Sonoma County CA separates elderly gay couple and sells their home

[kpete]

Source: The Bilerico Project

Sonoma County CA separates elderly gay couple and sells their home
Filed by: Kate Kendell
April 17, 2010 4:00 PM
Print

Clay and his partner of 20 years, Harold, lived in California. Clay and Harold made diligent efforts to protect their legal rights, and had their legal paperwork in place--wills, powers of attorney, and medical directives, all naming each other. Harold was 88 years old and in frail medical condition, but still living at home with Clay, 77, who was in good health.

One evening, Harold fell down the front steps of their home and was taken to the hospital. Based on their medical directives alone, Clay should have been consulted in Harold's care from the first moment. Tragically, county and health care workers instead refused to allow Clay to see elderly_man.jpgHarold in the hospital. The county then ultimately went one step further by isolating the couple from each other, placing the men in separate nursing homes.

Ignoring Clay's significant role in Harold's life, the county continued to treat Harold like he had no family and went to court seeking the power to make financial decisions on his behalf. Outrageously, the county represented to the judge that Clay was merely Harold's "roommate." The court denied their efforts, but did grant the county limited access to one of Harold's bank accounts to pay for his care.



Without authority, without determining the value of Clay and Harold's possessions accumulated over the course of their 20 years together or making any effort to determine which items belonged to whom, the county took everything Harold and Clay owned and auctioned off all of their belongings. Adding further insult to grave injury, the county removed Clay from his home and confined him to a nursing home against his will. The county workers then terminated Clay and Harold's lease and surrendered the home they had shared for many years to the landlord.

Read more: http://www.bilerico.com/2010/04/sonoma_county_ca_separa...

[babylonsister]

1. Words fail. How totally without compassion, by so many people, and

then there are the legalities. How can this possibly happen? So disgusting.

[pitohui]

39. it's easy to use "legalities" aga. the old (see my other post)

sick elderly people, esp. when adjusting to their medications, can appear to be confused, some "authority" gets a power of attorney, and that's it, game over, their property is now under the control of someone else and they have lost their rights...

we live in a predatory capitalist society

the individuals working for the county go along w. imprisoning BOTH men -- note, the younger healthier man was also placed aga. his will in a nursing home -- because they ALSO profit, i promise you that they were allowed to loot the home of the "disappeared" possessions, anyone who thinks that stuff ended up in a junkyard is delusional, the employees got lots of stuff, undoubtedly sold some of it for good money, and now they're all implicated in the crime/cover-up because they've ALL profited from robbing the elders

that's my opinion how it happened and i'd be v. surprised if i was wrong

people in groups don't have much conscience, esp. if they are all dividing the spoils

[ruggerson]

69. It's possible because of Prop 8 unfortunately

and all the people who voted for it are directly responsible for this kind of horror story.

[Betty Karlson]

188. May God damn them to Hell.

I know it is not a Christian sentiment, but after throwing up for reading this horror story, I'm not in the mood for subtlety.

[muffin1]

191. Sounds pretty christian to me.

Like every christian I've ever known, anyway!

[Betty Karlson]

199. Yeah, Kierkegaard's said the same thing:

"Whenever I am among the gentiles, I see a thousand reasons to be a Christian. But whenever I am among the Christians, I see a thousand reasons not to be one."

[HillbillyBob]

71. Happens every damn day. I have seen it repeatedly

Usually its the 'real' family that comes in on the death of one and fucks the other over and puts them on the street.

One friend of mine whose partner passed of HIV related cancer the survivor only had a few months to live. His partners nephew whom neither had ever met came down to Fla and had the sheriff put an eviction notice on the door. They had taken a rundown duplex in a rough part of town and fixed it up. The nephews mother was an evilgelical and seems to have urged the nephew to steal the property from the surviving one, they had titles, wills, deeds etc.
Rather than live his remaining months on the streets(we would have taken him in) he got the gas for the lawn mower and set himself and the house on fire rather than live on the streets.
I would do the same.

[Joe Bacon]

154. Sad but true.

Heartbreaking taking the call from a widower who lost his husband and now has no Social Security. The widower never worked, now he's lost everything as his husband's family swooped in and took everything and tossed him out in the street with nothing. He was crying on the phone asking for immediate help. He went to the Salvation Army and was turned away. All I could do is refer him to private charity for immediate help as he begged me to not refer him to any churches because they slammed the door on him. So sad.

[Love Bug]

159. This kind of thing happens to heterosexual couples, too

My friend's mother took care of her ailing live-in boyfriend for the last few years of his life until he succumbed to cancer last year. His family showed up and took all of his belongings, including his car, leaving her with no transportation. Of course, none of them ever bothered to offer help or money while he was sick...

I'm not trying to diminish what happened to these two men in the op's post but just wanted to point out that legal marriage offers protections like nothing else, no matter how careful the couple is or how many ways they try to make sure all possible legal documents are in place.

[WVRICK13]

2. This Abuse Is All Based On

christian ideals and intrusion into government. Marriage is a legal contract, not a religious experience. Until we start fighting this nonsense on these grounds it appears hopeless. Can our government prevent a minority population from enjoying the same legal rights as the majority? That is the question. If they can, then we are not a free nation, nor a democracy and asshole Bush was right, the constitution is just a piece of paper.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

6. see that papist prig's message in malta today.

Did I say prig? I may have missed the spelling.

[marshall]

143. Marriage is also a sacrament--civil unions are wholly legal contracts

It does create confusion.

[NorthCarolina]

161. So, marriage by a Justice of the Peace would be a "sacrament"?

Not so sure about that one.

[marshall]

169. I said also--meaning marriage is more than one thing

I was replying to the comment that marriage is not a religious experience. Pointing out that is actually is a religious experience in some contexts, and in the justice of the peace context that you mention it is also a civic experience.

To be clear, my observation is that marriage is more than one thing, and that is the crux of the cultural divide.

[dbmk]

179. The crux is people wanting it to be only one thing

while screaming "Don't take away my freedom!".

[marshall]

185. Aye, that is the postmodern question

Folks want to pin things down into being only one thing.

[Gormy Cuss]

202. However, there is no need for a cultural divide here becauses churches distinguish their version as

holy or sacred marriage, a distinction not necessary unless the church also recognizes that some marriages aren't blessed. The cultural divide is based on the greater condemnation of anything gay.

[QC]

3. This kind of thing is why marriage equality is not a "pony" or a "little pet issue."

This is not the only, or even first, time something like this has happened.

This kind of thing was downright commonplace back in the early days of the AIDS epidemic, when relatives who had not been heard from for years routinely showed up the moment someone became sick or died and kicked his partner out on the streets and took all their possessions.

So no, marriage equality is not a pony, a pet issue, or even a fabulous pink pony, to quote someone whose tombstone was five years overdue. It is a basic human right of which too many people are still deprived.

[area51]

20. +1 (n/t)

[tbyg52]

63. +7 nt

[awoke_in_2003]

72. +1000...

the acts described are barbaric.

[Kajsa]

82. Thank you, QC!

One hundred here!

[MarshalltheIrish]

135. And there are plenty who'll still think that way after reading this

That's the worst part. That anyone can assume something as profound as marriage is just a petty privilege is sad enough. But dismantling an elderly couple's lives due to a lack of legal protection? Words just really fail me right now.

