APNewsBreak: New, giant sea oil plume seen in Gulf

[maddezmom]

Source: AP

APNewsBreak: New, giant sea oil plume seen in Gulf
By MATTHEW BROWN and JASON DEAREN Associated Press Writers © 2010 The Associated Press
May 27, 2010, 11:13AM


NEW ORLEANS — Marine scientists have discovered a massive new plume of what they believe to be oil deep beneath the Gulf of Mexico, stretching 22 miles from the leaking wellhead northeast toward Mobile Bay, Alabama.

The discovery by researchers on the University of South Florida College of Marine Science's Weatherbird II vessel is the second significant undersea plume recorded since the Deepwater Horizon exploded on April 20.

David Hollander, associate professor of chemical oceanography at the school, says the thick plume was detected just beneath the surface down to about 3,300 feet. He says it's more than 6 miles wide.


Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7024847.html

---

:cry:

[SpiralHawk]

1. Meanwhile, Rush DraftDodger Limbaugh (R)

...is right now broadcasting his $40 million a year corporate (R) payola propaganda that this is all natural, all SOLVED by the free maket Corporate-Payola Persons, and all the fault of Obama and the Lib-ruls. Ptoooey.

Ptoooey. Ugly reality reveals his ugly republicon-payola lies.

[Ganja Ninja]

5. I'm going to be watching the news for when this washes up on Palm Beach.

I may actually make the effort to drive over and get a picture of the oil on the beach in front of his house.

[aquart]

33. Limbaugh has a Palm Beach house?

Yeah, I'm praying the oil goes there first. Ain't nothing gets government moving like mad millionaires.

[Ganja Ninja]

47. I actually found it on google earth after seeing a picture of it ..

in the Palm Beach Post.

[RKP5637]

7. People like Limbaugh really should not be able to use public air waves to

broadcast outright lies and dysfunctional distorted propaganda for profit which is targeted at undermining the country for his and his keepers personal gain. We have too many gullible people in this country. Limbaugh only fans the fires of hatred in this country making some feel their hatred and ignorance is justified and sanctioned.

[marions ghost]

14. I agree

My dad lives in a very conservative area. Everybody voted for Bush. These people are so full of wrong information and lies it's ridiculous. They blame everything on Obama and target groups that they are told to hate. Dad tries to reason with them, but there's no hope. They are absorbing a daily diet of right-wing hate and division. It is a cult, a very dangerous cult.

There should be some way to get some help from people who can speak to these fearful, gullible folks (in their own language) and try to break the grip of the cult leaders.

[Myrina]

24. "The Force has a very strong effect on the weak minded"

... and apparently the Dark Side of The Force, even moreso.

[valerief]

52. Convince a big multinational corporation to speak the truth on a much-watched teevee network.

Any much-watched teevee network.

It will never happen in my lifetime.

[RedCloud]

58. That is why Limbaugh persuades. Monopolize the viewpoint.

And why most places that have more than one viewpoint are left of center. So they keep a significant number in the dark.

[blue sky at night]

64. i just don't think we should waste a minute.......

talking to these folks, they will never change. the one thing we can do is simply outnumber them....until they fade away!

[marions ghost]

69. I agree it's a waste of time

trying to get through to closed minds. They only follow what the cult leader says. Everyone who doesn't agree with them is crazy. My dad is with them on a regular basis, so he gets tired of the BS and lets them have a piece of his mind fairly often. Being elderly he gets away with it. They don't whip up on him and they think he's in the minority. One time he got accused of being "a liberal" in snide tones, but he said calmly, "No, I'm a Radical." That shut em up.

On the other hand, I don't think these types will "fade away" any time soon. Things are not going to get any easier or more secure for them. They are looking for something we all want--solidarity, community, something resembling a tribal bond. The right wing blowhards fill the gap and give them a sense of belonging, a sense of their place in the order of things. But it's all about "us vs them" thinking. It's all based on division. It's really a sad situation.

But I don't underestimate the dark forces driving these people. We can't wish them away.

