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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 03:53 PM
Original message
BP Oil Spill: White House Intervenes After Coast Guard Stops Two More Oil-Sucking Barges
Source: ABC News

-----

"The Coast Guard came and shut them down," Jindal said. "You got men on the barges in the oil, and they have been told by the Coast Guard, 'Cease and desist. Stop sucking up that oil.'"

A Coast Guard representative told ABC News that it shares the same goal as the governor.

"We are all in this together. The enemy is the oil," said Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Dan Lauer.

But the Coast Guard ordered the stoppage because of reasons that Jindal found frustrating. The Coast Guard needed to confirm that there were fire extinguishers and life vests on board, and then it had trouble contacting the people who built the barges.

-----

According to Plaquemines Parish officials, the White House found out about the boats being halted and spoke to the Coast Guard, informing them that from this point forward the Coast Guard can not interfere with cleanup operations, only make suggestions on safety concerns. Within a few hours, the barges were back in operation.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bp-oil-spill-gov-bobby-jindals...
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. I see the Coast Guard's position, trying to ensure safety for the workers, but the
WH did the right thing. These are extraordinary circumstances.

I'm glad the WH was actually made aware. Sometimes I wonder if they hear half of what we do regarding the problems.

Next is to allow access to reporters to the beaches.
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deathrind Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Yup....
Edited on Fri Jun-18-10 06:37 PM by deathrind
About the reporters. However about the time one of these barges catches fire, that can't be put out due to no fire extinguishers and sinks drowning people due to no life vests people and the gov. will be screaming about how could the Coast Guard be so derelict in their duty...

1st rule for any response to any incident... do not become part of the problem.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
36. Bingo! The Coast Guard should be at a minimum allowed to
inspect the barges before they start their work.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #36
68. CRIMINAL
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #68
83. K&R
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
40. Yup, but, too late by the time ship is in Gulf -- should be checked out beforehand...!!
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
43. the barges are already there, the workers already on them and the oil in the water with them
WTF.

federal agencies have a remarkable amount of discretion regarding how they do inspections and how heavily to act.

if this isn't one of those times, what is?
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ShadowLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
45. Stopping them and leaving them waiting for orders out at sea won't help that
When the barge is already out in the water you might as well just say, "ok, we'll check it tomorrow before we leave", or send someone with nothing important to do to make sure that the boat has that stuff so you know if it's even an issue.
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #45
69. Agree. Check them BEFORE they leave port.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
49. Thank goodness the Coast Guard is not derelict in their duties! Thank you all for being competent
and looking out for our safety.

We just need to learn to communicate before we get all
stressed and strained. 

Its an action oriented item. 
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
82. inspection is fine...
like you say, that is what the coast guard is for. But why do they have to contact the people who built the craft?
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. Mark my words!!!
There is going to be an accident or there will be folks who get sick or hurt after this and Jindal along with everyone on the right will blame Obama for not looking out for the safety of those helping with the clean up!


Obama will be blamed like he already is for whatever it is that goes wrong despite the fact he is doing all he can...Could you imagine if he would have pushed BP aside like many wanted he would have been blamed for not being able to stop the leak...BECAUSE NO ONE CAN! I know that had to of played a role in allowing BP to remain in charge. Everyone familiar with these types of leaks knew from the start it would not get plugged and a relief well is the only chance they have at stopping the leak...And that is why Obama made them drill TWO!

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Clean up workers don't have the gear they need or training . . . and by the time a ship
is in the Gulf it's a bit late to be checking for fire extinguisher, etal!!
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. That is my point...
Folks are screaming DO SOMETHING! So, in order to get stuff done at the rate to keep complaints to minimum then there is not enough time to properly train people.


The complaints against Obama about the oil spill are like complaining that Obama did not prevent a tornado from destroying houses...In both cases there is nothing humans can do to prevent damage...However, the press will say Obama is not doing enough! Not to mention that most of the folks in the Gulf do not like Obama anyway! Like Jindal who is using this disaster to attack Obama.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. Obama is showing up and taking action and so is BP. And we need to keep pressing for knowledgeable
media who are able to be investigative without being
ostracized. 
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #44
61. Well . . . wait . . . you're mixing in different issues . . .
Yes -- clean up crews should be trained and have appropriate gear -- and BP has to be

responsible for any ill effects to health.