[Bluebear]

145. Meaanwhile, welcome to DU, Marshall.

[MarshalltheIrish]

152. Thanks!

Been here a few days, just love it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

195. Actually, they had legal protection which the law chose to ignore.

It sounds like they did everything right, living wills, powers-of-attorney, etc., except have a high-power attorney on hand to insist that the judge follow the law.

[Bluebear]

147. Good call. I noted so wayyy down before reading your wise words!

[Xipe Totec]

155. +1

I am livid with rage that this can happen.

[Starry Messenger]

165. Exactly.

Every single person who said that here should have been pushing up granite, IMO. So many. I have no words.

[myrna minx]

181. .

Exactly.

[mitchtv]

194. again and again

and again. god, how offensive it's been.

[ejpoeta]

4. 2nd class citizen status! wtf!! would they do that if it were a traditional male/female unmarried

couple who had been together that long!!

[HillbillyBob]

73. It does happen with 'straight' couples but not with

the regularity that it happens to us.
I have been hiv/aids for 28 yrs, in the early 90s I had cmv hep and was not expected to live more than a few months. I did not have much and this was just after several couples had one member pass and the other get screwed. I had my will probated and my best friend to get pretty much everything to do with as she would, mainly to sell it off and give the proceeds to Poverello an hiv food bank/thrift store in Wilton Manors and 1$ ea to my immediate family members and if anyone had any argument all would be sold and all would go to Pov.

[dmr]

100. The Poverello Center

The Poverello Center
2292 Wilton Drive
Wilton Manors, FL. 33305
Phone: [phone] - Fax: [phone]
http://www.poverello.org /

I remember Poverello when it was in Pompano Beach - a long, long time ago.

It makes my heart heavy remembering two old friends of mine, and how Father Bill helped to ease their suffering. I've been donating to Poverello for the past 18 or 19 years.

[proReality]

5. This makes me ill.

The people who did that to those men are empty and dark inside. Not human!

[Angry Dragon]

7. It is time to make numerous arrests

the workers need to be tried for theft and forfeit their homes also

[joanmj]

8. How sad

I hope an investigation is in the works.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. This story is far from unique

This is something I have seen many times. When people speak of 'defending marriage' this is what they are talking about. This is why those who oppose equal rights for all are vicious, bigoted, thoughtless and frankly, without any form of morality. This is why Obama's use of McClurkin and Warren was so completely insulting, Obama stood with those who wish to see such evil as this go on for all time. They call that 'good'.
Now the teacher Obama claims to worship never said a word against gay people. He did however say that those who neglect or do harm to the sick, the elderly, and the poor are doing those things to him, to the teacher they claim to worship, as they kick him out of his house, take his things, and remove from him his family, his friend.
And now we see why the hospital rules announcement was timed for this week. This story was breaking. They had to cover up their own actions. But the wee thing the President did would not help these men at all. And he knows it. He knows it. Yet he says nothing.
Just one song. Just one short prayer. You want a pony. Call the whambulence. Don't soil your pampers. Oh, it is just about that 'gay thing' again. Bona fides. The least of those among you.....

[MsLeopard]

17. Well said

I couldn't agree more, thank you for expressing it so well. K&R

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dana_b]

49. you nailed it

these men's lives have been totally ruined. they have been treated as incompetents with no rights and worse yet - as people with no purpose. Discrimination against a gay couple AND the elderly. If this were to happen to a hetero couple (yeah, right...) there would be protests for them.

[Solly Mack]

65. !

Yep!

[awoke_in_2003]

75. +1000. nt

[bertman]

116. Bluenorthwest, you nailed it. Thank you.

[suffragette]

180. Exactly

Well said, Bluenorthwest.

[Wizard777]

10. ANYONE and EVERYONE involved in this should be in JAIL!

This is far more than abuse of a gay couple. It's elder abuse and a huge abuse of authority.

[glinda]

15. I agree.

[cstanleytech]

27. Assuming legal papers the couple signed were legit you are correct

about that.
The judge should be dismissed from the bench and he and all the attorneys who made this happen should be disbarred.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud patriot]

40. or have their end of life wishes treated w/ the same disdane

[eagertolearn]

52. Elder abuse is illegal. Who was overseeing all of this...legal counsel?

[Betty]

11. this is the government interfering in private lives

wonder if there is a teabagger in the entire country that would be outraged by this????

[lonestarnot]

12. Outrageous!

Despicable fools. Totally fucking wrong.

[tandot]

13. Fuckers

every single one of these county employees who had their hand in this

[quakerboy]

148. To be fair... This could be just a few people responsible

I disagree with other postings supposing corruption up and down the system.

If one overzealous caseworker started this, and was the contact person, it is possible for that caseworker to cause this without involving all that many other people at any level of real awareness.

For instance, the people who had the job of selling off the couple's possessions probably had never met the couple, were probably completely unaware that they were still alive or in the area. Likely all they had was what appeared to be properly stamped paperwork, and experience from working Tax or Repo claims, and no idea this wasn't just another tax evader.

Similarly, the nursing home staff. As someone who has had a lot of personal interactions with family and others with Alzheimer's or dementia, do you know how common it is for an older person in a nursing home to feel the need to "get home"? I often get to know more back story than the staff who actually work in the homes, as I often get to work with families, and spend the time getting to know people. Even for me, getting the relatively "fun" part of most interactions there, its heartbreaking how often they want to go home but cannot. How often it turns out that home no longer exists for them either physically or metaphorically, with the loved one they are missing having passed on. And I am there to help out, to try to provide some social interaction. I cant think that the actual care workers who are there long hours, who are making as close to minimum as makes no difference, etc, probably cant help but block most of the plea's out just so that they can function to accomplish the very necessary tasks to make sure that physical well being is attended to. How are they going to know the truth of more than what the court appointed caretaker tells them?

Its hard, because at so many levels our system is provided to do mass work, in situations where a personal touch could make a world of difference. But then, if you flip that, you have other problems. What do you do with it? How do you make sure no one is demolished by a system?

I think that in this case it is clear that someone overstepped their bounds. Probably more than one someone. But lets establish who is at fault before condemning everyone within a 3 mile radius, when most of them probably were doing exactly what they were supposed to, having been given false information to start from.

[undergroundnomore]

14. first of all

This is a heinous example of how little organizations and government institutions (like the courts) seem to care about human beings. The certainly lack human compassion.

Second of all, I thought Obama made it clear that people in such situations as this have the RIGHT to be with their significant other (oh trust me it should say Husband or Wife but all that legal mumbo jumbo).

Third of all how in the hell can all this happen when you have dotted all your i's and crossed your t's with the courts? I thought the courts upheld the LAW.

Maybe it's me that's the stupid fool. I just don't understand how this can happen. Not once, night twice, but seemingly more than we care to admit!

