Kerry endorses Specter in Pa. Senate primary

[brooklynite]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON — Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry on Monday endorsed Republican-turned-Democrat Arlen Specter in Pennsylvania's contested Senate primary as the incumbent tries to fend off criticism that he used "Swiftboat"-style attacks.

The 2004 Democratic presidential nominee released a statement praising Specter as a "fighter and a friend, and I am proud to vouch for his character." Kerry's press secretary, Whitney Smith, later said Kerry was endorsing Specter.

Specter is in a close race with Rep. Joe Sestak for the Democratic nomination. Specter raised questions about Sestak's Navy record and the retired Navy admiral accused his rival of a "Swift Boat"-style attack.

...snip...

"That's an issue for the candidates to address and the media to investigate," Kerry said. "However, as the political season turns increasingly heated, I want to insist on a reality check about my colleague, Arlen Specter. I have known Arlen for 25 years and I know his character and the quality of his service to Pennsylvania."

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hYaIyDkFVX0afGrXWSja6P1gCe3AD9FK2AB00

---

I'm not playing favorites in the PA primary (I gave Sestak money early on to hold Specter's feet to the fire), but I will support the Primary winner.

[bluestateguy]

1. Kerry's wife was Specter's long time colleague from Pennsylvania

I suspect that has something to do with it.

[blm]

7. No. Biden and Reid talked Specter into switching to D and promised support. Sestak will win this,

but, it's still necessary to go through some of the hoops for upcoming legislation that Specter will still be part of over the next 6 months.

Kerry's statement made positive references to Specter's CHARACTER. It hardly reads as an endorsement. Sounds more like he's throwing Specter a bone with no meat on it, because WH, Biden and Reid needed THEIR promises covered.

[wisteria]

10. I am working hard to make the outcome in Specter's favor.

Are you from PA or even familar with PA? Democrats have a great get out the vote effort and all that effort is going to be behind Specter.He has all the huge endorsements and 77% of the party's backing. The Democrats I talk to, are angry at Sestak and are starting to organize and fight back against him. Sestak may be the progressive favorite, but he is a weak candidate and like the guy who took on Leiberman-he will not win the general election if he does win the primary. I don't know how you can be so sure he will win though. In PA it isn't over till it is over.
And, honestly, I resent you making assumptions on why Senator Kerry spoke in favor of Senator Specter-exactly how would you know?

[blm]

30. Like anyone else, I write posts that reflect MY read of the matters. I'm allowed that and am

surprised anyone would resent it. I couldn't imagine actually resenting a longtime poster because he/she reads a political matter differently than I do. Argue the point, yes, but, resent the person with the different view....nope. I appreciate your opinion and can appreciate the positions supportive of Specter that various Dem pols have taken - political reality is political reality whether we like it or not...and I usually don't like it...but....do UNDERSTAND it.

BTW, I thought you knew my husband worked at Patriot News a couple years before KnightRidder hired him in 2000. We lived in downtown Harrisburg, a few blocks from the river. Still know some of the folks at the paper, though most have moved on.

[wisteria]

34. Well, then permit me to tell you again that I think you are wrong.

And, Harrisburg is really a Republican leaning area. They will go for Toomey for sure. I have lived in PA most of my life, born and raised in Philly and now living in Western PA. My roots with Specter go way back to my father and his time in politics.

[blm]

37. No problem. I'm originally an Ohioan. I get you. : )

I just happened to live in other interesting regions the last 30 years, as well.

[still_one]

82. "and like the guy who took on lieberman"? Lamont would have won if lieberman didn't run as an

independent. All the polls I have seen indicate today Sestak would win the general election if he won the primary

Of course if spector runs as a third party candidate, like any third party candidate, it then becomes open

[PassingFair]

84. Democrats in PA are MAD at a DEMOCRAT who is running against a REPUBLICAN?

WTF?

"The Democrats I talk to, are angry at Sestak and are starting to organize and fight back against him."

I'm glad I'm not involved in YOUR state politics,
it's bad enough in Michigan!

Get the hook out of your gullet ASAP!

[No Elephants]

95. Yes, when the Party and all the Party's big names support the neocon, the Democrat does

become the "weak" candidate.

It happened with Lamont Lieberman and it may happen with Sestak Spectre. More's the pity.

[No Elephants]

94. So did Kerry say anything at all about Sestak, character or otherwise?

Kerry is underwhelming me this week, what with voting against breaking up "too big to fail" institutions, raving about the Kagan nomination and endorsing Spectre.

[wisteria]

14. Senator Heinz and Senator Specter ran against each other and eventually worked side by side as PA

senators. And, I am certain Teresa knows more about Specter's integrity and dedication to PA than most of the people here who are more than willing to bash him and Support a man they know little about.

[No Elephants]

96. Spectre has switched Parties twice, but spent most of his career as a Republican.

[No Elephants]

93. When they were both Republicans, probably.

[defendandprotect]

2. Sad . . .

[FreeJG]

29. This is not the first time Kerry has meddled in a dem primary, and supported a DINO!!

And they said he was our 2nd most liberal senator back in 2004, after Ted Kennedy. And, he was right in the middle of writing new energy policy and was going to push drilling too. Then the explosion...

he used to be an enviromentalist. i think even he's been in office too long. They think they're suppose to be there forever. It's time t kick them out. Kerry's next.

[defendandprotect]

43. Re the drilling . . . someone here was in great denial of that the other day ....

said it explicitly in the article -- but still, they constantly denied it!

To be honest, Ted Kennedy wasn't quite the liberal he was a long time ago --

i think we have to overturn them all -- one by one -- targeting them as the

right wing does!! ????

[wisteria]

50. when that day comes I am gone. I believe in people having more than one point of view. n/t

[defendandprotect]

53. I believe in their supporting democracy, ideals of democracy . . .

not magic bullets which they know to be lies.

Not feigning being "environmentalists" while supporting drilling!

[No Elephants]

115. Obviously, since you've posted on this thread that you vote Republican as well as Democrat.

You believe in the same person having more than one point of view.

I believe in never voting Republican.

[karynnj]

108. You really want a Republican majority don't you?

How many states would elect someone to the left of either Kerry and Kennedy? In addition, what you would find is that it is easy to run as a pure liberal. It is impossible to write a bill which is "pure" liberal ideas with no compromise and pass it.