Secondly, we're almost 60 days into this thing -- lots of time to have thought most of

this stuff out.

The "complaints against Obama" rest on the fact that he permitted and pushed more drilling

permits. I think his guy Salarzar either wasn't aware that they were doing this at very

dangerous levels -- 1 mile down -- or gave a nod to it. But as I understand it there was

no approval to drill that deeply in the ocean -- the depth is a major factor in not being

able to shut this thing down.

And to the contrary -- there was a great deal we could have done "to prevent this damage."

Remember that Olberman and Rachel Maddow are part of the "press." They've been rightly

critical of Obama's lack of action -- and I've certainly been critical. Obama was asleep

at the beginning of this.

And far too trusting of the oil industry -- which has corrupted government with its wealth --

and corrupted the government agencies which are supposed to be supervising the industry.

It's nice if you like the guy -- but all of this is about NATURE and democracy and the well

being of our citizens -- not Obama!

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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #61
71. Obama is far too trusting of business period.
Look how he trusted those banksters.

Most people here were very, very suspicious of them and thought that they weren't telling the truth about what they had done and what they would do if bailed out.

Obama seemed to believe every word they said and gave them every thing they wanted.

I don't think he learned much from that and took BP's word on this terrible disaster for many weeks.

He also appointed Salazar to the environmentally sensitive position of interior secretary knowing that Salazar's reputation on the environment was not good. He really should have appointed someone much better and stuck Salazar at commerce or something if he felt that he had to appoint Salazar to something.
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #71
78. Thats the best view of the problem. It's gullibility, not three-dimensional chess that has been
driving his actions. I am not sure if I would prefer gullibility, or complicity.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #71
85. Completely agree wih your comments . . . .
but even more --

How could Obama possibly say any of this . . .

"Oil rigs today don't spill" -- "The Gulf will bounce back!"

I have to say I'm not naive, either, but we all have a long way to go -- all of us --

in recognizing the true corruption and criminality of the oil industry and other corporations.

Not much different from organized crime -- if at all!!

:)
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Jawja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #44
70. The GOP press is shrilling "Obama is not doing enough!"
because they are afraid of losing the votes in the Gulf states to the Democrats. They've got to focus blame on Obama for SOMETHING in order to keep the spotlight off the failure of Government by Republicans.
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #70
91. Another thing many folks in the press...
Edited on Sun Jun-20-10 09:20 AM by SkyDaddy7
seem to just ignore...Most of those people who are being impacted the hardest hated Obama prior to this and so the Republicans doing what they do best are using this to their advantage!

I know, you are not suppose to criticize the victims but in this case I am not criticizing I am just pointing out a HUGE FACT or source of some of the rage down there. Plus, this spill is so huge that blaming Obama for not doing enough is like blaming Obama for not doing enough to prevent damage in tornado or hurricane! There simply is not a way to prevent all or even most of the oil from damaging the coastline & the wildlife.

Now, Obama should be blamed if he does not do enough to help the people of the Gulf get compensated for their losses...That chapter is off to a good start in my opinion with Obama forcing BP to create a $20 Billion account. The Republicans are already trying to find ways to help BP behind the scene by blocking legislation designed to do away with the $75 Million cap...All while "ACTING" like they did not agree with Barton's apology to BP. Whatever!
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #70
101. Dems should get smart and throw that right back at repuke govs & congressmen
the same ones who take millions in oil money and then let the multinationals rule the Gulf Coast as they wish.
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pezDispenser Donating Member (443 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #24
62. you again
what's it like to live your life looking for things to be pissed off about? I bet it helps you identify the good guys and the bad guys when they have letters behind their names. Jindal raised a legitimate point that Obama addressed. Man not everything is us vs. them.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
86. Is Obama making sure even at this late point that clean up crews have appropriate gear?
Protected if there are health risks?

Is Obama making sure that our Coast Guard is protecting the weaters and health and

safety of coastal towns -- and not catering to BP or working for BP???

This well is 5,000 feet/1 mile down -- much farther down than they were supposed to drill --

that's the complication. So far it hasn't been plugged -- Kucinich is right in asking question.