[sam sarrha]

36. this is a prime example of Fasco-Theocratic extremism.. "Dominionism", it is part and parcel of the

GOP.. it is seed from which the NeoCons grew.. The GOP is simply a puppet arm of the Oligarchy that runs this country.. it isn't the Liberals that will take our guns, it is the GOP. what they have in mind for us is the stuff people fight to the death against.. to save their children an their country.

http://doggo.tripod.com/doggchrisdomin.html
"snip...Leo Strauss was born in 1899 and died in 1973. ... He is most famous for resuscitating Machiavelli and introducing his principles as the guiding philosophy of the neo-conservative movement. ... More than any other man, Strauss breathed upon conservatism, inspiring it to rise from its atrophied condition and its natural dislike of change and to embrace an unbounded new political ideology that rides on the back of a revolutionary steed, hailing even radical change; hence the name Neo-Conservatives.

Significantly, Dominionism is a form of Social Darwinism.<48> It inherently includes the religious belief that wealth-power is a sign of God’s election. That is, out of the masses of people and the multitude of nations, wealth, in and of itself, is thought to indicate God’s approval on men and nations whereas poverty and sickness reflect God’s disapproval.

(It was not until I read this article that I realized that this is a fundamental tenet of Dominionists.

Worldly wealth and power are signs of God's favor -- to attempt to limit or decrease one's wealth and power is to disrespect God.

On the contrary, God's elect on Earth are called upon to increase their wealth and power.

It is not sufficient for a man to be a millionaire, or for a country to have sovereignty within its borders -- a man must strive to increase his wealth as much as possible, and a Dominionist government's behavior toward its neighbors must be "invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity".

Furthermore, any attempt to decrease a person's or a country's wealth and power -- to take from the rich to give to the poor, to reduce military spending and power -- is a direct attack on God.)

If “Secular Humanists are the greatest threat to Christianity the world has ever known,” as theologian Francis Schaeffer claimed, then who are the Humanists? According to Dominionists, humanists are the folks who allow or encourage licentious behavior in America. They are the undisciplined revelers.

Put all the enemies of the Dominionists together, boil them down to liquid and bake them into the one single most highly derided and contaminated individual known to man, and you will have before you an image of the quintessential “liberal” -- one of those folks who wants to give liberally to the poor and needy -- who desires the welfare and happiness of all Americans -- who insists on safety regulations for your protection and who desires the preservation of your values -- those damnable people are the folks that must be reduced to powerlessness -- or worse: extinction.

What would a “reconstructed” America look like under the Dominionists? K.L. Gentry, a Dominionist himself, suggests the following “elements of a theonomic approach to civic order,” which I strongly suggest should be compared to the Texas GOP platform of 2002, which reveals that we are not just talking about imaginary ideas but some things are already proposed on Republican agendas.<60> Dominionism’s concept of government according to Gentry is as follows:

“1. It obligates government to maintain just monetary policies ... fiat money, fractional reserve banking, and deficit spending.

“2. It provides a moral basis for elective government officials. ...

“3. It forbids undue, abusive taxation of the rich. ...

“4. It calls for the abolishing of the prison system and establishing a system of just restitution. *...

“5. A theonomic approach also forbids the release, pardoning, and paroling of murderers by requiring their execution. ...

“6. It forbids industrial pollution that destroys the value of property. ...

“7. It punishes malicious, frivolous malpractice suits. ...

“8. It forbids abortion rights. ... Abortion is not only a sin, but a crime, and, indeed, a capital crime.”<61>
. . .

* Gary North describes the ‘just restitution’ system of the bible, which happens to reinstitute slavery,
like this:


“At the other end of the curve, the poor man who steals is eventually caught and sold into bondage under a successful person. His victim receives payment; he receives training; his buyer receives a stream of labor services. If the servant is successful and buys his way out of bondage, he re-enters society as a disciplined man, and presumably a self-disciplined man. He begins to accumulate wealth.” ...snip"
--------------------------------------------- this is Palins job resume.!!



and this is proof how much they are in control... bottom 80% americans only have 7% of the nations financial wealth.. !! and they say Socialism sucks..

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth....
This document presents details on the wealth and income distributions in the United States, and explains how we use these two distributions as power indicators.

Some of the information might be a surprise to many people. The most amazing numbers on income inequality come last, showing the change in the ratio of the average CEO's paycheck to that of the average factory worker over the past 40 years

it's no joke.. the END is near..!! like one paycheck away

[LiberalFighter]

142. The right you refer to only effects hospitals and is not immediate.

[jmowreader]

16. Maybe we should stop calling them "gay couples"

As far as I'm concerned, they're a "couple." They've been together for twenty years. They've become a family even without paperwork from the state. What those antisocial workers did to them was an abomination.

Call them a "gay couple" and quite a bit of this country will think "ah, those (insert favorite anti-gay epithet here) got what they deserved. Why don't they just go off and die of AIDS or something?" Tell the same people a "couple" went through this, and it'll be all "that's terrible" and "those government bureaucrats should all be shot."

This won't work with teabaggers and freepers; they have no problem hating the government and hating gays in the same breath. But not everyone to the right of us is a teabagger or a freeper.

[rhett o rick]

26. Excellent point. This has nothing to do with sexual orientation. It's nobody's

business if they were sexual partners or non-sexual partners. They were partners, for the lack of a better word. They were friends and they undoubtedly loved each other. But in our FU society, its taboo to love someone of the same sex unless it's a father and son, and even then it can be made uncomfortable. IMO Christianity hasnt helped this situation.

[DiverDave]

18. Is there anyone standing up

for these guys?

Point me in a direction, I want to scream at someone!

Dave

[handmade34]

23. we all need to do a lot of screaming

this kind of behavior makes me nauseous

more of the article:

"With the help of a dedicated and persistent court-appointed attorney, Anne Dennis of Santa Rosa, Clay was finally released from the nursing home. Ms. Dennis, along with Stephen O'Neill and Margaret Flynn of Tarkington, O'Neill, Barrack & Chong, now represent Clay in a lawsuit against the county, the auction company, and the nursing home, with technical assistance from NCLR. A trial date has been set for July 16, 2010 in the Superior Court for the County of Sonoma.

Read more about NCLR's Elder Law Project.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you disturbed by the story of how Clay Greene was treated by the County? Please post this, pass it on, do whatever you can to help raise the visibility of what happened to Clay.

Also, please write a letter to the local paper, the Press Democrat (owned by The New York Times) asking them to do some investigative reporting on the Greene v. County of Sonoma case. So far they have ignored the story.

Send a letter to the editor at [e-mail] . Include the story and a link to this post.

Want to stay up to date on this case? Follow NCLR and Bilerico Project on Twitter"

[Dappleganger]

21. This is precisely why civil rights should not be left up to the States...

the tyranny of the majority.

This should never happen in America.

[handmade34]

25. excellent point

[Lars39]

35. Nor up to executive order that can be undone by the next president.

That poor couple.

[Enthusiast]

84. You are so right! nt

[rhett o rick]

22. Outrageous. nm

[Orrex]

24. What ghastly bullshit.

I wish that this would end happily, with Clay and Harold winning a multi-million dollar lawsuit against Sonoma County.


Horrible.

[voteearlyvoteoften]

28. Please tell me this is not true

I want to help these people.

[northernlights]

29. not just immoral and cruel...this is just plain criminal

Kidnapping and theft. Plain and simple. I hope some good-hearted attorney is able to help them both, pro bono.
Sue that effing county...they had no right to steal their belongings and auction them off. No right to kidnap Clay and confine him to a nursing home. No right to make medical decisions for Harold.