The fact is that Sestak, who you are supporting here is far to Kerry's right.

[No Elephants]

118. None of us, including you, has any idea who can get elected because the DNC supports only

one kind of candidate.


Kerry's state is Massachusets. It first elected Kerry when Kerry was considered quite left. Ted Kennedy, too. And it voted for them again and again.

I think this Congress has been passing legislation that is much further to the right than any legislation Republicans would have passed thirty or so years ago and that is pathetic.

[karynnj]

124. Actually, the healthcare bill that actually passed

was pretty close to what could have passed in 1970. The difference was that in 1970, the Democrats thought they could do something more progressive.

[saracat]

157. And today's democrats didn't even bother to try. Actually the GOP 1970 Plan was more progressive.

How sad a party we are today. This HCR isn't even worthy of its name. We still have to buy drugs from other countries and millions of us are not taken care of heathwise yet millions more are forced to buy overpriced insurance with no provisions to regulate premuims. Those with insurance can expect no relief.

[karynnj]

163. At least on the last, you are wrong

I've seen the basic things that will change due to the law in the plan at the company my husband works for - there are some very real improvements because of the law.

[saracat]

165. Not for those of us who have to purchase our own. Our prices will

remain the same and our coverage. Those of us who have no jobs and buy our own are still screwed. And even the WH told us that.Those with private plans will expect little change. And we were among those that needed the most help. But heck, when we run completely out of money, they will help us, so its all good , right?

[karynnj]

167. Those with no jobs and no income would seem to qualify under Medicaid

The fact is there are subsidies for up to 400% of poverty.

[saracat]

168. It is considered "income" to withdraw from pension plans and savings.

And those who do so are not eligable.

[defendandprotect]

134. How many red states have turned blue . . . ???

And how any more blue states would there be if we weren't voting on hackable

computers? And if GOP wasn't Gerrymandering elections?

What you're making is a DLC/corporate wing argument -- no thanks!

I supported Sestak because I was told he was liberal -- I was assured he was not DLC.

That won't happen again -- however, those of us who supported him did it in the

interests of putting someone more liberal/progressive in that seat. Obviously,

DLC/Rahm are working overtime to fill seats with conservative Dems.

Until we get DLC/Rahm out of the White House -- and remove him from Obama's ear --

things won't turn around in that regard . . . Emmanuel will continue to hatch little

blue eggs!!

[wisteria]

49. Kerry's not going anywhere. Gee you sound just like a Tea Partyer. n/t

[No Elephants]

97. If this week is any indication, you may just be correct. Fat chance primarying him, though.

The DNC and its stars throw everything behind incumbents, especially if they are NOT liberal.

The most liberal Senator of 2004 would have been to the right of Joe McCarthy in 1950. So sad. Too bad.

[karynnj]

106. Kerry still is a dedicated environmentalist

He has always been against off shore drilling. Only as part of a compromise to set a price on carbon - needed if we want to address global warning - that he was willing to consider SOME expansion. The reason is not Kerry changing - it is because you have a huge number of Democrats committed to protecting coal plants and others who won't vote for it without drilling included.

When I posted a letter from 14 coal Senators - including Feingold and Franken - people here backed Feingold and Franken!

If even on the left, no one wants to push Senators away from fossil fuel, it is rather hard to fault Kerry for still working hard to make a start on global warming.

Not to mention - if Kerry fails, the energy only bill itself increases drilling.

Kerry was recently identified as the 6th most liberal Senator. He still is.

[defendandprotect]

135. Kerry was in the process of writing legislation permitting more offshore oil rigs ...

when this BP event happened --

Kerry has become a problem -- he was never a favorite in the primaries but TPB

stuck us with him as presidential candidate -- and he was another bomb.

Thanks, anyway -- but we should move on from Kerry to someone who is actually a

liberal/progressive!

[karynnj]

149. Kerry won because he was the favorite of the voters in the primaries

He first won NH and Iowa because after meeting face to face with voters he won over more supporters. Kerry did NOT have the media's support prior to January 2004 nor did he have the most superdelegates or the most money. Dean had every single one of those things. Money is often the best indicator of who the powerful are supporting. By Fall 2004, Kerry was raising so little money that to stay in the race he lent himself $6 million - the most he could. In the last half of 2003, Dean got by far the most coverage and it was mostly positive.

Dean also raised the most money by far - $40 million in the last quarter of 2003, much of it raised over the internet. Dean also got the endorsements of both Gore and Harken. Two of the four most valuable endorsements for Iowa. The other two were Clinton, who endorsed no one, but said Clark was the only star other than Hillary and Vilsack, who endorsed no one. (His wife endorsed Kerry.) The New republic had an issue where 4 editors endorsed their favorites - Dean, Edwards, Lieberman and Gephardt. No Kerry.

He was indeed writing legislation - as I said he was - and it was said to include the same expansion that Obama wanted and that was also in the Bingaman, energy only bill. As I said, he had to make compromises to get a bill that would start to control carbon.

As I also said first blame those Senators demanding drilling be included or they won't vote for it - like Warner and Webb. Same for the Coal compromises - blame Franken, Feingold and 12 other favorites. It is pretty silly to blame the person working hardest to get an environmental bill that will pass. (Feingold voted for an amendment that bars using reconciliation for this bill - so give him extra blame.)

You would have a point if the bill Kerry was working on was a bill that did nothing but allow more drilling - but Kerry would vote against that as he has in the past. (He was against offshore drilling when Obama agreed to with it in August 2008.)

[politicasista]

151. They can't blame those senators because they would rather

bash Kerry instead. And bash Obama.


Good post. :)

[politicasista]

144. lol @ some still not

answering the rest of your post, (about the other Sens..the popular ones) not backing this, but still looking for anything to bash Kerry (Uncle Ted. R.I.P.) and Obama with.

[Arkana]

127. Thanks, but we MA folks like Kerry right where he is.

As the last scion of a once-proud legacy of MA senators.

[defendandprotect]

136. Expectations were also that Brown would lose . . . isn't that true?

I think MASS voters understand what is going on and will move to the left --

if the system permits it!!

We need more liberal/progressive candidates to fight this rw fascism that

corporations have put upon us --

not people like Kerry so ready to compromise nature away to them for exploitation!