STOP worrying about Obama's PR -- it's nature that's at stake -- the planet -- democracy --

not Obama's political career!
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #86
93. I never said otherwise...
Yes people should have the proper gear and they need training on how to use it properly & how to handle the toxic crap as well...This takes time! However, the press does not bother to talk about this they just want to say nothing is being done. Then they give Jindal a microphone to complain without ever asking him if he is worried about the safety of those going out on the barges!!!! Then when they cut corners to get folks out there cleaning the press and others will complain that there is a lack of safety! There is NOTHING Obama can do that is correct in this situation, NOTHING!

Yeah, let us just sit back and watch the GOP use this oil spill to damage Obama & the Democratic Party and come November the GOP will be running congress! WONDERFUL IDEA!!

I know or at least HOPE LIKE HELL you would not want to see a GOP controlled congress...So, I have to assume you just have not thought past today and how not fighting back against the attacks being thrown at Obama & the Democrats might be important. I am 100% sure nature, the planet, democracy and the most important part you forgot in your rant, THE PEOPLE OF THE GULF, will be in much worse shape if the GOP controls one or both houses of congress.

YES, it is important to ask questions but one has to keep the big picture in mind as well! To just pile on Obama because it happens to be the cool thing right now is wrong just like not asking questions is wrong!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #93
95. The "big picture" is stopping off-shore drilling and restoring 26 year Moritorium --
You're watching too much TV -- turn it off!

And, stop approaching everything with fear of GOP on your mind --

Fear computer voting which Dems are doing nothing about -- evidently because

they "fear" that if the public got focused on how corrupted our election processes are

that Democrats would stop voting!

Fear the many questionable "wins" of the Repugs over the last decades,

including Blanche Lincoln's recent win.

Fear DLC-corporate wing of the Democratic Party which is moving the party to the right --

Fear corporatism -- which is fascism.

Fear that Obama is on the wrong side of too many of the issues --
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. You preaching to the choir!
You know as well as I do it is very important that we do not allow the Republican Spin machine to get away with blaming Obama & the Democrats for the spill as they are doing.

LOL! LOL! You tell me to stop fearing the GOP and then you tell me to FEAR THE GOP!

Make up your mind!

We are on the same team and I agree with what you are saying...And I am 100% correct for saying what I did. So, stop with your over the top comments. The problem right now is winning in November!!

If the GOP wins back control of one or both houses of congress then we will see what your attitude is like then.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #97
103. Ok . . . apologies -- caught your response late --
I'm actually suggesting that you put the TV in the closet --

and certainly stop watching right wing media --

Most of us tried 25 years ago and more to stop the right wing noise machine

which was taking hold -- Democrats need to restore Fairness in Broadcasting Act -

Off shore oil drilling is hugely unpopular with environmentalists -- anyone who

understands Global Warming -- and with liberals/progressives.

Unfortunately, Obama approved not only offshore drilling but this well!

And, either Salazar went for a ride on the BP spin machine or they somehow ignored

all authority and went down 5,000'? But it wasn't approved.

Obama reacted to all of this very late -- very late. Maybe he thought Rahm was taking

care of it?

No liberal is looking for to go backwards into the right wing nightmare -- the differences

are about how to go forward. And, very likely, we can't do it with the leadership we have

in place now -- the president's selections are dismal. From Rahm to Summers and everything

in between. From "Rigs these days don't spill" to "The Gulf will bounce back!"

Liberal policies are needed to attract Americans to the Democratic side -- that's not

happening.

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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #86
94. Read this!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. If you're asking liberals/progressives to support wrong-doing as being correct ...
you'll be waiting a long time for that --

The right wing has to control all forms of information in America to make their

propaganda successful. You can see the extremes of our "free press."

That's happened since Reagan overturned The Fairness Doctrine --

Democrats have done nothing to restore it --

Americans have never really been political -- they need to begin talking to one

another and getting political. Lots of information does get thru -- enough to

wake them up.

That still doesn't make Obama right re off-shore drilling -- it should be stopped

-- and Coast Guard works for the public, not BP!

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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. You know that is not what I am asking!
President Obama is not perfect and yes he has done things we do not like but I can say for myself he has done way more good than bad...You may disagree.

However, to sit at home and not vote in November will only make things much worse and you know it.