Disgusting. In an odd kind of way, sadly, it supports one of the Freeper's fear of "big government." The worst of their world in one beast...an intrusive, overbearing local government by Kristian Fundamentalist thugs.

[sam sarrha]

38. to a Dominionist this is government.. GOP is run by the Dominionists..Link>>

http://doggo.tripod.com/doggchrisdomin.html
"snip...Leo Strauss was born in 1899 and died in 1973. ... He is most famous for resuscitating Machiavelli and introducing his principles as the guiding philosophy of the neo-conservative movement. ... More than any other man, Strauss breathed upon conservatism, inspiring it to rise from its atrophied condition and its natural dislike of change and to embrace an unbounded new political ideology that rides on the back of a revolutionary steed, hailing even radical change; hence the name Neo-Conservatives.

Significantly, Dominionism is a form of Social Darwinism.<48> It inherently includes the religious belief that wealth-power is a sign of God’s election. That is, out of the masses of people and the multitude of nations, wealth, in and of itself, is thought to indicate God’s approval on men and nations whereas poverty and sickness reflect God’s disapproval.

(It was not until I read this article that I realized that this is a fundamental tenet of Dominionists.

Worldly wealth and power are signs of God's favor -- to attempt to limit or decrease one's wealth and power is to disrespect God.

On the contrary, God's elect on Earth are called upon to increase their wealth and power.

It is not sufficient for a man to be a millionaire, or for a country to have sovereignty within its borders -- a man must strive to increase his wealth as much as possible, and a Dominionist government's behavior toward its neighbors must be "invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity".

Furthermore, any attempt to decrease a person's or a country's wealth and power -- to take from the rich to give to the poor, to reduce military spending and power -- is a direct attack on God.)

If “Secular Humanists are the greatest threat to Christianity the world has ever known,” as theologian Francis Schaeffer claimed, then who are the Humanists? According to Dominionists, humanists are the folks who allow or encourage licentious behavior in America. They are the undisciplined revelers.

Put all the enemies of the Dominionists together, boil them down to liquid and bake them into the one single most highly derided and contaminated individual known to man, and you will have before you an image of the quintessential “liberal” -- one of those folks who wants to give liberally to the poor and needy -- who desires the welfare and happiness of all Americans -- who insists on safety regulations for your protection and who desires the preservation of your values -- those damnable people are the folks that must be reduced to powerlessness -- or worse: extinction.

What would a “reconstructed” America look like under the Dominionists? K.L. Gentry, a Dominionist himself, suggests the following “elements of a theonomic approach to civic order,” which I strongly suggest should be compared to the Texas GOP platform of 2002, which reveals that we are not just talking about imaginary ideas but some things are already proposed on Republican agendas.<60> Dominionism’s concept of government according to Gentry is as follows:

“1. It obligates government to maintain just monetary policies ... fiat money, fractional reserve banking, and deficit spending.

“2. It provides a moral basis for elective government officials. ...

“3. It forbids undue, abusive taxation of the rich. ...

“4. It calls for the abolishing of the prison system and establishing a system of just restitution. *...

“5. A theonomic approach also forbids the release, pardoning, and paroling of murderers by requiring their execution. ...

“6. It forbids industrial pollution that destroys the value of property. ...

“7. It punishes malicious, frivolous malpractice suits. ...

“8. It forbids abortion rights. ... Abortion is not only a sin, but a crime, and, indeed, a capital crime.”<61>
. . .

* Gary North describes the ‘just restitution’ system of the bible, which happens to reinstitute slavery,
like this:


“At the other end of the curve, the poor man who steals is eventually caught and sold into bondage under a successful person. His victim receives payment; he receives training; his buyer receives a stream of labor services. If the servant is successful and buys his way out of bondage, he re-enters society as a disciplined man, and presumably a self-disciplined man. He begins to accumulate wealth.” ...snip"

[Enthusiast]

87. Is it any wonder

that this country is fucked up?

[DiverDave]

197. God help us

are there people who think this way?

Man, if there are I've seen my enemy.

[sam sarrha]

200. palins church smacks of this.. they are connected with Joel's Army

[WillParkinson]

30. Yes, Mr. President....

You go ahead and not agree with gay marriage.

After all, separate but unequal is OK.

[NorthCarolina]

162. But, but, but...Obama's a "Fierce Advocate" of the LGBT community...

But then again...talk is cheap, especially at election time.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[varelse]

33. This is an appalling abuse of power

not to mention a complete failure of compassion and humanity.

Wizard777 is right - people should be jailed for this abuse.

[Auggie]

34. I wish The Bilerico Project named names

I've been trying to find who the authorities are behind this but have drawn a blank. Can't even find the court case filing on the Sonoma Superior Court website: http://www.sonomasuperiorcourt.com/index.php?v=cprG&v=c...

[EFerrari]

45. The case is Greene v The County of Sonoma et al. n/t

[EFerrari]

51. I can't find anything either. They seem to have an in house system

that is searchable by the public. Nothing in recent filings.

[Ms. Toad]

78. It is out of the date range

on the search page you linked to. Sonoma County discussed in in November (so it was filed sometime November or earlier), and the docket you were searching started in December.

The case number is: SPR-81815

Here is a link to upcoming activity: http://www.sonomasuperiorcourt.com/index.php?v=civilcou...

I haven't found a way to access historical information for cases filed before December, and another page suggests that you have to go to the court and use their pubic access station (for a fee) to get case information.

[Auggie]

101. The county authorities need to be exposed

Great digging. Thanks.

[pitohui]

37. this is a pretty bold theft

judging from the shitty experiences of my family this isn't a gay/straight issue, this is a "you're old and every predator under the sun starts to look for ways to get you declared incompetent so they can steal yr shit" issue -- the relatives i've had robbed were not gay couples, but they were victimized just the same

i'm guessing the possessions were of great value, esp. the home, hence the hospital/nursing home and county had a HUGE motive to steal them

the younger, healthier guy ALSO being placed in the nursing home aga. his will -- this wasn't because he was gay, it was because he was standing in the way of the property grab -- at 77 he wasn't young enough to be able to defend himself aga. bogus claims of being incompetent

what do you bet these county workers went thru the house first and helped themselves to all sorts of valuable antiques first? "oh that's junk, that's going to be thrown out, i'll just take it home and sell it on ebay myself for about $10,000..." i can GUARANTEE for a fact that's what happened

we need stronger protection for all couples, married or not, and for all single old people too, because they get targeted and robbed like this even more often

marriage would be a part protection for this couple, but in many cases, thieves this bold would still find a way to get BOTH declared incompetent so they could loot the property -- in fact, getting BOTH confined to nursing homes was exactly what happened and could have (prob. would have) still happened even if they were married -- in addition to marriage you really need a younger trusted family member or a damn good attorney or BOTH to look out for your rights when you're that age

someone needs to go to jail REAL BAD but if my family's experience is any guide they won't -- it's open season on vulnerable elderly in this country, be confused on medications one day, somebody gets a court order while you're confused, and that's it, you're screwed, locked up in a nursing home while that somebody else runs off with a lifetime of your work and savings

[DesertDiamond]

41. As hard as it is to find someone who will stick with us through old age, sickness and death...

When two people actually find that... how HORRIBLE that that is not cherished by everyone around them!!!

