERYTHING is going to hell in a handbasket. Some of the ridiculous predictions on here about how the Gulf would die, Gulf coast beaches destroyed for years, a worldwide environmental disaster of epic proportions that would ultimately destroy (at minimum) most Gulf sealife as we know it, etc, etc. There is just a certain segments of people that want the end of everything we know to get here as fast as possible - maybe they think that is the only way things can change in the direction they want.

I think it is kinda like the crazy survivalist who gathers all their end-times gear and eagerly awaits each new crisis with predictions that this will be the one that will teach the people and validate their survivalist planning.

Now to find out the oil is evaporating or otherwise rapidly being cleaned up just blows up their predictions of a much greater disaster. Next they will turn to conspiracy theories which set the stage for the next "world as we know it ending" crisis.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Its troubling that so many even in our own party have these bizarre irrational viewpoints..
It affects our credibility when we argue about other legitimate crisis issues.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Yup...
I agree.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
57. Have they found a way to resurrect all of the dead wildlife?
Oh right, they don't matter since they don't have commercial value, so their deaths don't count as a disaster.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. Have you found any more ways to make a negative out of positive?
geez.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Where's the positive part?
The needless death of oil workers? The needless death of wildlife and the destruction of ecological diversity in what was once one of the world's richest ecosystems? The needless contribution to global warming? The needless harm done to the economy and way of life of an entire region of the country? Oh right, you've probably got a Hummer you need to get back to driving, so you need to downplay the importance of environmental disasters so as to allow you to continue guiltlessly consuming three times as much energy per capita as the rest of the world's inhabitants. Geez indeed.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. If you cant tell I cant help you..
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 01:45 PM by DCBob
geez again.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. No, you can't.
Because the harm has already been done and cannot ever be repaired, not by you, not by BP, not by the government, not even by God. I'd invite you to come visit us in New Orleans and fill your lungs with the benzene and toluene your good news has generated; to pick your way amongst the corpses on our once lovely beaches (just be sure you wear your hazmat suit!); and to talk to some of the fishermen who for generations lived happily and prosperously on the Gulf's bounty (I'm pretty sure there must be a few who haven't committed suicide yet), if for no other reason than that our economy desperately needs your tourism dollars - you'd be amazed how few people want to spend their vacations visiting a toxic waste site. But all that might bring you down and dampen your enthusiasm for your good news. And, god knows, we wouldn't want anyone to have to feel badly about their energy gluttony that brought about this catastrophe. Nope, nothing to see here, move along, just a minor blip, certainly nothing to be alarmed about, everyone just go home and turn on every light in the house, crank the a/c with the windows open, and pump some more gas into your gas guzzler!
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. I wont dispute your grim descriptions of the situation there..
but my point, which I am sure you wont agree with, is that it could have been worse, much much worse. Some of us see that as a positive.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. Isn't this bad enough?
Okay, it could have been worse: the planet could have exploded. Is it a cause celebre that it didn't? I think your expectations are waaaay too low when you're prepared to rejoice that a catastrophe isn't even more catastrophic. I'm not being sarcastic, I honestly think this is a real problem: we will tolerate absolutely anything. One of the scariest stories I read about in the papers was about a woman who went to the beach with her child and took a bottle of Goo Gone with her. Knowing that she and her child would be covered with toxic petrochemical waste, she just adapted and did her best to clean the tar balls off of herself and her kid after sunbathing. In some parts of the world, the air quality has become so bad that people literally have to wear gas masks in order to go outside on some days. I cannot even begin to conceive of the mentality that approaches a door to go outside and, calmly and without complaint, dons a gas mask merely in order to be able to breath. Is it good news that on some other days, the air quality is such that one can get away without a gas mask and wear nothing more than a face mask? I'm sorry, but at that point, you have become a sheep. If you do not have the sense to complain when you are forced to wear a gas mask to breath, you truly are a lemming and will unflinchingly walk right off a cliff to your doom. You are too spineless to deserve to breath clean air and you deserve exactly what you get. I pray that will never be said about me.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. I guess I must explain it... the "worse" was the Gulf is not dead, the beaches are not ruined,
the wetlands are not destroyed, there arent millions of dead animals washing up on shores. Yes, its a bad situation but the worse case scenario that many feared and expected did not happen. I think that is cause to celebrate.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Well, then I have more "good news" for you
MalWart has gas masks on sale and I recommend that you stock up because, if the greatest outrage you can muster in response to a dead zone the size of Massachusetts, beaches covered in tar balls, decimated wetlands, and hundreds of thousands of dead animals washing up on shore is "Gosh, aren't we fortunate what it wasn't worse!" you most assuredly will need them one day.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. There are dead zones every year in the Gulf.. this year's DZ extends from MS to Galveston, TX.
The BP well is a very long way from Galveston and there have been no reports of the oil moving that direction. According to scientists its unlikely these dead zones have anyting to do with the BP spill. But that's surely not what you will choose to believe.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #77
82. Corrections
Dead zones in the Gulf do indeed occur every year - thanks to human pollution. The primary causes of these alarming and unnatural dead zones has to date been the toxic byproducts of industrial agriculture and sewage flowing into the Gulf. That an environmental crime has been occurring for decades does not, repeat not, make it a good thing. Secondly, the dead zone this year is more than twice the size of previous years' dead zones. Three, you are mistaken in believing that scientists consider it unlikely that the sudden dramatic increase in the size of the dead zone may be attributed to the oil spill. If you were to read more closely, you would note that government scientists are unwilling to state that the increase is or is not due to the oil spill. In case you are perhaps unfamiliar with the way government research is conducted, the researches submit their findings to a committee of politically appointed department heads, who determine whether the report supports the administration's current policy priorities. They delete anything that they perceive does not support the administration's position and then attribute the edited remains of the original report to the researchers who prepared it. Given the sensitive political nature of the BP oil spill, it's a safe bet that said politically appointed department heads have taken a special interest in anything being said by government scientists on the topic. That the final report says neither yea or nay, but simply remains mute on the subject, is therefore a very, very long way indeed from "scientists" deeming it "unlikely these dead zones have anything to do with the BP spill."