Voting in November does not mean you are "supporting wrong doing as correct"...We simply cannot let the GOP win back one or both houses of congress! If so, then BP will get off easy and the GOP will spend the next two years trying to dig up dirt on Obama just like they did Clinton.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #98
104.  What you mean is ...
Edited on Mon Jun-21-10 10:00 PM by defendandprotect
"Stop saying things I don't want to hear!" --

I looked at the thread when you posted it originally -- did you read any of the

posts which totally disagree with the article? And from kpete's question mark,

presume he also disagreed with it --

No one is looking for nor expecting any president to be "perfect" -- that's that "PONY" again --

What we are saying is that things that are correctable aren't being done --

Why jump into offshore drilling -- why not have looked at the 26 year Moritorium and

realized that it would probably not be wise to do this? Especially 5,000' down.

And, I do disagree -- I think Obama did terrible harm to our opportunity for MEDICARE FOR

ALL -- and that putting Baucus -- or anyone who has taken money from the health care industry --

in charge of deciding what to do about health care reform was tellingly unfortunate.


However, to sit at home and not vote in November will only make things much worse and you know it.

Where do you get this idea that that's what any liberals/progressives will be doing?

Voting in November does not mean you are "supporting wrong doing as correct"...

Nor has any liberal ever said that!

What we are saying is that criticism of what Obama does wrong is not going to stop --

because liberals/progressives will not support wrong doing as correct.

Got that now?


We simply cannot let the GOP win back one or both houses of congress! If so, then BP will get off easy and the GOP will spend the next two years trying to dig up dirt on Obama just like they did Clinton.

Let me suggest to you that had Obama passed MEDICARE FOR ALL you wouldn't now have to worry

about "November" or the next 40 years of Novembers! Democrats would have been set for the

next 40 years with the voters! More than 76% of the public supported single payer!

Including an even larger majority of Catholics, despite what the US Catholic Bishops led

Americans to believe.

The time to have worried about what off shore drilling might mean to the nation -- and about

corruption at BP -- was BEFORE approving this well and any other offshore well!

Again -- no liberal/progressive is looking to elect Repugs or to go backwards - the argument

is about how to go forward. Concentrate on that!





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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. I disagree with you, gateley.
Cutting corners on safety due to "extraordinary circumstances" is exactly the reason that we are in this mess.

The oil in that water is flammable and poisonous. Failure to take follow every possible safety precaution could cause much more than just the deaths a few workers (which to me is a horrifying possibility in itself).
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
51. On second thought, the more you learn..... yikes!
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #31
53. Excellent point. Okay, I'm going to revise my view on this. Coast Guard
boards ships, if they're not in compliance they are required to get the necessary equipment immediately, but are allowed to still tend to the clean up in the meantime. They should be given maybe 24-48 hours? THEN if not in compliance, stopped until they are. If there's a hole in that, I'm always eager to learn where I'm missing something, so feel free. :hi:

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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #53
63. How about having the Coast Guard deliver extinguishers & life preservers
Edited on Sat Jun-19-10 12:46 AM by snot
to those that lack them.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. Or, better yet, have BP deliver them to each barge.
Don't have the Coast Guard do this. Taxpayer money spent on this will never be recouped.
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Starckers Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #64
75. CG
THe Coast Guard should have carried extra life preservers and
fire extinguishers if that is all that it took to keep
sucking up that oil.  That is what a smart person would have
ordered.  They could get helicopters to fly the stuff out. 
BP already is putting up 20 B to keep money flowing where
needed.  Get them out of the way!!!
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. Problem solved! I think that would be perfect and the easiest solution! nt
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #63
72. +1000
I find the whole issue a bit puzzling. I think there is more than is being reported. The boats should have these items regardless of oil spills. It is the law. Why they suddenly are without them is just strange.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #63
87. Right ... and how about checking this stuff out before ships arrive in Gulf--!!
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
48. Agreed. I feel safer.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
84. If the barge catches fire while sucking up all that oil - is a fire extinguisher
going to really do all that much good?
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
89. Me thinks in this case the coast guard should be giving out the needed safety equipment
letting bp pick up the tab.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. just great, so when one of these things
catches fire and sinks, everyone will scream for the Coast Guard to do something... this is the kind of stupidity that was a causative factor in the original fire and sinking

Federal law, safety law and protection of workers MUST be enforced
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. According to AC360 last night,
Jindal didn't have a problem with the inspections, but wanted the CG to inspect the barges without shutting down operations because they were trying to remove the oil closest to the wetlands.