[EFerrari]

42. Am I wrong or aren't there studies that show senior's health is impacted

by the loss of their partner and that there is a one year window were widow/ers are at risk of death?

[Ishoutandscream2]

124. Don't know about studies, but I sure have some anecdotal evidence

My Grandparents, great uncle and aunt - one dies, the other was dead within 6 months.

[EFerrari]

125. I've read about it sort of randomly over and over but here's one:

Despite Medical Advancement, American Widows Still Face Higher Mortality Risk
Saturday, December 05, 2009 at 10:04:28 AM


Read more: Despite Medical Advancement, American Widows Still Face Higher Mortality Risk http://www.medindia.net/news/Despite-Medical-Advancemen...

[TankLV]

43. Someone needs to sue on their behalf - individually and collectively.

Civil and Criminal courts.

These rightwing repuke assholes - and my assumptions on this will be born out I bet you - need to SUFFER PERSONALLY.

It's not simply good enough to hide behind the county/government and punish the taxpayers who had nothing to do with this - this was an INTENTIONAL and mean spirited action taken by the INDIVIDUALS responsible for this!

[WileEcoyote]

44. Sonoma County does these brutal things all the time.

Evidence suggests that the Sheriff's office flies helicopter runs over the towns looking for backyard Marijuana plants. When nothing turns up by air they do door to door house sweeps and illegal search/seizures.

Ask me about it sometime.

[plantwomyn]

46. All I can say is...

[kestrel91316]

47. The phrase "crime against humanity" comes to mind........

[Odin2005]

48. There are no words.

[radhika]

50. Sonoma has disgraced itself in the eyes of humanity n/t

[TheDebbieDee]

53. I hope the ACLU or SOMEBODY is suing the hell out of Sonoma County!

What good does it do to have medical directives and Powers-of-Attorney on file dictating your wishes if local authorities can just IGNORE them?

[AwakeAtLast]

54. If they do this to an elderly couple, they can do this to anyone

regardless of whether they are GLBT. A totally outrageous miscarriage of justice!

[icymist]

55. GLBT = non human in this society.

[jody]

56. If the legal paperwork was in place, then the courts were clearly wrong in overriding them. That's

true whatever the relationship between two individuals.

[FBarnett]

57. On County Agenda on this page

http://www.sonoma-county.org/board/meetings/meeting_200...

--Fred Barnett

[EFerrari]

62. Last November. Thanks, Fred. n/t

[fascisthunter]

58. pure hatred would incline people to separate an elderly couple

I hope this comes back to seriously bite those making this decision.

[roody]

59. I just hate these communist dictatorships!!!

[queerart]

60. I Am So Sick Of........

Queers wanting "special rights", as they simply don't need them!


Enough already! Society should be able to treat filthy Queers as the aberration that they are......


... and give us all a break with these news stories about "Oh look at the mean people keeping this couple loving, long term apart"....



Society should be able to treat these people any way they want, and ~ NO ONE ~ should be impolite enough to point their bigotry in public so others can see just what pathetic fucks they really are.....


KARMA, FOLKS...... Karma is a very fucking funny thing indeed..... and for the Bible crowd "You Reap What You Sow"......

[earcandle]

61. This is what happened to my friend May H. as well. She managed to get herself back home

because she had been a real estate broker in her working days.
 She was set up with a paid off home, and Blue Cross, and had
savings to help her to live, and played the stock market.  At
95, she was walking to St. Mary's for lunches and one day,
while there, the glass door swung and hit her on the way out.
She had some therapy but a few months later she collapsed and
was taking to emergency.  After surgery, they put her in a
garage with other seniors to heal (was named a senior
citizen's rehab) and when she realized after she healed in
two months, that they weren't going to let her go home, and
that the city declared her incompetent and took all of her
stuff out of her home, and also spent all of her money, she
got an attorney and found her way back home.  

She wasn't able to take care of herself much longer, so she
ended up at Buena Vista Nursing Home, but she did sue and was
able to get the attorney's liens off her property.  Her house
is still there under her management.  She is going to be 99
now, and bright as a bunny.  I guess she is strong Ohio
farmer stock who got to be an independent thinker at an early
age, and still thrives.  One of my role models. 

It is terrible what is happening to people's homes and money
when they are old and have no children.  

[Solly Mack]

64. I'm livid.

[mzteris]

66. how can anyone treat others that way?

I don't care if they were freeper fundamentalists, you don't treat people that way. (the old guys, the perps probably ARE freeper fundies or something. They're certainly callous and ignorant and criminal!)

I want to and - all at the same time.

Those poor men.

[judesedit]

67. They MUST sue the county NOW! Someone please take this case pro bono. You will not be sorry.

Please help these people. This is shameful. Thankfully, what goes around comes around.

[Politicub]

68. Do people get off on kicking elderly GLBT people?

The people who perpetuated this injustice are evil through and through. There is no other explanation or excuse.

We need legislation NOW to project GLUT families. The President's memo and the hate crimes legislation were good starts, but there needs to be more.

It makes me cry that these two men who were committed to one another were kept apart by the state. I am also red with anger.

I have never met the "civil servants" and hospital staff who caused this to happen -- but I hate them to their very core and wish them nothing but pain for the rest of their lives. May they experience the same lack of compassion that they showed to this couple.

How is this different from a hate crime? The pain runs deeper and is more devastating than the most severe physical violence.

On edit - Sonoma county will never see a dime from me. Beautiful Russian river is in Sonoma and one of my favorite places in Calif., but it's not worth it to have even a penny of sales tax, hotel tax, etc. that I would spend there go to this fucked up county. And if I need to pass through when traveling somewhere else, I will go to their county courthouse and spit on it.

[awoke_in_2003]

77. No, i think they get off on

kicking all GLBT people.

[BrklynLiberal]

70. There are no words....

I sure hope that the lawsuit against the county, the auction company, and the nursing home results in permanent changes to this policy..and some kind of retribution for Clay.

This is horrifying...

[SoapBox]

74. CONTACT...CONTACT...CONTACT Board of Supervisors HERE

I say we call...and email...and write, asking, WHAT happened here?

Here is the contact page for the county Board of Supervisors:

http://supervisors.sonoma-county.org /

Next...move on to the Governor Arnold's offices:

http://gov.ca.gov/interact#contact

And here is how to contact Maria:

http://www.firstlady.ca.gov/contact /

And here is the San Francisco Chronicle:

http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/info/e-mail /
http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/submissions/#1

And here is the Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/about/mediagroup/la-mediagroup-c...
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-op-em...

And here is the Santa Rosa Press Democrat:

http://www.pressdemocrat.com /
[e-mail]

CONTACT anyone and everyone over this...PLEASE, tell your friends and famil. This story just makes me sick. It should make all decent Americans sick too.

[ooglymoogly]

91. Signed, sealed and delivered. nt

[annabanana]

98. +100 for valuable activist info!!!. . n/t

[pecwae]

190. Thank you.

This is going out to everyone I know.

[pnorman]

76. K & R!

For the valuable discusson.

[ooglymoogly]

79. Want to talk thuglican health care....this is it.

This should be taken up by democrats; Both to correct this situation and to use in campaigns to show what the pugs really think of as health care. Except for a few very large strongholds like SF, California is one step away from a Nazi wet dream. I was lucky enough to get the hell out of there at a young age. Does anyone know someone or have an in at the ACLU? This cannot go down unnoticed and swept under the rug with only a notice by a GLBT news outlet and DU. This story needs to go viral.

