Kamakazi pilot Joe Stack, who crashed plane into Austin building, hailed by anti-government groups

[onehandle]

Source: New York Daily News

THE FIRES in Austin were still burning yesterday when the Internet lit up with government haters cheering suicide pilot Joe Stack and calling him a hero. "Finally an American man took a stand against our tyrannical government that no longer follows the Constitution," wrote Emily Walters of Louisville, Ky.

"His sacrifice was for all of us," wrote Texan Tyler Britten. "Joe Stack, you are a true American Hero and we need more of you to make a stand," tweeted Greg Lenihan, an engineer in San Diego.

Stack's manifesto railed against Wall Street, the Catholic Church, the IRS and the failure to reform health care - a little something for everyone. The right called him a socialist, and the left branded him a right-wing tea partyer. The only pol Stack name-checked in his final rant was "recent presidential puppet" George W. Bush, though he called all politicians useless.

There are always members of a small lunatic fringe ready to embrace a domestic terrorist targeting the feds. Tim McVeigh, who blew up the Oklahoma City federal building in 1995, killing 168 people, many of them children, remains a hero in some disgruntled circles 10 years after his execution.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/02/19/201...

[dipsydoodle]

1. Whatever

it was a bit extreme.

[saigon68]

81. Nah he railed against Ratso-- it was well deserved

[mzmolly]

2. I'd love to send them to a government free island.

You know, paradise.

[DBoon]

7. How about Somalia?

try looking up "somalia" and "libertarian paradise" on google.

I think some of the responses are sincere, amazingly enough

[mzmolly]

21. Funny!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/somalia-libert...

[Renew Deal]

3. Those saying he's not a terrorist are doing us all a diservice.

[NoFace]

66. "it's because he's white"

[Craftsman]

4. People are getting mad and desparate

Two huge point. If a person thinks he has nothing to lose they can become real dangerous. And the last time I remember a people being told to "eat cake" they decided to bite their leaders in the rear. The French revolution was started by a middle class that was up against the wall money wise.

[Renew Deal]

5. So you're saying that he was justified.

OK

[Craftsman]

15. No he is not

But I am saying I expect to see more of it. I hope and pray not but I expect to see more actions running the gambit from civil disobedience to violence.

[jobycom]

14. Someone is always mad and desperate. The husband who murders his wife is mad and desparate.

Mad and desparate is a natural state. Murdering someone because you are mad and desparate is a selfish, cowardly act.

What's more, no one who knew this jackass knew he held these views, because the coward didn't really try to change the world over his views. He just tried to get out of paying taxes, and he came up with all the rest to justify his own childish greed. When it finally caught up with him, rather than take a brave stand in court or on the airwaves, he just crashed his plane into a building and wrote a goofy excuse for a suicide note, all to try to make him look heroic.

He wasn't heroic. He was a chickenshit coward who murdered someone because he was too ashamed to face his friends. He's like the woman who burned down her office building and killed three co-workers because she didn't want her boss to realize she hadn't done her paperwork. Pure selfish chickenshit coward, as is ANYONE trying to justify him in any way.

If you don't like the government, rally against it, but don't murder innocent people just doing their job in the process.

[christx30]

17. Sometimes, the IRS

pushes people too far. And sometimes, they push back.
You call them for help, they give you the wrong advise. A year later, they hit you with $10,000 in fines, penalties, interest, ect.
You will never in your life be able to pay that off. You took their advice and now anything you make will be confiscated. You are about to lose your home, and you may be facing jail time.
This kind of BS is very common, and people are going to handle the situation differently. Some people will be good little boys and girls and accept what is going on and live a life of IRS induced poverty, happy to feed the system that abuses them. Some people will hire a tax attorney, which may or may not be able work. Some people might kill themselves.
Stark made mistakes. But from what I've read, the IRS pushed him. He had nothing left to lose.
I don't condone what he did. But the IRS does ruin people's lives. They stack fine after fine and penalty after penalty on you until you are buried with no way out.
How would any of us handle that?

[madmom]

19. IF you have to do something that drastic, kill yourself. Don't take innocents with you!

[christx30]

23. He didn't see them as innocent...

it was the IRS that was causing the problems. So he attacked them.
He didn't go into a mall and mow people down. The body count would have been a heck of a lot higher if he had done that. He went to the source of his troubles.
Probably destroyed his plane and burned down his house to make sure that the IRS couldn't get it.

[Adsos Letter]

24. Was he also concerned that the IRS not get his wife and daughter?

since reports I have been reading say that they were also in the house when he lit it on fire.

[christx30]

58. I didn't say that he was

not a complete tool. Because he was. What he did to his wife and daughter was horrible. I'm glad they're safe.
I'm just saying that while I disagree with what he did, I can understand his anger. What we need to do is reform the tax code to make it less punitive. No more $10,000 mistakes. People should be careful when figuring out their tax returns. But the IRS should not punish honest mistakes, esp. when those mistakes are caused by calling the IRS for help. If the IRS gives you bad advice and you use that in your tax return, you are still responsible. And they will crush you.
I think if the IRS give you bad advice, they should allow you to correct it with no penalty. Major reform needs to happen.