The CG opted to shut them down, and do the inspection at the port.

That's when the fecal material hit the oscillating device.

Ironically, the barges were released 24 hours later without any inspections being done(according the Jindal).
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. "That's when the fecal material hit the oscillating device."
:rofl:

Mind if I steal that?
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. Feel free.
I ripped it off from a friend when I was in the Navy!
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
102. really is a good line, think I'll steal it too if you don't mind
Thanks :)
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I seriously doubt any fire big enough to sink a barge...
...will be extinguished by a hand-held device.

just sayin'

A fire on a barge is possible but not probable. Oil in the eco-system is inevitable.

Weigh your risks, set you priorities.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. no, the hand-held devices stop
fires before they become big, and barges burn all the time

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Barges don't jump well and I barged in on this thread for no
apparent reason. :)
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Boool cheeeeeeeet nt
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. rom this point forward the Coast Guard can not interfere with cleanup operations,
Oh my, I hope that is true!
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FLPanhandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. YES!!!!
They have been nothing but obstructionists here in Destin. Adding absolutely no value.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. The coast guard has been acting might queer if you ask me.
A little to cozy with BP and their orders.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. Determining if a boat is safe takes a few minutes...
Any one of a dozen different departments can board your boat. Why can't they board this barge and check it out?
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. They can. Obama's order is that the Coast Guard can check it out
and make safety recommendations.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Since when does the coast guard need anyone's permission -- Obama or otherwise --
to board a boat?

AFAIK, they can board whenever and wherever they please for any reason they please.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. They are trying to prove the government is too large and incompetent.
The title of the article has change:

BP Oil Spill: Against Gov. Jindal's Wishes, Crude-Sucking Barges Stopped by Coast Guard
60 Days Into Oil Crisis, Gulf Coast Governors Say Feds Are Failing Them


This quote from the OP is no longer in the article:

According to Plaquemines Parish officials, the White House found out about the boats being halted and spoke to the Coast Guard, informing them that from this point forward the Coast Guard can not interfere with cleanup operations, only make suggestions on safety concerns. Within a few hours, the barges were back in operation.



Here is the gist:

The governor said the problem is there's still no single person giving a "yes" or "no." While the Gulf Coast governors have developed plans with the Coast Guard's command center in the Gulf, things begin to shift when other agencies start weighing in, like the Environmental Protection Agency and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

"It's like this huge committee down there," Riley said, "and every decision that we try to implement, any one person on that committee has absolute veto power."



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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
52. deconstructionists attack! I prefer the original quote myself.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. I wonder why he has the title of commander in chief. nt
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lillypaddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. yeah, you would wonder that.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. are you smoking crack? of course they need permission.
What do you think they are, some fourth branch of government independent of anyone else? The coast guard are part of the armed services, like the Navy. They're answerable to the President. I thought people learned this stuff in elementary school.
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. No, the CG does NOT need permission to board a ship.
They are allowed to board at anytime to do a safety inspection. If you do not have all the equipment required by law they can ticket you and force you back to port to correct the violations.

The same is true for police on the lake for me here in VA when I take the boat out. Watercraft are not protected from boarding by law enforcement at any time.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. try reading the context next time
Which was ixion's suggestion that the president has no authority over the coast guard.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
54. No, the population of the last 30 years have been severely deprived and distracted from information
crucial to create and sustain civilized nations using
principles of ethics, logic and passion. 

We oldies tend to be effective coaches, trainers, teachers, 
or good friends in bridging the generation gaps to blend into
 a colorfully woven social fabric.... a web of
sustainability.   

....in my imaginings. 
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
67. Any one of a half-a-dozen different agencies from the Coast Guard, to
Fish and Game, to the Marine Patrol can stop you and board/inspect your vessel at any time. That's the way it is.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #67
100. i can see this concept is too complex for you
Let me make it very simple. The president has ultimate authority over these agencies because he is head of the executive branch. If he orders them to change their policies they must obey.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. He's the Commander in Chief.
How is that unclear? :shrug:
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
58. That is their current authorization. The CiC is entitled to change that. n/t
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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
73. I am still looking for where the OP says different..
Care to enlighten me?
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. Security! Security!
We need to see your ticket stub and two forms of ID before you use the fire escape.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. Normally, the Coast Guard just issues a citation for lack of safety gear.
As soon as they do this, they are off the hook.