The problem I have with this don't-worry-be-happy myopia of yours is that evidently nothing short of the extermination of all life on earth will be anything less than a cause for celebration for people like you, at which point, it will be far too late to do anything to prevent it. Remember back in the 70s when the US was gearing up for conservation and joining the rest of the world in adopting a responsible energy policy? And then Ronnie Raygun came along with his don't-worry-be-happy message and everyone went back to their usual, gluttonous, conspicuous consumption of energy? Just imagine how much less of a bind we'd be in now if we had behaved responsibly instead of following brainless Ronnie's bad example. As far as I can see, the one and only miniscule sliver of "good news" to be had from the oil spill is that it may finally wake Americans up out of their self-centered complacency and inspire in them a desire to at last do something responsible for a change. And here you are, doing your damndest to put everyone back to sleep again. Thanks bunches, Ronnie would be proud of you.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. your "corrections" are more like illusions and misrepresentations...
Enjoy wallowing in your pessimism and negativity.. but forgive me if I dont join you.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Sorry to spoil your happy dillusions
Correction 1: Human pollution is the primary cause of oceanic dead zones, a serious problem for marine life.

Spreading Dead Zones and Consequences for Marine Ecosystems
Robert J. Diaz and Rutger Rosenberg
Science 15 August 2008: Vol. 321. no. 5891, pp. 926 - 929
Dead zones in the coastal oceans have spread exponentially since the 1960s and have serious consequences for ecosystem functioning. The formation of dead zones has been exacerbated by the increase in primary production and consequent worldwide coastal eutrophication fueled by riverine runoff of fertilizers and the burning of fossil fuels. Enhanced primary production results in an accumulation of particulate organic matter, which encourages microbial activity and the consumption of dissolved oxygen in bottom waters. Dead zones have now been reported from more than 400 systems, affecting a total area of more than 245,000 square kilometers, and are probably a key stressor on marine ecosystems.



Correction 2: This year's dead zone is larger than those in past years.
and Correction 3: Scientists are not saying that there is no connection between the growth of the dead zone and the oil spill.

Dead zone in the Gulf one of the largest ever
The Associated Press
Monday, August 2, 2010; 11:12 AM

NEW ORLEANS -- Scientists say this year that the "dead zone" area that forms every summer in the Gulf of Mexico is one of the largest ever measured.