And that's the core of capitalism --

[Arkana]

137. Expectations were that Martha Coakley wouldn't go on vacation for three weeks

and then belittle Scott Brown for shaking hands outside Fenway Park.

Your post clearly shows you know very little of Kerry and are judging him based on the fact that he endorsed a friend in a tough primary.

[defendandprotect]

139. Granted I don't know everything about Kerry . . .

but I do know that he was not a presidential primary candidate favorite -- he

was at .03% at one point! He is merely another leader GIVEN to us by TPB.

But, what I do know is that he is no where near liberal/progressive enough to make

the changes that our nation needs NOW.

[JI7]

161. yes he was, he was my favorite along with many others of us who helped him

your vote and support did not count more than others.

[karynnj]

152. I suspect that people in MA know that Kerry is the leading environmentalist

in the Senate. I also think that it might be wise to wait until you actually see the bill. If there is enough shift against offshore drilling some of the Senators insisting on it might shift. Kerry would obviously prefer a bill that has no added drilling. Instead of bashing Kerry - why not lobby Senators like Webb and Warner?

Kerry is the sixth most liberal Senator and he is in a position of power.

That MA voted for Brown is NOT a sign that it has made a giant leap to the left. If MA (please) defeats Brown, it is not a sign that Kerry would be in trouble. Kerry is far to Brown's left.In addition, he just won re-election in 2008 with two thirds of the vote. The only way he will be out in 2014 is if he decides to retire - he is 66 and Teresa 71 or if he takes a position in Obama's administration - though he has made it clear that very littel could make him leave his seat.

[politicasista]

158. Good question.

Lobbying other Senators? Too hard and too much work. :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Another good factual post. Me wonders if the reaction would be different if it was Kerry/Boxer instead of Kerry/Lieberman?

[karynnj]

162. Not really - the House bill was attacked as well

by organizations like Greenpeace. This bill is worse than Kerry/Boxer - but if Kerry/Boxer had a chance Kerry would have stayed with it and pushed like hell to make it work. People here don't seem to get that the reason the Senate bills are worse than the House ones is that they need 60 votes - meaning they need 1 plus the number of Democrats who are against something. The House only needs 50%, so they can lose several democrats.

[politicasista]

166. Do wish him the best here

The media is trying to say that most Democrats do not care about this issue when it should be a big deal. Hopefully, Obama can explain more about what it is because since the bill has Lieberman and Graham's names on it, it is falling on deaf ears.

[Inuca]

138. Kerry's next?!?!?!?

Really? What crooked logic is this? Sounds like something to be shouted at a Scott Brown rally :puke:

[defendandprotect]

140. Do you think the Repugs moved everything to the right by keeping their

liberal and moderates?

Our problem is DLC/Rahm Emmanuel constantly breeding little blue puppies --

and blocking anything but more movement to the right.

DLC is problem -- corporate wing of Dem party!

[saracat]

3. I thought it was determined Kerry praised both guys and didn't endorse in that statement?

[politicasista]

6. Keyword: Swiftboating

Sounds like it is an endorsement of neither, but pointing out the word "swiftboating."

If it is/is not an official endorsement, AP is joke and his spokesperson needs to understand that.

[wisteria]

19. You are wrong. Kerry's office has confirmed it is an endorsement and

Senator Specter's web page is saying as much. Politisista, please do not judge Senator Specter by what other here have to say. I have voted for Specter no matter what party he was associated with. He has done wonderful things for PA and he is an honorable and dedicated servant to the people of PA. I truly believe that Senator Kerry was only alluding to not wanting to get into swift boating, in regards to his endorsement, but having worked with Senator Specter and knowing his character and dedication was in fact endorsing him over Sestak.

[politicasista]

26. Haven't judged anyone

Do agree with beachmom, that since (ok small confirmation) it is an endorsement, don't you think this could drive a wedge between some liberal bloggers/activist groups that have supported the Kerry through when others sided with more favorite liberal progressive Democrats?

Especially since they are his allies and to them, this move feels very Pro-Establishment, at a time when there is Anti-Washington sentiment on both sides. The big oil Climate Change deal and the vote for (when the main liberal Democrats voted the other way) Wall Street was a little disappointing.

The Senator needs to do what Obama does, get out of DC and speak to real people. I have no problem with Specter, he is ok.

Don't have any dogs or cats in this fight, so will exit this thread now. TN has its own issues.

[saracat]

39. Hmm. Then I would be wrong I guess.This is another time

I think a pol should keep his opinions to himself. I don't have a dog in this fight but it seems too bad that Kerry said anything.

[wisteria]

51. Obviously he felt a need to support a friend. n/t

[saracat]

54. But apparently Sestak is his friend as well.

[wisteria]

56. True, but obviously it must of come down to who is more qualified

and who will do the best job for PA right now.

[saracat]

76. Ah well, not my problem.I was just curious.

[bread_and_roses]

83. ROFL, it comes down to who's in office right now

and that would be Specter. And whatever he was promised for his Party switch, which no doubt included support in any D Primary, should any upstart be so fool-hardy as to run one in defiance of the Party machine.

Specter is the one in position to cast votes right now. And since he's proved that he's an opportunist of the first order, just like the rest of them, no doubt he'd take revenge for any defections of support from "his" Party - hell, he could always switch back to R. "More qualified...do best job for PA" has nothing at all to do with it.

Kerry loses nothing by endorsing Specter, he just hedges his bets. Should Sestack win, Kerry knows that as new kid on block he won't be able to afford to hold grudges against a powerful, established same-Party member.

How anyone could have watched politics for more than a day and come up with such a naive statement boggles my mind.

[No Elephants]

102. Nah. It comes down to who the fix is in for. It's in for Spectre, more's the pity.

[No Elephants]

101. It's not about friends. It's about the deal Obama Biden made with Spectre.

[defendandprotect]

141. And there is quite a question in itself--!!

How does someone befriend a Repug who helped cover up assassination of

a Democratic president -- JFK?

Truly frightening that anyone would see things that way --

As they say, the Congress is the "world's biggest old boys' club" --

and that's the psychology that has to be changed!

[No Elephants]

98. I would not judge myself wrong on the basis of something posted by a poster who votes Republican.

[politicasista]

65. That is what I was saying

Never said anything about Specter. Got no problem with him or anyone. :shrug: Kerry did not have to do this. He could have said no.