[defendandprotect]

90. Unfortunately, it was never properly addressed when it could be fought . . .

Fairness in Broadcasting Act -- really destroyed free speech and opened airwaves

to right wing propaganda.

Plus, heavy involvement of CIA and MIC in "news" programming --

[bobbolink]

76. I agree and have been thinking this about the lies, too.

Of course, I understand "free speech", but it should end where public airways and lies are concerned.

We are very late to the party on this.... this should have been addressed a very long time ago!

[RKP5637]

96. Hi!

:hi: :hi: :hi:

[PinkFloyd]

81. True e-nuff!!

Never understood the people who listen to him (or those of his ilk), that make less than 75k. I mean, come on...cry me a river for BP. Those are probably the same type of people who root for the house if they go to Vegas.

[renko]

28. Turdbo makes $50 million per year

Wasn't his contract $400 million/ 8-years?

That would be $50 million/per year.

[Grinchie]

75. Thanks Disney Corp, For keeping filth like Rush on the Air

[NewJeffCT]

34. Good response I heard on the "free market" taking care of things

Did the free market get rid of slavery?

How about Jim Crow laws?

Forgot where I heard it, but I thought it was good.

[Blue Meany]

57. Did a great job ending world hunger and the health care crisis too...

That's because the market doesn't really respond to demand, it responds to money.

[texastoast]

65. We need a list of what the free market (fka capitalism) does not fix

Just like we had to shut up the hypocrisy of the opponents of the health care reform who claimed that they were not socialist in any form or fashion (but continued to drive on public roadways, etc.).

[TroglodyteScholar]

77. The people who worship the free market...

...don't necessarily believe that slavery or Jim Crow laws were bad things.

[havocmom]

2. oil well whatck a mole

Not a good game.

[ixion]

22. my thoughts exactly: 'whack-a-mole'

Nope, not a good game at all in this context. :(

[havocmom]

23. Seems the earth is sending a message: Just because you can do a thing...

is no guarantee you should do a thing.

And thanks for correcting my typo. My hands and my brain seem not to be in close communication anymore.

[ixion]

84. Yep, we would do well to listen.

Incidentally, I didn't write that as a correction, just that I thought of exactly the same thing. No worries. I have days like that, too. :hi:

[tabatha]

3. Heartbreaking.

I hope this is a huge wake-up call to people about what is being done to the environment.
Obama should use this to put severe regulations into practice.

[CoffeeCat]

8. It's also a clear illustration of what has...

...happened to our democracy. We no longer have a democracy.

We've got politicians who take campaign-contribution bribes from
corporations, such as BP. Then, in kind, our government allows
these companies to run with no regulation, creating dangerous
circumstances.

This goes for the health-insurance companies, the banks, big
pharma, chemical companies, the food industry, agriculture, etc.

Now, we see, in technicolor, the disastrous consequences of BP
buying deregulation from our corrupt, bought-and-paid-for politicians.

It's utterly sickening. And if this doesn't wake up the sheeple, I don't
know what will. The tea partiers should be all over this. They're for
the Constitution and for democracy aren't they? Where are their outraged
voices?

[Kolesar]

9. BP drilled a mile deep in our Gulf without the necessary technology to control it

And the US government acted like they didn't know that it *could* be a problem.
That is my take on it.

[marions ghost]

15. that's all anybody has to know

to know how wrong it is.

[proudohioan]

17. Mine too. Same with the financial and housing collapse...

who could have seen it coming??

[Art_from_Ark]

98. Apparently, the US Government thought a worst-case scenario

would be a small spill of a few thousand barrels that could be quickly contained and would be quickly dispersed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/04/AR2010050404118.html

[RKP5637]

10. So true, the idiotic teabaggers rages are misdirected. I have no idea how

we get out from under the failed democracy in this country. Money, donations and outright briberies wield so much power in this country. It's one endless vicious circle and just about no matter where you look in this country it is or has become corrupt.