The large area of low oxygen that chokes marine life comes in addition to the massive BP oil spill.

Microbes that eat the oil can deplete oxygen in the water. But the researchers who measure the dead zone couldn't say there is a connection between the spill and the dead zone's size.

They say the dead zone is roughly the size of Massachusetts, or at least 7,722 square miles. The largest ever measured was just over 8,000 square miles in 2001.

The dead zone forms every year when bacteria feeds on algae blooms and uses up oxygen. The blooms are caused by the nutrient-rich waters from rivers that carry farm and urban runoff into the Gulf.


Do you also require references to Reagan's energy policies?
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. I can assure you that your twisted deranged viewpoint of this crisis has no impact on me..
over and out.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. Of course not
Edited on Thu Aug-05-10 05:13 PM by primavera
What would the Washington Post or Science magazine or any of the other publications that are all saying the same thing know about it? Or, for that matter, the people who are living here and experiencing it firsthand? Well, at least you finally acknowledged it as a "crisis." From the way you've been going on, anyone would think it was some joyous, festive holiday we were discussing. Thank you for that much at least.
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LTX Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Oh take a pill.
Your over the top drama isn't helping to clean up, and sure as hell isn't helping New Orleans. The city isn't the reincarnation of Bhopal, for christ's sake, and saying shit like "the harm has already been done and cannot ever be repaired, not by you, not by BP, not by the government, not even by God" is not only flat out wrong, it's flat out malicious. Commercial fishing is reopening east of the Mississippi, you don't need a gas mask to breathe in New Orleans, and if you really gave a damn about fisherman and New Orleans businesses, you wouldn't be spreading around your own toxic crap about conditions down here.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. Easy to say when it's not your home, huh?
I happen to live here. I have to breath the air that now stinks of benzene and toluene. I'm seeing and hearing everyday about the impact upon the economy. Where are you that you speak with such certainty about conditions here? No, it's not Bhopal or Chernobyl, no one ever said it was. But it's bad enough, and your dismissive attitude is incredibly insulting to those of us who live here and are suffering the consequences of your indifference. Try living here and see how cavalier you are then. Until then, why don't you try refraining from judging those who are experiencing first hand things of which you know nothing?
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LTX Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. I split my time between Houston and New Orleans.
And if you really think New Orleans is a sulfurous hell, then move. There's still a lot of work to be done, and it is in fact getting done. But it's not getting done by whiners and doom-sayers, whose only contribution to date has been to convince the world that Gulf seafood is poison and New Orleans is a perfect shithole. Thanks for your contribution, but it would be great if you would now go piss somewhere else.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. You gotta explain this to me
Edited on Thu Aug-05-10 06:56 PM by primavera
If you live here, then you know that the air now smells, that the wetlands have been badly damaged, that the beaches are covered in tar balls, that the oyster beds have been decimated, that the fishing industry has been crippled, that the tourism industry has suffered a major blow, and yet none of this pisses you off? In God's name, why? Harm has been done, and for no reason other than greed. Don't you care? If someone comes along and pisses all over you, are you just going to say thank you and yell at anyone who suggests that you have a legitimate cause for being angry? I'm sorry, I take back what I said about it not being your home, but, from one New Orleanian to another, I have to say, I don't understand your passivity at all. Were you equally forgiving when the levees broke and the shrub and Heckuvajob Brownie left New Orleans twisting in the wind with nothing but their dicks in their hands?
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LTX Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #90
92. Of course I'm angry.
My business is restaurant supply. I've seen not just my business, but my client's businesses hurt badly. But go back and read your own posts. For crying out loud, your overkill in describing the situation is destructive in and of itself. The fact of the matter is that commercial fishing is re-opening, and nobody has to run screaming from a New Orleans hell. It's hard enough as it is. The last thing we need is a pack of hyperbolic Cassandra's telling the world that the Gulf and New Orleans are forever and irreparably a toxic wasteland. They're not, and I for one am cautiously optimistic that the recovery will be considerably quicker than predicted.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. Okay, I understand where you're coming from
Edited on Thu Aug-05-10 08:55 PM by primavera
But can you understand where I'm coming from? Our own beloved DINO Mary Landrieu, whose primary campaign contributor happens to be the oil and gas industry, and a great many others like her, are champing at the bits to sweep under the rug the fact that BP engaged in unsafe drilling practices and got permits to drill nevertheless, so that we can get back to drilling, baby, drilling. My fear is that, if the scope of the damage is downplayed, it will make it just that much easier for the oil industry and their pet politicians to go right back to business as usual, at the risk of repeating the same mistakes that led us to the BP oil spill. The federal government hasn't denied a drilling permit application in over ten years, and the state of Louisiana hasn't denied an oil company a permit ever, no questions asked. Oversight of the oil and gas industry has proven to be, for all intents and purposes, nonexistent. I consider that unacceptable. The Obama administration is talking about lifting the moratorium on deep water drilling early, yet none of the other deep water drilling rigs have yet undergone any safety inspections to ensure that they won't experience problems of precisely the same variety that Deepwater Horizon had. Obama just put an additional 1.8 million acres of sensitive habitat in Alaska up on the auction block for drilling.