The only thing is that his credibility may take a hit with the liberal bloggers (which he worked hard to win back after 2004/2005) may turn on him and look to other liberal progressive Democrats (Feingold, Franken, etc.) for getting their issues out, and those that see him as aligning with the corporatists (conservadems) of the DLC wing.

But as said above, have no dogs and cats in this fight and not from PA, so will leave this thread and wish everyone the best.


Me knows nothing. TN has its own issues now. Just in case people haven't watched the news:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/flooding_in_tennessee.html

[wisteria]

74. Sorry to be rough on you. You know that I respect your opinion.

And, Kerry will take a beating-isn't that always the way?

[politicasista]

77. It's ok.

Have not been paying much attention because of the natural disaster here last week.

Unfortunately that is always the case, but Kerry was just starting to reach those people, who are his allies on various issues (i.e. Climate Change, Net Neutrality, etc).

He seems to always be the only one (besides President Obama), only Dem senator (besides the Conservadems) that is liberal, but takes a beating on everything. He is going to need to mend some fences before its all over. For some reason Kerry is held to a higher, double standard than most liberal progressive Democratic Senators/politicians. That is unfortunate, but that is the way it is.

[No Elephants]

100. Self Delete.

[No Elephants]

99. You vote Republican?

[wisteria]

15. No, who did you here that from? n/t

[karynnj]

110. He did - and there is not a statement on his website

If you read all Kerry's quotes, it sounds like he is friends with both and didn't want to take sides - on the primary or on the definition of swiftboating. But, a spokesperson did say it was an endorsement.

[tomm2thumbs]

4. I think that could only hurt him with anti-incumbent sentiments running high

and raising questions about Sestak's Navy record reeks of desperation - not a good sign for Specter's momentum

[No Elephants]

103. You'd think Kerry wouldn't raise questions about anyone else's service, wouldn't you?

[AllentownJake]

5. Where did this idea that Sestak is a progressive come about

:rofl:

[onpatrol98]

9. LOL...maybe compared to Specter

:shrug:

[AllentownJake]

11. I will never forgive Biden for interfering with PA poltics. nt

[wisteria]

20. Actually, Specter has a more progressive record than Sestak. n/t

[Number9Dream]

148. Sestak is much more liberal than Specter - here's proof

Joe Sestak has voted with a majority of his Democratic colleagues 97.2% of the time.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/s001169/

Only PA Congressman to have 100 % rating from the League of Conservation Voters, PennEnvironment, and has been endorsed by the Sierra Club.

http://joesestak.com

His legislative efforts resulted in Majority Leader Steny Hoyer naming him the most productive freshman member of Congress.

http://www.house.gov/list/press/pa07_sestak/pr_080310forum.shtml

Sestak, who had served as a three-star Admiral and who spent thirty-one years in the Navy is one of seventeen veterans in Congress who are co-sponsors of legislation to lift the ban on openly gay service.

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS144555+05-May-2008+PRN20080505

Sestak supports Healthcare Coverage for all Americans:
"While affordable and accessible preventive care is so essential to reducing the overall costs of healthcare, we must also provide healthcare to all Americans through a system that is cost effective for families, businesses and providers."

http://joesestak.com/issues/health-security

Instant Liberal Arlen's DISMAL voting record:

Arlen Specter’s Recovery Act cuts cost Pennsylvania about 1.6 billion dollars.

http://youngphillypolitics.com/arlen_specter039s_responsibility_pennsylvania_budget_crisis

Specter scores 32% by The League of Conservation Voters on environmental issues, indicating generally anti-environment votes.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Arlen_Specter_Environment.htm

Voted NO on repealing tax subsidy for companies which move US jobs offshore.
Voted YES on restricting rules on personal bankruptcy.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Arlen_Specter_Corporations.htm

Voted FOR telecom immunity.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/12/politics/politico/thecrypt/main3821504.shtml

Voted YES on $86 billion for military operations in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Oct 2003)
Voted NO on redeploying non-essential US troops out of Iraq in 9 months. (Dec 2007)
Voted NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq by March 2008. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on redeploying troops out of Iraq by July 2007. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on investigating contract awards in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Nov 2005)
Voted YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq. (Oct 2002)

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Arlen_Specter.htm

Specter created a chart which helped derail Clinton health care reforms.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200709180008

snip> "Republican Sen. Arlen Specter's office created the chart, and press reports at the time cited experts or administration officials saying that the chart distorted the Clinton proposal and ignored the greater complexity of Republican proposals and of the existing system."

[onpatrol98]

154. Really???

I had no idea...

:spray:

[wisteria]

13. Because the Progressives are promoting him. He is actually fairly Conservative.

You know this effort by Progressive to sabotage the Democratic primary and push anyone other than Specter smacks of CT and the Lieberman race. They just picked a little more experienced candidate this time and counted on his getting donations from Republicans trying to do in Specter too.

[AllentownJake]

17. I am still laughing about the invite to a fundraiser I got

at the home of a Moody's economist who was on the McCain economic team during the election from the Sestak campaign.

:rofl:

[wisteria]

21. Wow, that certainly says something about Sestak. n/t

[AllentownJake]

22. I just remembered it and posted it in GD

At the time I was on a break from politics generally do to frustration. Still on a major break. However, I'll probably be voting for Specter on that email alone.

[AllentownJake]

28. Enjoy ;-)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8310310

[defendandprotect]

46. . . . and I sent Sestak money based on his being more liberal . . . tho will be

glad to see Specter out --

Magic bullet and all --

[mrmpa]

52. Prior to Specter changing parties, Sestak announced

that he would run for the democratic nomination for this senate seat. Sestak was given the ok, nod and a wink from the democratic party and those in power. Once Specter changed parties all support from the democratic party for Sestak was withdrawn.

Pat Toomey will win the republication nomination for this seat. Specter can't beat Toomey. Sestak can beat Toomey. I live in western PA. I have never liked Specter and I don't think he is good for PA or the democratic party.