[Doctor_J]

21. Do your part

think in terms of a "final solution" to the hate radio problem

[RKP5637]

30. While I believe in free speech, I believe in responsible free speech. People like

Limbaugh and the like, for example, really should not be able to use public air waves to broadcast outright lies and dysfunctional distorted propaganda for profit which is targeted at undermining the country for his and his keepers personal gain

We have too many gullible people in this country. Limbaugh, for example, only fans the fires of hatred in this country making some feel their hatred and ignorance is justified and sanctioned.

I feel the Fairness Doctrine should be brought back and enforced.

Today, anything goes for free speech and megabucks get behind people like Limbaugh, Beck and the herd for the sake of profit as, ha, just entertainers. What a bunch of crap!

[Taverner]

59. Bring back the Fairness Doctrine!!!

[Doctor_J]

83. The lies, hate, and propaganda won't end until we end them

within a couple years you will get to choose whether to flee, fight, or succumb. Don't be surprised when the time comes.

[RKP5637]

97. It's clear they are intent in taking over the entire country with the rest of

us subservient to them. The lies, hate, and propaganda have to come to an end.

[Enthusiast]

99. Fairness Doctrine, yes! At least. nt

[joanmj]

20. Absolutely!

[closeupready]

26. Obama is a product of that system, as well.

n/t

[proudohioan]

31. Exactly!

This is exactly what happens when corruption 'spills' into our political system.

This was the whole idea behind politicians earning decent salaries - to prevent corruption and bribery!

I guess THAT one kind of back-fired, didn't it!

[bdamomma]

32. yea haven't heard a peep out of the teabaggers on this.

[Hestia]

53. I've heard some peeps - that's it is Obama's fault for letting BP handle things.

I am not too terribly far from the mark on that. But if there are other plumes out there, does this make the concrete injection thing moot?

Can someone gives us some info on these plumes? I've read about several, very deep 20 miles out. Is this one gigantic pressure keg, and that is why the plumes are appearing? I'm confused on this aspect of the whole debacle.

TIA

[CoffeeCat]

73. It's so confusing!

I don't understand about the plumes either. It must have to do with ocean currents.
The currents could cause the oil to coagulate and create big floating oil deposits.

These plumes are currently deep underwater. Oil floats, so eventually will these
massive plumes (some of them six miles long) surface and make their way to the coast?

I have a stomach ache from all of this. I feel like I'm witnessing events that my future great
grandchildren will be talking about.

[Devil_Fish]

85. You expect to have great grandchildren after this? I don't. in 20 years the only life left on Earth

will be roaches.

[CoffeeCat]

95. Do you think this oil spill...

...will set off a chain reaction that will destroy life on Earth?

[CoffeeCat]

4. How many plumes like this are there?

It's hideous to even contemplate how awful this is.

[maddezmom]

12. Not sure but they sent out a NOAA boat this am to check on them

http://www.wlox.com/Global/story.asp?S=12550516

[BelgianMadCow]

40. even though there was a report weeks ago on the first plume...

had to give it some time to disperse nudgenudgewinkwink?

[TwilightGardener]

6. It doesn't appear to be a new problem related to the top kill--it's attributed to dispersants

[Lone_Star_Dem]

11. BP says it's premature to blame underwater oil layer on dispersant.

After initially bracing for a glut of oil leaking from a British Petroleum well in the Gulf of Mexico to wash ashore in Louisiana, experts have now warned large amounts of oil have pooled below the waters' surface

One layer of oil is reportedly 15 to 20 miles long and four or five miles wide. Microbes will break down some of it, but in doing so will deplete oxygen levels in the water, possibly making it uninhabitable for marine life.

British Petroleum has said it is premature to blame the layers of oil below the surface on the use of an untested technique of injecting chemical dispersant into the underwater source of the oil leak.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5585701,00.html

Of course they're going to say it's not because of the dispersant they used. If they could they'd say it wasn't due to the leak they caused. Doesn't change the facts though. They used this dispersant in an attempt to hide the oil below the surface and keep some of the damage from being as visible to the naked eye. It doesn't make it less damaging, it's just less visible to the average person and the press.

[Urban Prairie]

13. +1 n/t

[BelgianMadCow]

43. BP says it's premature to measure the exact spill size as well

1 + 1 = 2

anyone that understands what a dispersion is, and that read "unprecedented quantities used at leak depth, whic also hasn't been doen before" knew enough.