Yes, I am concerned about the economic prosperity of New Orleans and the rest of the Gulf Coast, and I don't wish to undermine the region's efforts to recover from this disaster. But neither do I wish to see complacency allow this sort of thing to happen again. Ever. Not to us, not to Alaska, not to anyone. So, yes, of course I wish to see my home rebuilt. But I also want to see the motherfucking arsonist who burned it down in the first place caught, tried, and convicted so that he can't just come back and burn it down again as soon as I'm done rebuilding, or go out and burn down somebody else's home. And in courts of both law and public opinion, one wins few points by reassuring everyone that there's been no harm done.

Part of our disagreement here though probably reflects differing valuation systems, and there we will likely have to agree to disagree. While it may not have any economic impact, the yet unmeasurable loss of marine species in the Gulf is, according to my personal belief system, a consequence of the oil spill that alone is worthy of outrage, even were there no other harm done, and that is one harm that, as I said, not even God can fix. While the cause of rebuilding the Gulf Coast's economy and businesses may indeed not be helped by trumpeting the extent of the damage done to the environment, the interests of wildlife may perhaps be better served by doing just that. But I understand that few people share my personal conviction that wildlife enjoy a moral right, if sadly not a legal one, to exist that outweighs our right to engage in commercial activities and/or exploit valuable natural resources. Like I said, we'll probably just have to agree to disagree on that one. By all means, feel free to call me a crazy treehugger - everyone else does and I take no offense. :-)

In any case, thanks for the explanation. Have a good one.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. Is this from the Onion? n/t
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 06:22 AM by truth2power
edit> typo
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Yeahyeah Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
19. Going to guess it takes a lot of campaign donation to get this kind of "government report".
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
20. Great news. every day the news is getting better.
Who knew????
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
22. So why is Prince William Sound still polluted with oil?
This is a whitewash. Millions upon millions of gallons have simply evaporated? Well fuck. Why were we so worried then?
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #22
46. Very different circumstances...
The ship wrecked right offshore in an enclosed area, where as the gulf oil spill occured miles offshore in very deep water. Also, the incredibly warm waters of the Gulf provide for much more bacteria that could eat up the oil faster, whereas Prince William Sound is in a much colder climate and bacteria will take longer to break it down because of that.

As for why many were so worried; it's because we didn't know what was going to happen, and to an extent still don't. But from what we can see so far, it won't be quite like the Exxon spill.
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Scarsdale Vibe Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. Higher temperature also leads to higher evaporation rates.
And the difference between the heavy crude that spilled from the Valdez and the light crude that spilled in the Gulf is significant. The oil in the Gulf has less heavy metals and shorter hydrocarbon chains that evaporate more quickly and are also easier to break down by bacteria.

I'm disappointed to see so many people at DU disappointed that the environmental impact will be less than was originally feared.
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. I think some of it is politics...
that is, if this spill was incredibly devastating, it might have some impact on getting some good cap and trade legislation passed. Unfortunately, I don't think it would have helped anyways, as we all saw from the reaction to the spill before we knew how devastating it would be.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
23. So how soon till deep water drilling resumes? Isn't that the real purpose of this "report"? nt
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sasquuatch55 Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. You can turn over rocks on Prince William Sound and still find oil and tar there!
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 08:45 AM by sasquuatch55
nt


edit for sp.
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nalnn Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Luckily
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 09:02 AM by nalnn
We are lucky I guess some would say. Had this gusher happened in the Mississippi Sound, or any other sound for that matter, we'd be completely devastated and for decades to come. As it is, we can only wait and see what the effects of the oil in the water column and on the sea bed along with the Corexit and whatever by-products it degrades into will be.