[wisteria]

55. How do you see Sestak beating Toomey? The man has never run in a state wide general election

and most of his money sources will dry up. He won't be receiving any more Republican money if he does win the primary and I wouldn't count on over-whelming Democrat support either.
To bad you have such a bad impression of Senator Specter. I have always liked Senator Specter and voted for him even when he was a Republican. I think he has served the people of PA well for 30 years and I think he is better for the Democratic Party than Sestak is. And, I think he is the only candidate that will be able take on Toomey. He ran against him before and won. I can't say the same for Sestak. Many older people don't like Sestak, they will vote for Toomey-especially after the Republicans start to frame him and associate him with all the bad things about Congress.

[No Elephants]

104. Compared with a long-time Republican like Spectre?

Spectre and Hatch used to be joined at the hip, ffs.

[wisteria]

8. As a supporter of Specter and a PA resident, I appreciate the endorsement.

He didn't have to do this, but I am glad he has stood up for Senator Specter and told the truth about him. Senator Specter is not the boogie man or monster that people want to make him out to be. He has served the people of PA HONORABLY for 30 years-no matter what party he was associated with. He is also the over whelming Democrats pick. He won 77% of the vote at our convention in Feb.
I don't think this hurts Kerry at all, he has stood up to defend a good man from smears and lies about his service and his record.

AND, YES THIS WAS AN ENDORSEMENT AND A VALIDATION OF AN HONORABLE AND DEDICATED SENATOR. AND AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF ALL SPECTER HAS DONE FOR PA.Specter was voted on of the top ten senators by Time Magazine because he made a difference in Washington. And he makes that same difference in PA.

Maybe you need to reside in PA to understand that.

[Doctor_J]

12. The I wish he hadn't dragged Sestak's admirable Admiral record through the mud

There is absolutely no call for that type of slime.

[AllentownJake]

18. It probably is true nt.

[wisteria]

23. That was not untrue. Specter is an Army man and I at first questioned this,

but I was provided proof of the charge and since that time Sestak has been hiding behind the notion of being swift boated. But when he is asked to produce his military records he refuses. In my book, it is not swift boating if the accusations are truthful and in this case it appears they are. Non-Partisan military references back up what Specter has said.

[AllentownJake]

24. If he treated the people under his command

the way he treats his campaign staff, it is fully believable.

Sestak is widely known throughout the state as being an ass to his staff that aren't family members.

[wisteria]

36. So again, Specter is right about Sestak. n/t

[No Elephants]

107. Kerry refused to provide his record, too, until after the election was over.

P.S. There is no such thing as non-partisan military.

[No Elephants]

105. As Kerry well knows from experience. Sad to see him Roving.

[AlinPA]

25. I'm from PA and everyone I have talked with (and others I have heard) say the same thing;

Specter switched just for the election. You probably have seen the latest ad where he says he switched to win the election (sounds rather creepy when he says it) and it shows Bush calling him an ally, then him campaigning for Palin, well, I must have heard more than 20 Democrats say that that ad is very convincing, and that he is really a republican just trying to get elected using Democrats' money and time. Not that they needed convincing because all of them are favoring Sestak based on what I heard them say.

[AllentownJake]

27. Sestak is a an ass

Not that I love Arlen, the guy is an ass as well.

I'm left wondering what might have been without Biden and Barack's entry into PA democratic primary politics.

[AlinPA]

31. The President and VP should not play favorites in primaries. You know Sestak better than I do,

but I'm voting for him because I can't abide Specter's 40+ years as a republican, and then in a moment when he sees he can't beat one of his party members he suddenly becomes a Democrat. I'm thinking he would switch back if he won, after using Democrats' money and energy. The thing that really put me over the edge was his campaigning for Palin. So I'll take my chances with Sestak. IMO, he would do better against Toomey.

[AllentownJake]

32. 2010 is going to be a tough year in PA

The state running that creepy advertisement on TV where they GPS tax cheats isn't fucking helping right now.

[wisteria]

40. I will agree with you there. I am wondering if it is worth my time to

campaign for any Democrats after this primary.

[AllentownJake]

44. I'm helping Onorato

Only because my friend who was the campaign manager on another campaign I worked for has a large role.

Other than that I'd show up to vote and wash my hands of the mess the fucking state party has made over the past 2 years.

[wisteria]

57. Onorato has my vote too. And, if you think the state party is bad,

well you should see the Westmoreland Country Democrat party-pitiful. Democrats out number Republicans in voter registrations, but the voters always vote Republican.

[AllentownJake]

63. I think that is the story with most of the local parties outside of

Philadelphia and Pittsburgh

Lehigh and Northampton are a clusterfuck of fail as well.

[wisteria]

67. We do need some fresh new ideas and some new faces. n/t

[AllentownJake]

69. Yes and when they come in the club chases them out nt.

[wisteria]

71. Yes, yes, that is exactly what happens. n/t

[PassingFair]

86. Really! I couldn't tell as much from listening to you guys.

:rofl:

"...well you should see the Westmoreland Country Democrat party-pitiful. Democrats out number Republicans in voter registrations, but the voters always vote Republican. "


From the DEMOCRAT campaigning for the REPUBLICAN incumbent!

:rofl:

[PassingFair]

85. Maybe you should switch sites.

www.conservativeunderground.com/

Here's a good spot for you!

[karynnj]

116. Don't be a jerk

She has posted here for years, supporting many liberal Democrats. The fact is that Specter is now the Democratic Senator from PA. If you think about it, without him we would likely not have passed the stimulus package - which he voted for crossing party lines - and we definitely would not have had healthcare without him.

The fact was that at one point the parties weren't as polarized and there was a fair amount of overlap between them. As the Republican party shifted far to the right, he actually fits better as a Democrat. His votes have also shifted to the left - likely because there is always some call on some issues to vote with your party.

It is hypocritical to rejoice and welcome Specter into the party -giving us 60 votes, needed when Republicans (even Snowe!) would not cross on cloture votes for health care - then to call him a Republican when he runs for re-election.

There are issues, high speed rail, where it was Kerry's and his bill that was rolled into the stimulus package, and the environment where he is good. I'm not a Pennsylvanian, so I didn't compare his and Sestak's positions.

[PassingFair]

120. Yes, we should thank Specter for his "gesture" , then we should back real DEMOCRATS.

Chaffee and Jeffords actually stood up to Bush
WHEN IT MEANT SOMETHING, and I don't see us
pressing flesh with them.

This was a cynical DEAL.

So he helped pass a "stimulus" that hasn't stimulated anything but
the banks ability to put foreclosed homes into a shadow limbo, and
helped pass a dead fish called "health care reform".