[ooglymoogly]

113. Correction....Just read the last paragraph of the article

Bravo to the Lawyers handling this case.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

80. Evil. Pure evil. Thank God Obama has set compassion in motion.

at least this WILL lead to continued action.....


still sitting here stunned

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

81. I live in Sonoma Co. and I just learned of this tragedy.

No words....

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

201. Press Democrat has online report....

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100420/ARTICLES/... -

I had to try several times to get it to load. Have only read the first page, as the server keeps dropping connection and page fails to load, but the county is calling "domestic abuse" the issue. I wonder what documents they have to justify what they have done.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

letter to editor today

Tuesday's Letters to the Editor

Published: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 at 3:00 a.m.
Last Modified: Monday, April 26, 2010 at 2:08 p.m.
COUNTY ACCUSATIONS

EDITOR: I am the executor of Harold Scull's estate and a true and long-time friend of Harold Scull and Clay Greene (“Gay rights lawsuit includes evidence of domestic abuse”). I knew Scull for nearly a half-century, and I have known Greene for a quarter-century. I am outraged at Sonoma County's false accusations that Greene abused Scull. Since he is unable to correct these claims, I feel that I must speak out about the county's accusations.



In the decades I knew this couple, I never witnessed abuse, and I am firmly convinced that no such abuse took place. What I have witnessed is the diabolical behavior of the county, which treated this couple shamefully and robbed them of their home, lifetime of treasures, freedom and what should have been their loving last days together.

I am confident that Greene will be vindicated, despite the county's efforts to malign his reputation in the press. The full story will come out at trial.

JANNETTE BIGGERSTAFF

Sonoma
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100427/OPINION/1...
or you may try: http://tinyurl.com/2fnalvq

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

204. duplicate

No idea why it posted twice...

[dotymed]

83. I do not think this is only

discrimination based on sexual preference, it also based on their age and financial status. It is SICK, but I don't think "they" would have done this to "Sir Elton John."

[ooglymoogly]

86. Because Elton John would have sued their ignorant pants off. nt

[ooglymoogly]

89. and to add: They would not have done it to an elderly straight couple.

and that is the crux. Trying to find excuses for this bigoted ignorance is, in itself, not very edifying, to put it politely.

[madrchsod]

95. i would`t bet on that...

unless there is a legal contract stating where or who the stuff goes to, a county can do just about anything it pleases .

but these guys went way beyond what was needed to be done. who knows...matbe the old guy had land worth a bundle.

[ooglymoogly]

109. Apparently the court allowed "limited access" to ONE of the accounts of the

person who fell. We all know what "limited" means in pugspeak.

[earcandle]

158. My friend May is a straight unmarried woman who bought her home in 1950 in Cole

Valley, and it happened to her too.  So its not gay or
straight, its vulnerable and no heirs. 

[feslen]

85. so what's so great about being "straight?"

when the "Law" created by "straight" people does shit like this? what makes "us" different? or better?


this is absolute BULL!#$#@

[unabelladonna]

88. sickening beyond mere words

i don't know what to say. how could this happen in sonoma county, california????????

[krispos42]

90. But but but... gay's don't need to get married! There are equally-effective arraingments...

...that can be made! Civil unions! Wharggggble!!!!

[madrchsod]

92. looks like they wanted his property and possessions to....

sell to cover the counties nursing home expenses.

i guess things are tough in the wine country....


http://www.sonoma-county.org/Human/

[ooglymoogly]

94. That would be, "The Town and Country" wine country.

And you can bet they are really hurting for cash.

[madrchsod]

96. when ever i see that county on the teevee ....

it sure seems to be a lot of swells...


i think the old guy had a good piece of property

[feslen]

150. maybe he has oil in them tharn hills

sarcasm

[ooglymoogly]

93. If these folks have any family; That family should sue

the counties pants off.

[Zenlitened]

97. They do have family. Each other. - n/t

[ooglymoogly]

104. Well that family has been effectively silenced.

as the heinous crime has already been committed, apparently with the courts blessing; although admittedly uninformed. They have effectively been swept under the rug, unless this story goes viral, and it might just do that. The folks that can make that happen read DU. The next step is for Huffpo to pick it up and the big one "Worst Persons in the World". First off this story must be investigated to find out what is really up. Some very unsettling and illegal things happened here that should scare the pants off any thinking person; If this story is factually correct and I'm betting, for the most part, it is, (having spent a good part of my life there) though there is at least one discrepancy; Selling the house rather than their life's possessions, though it does not make the story any less alarming.

[felinetta]

99. No humanity, no human decency. How do people who make these calls sleep??

[jmowreader]

140. The people they did it to are gay. That's how.

Five will get you ten, if the Sonoma County antisocial workers could have just whipped out Leviticus 20.13 and killed them both without suffering any consequences to themselves, they would have.

[npk]

102. If Clay owned the home

How in the world could the county kick him out of the home, involuntarily, and force him into a nursing home. I don't understand any of this. Even if they, meaning the county, only recognized Clay and his partner as roommates, that still wouldn't give them the right to just force Clay from his home. This is outrageous, and a complete abuse of power. They would have never done this to a male/female married couple. How reprehensible that this happened. I am so sorry for Clay and Harold.

[Tx4obama]

106. They were renters the article said, see last sentence of article.

Excerpt:
The county workers then terminated Clay and Harold's lease and surrendered the home they had shared for many years to the landlord.

[npk]

134. Didn't see that part

Thanks for the info. That is just pathetic. There is so little compassion left in this world. It really is sickening.

[LynneSin]

103. Wait, did I just wake up in 1950?

I can't believe they still allow this to happen - I see where Clay is planning on suing. Someone is going to regret the stupidity of what they have done!

[Hekate]

105. God damn it to hell

[cleverusername]

107. Hope suit is successful

Tip of the hat to the attorneys working on Clay's behalf. Nothing can compensate Clay for the time lost with his partner, but I hope that gets enough money to be comfortable for his remaining years.

[gristy]

108. I'm wondering why your OP headline says the county sold their home

The county didn't sell their home. In fact, Clay and Harold didn't even own the home.

[skids]

123. When you rent your possessions are your home...

The house that a home is in is in most cases only a mere support structure for a
painstakingly arranged atmosphere of decor and a nano-economy of utilitarian objects
supporting deeply ingrained daily routines.

Now, many renters stay in the same place for decades. However, when you have
rented/moved all your life, these possessions are even more well engineered,
since you have taken them apart and put them back together many times to fit
new room layouts. They become a part of you as surely as people become attached
to their childhood houses.

And that is what they sold. If someone came into a house-owners house and removed
everything but the doors, walls, and the plumbing fixtures, believe me, they
would feel like their "home" had been stolen.

Canceling the lease was just rubbing salt in the wound at that point.