I, for one, am glad it wasn't worse. I am an optimistic cynic. For me, the Gulf is 'half full' or should I say "about 26% full"?


EDITED for percentage.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Yup.
Over 20 years later and less than 4% has ever actually been cleaned up.

"look at the pristine beaches! the oil is all gone!!! but don't turn over the rocks!"

kinda just puts a fine point on our image conscious society.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Forthwith Its More "Change we can Believe In"
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
25. I'm stunned at how brazen all of this has been.
When someone will tell such a lazy, half-formed lie directly to your face, the level of respect is quite low, indeed.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
27. Gee, I never knew the largest marine spill in history was so inconsequential.
4.9 million barrels, plus or minus 10 percent was dumped into the Gulf. That estimate makes the Deepwater Horizon disaster the largest marine spill in history.

But don't worry, it's all taken care of.
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NoNothing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
56. It was large, no doubt, but the Earth is large too
The Gulf of Mexico is about 62,000 square miles and has an average depth of 7,218 feet. According to the EPA, it contains about 24,000,000,000,000,000 bbl of water. So even assuming that no oil was recovered, burned, evaporated, or eaten, that's about 1 part in 408 million, about the same as a single teaspoon of oil in an Olympic-sized swimming pool.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #56
73. Well the universe is large too so who cares if the world gets destroyed.
:crazy:
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
30. Well lookie here, it seems the crabs found some.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I guess those crabs are ok with it.

Thanks for the thread, alp.
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Scarsdale Vibe Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
31. This sucks, I fill an emotional void in my life with sensationalistic news stories.
If things aren't as bad as I was led to believe, and the Valdez disaster had 100x the environmental impact, then how can I inflate my sense of self-worth by vicariously "Living Through an Important Moment In History."
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
32.  US says 74 pct of BP spill oil gone
Source: Reuters

WASHINGTON, Aug 4 (Reuters) - Nearly three-fourths of oil from the BP <BP.L><BP.N> spill is gone from the Gulf of Mexico, with 26 percent remaining as a sheen or tarballs, buried in sediment or washed ashore, U.S. scientists said on Wednesday.

"It is estimated that burning, skimming and direct recovery from the wellhead removed one quarter (25 percent) of the oil released from the wellhead," the scientists said in the report "BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Budget : What Happened to the Oil?"

Another 25 percent naturally evaporated or dissolved and 24 percent was dispersed, either naturally or "as the result of operations," into small droplets, the report said.

The rest of the estimated 4.9 million barrels of crude spilled into the Gulf after the April 20 rig explosion that triggered the leak is either on or just beneath the water's surface as "light sheen or weathered tarballs," has washed ashore where it may have been collected, or is buried in sand and sediments at the sea bottom.

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N04225621.htm
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. not sure that "dispersed" is the same as "gone" - sounds like spin to me
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. 99 pct of my faith in the federal Government is gone.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. 100% BS
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. somebody is telling 'porkies'
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. BWAHAHAHAHAHAH ...yea right. Out of sight out of mind huh? POOF ...its gone.
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another saigon Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. why mess with what works?
sad. :(
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. Worked for whom? Would the ecology and food chain agree?
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another saigon Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. I forgot
a low post count targets me as a nogoodnik here. :eyes:

I thought I was stating the obvious. Visions of lollipops and dew drops are all that americans receive as 'news' because it works to keep them uninformed.
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
58. I'm skeptical. Not of you, but in the result of dispersement on bio-culture.
You are right to state your feelings. If you are happy or upset, we are here to respond as we feel. :pals: :fistbump:

We bump each other around because we have passion for our democracy. I learned long ago that it is a joy to have a post that draws response.