Don't we look good!

[karynnj]

123. Hasn't stimulated anything?

Although the Republicans say that, it just isn't true.

I am not saying who to support - simply it is a valid position to support either.

As to healthcare reform, it is real and it will make a difference. No, it is not single payer, but that had no chance of passing. The fact is looking at how it will impact people in a positive way when companies renew policies after September 23. It also will provide a huge amount of subsidy to low income people.

[PassingFair]

131. "but that had no chance of passing"

Bull, it could have been passed in reconciliation,
just like the mush that WAS passed.

We lacked the will.

As evidenced in this Pennsylvania race.

Have YOU noticed a "stimulus"?

I haven't.

[karynnj]

142. Single payer, i think not

Senator Sanders said it had less than 10 votes in the Senate.If anyone should know, it is him. Now, if you are meaning some version of the public option, that was questionable. There was great concern that it would not pass the Byrd rule. There were two ways to approach it. One was to include it in the House reconciliation bill and the other was to add it via amendment and sending it back to the House for another tough vote. The House really had few votes to spare the first time it passed the public option.

The fact is that the "mush" is landmark legislation.

As to the stimulus - yes I have noticed it. My 401K has rebounded. In addition, I'm seeing houses actually selling in my neighborhood. In addition, late last year, the company that my husband works for got a pleasant surprise. In early 2009, they had a companywide 5% salary cut. The company had done well enough that they had their salaries restored to the original level and received a check equal to the 5% cuts.

That's what I saw, but what one person sees can be misleading. But, what statistics show is that where there were steadily increasing job losses in the months leading up to its passing, when it did you saw ever shrinking numbers of jobs lost - and they are now net gains. That is real - the economy was going off a cliff and it has been turned around. It is still very tough.

[PassingFair]

143. As evidenced last Thursday, your 401K is only worth whatever ...

the PTB are willing to PUMP into the market to
save it from free fall.

Houses are being foreclosed on faster than they
are selling, and ONE QUARTER of American homeowners
are underwater on their mortgage.

Manufacturing jobs have been flushed down the
toilet to other countries, and our "service-based"
economy will soon go the way of Argentina and Greece.

We could have passed "single payer" via reconciliation,
if we had called it "Medicare for All", and passed it
just as Medicare was originally passed.

The "better than nothing" viewpoint is killing us.

We are frogs in slowly heating water.

[karynnj]

147. You can believe whatever you want

and cartoons are only as good as the cartoonist.

Find a single credible source that says that Medicaid for all was passable. That is single payer - and Bernie Sanders says that there were less than 10 Senators who would vote for single payer.

Last Thursday was part reaction to Greece/part computer error.

[PassingFair]

150. Wow.

If we had had the will, we could have done it via
reconciliation, just as the republicans did with
the original medicare bill.

If you think that drop was due to Greece, this must be the view from your back window:



Here's my view:

[karynnj]

153. The Republicans passed the original Medicare bill

I think LBJ is rolling in his grave. You do realize that Sanders' estimate is TEN Senators in favor of it. I am not speaking of procedural reasons here. You can not pass a bill with just TEN Senators. Sorry, it won't work.

[PassingFair]

155. The original Medicare bill was just a part of the Social Security package.

Almost all changes have been made by "reconciliation".

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124009985

We had our moment, and we blew it.

If not Medicare for all, was should at least
have pushed for a viable public option.

It was clear that this administration DIDN'T WANT a public option.

[karynnj]

156. Almost all the changes - not the original bill - plus the Republicans did not

do it. It is clear that the Senate and House were not sure they could pass the public option. Did you notice how close the vote was to the amount needed.

The fact is that the main purpose of the public option was to constrain costs. The THREAT of adding a public option itself with act as a lever on costs. Given that the entire bill -with structure and subsidies is passed, it will be easier to make that change if needed in the future.

[PassingFair]

159. Um...let me know when those easily made changes occur...

I'll be on the patio.

[karynnj]

160. Of course you will be - and likely attacking whoever starts work on it

[PassingFair]

164. LOL

I'll attack someone who doesn't push for the
best we can get!

I'm tired of seeing my party start from the
center and negotiate right.

[No Elephants]

126. Who in hell rejoiced over Spectre's self serving Party switch and sale of his vote in exchange for

Democratic support in this election?

At most, if you supported what I consider to be a crappy so called health care reform bill, you swallowed hard and tolerated a Faustian bargain.

[No Elephants]

122. See Reply #19.

[PassingFair]

132. Yup.

Proudly against the rules of the board.

[Ter]

35. In regular primaries, yes

But in a primary where the incumbent is being challenged, the party bosses always go incumbent.

[AllentownJake]

45. Specter would be debating Pat Toomey right now

If Mr. Biden hadn't come up with an idea.

Sestak would be the establishment candidate and Josh Shaprio would be the challenger.

Wish Mr. Biden would stay the hell out of PA politics.

[wisteria]

58. Specter was not going to stay in a Republican primary with Toomey.

He knew the Republican party in PA were out to get him. They came close before and they smell blood this time. I don't know what he would have done,for sure, but I don't think he would have run in the Republican primary.

[AllentownJake]

60. He should have done what Crist did

He'd win a 3 way race.

[wisteria]

64. Well, then there was that Biden interference. n/t

[AllentownJake]

66. Yeah Joe needs to stay the fuck out of PA poltics

Living in Wilmington and being from Scranton does not mean you understand our clusterfuck.

[wisteria]

68. LOL. n/t

[No Elephants]

129. Right, because the polls showed Spectre would lose to Toomey.

If Spectre knew he could have beaten Toomey in a primary, of course, he would have stayed in a primary with Toomey. Why not?

Try as you may to make it sound like a decision based on principle, as opposed to a self-serving decision, you just can't. It's too obvious.