[gristy]

126. Well, I understand your points here, but most will read "home" as "house"

In fact, dictionary.com does not include even one definition that encompasses your description:

home
1. a house, apartment, or other shelter that is the usual residence of a person, family, or household.
2. the place in which one's domestic affections are centered.
3. an institution for the homeless, sick, etc.: a nursing home.
4. the dwelling place or retreat of an animal.
5. the place or region where something is native or most common.
6. any place of residence or refuge: a heavenly home.
7. a person's native place or own country.
8. (in games) the destination or goal.
9. a principal base of operations or activities: The new stadium will be the home of the local football team.
10. Baseball. home plate.
11. Lacrosse. one of three attack positions nearest the opposing goal.

[skids]

132. I'd say 2 fits perfectly.

Look up "place."

Your point is taken, but I don't think it matters (at all, actually.)

[gristy]

133. You're right. It doesn't matter.

But I did look up "place" and there is no definition that encompasses ones possessions there either.

[skids]

139. physical environment/physical surroundings...

...(in the first definition)... What are they physically made of, if not your possessions?

[Cass]

110. This makes me angry as all hell that anyone would treat two human beings like this.

I hope Clay is successful in his lawsuit but it won't bring back what he lost with Harold those last few months.

I hope the asswipes who particpated in this cruelty get it back in spades.

What the hell is wrong with people who would do this to two people who were harming no one and just wanted the opportunity to be together in their last years together??

[shanti2]

111. This happens a lot of times to people.

As an RN I have seen this happen over and over. Usually it is
the families who walk in and take everything and throw the
other partner out.  My partner Marcia died and her parents
whom she hadn't seen or talked to in at least 10 years walked
in and were planning on taking everything in the house. Marcia
hadn't gotten around to set up legal paperwork for us and they
used this. I was so fortunate that they decided to not take
anything out of the house except some stupid stuff like
unused stacks of paper etc. They did take the house and ended
up selling it back to Fred who had sold it to Marcia. I was
then able to remain there for minimal rent for another 10
years.  It was so hard...her Dad, who had molested her as a
child, even called a friend who was the beneficiary of a huge
life insurance policy that Marcia had and wanted her to pay
for the funeral. Of course when she called me and other
friends we all agreed that her parents could shell out the
money.  I went to get rings off Marcia before the funeral and
her MOM had taken them. The rings matched mine and one was of
a naked woman. Her Mom continued to wear them and refused to
let me have them when I called her lawyer.

[harry_pothead]

114. Fuck, that's awful.

[harry_pothead]

112. This is what the Yes-on-8 people voted for.

They all bear responsibility for this tragedy.

[bertman]

115. This is so disgusting and heartbreaking that it makes my heart ache. Some humans

are not worth the bullet it would take to end their sorry lives. I count every person who knowingly participated in this atrocity in that group.

Recommended for exposing what our Democratic leadership is allowing to continue. This is a violation of basic human rights. Where do we get the idea we can rail against the Chinese or Russians for their human rights violations.

[alp227]

117. Way to go California!

Thanks to Proposition 8, counties get to treat good men in a longtime relationship like Harold and Clay like pieces of trash. It's bad enough that California's legislature can't pass budgets on time and continuously cuts funding from schools. Now that the President has signed the executive order allowing gay visitation rights in hospitals the hospital should have its federal Medicare funding revoked.

[Generic Other]

118. Oh how appalling

heartless villains.

[BuddhaGirl]

119. tweeted and also sent to Rachel Maddow

this is an abomination!!

[LeftyMom]

170. I hope she takes it up.

I wouldn't be surprised if she did, she's from the east bay, so this went on not real far from where she's from and it might pique her interest the way a story in a more obviously bigoted location might not.

[Ken Burch]

120. What is the matter with Sonoma County?

How could they think it's ok to traumatize two elderly men just because of their love for each other?

This looks like a good reason to start a wine boycott.

[Auggie]

187. This is not the act of the county but that of a few deranged individuals

who probably have nothing to do with Sonoma wine

[laylah]

121. Any contact info?

Forgive me but I have not read the whole thread; however, if there IS contact info for these homophobic, reprehensible, hateful ASSHOLES, I would appreciate the info.

[SoapBox]

128. Scroll back up to my earlier post..subject is CONTACT...CONTACT...

Hey,

I gathered up some links for people to contact, so that more attention/clarification can be brought to this....

I think my post was labeled #74 (look at the far right column).

Shout back if you don't see it.

[BuddhaGirl]

129. contact info here

Newsroom:

Executive Editor:
Catherine Barnett
[e-mail]

Managing Editor:
Bob Swofford
[e-mail]

Senior Editors/News:
Chuck Buxton
[e-mail]

Newsroom phone number: [phone], between 8:30 a.m. and midnight (Pacific Time)

The online feedback form isn't working right now. I left a voicemail and emailed the Executive Editor.

[sudopod]

138. I agree.

Shit needs to get real. People need to lose their jobs.

[marew]

122. That is so hard to read.

How can people be so heartless? I just do not understand.

[rasputin1952]

127. This is an outrage!

I should think this is a case that the ACLU of another legal entity could look into and perhaps get a reversal.

To treat people like this is beyond the pale. The cruelty that is passed of as "legal" is certainly light years away from ethical or moral.

[BR_Parkway]

130. I hope every ignorant fucker in CA who voted to repeal marriage equality

sees this and knows that they are personally responsible for it happening. Jesus wept indeed.

I hope everyone here sends copies to all these hate groups as well - NOM, Focus on Everyone Else's Family, and the rest. This is their outcome, by their actions - and truthfully, most of them could probably care less - it's a moneymaker for them and that's the real motivation

[proteus_lives]

131. That's awful!

[DrZeeLit]

136. I can hardly type I'm crying so hard. This is horrible. Horrible.

Imagine the outrage if this happened to somebody's grandma and grandpa?
But because ... oh dammit... I'm so pissed and sad and upset.
You know what I mean.

Shit. Just Shit.

[Ken Burch]

137. The link doesn't seem to work.

n/t.

[Downtown Hound]

141. I live in Sonoma County

And I'm a member of One Struggle One Fight, an advocacy group for gay marriage and other civil rights. I'm going to bring this to their attention and see what we can do about it. I'll keep you all posted.

It's crazy though. Sonoma County was one of the few counties to overwhelmingly reject prop 8. It was soundly defeated here. Guess no place is safe, not even liberal strongholds.

[Bluebear]

144. Looking high & low for the "GLBT rights are a pet issue"/"poutrage" crowd.

[Shining Jack]

146. OMG,what a nightmare !

[Zhade]

149. This is why separate but equal would never work.

NT!

[Warren DeMontague]

151. Someone should see if Lynn Woolsey can help.

She's one of the most progressive members of the House IMHO.

[Alcibiades]

153. The best case for marriage equality I've seen

I used to work in a geriatric psych ward in a small town. The folks who had kids who were willing/able to look after their interests did just fine, as did the vast majority of depressed old ladies seeking inpatient treatment. Older men with neurological disorders or senility fared worst, mainly because our shitty doctor would put them on the amount of Thorazine you would give to a young healthy person. First they would become zombies, and then they would die.

Old people in general need more legal protection from this sort of thing, but this especially goes for gay people. I think even many opponents of gay marriage would be against this.

[pink-o]

156. OMG! This is just heartbreaking.

First of all, most of my family and friends live in Sonoma County and it's a fairly progressive place. And second, I saw this situation time after time during the worst of the AIDS crisis, it kills me that it's still happening almost 30 years later. I can recount a thousand anecdotes of separated gay and lesbian couples, while their "families" who disowned them for being gay suddenly showed up at the hospital bedside and took over. It's why same-sex marriage is essential, to stop heinous acts like this from happening!