Keep us thinking and growing. Be brave and give it back we can take it.
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I don't believe them.
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
40. Oil spills are actually safe.
In fact, we'd be better off having more of them! And the only way to do that is to drill more, right? It's all so obvious.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #40
91. Yes, that certainly does seem to be the prevailing attitude around here
I'm astonished to see it, but that seems to be what a lot of people here think.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
41. What a big steaming pile of BULLSHIT,
bunch of sorry fucking liars. Our own government. Fuck them.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
42. I agree with posts 1 - 9...
Yep...
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NoNothing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
44. All scientists are liars and my own common sense knows better
Except when they agree with me, of course.
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postulater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
45. And moving on. Today scientists have discovered that Corexit
in homeopathic quantities is beneficial as a weight loss supplement. BP has begun licensing multi-level distributors for its' new product, GulfExit. BP says this will be a boon to those who have recently lost their jobs to the low shrimp population. BP is proud to be doing its' part in solving the nation's growing obesity problem.

BP- Helping America Lose Weight (and everything else).
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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #32
49. Gone from the surface maybe...
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #32
51. "24 percent was dispersed, either naturally or as the result of operations," i.e. Corexit hid it
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 11:46 AM by wordpix
there is no telling what the long term effects of oil + Corexit in small droplets will do to the food chain b/c Corexit has never been used in these concentrations before.
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
52. Is it just me... or does 74% sound ridiculously precise?
They don't have a clue how much leaked out in the first place, how could you even guess at the percent that was "gone" now to that level of specificity?
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #52
62. estimates.. of course..
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Baclava Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #62
79. So 26% of 5 million = 1,300,000 barrels - over twice as much as the Exxon Valdez
And you can bet that's the most conservative estimate of the spill itself and the "residual".

Toss in another 3 million gallons of dispersant and hold me back while I jump for joy.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #52
74. Actually it's 74.94710582731%
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
54. Meanwhile private corporate donations to politicians are at an ALL TIME HIGH!
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 11:48 AM by superconnected
BP understated it all along, now the government is helping them understate it. It's like a marriage between politicians and corporations!
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. That's nothing new
Government's been helping to cover up the extent of the crime, obstructing access for journalists, and parroting the oil industry's discredited platitudes since day one. And what else can we expect? The oil and gas industry bought them mind, body, and soul decades ago.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
55. Riiight. Sure.
Don't believe a word of it.

Lies...too many being told to ever find what's true or not....but I seriously doubt that they have accounted for ALL of the oil. Really?
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
60. it's magic! The oil just dsappeared! .... below the surface. Burrowing crabs are finding it....
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
61. Now THERE'S some smart marketing and PR!
Edited on Wed Aug-04-10 12:53 PM by tom_paine
Brilliant! Now, let the easily disappeared, silenced by public relations M$M propaganda cancer deaths, economic and other harms begin! As long as the horror is drawn out so it doesn't happen all at once, the problem is easily manageable by current Corporate M$M protocols.

No one will ever notice, no one will ever hear. The few that do notice will be statistically insignificant in number, and thus can be easily ignored or shouted down with PR Astroturf, if need be. Edited out of the National Dialogue, like a liberal antiwar protest numbering in the millions, as if it never happened.

74% gone. Wow, and here I was thinking that oil and Corexit would have to obey the laws of chemistry and other pointy-headed intellectual lying Lib'rul science.

Our government is now wholly and fully in the mold of the 1972 Soviet Union when it comes to "big stories" (i.e. stories where the hurt is so widespread they cannot be disappeared right off).

Simply put, trust our corporate government and their Corporate-Owned M$M as much as you would trust the 1972 Soviet Government and their Communist-owned M$M.

And yes, it really is as simple as that. Embarassing for our nation and people that so few seem to have figured this out.

It truly does suck being among the first to notice things. I so very much wish my powers of denial were more average rather than being so stunted and puny.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-04-10 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
80. I'd feel a little more encouraged if Obama decided to go to one of the
nice Alabama resorts on his vacation - rather than steering clear and heading to Martha's Vineyard...

http://www.mvtimes.com/marthas-vineyard/article.php?id=...
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-05-10 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
94. i remain suspicious that this is bullshit.
And I'm surprised, even lately, at the number of posters here who read this, accept it, and believe it wholeheartedly. Because they know that our government would never lie.

I want this to be true. But I don't believe it.

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