Terribly frustrating to see, a train-wreck in slow-mo.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

48. BP is trying every trick in the Big Oil handbook to limit their liability

The massive application of dispersant at the leak level was a new one. It's important to note that just because some of these plumes are being found does not mean all of them will, or even that they'll have accurate sizes reported. Then there's the factor of the dead creatures, which is another measure of their liability. At the depths these plumes are being discovered there is going to be no accurate way to gauge losses or the real liability of BP.

[laughingliberal]

71. Yes, BP thinks it's premature to blame anything on them or their actions. nt

[Devil_Fish]

86. FUCK YOU BP! YOU FUCKING KILLED US ALL! N/T

[The Stranger]

16. Rumor is that there is an entirely separate leak thus far unnoticed and unaccounted for.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

18. That's ridiculous

There's the drill pipe and the failed BOP to be leaking, both of which have leaks BTW. Both of these have been fully covered by ROV and cameras. There's nothing else down there related to this well tap. A leak anyplace else would not be from this site and not a result of this drilling disaster.

[Myrina]

25. True, but perhaps ANOTHER "lesser" leak , elsewhere ...

it's not like there's only 1 drilling platform in the Gulf right now ....

:shrug:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

49. Exactly what I was saying

If there's another leak, which there may be, it's not from this well.

[lostnfound]

91. Video, Dylan Ratigan with 2 "industry experts"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x469209

[snappyturtle]

101. EVERYBODY needs to watch this video! Thanks for posting. nt

[BelgianMadCow]

44. It's not because we haven't seen anything else that there isn't - but this plume is from the known l

says as much in the article

[icee]

79. If this rumor keeps up, it will allow BP to cast blame on another

oil company regardless of whether the other leak is real or not. It could in fact be BP who released the rumor of the other leak. They could drag settlements on for a decade using this story.

[Uncle Joe]

19. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, maddezmom.

[sui generis]

27. quick: volume of a tapered cylinder

anyone? 22 miles, origin radius = 0, measured radius = 6 miles. Add a factor for oil density in the plume to estimate actual volume of oil. I'm alunch tippy typing on itty bitty cellphone.

[florida08]

29. why aren't they sucking this stuff out

Apparently it's all together in a plume. Although I wouldn't depict 3300 ft down as just beneath the surface, but if they can put a straw down to the bottom they can reach the plume. Geez louise

[BelgianMadCow]

38. The ratio oil / water is likely 1/10 or lower, and the volume is tens of millions cubic metres

so that would not be an easy operation and one that would recover a lot of water.

My guess is the dispersant game makes the entire cleanup a LOT harder and lowers the potential.

Advantage is obviously not having bad PR of oily beaches (which would be WAY worse without the subsurface plumes) and also that you kill animals below the surface and close to the leak - the bodies don't end up on the beach so much.

Both spill size and # of dead animals are used to determine liability. Need I say more?

These plumes should have been monitored independently and scientifically from the start of (leak-level) dispersant use. The first was reported weeks ago by ONE (1) scientist. Now it's gonna be that much harder...

[marions ghost]

54. right

and you saw those congressionals yelling for more dispersant, in fact DEMANDING it! Despite the advice of most scientists NOT to use this stuff.

A misguided effort to appear to "do something," or in fact, a criminal cover-up? :dilemma:

[BelgianMadCow]

56. congressionals demanding more dispersant - I'd say want to yell SOMETHING

BP's very early decision to use unprecedented qualities and also use it at subsurface leak which was unprecedented, that's another matter. A lot of the lawsuits are gonna center on dispersnat choice and usage I think - not to mention the downright refusal to the governmental change request.

Of the congressionals I suspect they didn't really understand - about what happens when creating a dispersion, or what the potential impact of Corexit could be. I sure hope they weren't yelling for more after Corexits "toxic, mutagenic and carcinogenic" properties and its prohibition in the UK (!) became widespread knowledge.