What is surprising is that they actually told them to cease operations, without considering the amount of work it takes to make a voyage out to see, go back to port, get the gear, and come back out.

I'm surprised that they just don't hand out inflatible life preservers with all the massive money they are purportedly throwing at this thing.. Oh yeah, it's tied up in a escrow fund...

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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. There was no problem with the safety gear
They just could not trace the boat back to its builders and that is just plain fucked up.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
37. +1. In this age of automated red-light cameras at every intersection...
We couldn't just implement a "tag and release" policy here? :shrug:

Don't get me wrong: Safety checks are important! :dilemma: ...But cops who ticket speeding ambulances aren't likely to win any popularity contests.

Personally, I'm glad the White House stepped in on this issue. :thumbsup:

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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. let someone die because the CG failed
to ensure their safety and the same assholes will be screaming for blood.

:eyes:

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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
28. By all means, cut corners on safety. What could go wrong?
Some people just never get it. This isn't Nam, Smokey. There are rules.
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
29. Another black eye for government oversight of this disaster.
The way the Federal Government has handled this will be cited in poli-sci classes for many years to come as a textbook example of political bungling. Probably on the same page with Katrina.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #29
76. Fits in with the Right WIng theme that gov'mint can do no good.
Bush put incompetent cronies in charge of critical government agencies.

The Obama Administration has been much more responsive and professional in their approach but every lapse will be highlighted and magnified in the corporate media because

Republicans want to pretend that The Bush Administration wasn't so bad. Rove sees this whole disaster as his chance to erase the stench of Bush's Katrina response.

But the Obama Administration did jump to the disaster scene faster than the Bush Gang and with more experienced people in charge. Although they made the big mistake of pretending BP was not already a proven corporate criminal with hundreds of millions in fines for malfeasance in their history.
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #76
88. Actually, it fits in with the progressive theme that we should demand competent government.
In this case, government execution was not so good.

I have no interest in ideological beliefs that government is either a)useless or b)infallible.

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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #88
90. We still have a lot of Bush Cheeneey Leave-Behinds
from their days in charge working hard to show that government could be rotten.

That's why I wanted strong Democratic agenda pushing at the beginning of President Obama's term. And a clear break from Bush Cheeneey policies. Not that weird bipartisanship that allowed Republicans to pretend they had not driven our country off sharp economic and moral cliffs.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
30. Er if the oil catches fire, some fire extinguishers aren't going to stop it
Sheesh.
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CONN Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
33. hey that's BP's oil thy're sucking...
BP must have sent the Coast Guard...
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Shining Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. +1
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Lurks Often Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. Total lack of common sense
What the Coast Guard should have done is conduct the safety inspection at sea and provided any needed life preservers and fire extinguishers so the barges could continue their work, NOT have them go back to port.

As for the rest of this bureaucratic infighting bullshit, some people need to be fired
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
38. the coast guard did the right thing for the safety of the crew
the white house is wrong. with out confirmation of the safety equipment no one is to proceed in the clean-up .

it`s in the osha rules which someone in the whitehouse knows nothing about.
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Blacksheep214 Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
41. Looking at the bigger picture...
a couple barges is a bigger PR issue than an actual savior.

Keep the crews safe. These rules aren't new.

This is akin to miners charging into a mine collapse, screw safety and become part of the problem when THEY have a problem.

Remember the 9-11 workers. The clean-up isn't worth your life!
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
42. "What we have here is a failure to communicate..."
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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
46. Jindal should have a TF for ensuring PFDs and Fire extinguishers
have them carry a few dozen around in a boat, to prevent these stoppages.
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Althaia Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
47. some clarification
My understanding is the barges are working in the coastal marshes, in relatively calm water, close to shore. They are not 'out to sea' yet.

Even so, they should take all safety precautions. The oil is flammable, so fire extinguishers are absolutely necessary. It is also deadly poison, so no member of a clean up crew should get submerged in it if they fall out of the barge. Life vests!

Once the Coast Guard inspects the boat and cites them for any violations, then it's the boat's liability if there is an accident, not the coast guard's.