[karynnj]

117. True - NO Senator backed Lamont

It was a big deal that Kerry and Feingold stayed neutral. Lieberman had just really trashed both of them and their amendment, but they still did not endorse Lamont. (It used to be that Republican Senators did not campaign against incumbent Democrats and visa versa)

[wisteria]

47. It is 30 years of service. And, he did it so he could continue serving the people of PA

He always felt it should be the general population-in a general election that should be the ones judging him and deciding if he deserves to continue to serve the people of PA.
I am voting for Specter, because I know what we have with Specter. Sestak is troubling to me. He is evasive and he has revealed very little about himself-like he is hiding something. He has not released any military records and he makes a lot of claims about the Democratic Party then refuses to name names. Frankly, I think he is bad news. And, I think he will implode in a general election. I have to wonder where he will get all the money he needs to run, since he won't have Republican money to rely on and he has had to blown his whole wad on all the commercials he has been running for a while now.
It is a shame that all it takes is a commercial -like Scott Brown's pick-up truck commercial to fool people into voting for you-even when they don't know a thing about you.

[wisteria]

38. Well, I agree that Sesak is an ass, I don't think Specter is quite on that level though.

And, I keep wondering how this would have turned out if Sesak hadn't been so hell bent on screwing over the party, because he wasn't going to get to do, what he wanted to do, when he wanted to do it.

[defendandprotect]

48. Agree . . . and pleased to see him go . . . but now we're stuck with Sestak???!!!

People at DU have been assuring us that this or that candidate isn't DLC, isn't

conservative -- and then we find out after we've given them $$, not so!!!

Stinks!!

[AllentownJake]

62. He invited me to a fundraiser at McCain's economic adviser's house

Well not personally but for $250 I could have had cocktails with one of the McCain economic team of 2008 and Joe Sestak!

:rofl:

He is obviously a pillar of virtue and a supporter of all things liberal.

I'm ambivalent, but Specter is what he is.

[wisteria]

70. You know what you have with Senator Specter. n/t

[No Elephants]

109. Yep, A man who switches back and forth between Democrat and Republican according to his poll numbers

[defendandprotect]

133. Yes . . . the man who was a primary aid in coverup and

whitewashing the assassination of President John F. Kennedy!

A man who threatened many of the witnesses --

and "doctored" testimony --

Not to mention the filthy role he played in the persecution of

Prof. Anita Hill in order to put a Republican pervert on the Supreme Court!!

[No Elephants]

119. Too bad no Democrat is running for Senate in PA, then.

Ironic, eh? Many jackasses, but no Democrat?

[wisteria]

33. That ad is dubbed. Specter switch parties because he was no longer wanted in the Republican

party because he is his own man. He switched so he could have more of a chance to serve the people of PA.
If you want to believe a dubbed commerical with a voice that is made to sound creepy and vote for a person who does not see anything wrong with promoting commericals like that or taking Republican money to run the ads, well,please think twice.

[AlinPA]

41. I am thinking: Why didn't he switch to be a Democrat 6 years ago? 12 years ago?

18 years ago?... Also, his campaigning for Palin makes one wonder about his judgement. It wasn't just "for political reasons" - he really supported her and said he voted for her and McCain.

[wisteria]

59. Because the Republican party was not so pure minded then and he had

committee chairmanships that come with Senate longevity that he did not want to give up. He did in fact give up being the senior senator from PA-Casey holds that title now) and all of his chairmanships and leadership roles on all his committees to become a Democrat.

[No Elephants]

114. He gave up his principles, too. He changed his votes.

Please. Spectre does what benefits Spectre. Always has. Always will.

ETA: He didn't switch Parties years ago because he wanted to be a Republican. There can be no doubt of that.

[No Elephants]

111. Nah. He switched because polls showed he would lost the Republican primary. He did the same thing

years ago when he switched from Democrat to Republican because that gave him a better chance of winning.

His Party choices have always been about his chances of winning.

Don't know what went down when he switched from Democrat to Republican, but he clearly traded his votes in the Senate of the United States for help from Obama and the DNC in this election.

It's not about an ad.

[No Elephants]

113. That is true without a doubt. Just google. Polls were showing he could not win a Republican primary

So, he made a deal with Obama. He traded his vote as a Senator for Obama's support in this election.

At one point, Spectre forgot which Party he was in and said something out of line, then "corrected" himself after Democrats leaned on him.


Obama offered Sestak a job to spare Spectre a primary fight with Sestak. Sestak refused the job.

Just google. You'll fine all of the above.

[MgtPA]

42. I agree with everything you've said about Specter. One has to have lived a lifetime in Pa to

understand what you've been trying to convey (I remember when Arlen was a Democrat in the mid-1960's).

[wisteria]

61. Thank you, as you can see I am out numbered here, but I feel I have to defend the senator

from a lot of nonsense. If Senator Specter is not reelected, it will be like a part of my past is gone and the future too. You know he is a good man-no matter what party he associates himself with. I still hold out hope he will pull out a win. I think it will depend on turn out. We need to push this like a general election and let people know what is at stake if Senator Specter is not reelected.

[icee]

88. I agree 100 per cent. I like and respect Senator Specter. He joined

the Democratic Party and took a big risk for himself in doing so. I agree with Kerry. I view Sestak with mounting suspicion, but should he win, I will support him. However, I view Specter as a man for all seasons.

[unkachuck]

16. Is there a Specter haunting Washington?

....not for long....

[BootinUp]

72. I would rather see Sestak in there. nt

[wisteria]

73. If you don't live in PA, I don't care who you like. But, I have to ask, do you know anything about

Sestak?

[BootinUp]

75. I have never heard anything I had a strong distaste for

enlighten me if you wish.

[wisteria]

79. Sestak.

He actually has a very concervative voting record.

Dispite claiming to be the Democrat in the race, he has only been a Democrat for four years. He was a registered Independent before then. (Specter by the way, was a Kennedy Democrat years ago, so the party isn't new to him)

Sestak has been taking any and all Republican money he can get his hands on- Richard Mellon Scaife- of Ken Starr fame has given Sestak the maximimum amount allowd, not because he likes Sestak, but because he wants to see Specter defeated. Sestak has no problem accepting this money.

Sestak was releived of his leadership post for creating a poor command climate, which seems to go along with references to his treating staff other than family, badly. And, when asked to release his military records he becomes defensive and refuses to do so.

He pays many of his workers less than minimum wage.

He make acusations about contacts in Washington offering him things to stay out of the race, but then refuses to name names. This sound opportunist to me.

He has only been a Congressman for four years, has never ran in a state-wide general election and will more than likely lose a general election.

Watch this clip below, it explains a lot.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/ns/msnbc_tv-hardball_with_chris_matthews#37028015

[BootinUp]

81. I don't see anything wrong with his voting

His ratings from interest groups looks excellent to me.