[marions ghost]

72. Yes the lack of understanding at first...

and just the demand to "act" amid the growing frustration. The congressionals wanted to assure us they were using every means possible to mitigate the effects. I was horrified to see them jumping on the BP "more is more" dispersant bandwagon. I think they only understood the true dangers at the time of the about face on Corexit. By then it was too late.

I know we all know this but just FYI:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/business/energy-environment/13greenwire-less-toxic-dispersants-lose-out-in-bp-oil-spil-81183.html

"Bruce Gebhardt, president of the company that manufactures Dispersit, U.S. Polychemical Corp., said BP asked for samples of his company's product two weeks ago. Later, he said, BP officials told him that EPA had wanted to ensure they had "crossed all their T's and dotted all their I's" before moving forward.

Gebhardt says he could make 60,000 gallons a day of Dispersit to meet the needs of spill-containment efforts. Dispersit was formulated to outperform Corexit and got EPA approval 10 years ago, he said, but the dispersant has failed to grab market share from its larger rival.

"When we came out with a safer product, we thought people would jump on board," he said. "That's not the case. We were never able to move anyone of any size off the Corexit product."

He added, "We're just up against a giant."

[juajen]

63. Perhaps because it is so far down. Could be a cold problem, as

there was when ice crystals appeared when "top hat" was attempted. I certainly don't know the logistics, but just thinking there's got to be a reason they are not sucking up this oil. This is just ludicrous. I and other people on the coast are just disgusted and crying all the time.

[Devil_Fish]

88. There not sucking up the oil because it is under the water where no one can see it so who cares? N/T

[Devil_Fish]

87. The top of the plume is just below the surface, the bottom is 3300 feet down. N/T

[NM Independent]

35. These F'ing bastards...

are doing nothing with these dispersants aside from hiding the truth from the public. They are making it worse.

[Devil_Fish]

89. Yes, dispersants are making the problem worse and the oil impossible to collect.

[bdamomma]

36. oh crap, this is so bad.

:(

[Poll_Blind]

37. HELP: Is this oil coming from a NEW LEAK from a different well?

Not clear on that.

PB

[BelgianMadCow]

41. as bad as it is, NO - "stretching 22 miles from the leaking wellhead"

from the linked article - so it originates at the known leak(s)

[Poll_Blind]

55. Ok, thank you! n/t

PB

[IndianaGreen]

39. Whose bright idea was it to have more deep offshore drilling

together with new nuclear plants and something called "Clean Coal?"

[texastoast]

66. Well, a bunch of DU'ers are well on board with nuke and offshore drilling

Personally, I think that is a short-sighted as Kay Bailey's and John Cornhole's thinking on the matters.

[defendandprotect]

94. Suicidal elites who now run government and all its agencies . . .!!!

Hard to believe this nuclear crap is back again ---

Can't even be insured except by taxpayers/government!!

And the WASTE!!!

[glinda]

42. am going to throw up

[sam kane]

46. +1 nt.

[MrMickeysMom]

45. Where are the super-tankers?

Are they still in a flotilla out "there" waiting for prices to be right so they can empty the payload?

I wonder how many people joined in telling the Dept of Interior's website to use the available super tankers (I understand 24) out there and suck this up!

Bad news.... can't we have some of this action as good news?

[Nihil]

102. Please try to be consistent inside a single post ...

Your post started with

> Where are the super-tankers?
> Are they still in a flotilla out "there" waiting for prices to be right
> so they can empty the payload?

then went on to say

> I wonder how many people joined in telling the Dept of Interior's website
> to use the available super tankers (I understand 24) out there and suck this up!

If the "super-tankers" are sitting "out there" waiting to unload their contents
("when the price is right") then how are they expected to use them to "suck up"
more oil (i.e., into the already full tanks ...) ?

:crazy:

It's one thing to be all tin-foil about things but at least try to stick to
one ridiculous conspiracy theory per post when they are diametrically opposite
and totally exclusive of each other!

:rofl:

[MrMickeysMom]

103. See if you can follow this, Nilhil...

This might be a good time to explain what I was trying to say, or a total waste of time, as I suspect it will be, especially since I struck a nerve. Wow, what will I do if you're not able to understand what I wrote... maybe I'm in for lots more swell emoticons?