Don't forget how litigious this whole business is. There is much too much confusion about who is responsible for what.
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civilisation Donating Member (456 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
55. Safety, really? Pure power struggle more like,.,
Personaly I have been stopped by the coastguard in a boat,. they count life-vests and issue tickets if you don't have enough. One time we had some stuffed up in the nose of a ski-boat, it took us like 10 min. to dig them all out, and that was still legit, as we did have the required number for the passengers,. of course they would have been useless if the boat where to flip or some such,. but the coastguard just went away, as no violation.

In this case they forced clean-up crews to shore, for like 24 hours, in the middle of an oils spill, to count life-vests and fire extinguishers?!? This was a clear case of a pissing contest over power and control. Sadly as the big boys in uniform trying to out piss one another the ecosystem dies. Anyone claiming 'safety first' needs to go swim in the sheen with the dead whales, see how safe that is.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
56. Someone needs to fire the Coast Guard
they are in bed with BP
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jonathan_seer Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. you got that right
from day one, the Coast Guard spokesman has done his best to spin the disaster benignly as possible, offering only BP data as info. They basically wrote his daily reports, and still seem to be doing so.

He needs to be fired, and the whole Gulf Coast Coast Guard needs to be investigated for corruption.

The notion you stop ships from working to check if they have life preservers is absurd obstructionism designed only to delay and harass the ships in order to prevent anyone other than BP from collecting the oil - for it belongs to them as they said.
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Blacksheep214 Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #60
79. Too bad they didn't harrass
the safety on board the oil platform(s)!

Perhaps if the barges were flagged in the Marianas they could be unseaworthy rustbuckets but that would be ok.

People are expendable. Ask the 9-11 workers!

What is a day delay really going to do, anyway?
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
57. I can't find the last paragraph quoted anywhere else.
Can you please provide a link?
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-18-10 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
59. I've had dealings with the Coast Guard in the Gulf of Mexico
They are like a squadron of Barney Fifes, spending endless amounts of time on filling out forms and avoiding doing anything to assist.

I'm glad the WH FINALLY is starting to cut through some of the idiotic red tape.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
66. Admiral Fat Allen gets attitude adjustment...
Edited on Sat Jun-19-10 04:43 AM by Hubert Flottz
Piyush had better watch his step now that he's pissed off Adm. Fat Allen.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
74. It's called being a commander in cheif.
GOBAMA!

:headbang:
rocktivity
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
77. Fire extinguishers and life vests?
I have been involved with the maritime business for most of my life, and I have never seen nor heard of a commercial vessel without both of those items.
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Fastcars Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. Aren't Barges Usually Unmanned?
Edited on Sat Jun-19-10 01:40 PM by Fastcars
It seems the issue is that since barges are usually loaded and moved by another vessel they aren't designed to be manned. So they don't come equipped with all the same safety equipment that a vessel that is designed to be manned would be.

I have always thought that was what made a barge a barge and not a boat. Looked it up. Guess I didn't think about party barges....N 1. a. A long, large, usually flatbottom boat for transporting freight that is generally unpowered and towed or pushed by other craft.
b. A large, open pleasure boat used for parties, pageants, or formal ceremonies.ition is what I had in mind.
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #81
99. Any flat bottom, blunt bowed, wide beamed
vessel is called a barge, a scow or a pram whether powered or not. I didn't think about party barges.
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-19-10 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
80. Extraordinary Circumstances
Edited on Sat Jun-19-10 12:48 PM by JohnnyRingo
Coast Guard at Midway Island in 1942:
"Return the carriers to San Francisco until we do a visual safety check and determine crew training".

Coast Guard in North Atlantic 1912:
"Attention Carpathia, the Titanic's survivors can keep rowing until we board to make sure the 'no smoking' signs are properly posted in your engine room".

The Coast Guard commanders, like all naval captains, fear if they aren't seen doing something, their ship will be sold to the scrapyard.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-20-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
92. Foreign Rigs, Tax Evasion Dominate Gulf Drilling (re: Coast Guard role on OCS)
Foreign Rigs, Tax Evasion Dominate Gulf Drilling

Calls to Americanize Offshore Fleet would Benefit US Shipbuilding, Jobs

by Betsy Glassman
June 18, 2010 Words & Pictures Communications

BPs oil spew and foreign vessel operations on the outer continental shelf (OCS) were the focus of a June 17 hearing held by the Coast Guard Subcommittee of the House Committee on Transportation, which found that foreign rigs dominate drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, creating tax evasion and safety inspection problems.