The rest of it is just pretty lame imho.

I couldn't care less if he was registered independent when he was in the military.

I still prefer him over Specter, he will be a more liberal Senator.

So he won a tough district before but can't win statewide in PA, ok sure.

[dugaresa]

89. not to nit pick but don't a lot of people work for campaigns for nothing?

so what is the big deal about that particular point? Hell i know people working for Arlen that aren't getting paid and they send me about twenty emails a day and are doing GOTV activities.

Now if Sestak were paying full time employees below minimum wage or was hiring illegals to do work that is another issue, but campaign work appears to be a fuzzy area.

[No Elephants]

125. LOL, you criticize Sestak for switching from Independent to Democratic four years ago.

Meanwhile, Spectre was a Republican for over 40 years and switched to Democratic a lot less than four years ago.

Double standard much?

A Kennedy Democrat? Give me a break.

Spectre was Democratic briefly, when he thought being a Democrat was good for his career. He switched to Republican when he thought that would be better for his career. He switched back recently because it was clear that he could not win the Republican primary.

If Sestak is a jerk, too, then you have no Democrats running for the Senate in PA this time. Too bad.

[wisteria]

78. Here is a link from Harball, where Sestak is evasive and stumbles trying to find

excuses not to release his military records. Ed Rendell is on first with some great comments and there is a Kerry reference.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/ns/msnbc_tv-hardball_with_chris_matthews#37028015

[MgtPA]

91. I saw that live and was less than impressed with Sestak's response/performance.

He better polish that up if he expects to go up against Toomey in the general. I don't think the military records thing is going away.

[karynnj]

121. Actually Mathews comments unintentionally back Sestak not releasing his records

Listen to that Kerry reference. He says that Kerry didn't release his - the fact is that they were on his website as early as April 2004. (I saw a thread on the K/E board where people went there to verify his eye colour - I hope the records were looked at for more important reasons.) But, Mathews was on tv then commenting constantly - did he really miss that they were there?

[No Elephants]

130. Matthews is 100% correct. Kerry released his full records only AFTER the 2004 election.

Prior to that, he released only some of the records.

[karynnj]

146. Not true - everything was there in 2004 (all but medical was on his website)

They were up on his web site in 2004 - I actually read them so I could intelligently answer any SBVT comments when phonebanking. That shows that even someone as politically active as you did not know this - though it was very publicly announced.

When he signed a release for three newspapers in 2005, they reported that the reports (except for 1 page) were EXACTLY what Kerry had had on his website - other than the medical records - which were exactly what the press was shown when it what was open. The one page discrepancy was simply a cover sheet to his last Vietnam fitness report. It repeated the praise from the report and recommended accelerated promotion. Kerry had never been given that sheet himself and there is obviously no likelihood that he intentionally hid it)

Here is a site that archived them - http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/election2004/docs.html Note the source - John Kerry for President. Why? It was put up on the web before he was the nominee - before it would have been the Kerry/Edwards campaign.

Now the Republicans constantly repeated that "they weren't all the records". But I carefully looked - the fitness reports span the ful interval. In addition, veterans on the K/E blog said this was complete.

What was missing per the Republicans? There were no reprimands of Kerry, no reports of bad behavior, nothing negative. They were looking for something that did not exist. When they didn't find it they made stuff up. In addition to all the SBVT stuff, on election day the NY Sun printed a completely fictitious story. They claimed Kerry did not get an honorable discharge. Their proof - he went to Boston College Law school! In Tour of Duty, Brinkley wrote that after losing in 1972, Kerry worked 3 jobs to pay the debt he had from the campaign and about a half year later decided he wanted to go to law school. It was way past the time applications had to be in - so Harvard would not consider him - Boston College was willing to accept him immediately. (Kerry's connections to their ex Dean Fr Drinan likely helped.)

So, how does that prove he had a dishonorable discharge? Well, they said an "anonymous Harvard official at the time" said that they wouldn't take him because he could not pass the bar with that discharge. Now, Kerry did obviously pass the bar - so how do they explain that? They then say that by the time he did, he had benefited by a global pardon issued by Carter. One problem there - Kerry passed the bar the month after he graduated (while already working at the Middlesex prosecutor's office) in June 1976. Carter, of course did not take office until January 1977.

It also assumes that the Nixon administration kept this quiet in 1972 - while they were engaged in a dirty tricks campaign against Kerry - not to mention, on the Nixon tapes, Nixon is informed that Kerry was a clean cut war hero.

[Unvanguard]

80. Toomey will destroy Specter. The only chance of holding that seat lies with Sestak.

And Sestak will be a more reliable vote. I know where my vote is going.

[PassingFair]

87. I hope you are working as hard as the other guys in this thread...

:thumbsup:

[Ian David]

90. So, now that we know what the topic will be for the FIRST hour...

...what else will Randi Rhodes talk about today?

"Help Is On The Way" my ass.

[CanonRay]

92. Perfect example of the "Good Ole Boys" club.

[mvd]

112. Sorry, Kerry. I'm voting for Sestak

I don't think Sestak is all THAT liberal. And in debates he comes across as a little slow to to react. But I just don't trust that Specter won't go back to being the Repuke who voted mostly with Bush/Cheney.

After looking at Onorato more, I have decided I'm voting for Hoeffel after all. Found out that Hoeffel supports single payer, and Onorato has been involved in come controversies, like on abortion rights.

[No Elephants]

128. Good for you. I'll be speaking to family members in Pennsylvania today.

All but one always votes Democratic and the one almost always votes Democratic.

I'll be pushing for Sestak. In my book, Spectre is a long-time Republican who was Democratic in name only twice, both times when he thought it would help his career. IOW, he'll sell his principles on a dime to win an election, IMO.

If nothing else, voting for Sestak will send a message that Democrats won't vote for a career Republican.

I'm very sorry someone more left than both Sestak and Spectre isn't running. As usual, though, the choice is the one who is less objectionable, or, in this case, less Republican.

[politicasista]

145. It is ok to disagree

Me has no dogs and cats in this fight. Be nice if they could kick Alexander or Corker out, but they just get elected and re-elected. Our next gov will (hope not!) probably be a repuke coming in after a Dem and one of the worst (the worst?) natural disasters in TN history.