DU had a video early this week with Hard Ball's interview with Mike Papintino-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x468191

Pap was referring to the number of super-tankers that were likely to be able to unload their oil payload to the Asian shores or some such destiny (I do not claim to be an expert in oil commerce). More to the point was that they could HAVE been in a state where they could retrieve oil in the Gulf as had been the case in 1994 when this actually was a solution for sucking up 85% of the oil in the Saudia Arab bay. That wasn't a "conspiracy theory", it was history that had shown one way they could capture a significant amount of this oil. You should actually check this out, or read history, instead of reacting with the stupid shit you just did. What are you, an idiot?

You have your explanation, now.

So, maybe you should cease the snarky little comments like "tin foil hat", and using phrases like"ridiculous conspiracy theory". What in the world would what I wrote (which many saw here, but you didn't) have to do with conspiracy?

Man, what a exasperated little stain you must be on someone's carpet.

[Nihil]

104. Speaking of "little stains" ...

> (I do not claim to be an expert in oil commerce).

That much is obvious.


As a reminder, your original post stated:
>> Where are the super-tankers?
>> Are they still in a flotilla out "there" waiting for prices to be right
>> so they can empty the payload?
>> I wonder how many people joined in telling the Dept of Interior's website
>> to use the available super tankers (I understand 24) out there and suck
>> this up!

That lack of consistency provoked my response:
> If the "super-tankers" are sitting "out there" waiting to unload their
> contents ("when the price is right") then how are they expected to use
> them to "suck up" more oil (i.e., into the already full tanks ...) ?


I know full well that *empty* tankers would have been useful ...
> as had been the case in 1994 when this actually was a solution for sucking
> up 85% of the oil in the Saudia Arab bay.

... but note the important difference here: in the 1994 incident, the tankers
were *empty*, in your post you claimed that the tankers were full and "waiting
for the prices to be right so they can empty the payload".

I found your inconsistency comical.

There again, given that you can't even type a five-letter username
without errors, maybe I shouldn't expect too much from you ...

[opihimoimoi]

50. The Global Demand/ Thirst fo energy drives the drilling...what they did was a crime only because

BP went cheap in the way of preventive measures and worst case scensrios not addressed in any meaningful level...

as Rachel said: In 30 years we are still using the same methods dealing with runaway wells WTF?

No PROACTIVE MEASURES IMPLEMENTED....only the same ole BAND AIDS

[Jester Messiah]

51. Man, if only someone had told us that our oil addiction would end badly...

Oh wait...

:argh:

[KurtNYC]

60. "sea oil" !? That coined term makes it sound like it BELONGS THERE!

What's next "sea oil gulls" ? "Sea oil lions"?

[Bluebear]

61. Oh, it's "sea oil"! Must be indigineous to the region.

[marmar]

62. ROFL....with a hint of sadness.

:rofl: :cry:

[Junkdrawer]

93. It's part of the natural cycle. Sometimes the Gulf is full of oil....

and sometimes it's full of water. Because it was full of water for the last 50 million years, we biased our oil/water measurements.

[ddeclue]

67. Yeah because the dispersant works.. to camoflage the surface plume from the satellites..

The dispersant is just to mitigate the PR disaster from ugly satellite photos.

[Catherina]

68. Words fail me right now

:cry:

[MissDeeds]

92. +1

It is beyond words.

[Delphinus]

70. More than six miles wide???!!!

Holy fuck!

[earth mom]

100. That's what got me too-are we the only ones to notice that sentence in the OP?!

Holy fuck is right!!! :wow:

[robertpaulsen]

74. If a corporation really were a person, BP would get the death penalty.

Or maybe "enhanced interrogation" at Gitmo.

[Jacobin]

78. Nice try hiding it with dispersants, BP

Ugh

[HillGal]

80. I think Mexico and Russia are still drilling in the Gulf, all drilling has to stop NOW. NT

NT

[depakid]

82. Where did everyone think all that oil was going?

:shrug:

Didn't just up and disintegrate- and there's a lot more out there to be found than this.