The Deepwater Horizon exploratory rig that exploded April 20, killing eleven and smothering the Gulf of Mexico in oil, was a foreign mobile offshore drilling unit (MODU) built in Korea, registered in the Marshall Islands and owned by Transocean, Ltd., a company incorporated in Switzerland its assumed to avoid US tax, said Subcommittee Chair Elijah Cummings (D-MD). Transoceans tax in Switzerland is 16 percent, compared to 35% in the US.

Chairman Cummings stunned with his opening statement: The Coast Guard cant say how many foreign-flagged MODUs are operating on the OCS because they are not required to announce their arrival. Devising a rule for such announcement began in 2006 but its not done, which is tragically unacceptable, he added.

Rep. Frank LoBiondo (R-NJ) said the number of vessels operating under the US flag has plummeted and many are now operating under flags of convenienceWe dont know what vessels are in US waters or what theyre doing.

All foreign-flagged vessels must comply with the laws of their respective nations and the US concerning safety inspections, but Transportation Chairman James Oberstar (D-MN) noted, Some have low standards Who verifies the Marshall Islands is doing proper inspections? He referenced a dispute between BP and Transocean regarding maintenance of the Deepwater Horizon, and asked if the Coast Guard has the capability to take over inspections from the Minerals Management Service (MMS).

The MMS is charged with drilling inspections and according to Mary Kendall, Inspector General for the Department of the Interior, there are currently only 50 inspectors for 4000 rigs operating in the Gulf. Speaking before the House Natural Resources Committee at a separate hearing the same day, she reported a dearth of regulations for MMS inspections with little direction regarding what and how to inspect.

The Coast Guard is responsible for ensuring all other regulations are met by both US and foreign vessels. Rep. Don Young, (R-AK) lamented, Weve neglected the Coast Guard all these years. We ask them to do missions like taking on oil spill responsibility without providing the money. Chairman Cummings said he is working with the Obama Administration to restore cuts to the Coast Guard immediately.

Foreign-flagged vessels including MODUs can operate on the OCS only with a Coast Guard Certificate of Compliance, which requires an annual security and safety examination. Referring to bribery in third world countries, Rep. Gene Taylor (D-MS) questioned whether a piece of paper stating a foreign-flagged vessel meets all regulations is adequate. He admonished witness Admiral Kevin Cook of the Coast Guard, You dont know who inspected it could be no one.
Cook responded that the Coast Guard inspects documents of all foreign vessels to the extent we can verify but admitted, We werent there for hands-on inspections in foreign countries.

The subcommittee appeared in bipartisan agreement about the need to tighten restrictions on foreign vessels and Americanize the OCS fleet. Mr. Young bemoaned the fact that, Most deepwater rigs are not American. Chairman Oberstar declared, We need to Americanize the vessels operating in the US Economic Zone. Witness David Matsuda, the Department of Transportations Acting Maritime Administrator, said that increasing the number of US-flagged vessels would spur US shipbuilding. Mr. Young referred to the Jones Act, which restricts foreign vessels from transporting cargo between points in the US, including on the OCS. He reported that many non-US vessels go ashore for supplies, a violation of the act: The Jones Act is not being enforced and were chipping away at the American fleet. Mr. Young recommended to Adm. Cook that he come up with a specific rule so that a foreign vessel is out if a US vessel is available.

OCS regulations require employers of vessels to hire US citizens or resident aliens, but exemptions are allowed if employers can demonstrate an insufficient number of US qualified and available personnel. Mr. Cummings stated that more than 6700 foreign workers now man crews under exemptions, representing nearly 10% of vessel workers. He said he could not believe there were not enough American workers to fill those positions.

Congressmen also questioned skimming operations, the number of American vs. foreign vessels available for cleanup and how regulations such as the Jones Act can ensure that US-flagged vessels get most of the work. Mr. LoBiongo said hes received reports that US vessels were offering to help but were being turned down. Adm. Cook responded he did not know of such cases.
Rep. Corrine Brown (D-Fl), in contrast, called for large skimmers to protect her state and she didnt care where they came from. She thought one was in Norway. I want the big one, she stated emphatically, holding up a printed photo of a large vessel. How do I get it---the big one?



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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
105. Now there is some fucking change I can believe in!
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