[COLGATE4]

73. You're giving credit where no credit is due

I saw nothing in his "manifesto" that indicated that his problems with the IRS were the result of depending on the IRS' advice to him which later proved to be incorrect. Rather, it seems that he got mixed up with some of the anti-tax movements which are still active around the US and which are based on nothing but incorrect assertions about tax law by non-lawyers (i.e. I'm not a citizen of the US, etc. etc.). That apparently went south on him as it has done with almost all who take the advice of these groups. In addition, it appears that he had the engineer's delight in arguing his interpretation of IRS statutes with the IRS, since their interpretation didn't make sense to him (see his diatrine about tax law on Independent Contractors). In short, what I take away from this is a guy who thought he was more clever than the IRS and eventually got hoisted on his own petard. Sad, but quite unremarkable.

[yellowcanine]

60. From the reports, there was a passenger in the plane with him. Besides, did you read his manifesto?

It was basically a diatribe about all the things which went wrong in his miserable life. The IRS was a convenient scapegoat.

[RamboLiberal]

63. I've read no reports of a passenger in plane

You talking about the man in the building who worked for IRS that is missing and presumed to be 2nd body?

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs...

[yellowcanine]

68. Yeah I had it wrong. He still is an innocent though regardless of what Stack thought.

[madmom]

67. Well the 911 attackers didn't see all those people as innocent either.

[Tx4obama]

72. The BUILDING was not only the IRS there are other businesses in there,

so there were people in that building that were innocent.
Actually all the PEOPLE in that building were innocent people doing their jobs in order to get a paycheck.

p.s. The thing that bothers me is that that the guy was not 'poor' he OWNED his own private plane. Anyone that can afford to own a plane is not hurting.
So, here we have a fairly well off middle class person that was just INSANE!

[NoFace]

69. As someone else has mentioned, he should've sold his $100,000 airplane if he was desperate. nt

[Berry Cool]

54. Your logic is no different from that of Dr. Tiller's murderer.

After all, he saw all those innocent little babies being killed and he just couldn't take it anymore. I'm sure that was his attempt at defense for what he did.

[ljm2002]

78. Ridiculous!

If you read his manifesto, you can see that as soon as he began his working career, he also began actively avoiding taxes.

Now one can argue for and against taxes, and in particular, for and against the individual income tax. But everyone -- everyone! -- knows that you will have difficulties if you simply don't pay. That is how taxes work.

This is *not* some poor schmuck who got railroaded by the IRS. Rather, this is a person who could not deal with the fact that he was not winning his self-instigated war with the IRS.

In other words: this was a fight that Joe Stack picked. He just couldn't deal with the fact that he was losing the fight.

[Cirque du So-What]

6. One telling point

Only the anti-government groups have embraced Stack as a hero/martyr, everyone else having tried to claim that Stack was aligned ideologically with their enemies. Stack could just as well have been called 'anti-capitalistic,' but so far only the anti-government types have claimed kinship with the murderous bastard. It's well past time to start compiling data on these groups, as they've shown themselves to be sympathetic to his violent course of action.

[TerryJ2]

11. Not a terrorist

You can compile data on me, but you'll be disappointed to find that I'm not a member of any violent anti-government groups.
I can see exactly why Joseph Stack did what he did, and know exactly how he felt.
Do I condone it? No.
Does it raise attention about crude, coercive IRS laws and collection agents? You bet. That's something we can all identify with.
What he did was wrong.
Why he did it is understandable.
And yes, sympathetic ... by not toward violence. I feel for the two people who were killed, and the other two who were injured, not to mention those on the street who were traumatized into wondering if it was another 9/11.
Just because his actions were over the top doesn't mean his core beliefs were wrong.

[Gormy Cuss]

13. Welcome to DU

Plowing a plane into an office building only brings attention to the pilot and his twisted, selfish view of the world.

BTW, his core belief on taxation was wrong.

[nolabear]

16. I'd caution you against thinking you understand his core beliefs.

There is a profound difference between hating an institution and either trying to work for change or leaving it and finding a place where you feel less disenfranchised, and setting your own house on fire, deeply traumatizing your family, killing innocent people and going out in a rageful "blaze of glory" rather than trying to find solutions to the problem. There was something profoundly broken in this man. I feel deep sorrow for everyone involved, but can't imagine I know what drove him.

[Renew Deal]

20. You're not a terrorist. You're a terrorist sympathizer.

Remember what Bush said. You're either with us or with the terrorists.

[RaleighNCDUer]

55. Sure about that?

Who were the 'tax experts' who he mentioned in his note who put him on the wrong side of the IRS back in the 80s, starting the whole thing off?
He tried to cheat on his taxes and got levied a HUGE fine because of it. Then, apparently (inferred from what he wrote) he did it AGAIN. Is it any surprise the IRS red flagged him so when he didn't file taxes because of having no income recently they investigated him again?