And also in the anecdotal file, these same "families" who rejected their gay children had other children who abused their spouses, dealt drugs, committed felonies, et al, yet those kids were still in the family fold. What kind of fucked-up priorities are those, anyway? You accept hate and violence from your children, but reject love.

Idiots!!!

[Ken Burch]

157. Please pass it on if this leads to a "Boycott Sonoma County Wines" campaign

n/t.

[wygit]

160. OK, I'm getting confused...

It's a REALLY infuriating story, but...

I'm always mystified when I see
Results 1 - 10 of about 93,000 for Greene v. County of Sonoma
for something like this, and can't find anything pointing to any story on any news site, & all the references end up pointing back to one source.

I just don't like it when there's
1) a VERY infuriating story,
2) no dates on when any of this happened, no details, WHAT hospital? WHAT nursing home? WHAT judge? What was Harold's last name?
3) The story has things like "the county removed Clay from his home and confined him to a nursing home against his will" without saying HOW they did that... I mean what, just because they're EVIL?
4), like I said, every reference I can find to the story points back to one source.
My first reaction is to be ANGRY, OUTRAGED, but that little voice is saying "wait a minute... check the facts." and I can't FIND any.

All I can find is the Kate Kendell story.
Does ANYONE have any additional info on this story?

[queerart]

163. Links, But They Don't Offer Much More Information>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.nclrights.org/site/PageServer?pagename=issue...


http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2010/04/case-of-gay-senior...


http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/clay-greene-...








(edited to add another link)

[wygit]

166. right, and even those are still quoting the same original story

... it's the same Kate Kendell story.

Not that I have any dispute with the story, I'd just really like to see some corroboration from somewhere.

Did you see that what pushed the Hutaree militia over the edge was a web story that was fake?
(Not that they weren't way out there anyway)

http://www.freep.com/article/20100331/NEWS06/100331050/...

A member of the Hutaree militia charged with federal crimes was upset because she thought that President Barack Obama had signed into law this month a bill that would spend $20 billion to help the terrorist group Hamas settle in the U.S.

There was never any such legislation, but Tina Stone believed it was the truth, according to her Facebook account.

[EFerrari]

182. The agenda item on the Board of Supervisors' schedule in November

where the case is set to be discussed is not part of the Kendell story.

[wygit]

193. There's an update on the NCLR site ...

... with some more details, along with a pdf of the complaint. http://bit.ly/dwVEbl

Details are always good, and the NCLR campaign seems designed to be DEMANDING news media attention, which will, in my experience, do a lot more to change official behavior than the lawsuit..

Starting to see reports on windycity, salon, seattlepi.com
http://blog.seattlepi.com/stepforward/archives/202464.a...

Although kicking but in court would bring a lot of satisfaction too.

[Samantha]

164. Another type of depraved indifference

Not illegal perhaps, just beyond belief.

[Ken Burch]

167. Here's another link that seems to work:

http://www.bilerico.com/2010/04/sonoma_county_ca_separa...

[flvegan]

168. I want to know which heavy hammer attorney is going to take Clay's case pro bono.

Sounds like he needs a hero. Someone needs to be one.

[Number23]

171. Interesting to me that in a story this horrible, that there are those who overlook the

magnitude of these events in order to assign blame to our President. As though, somehow this is HIS fault.

The same President who this very week said that this type of thing is wrong, is horrible and unconscionable and has asked hospitals with the aid of HHS to STOP this type of insanity, and there are folks in this thread who are STILL BLAMING HIM. One person even suggested that Obama issued the order to stop this this week because he knew this story was about to break!! The level of hate and distrust towards this man is absolutely INSANE. Thank God it doesn't appear to be widespread beyond the haters on both sides who are determined to castigate this man for every action he takes, good or bad.

This happens far too often and I'm glad for every bit of exposure that it gets. I'm also glad that our President is doing something to stop it.

[blueredneck]

172. so sad commentary on the bigotry and racism of Americans...

This story makes me want to vomit. Not sure how these Sonoma County officials can sleep at night...

[Kali]

173. Does Clay have a place to live now?

He has a lawyer and they are going to court, but I don't see any info on how his immediate needs are being met???

He may never see the end of the legal shit - how is he doing NOW?

[donheld]

174. Damn them all to hell

[buckrogers1965]

175. Shameful.

I am just stunned that county officials have the authority to set aside a legal power of attorney that the two of them had. I am shocked that they were able to steal all their possessions and just auction them off. I am shocked that if they had to be in a nursing home, then why couldn't it be the same one? Even if they were not a couple, the fact that they had been room mates all those years alone should ensure they shared the same care facility. The fact that they are a couple makes it even worse.

[JackDragna]

176. How can this exist in a free nation?

What a gross injustice.

[glowing]

177. Disgusting.. This is why religion is supposed to stay out of govt completely.

Marriage to the state and feds is a legal binding contract that allows rights.. It has nothing to do with the religious ceremony... Shit, I got married at the court house. The words spoken to one another mean nothing to the state.. it the contracted piece of paper that binds us legally that is the importance to the state and to the federal govt.

Do you think Pres. Obama will apologize for this one as well. These two loving individuals have been together longer than Pres. Obama and his wife. And at the end of their life, they are treated like shit. Absolutely disgusting.

[wygit]

196. seeing as how...

President Obama was a senator from Ohio when this took place... I'm not sure I understand your question...

[Ken Burch]

203. Illinois, not Ohio.

(unless he was moonlighting and nobody noticed. Coulda happened, times are hard and everybody has trouble making ends meet...)

[dencol]

178. There are VERY few stories that make me physically ill anymore.

But this is one of them. Somebody mentioned a gay person lighting their place on fire and ending their life rather than being evicted - that was a measured response.

[OneBlueSky]

183. I only pray that these gentlemen live long enough to . . .

see the results of the massive lawsuit that will bring them some semblance of justice . . . this is just so sickening . . . the perpetrators must be brought to justice, the victims must be compensated for their losses, and huge punitive damages must be assessed for the mental anguish that was inflicted upon them . . . anything less will only compound the massive injustice that has already occurred . . .

just disgraceful . . .

[EFerrari]

184. Harold passed away already. Iirc, three months after his fall. n/t

[beac]

186. How CAN people be so cruel?

Weeping for Harold & Clay.

[pecwae]

189. Heartrending.

My aunt was with her partner for over 52 years before her death last year in Texas.

Sonoma County should be excoriated for such heinous acts!

I'm sorry that I'm too late to rec this.

[muffin1]

192. Unfucking believable.

MARRIAGE EQUALITY NOW!!!

[Little Star]

198. Kick

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

205. more follow up reports

I don't know if I should post a new thread or just attach here:

Kate Kendall writes more about Harold and Clay on Bilerico. Includes the address for the Clay Greene Trust Fund

http://www.bilerico.com/2010/04/defending_the_indefensi...

There's an article in the BAR written by Sonoma County resident Lois Pearlman

http://ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=4748

[EFerrari]

207. Thanks.

[sohndrsmith]

206. my dad was gay and died at age 69. I have no words and falling tears. n/t