From the way it reads he was an anti-tax nutcase, like the Montana Freemen, and it all started at the same time that they started in the early 80s.

He is right there with the Freemen and the libertarian right's anti-tax crowd. And, typical of the right, he blames THEM for what HE did.

[Violet_Crumble]

76. He was a terrorist...

Terrorism is the use of violence for political means, and there's no exemption clause in the definition that says it's not terrorism if someone knows exactly how the terrorist feels. How ridiculous. If you know exactly how that lunatic felt, you really need to seek professional help as soon as possible...

The guy was a tax evader who got caught. There was nothing honest or noble in what he did. There's nothing understandable in him flying his plane (which he could have sold to pay his taxes) into an office full of innocent people. And I don't give a shit how evil the IRS can be made out to be by people like you. The IRS is people just like you and me who get up and go to work each day and have families and friends who love them, and who don't deserve to have some madman in a light plane fly into their office. My sympahty is entirely with the IRS staff in Austin, and especially with the family and friends of any the terrorist murdered. I've got no sympathy for the murderer, and very little for those who think it's totally understandable for someone like him to go over the edge because he got caught trying to dodge his tax obligations...

on edit: rewrote one sentence that I thought may have come across as me calling you evil, which I wasn't...

[PassingFair]

8. An engineer who worked on government contracts who didn't see the point in paying taxes.

Asshole.

[grytpype]

9. They sure do love domestic terrorism.

[CLANG]

10. Brown=Terrorist White=Freedom Fighter

[WriteDown]

12. He's the ultimate centrist!

Geez.

[tom_paine]

18. That's pretty funny and somewhat true. lol

[Adsos Letter]

22. "Propoganda of the deed"

Seems like there is a bit of that in his "Manifesto." And it seems like the anti-government types are responding positively to it.

[RamboLiberal]

25. Joe Stack is a "True American Hero": Facebook Groups Support Domestic Terrorist

Source: CBS News

AUSTIN, Texas (CBS/AP) Some would call Joseph Andrew Stack, the software engineer who crashed his small plane into an IRS office building in Austin, a domestic terrorist. But there are fans on Facebook and Twitter who are now claiming he's a "true American hero."

-----

In the note, signed "Joe Stack (1956-2010)" and dated Thursday, he said he slowly came to the conclusion that "violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer."

And some people on Facebook couldn't agree more.

"Finally an American man took a stand against our tyrannical government that no longer follows the Constitution," wrote Emily Walters of Louisville, Ky.

-----

People were also sounding off via Twitter.

"Joe Stack, you are a true American Hero and we need more of you to make a stand," tweeted Greg Lenihan of San Diego, according to the paper.


Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/02/19/crimesider/entr...

---

NY Daily News:
"Finally an American man took a stand against our tyrannical government that no longer follows the Constitution," wrote Emily Walters of Louisville, Ky.

Walters was one of at least two dozen people who founded Facebook fan groups to hail the homicidal pilot.

Most had only a tiny handful of members, but hers attracted more than 200 before Facebook removed it.

-----


On the other end of the crazy scale, Internet conspiracy theorists - including Austin radio host Alex Jones - were quick yesterday to declare that the plane crash was staged by the government "to demonize the tea party movement."

One founder of a Stack fan club on Facebook, Rick Wagner, is a pilot in Minnesota. His "about me" quote, which one hopes is a joke, reads:

"When I go I want to be able to look back and tell all the passengers to quit screaming."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/02/19/201...

I don't think you can label Stack a Tea-Bagger but I suspect those supporting him come more from that side of the lunatic fringe.

[eleny]

26. Anarchists

[AlbertCat]

42. Libertarian nutcases.

He had problems with the IRS for years! They hounded him! How unfair!

Wait.... he didn't pay his taxes?

He broke the law by not paying his taxes, so the IRS tries to get him to pay what he owes and that means taxes are unfair and he should fly a plane into a federal building.


This fantasy of not paying taxes has got to end. It's positively "fundamentalist" in it's absurdity. And the taxes we Americans pay is nothing compared to other countries...and even what Americans paid in the past!

[Qutzupalotl]

53. +1

I have nothing to add. You said it all.

[Adsos Letter]

46. "propoganda of the deed"

seems to fit with this guy's approach.

[TheCowsCameHome]

27. I suppose this is good news for the small aircraft industry,

"Joe Stack, you are a true American Hero and we need more of you to make a stand," tweeted Greg Lenihan of San Diego, according to the paper.

Think of all the planes they'll need to build.

[Jefferson23]

30. LOL n/t

[nimvg]

33. Ya Know...

...I initially heard he stole a Cirrus and then I find out he owned it. Those are not cheap. It's not like he had a ten year old 172 or something. That was at least a quarter million dollar aircraft or more depending on which model and how fancy the avionics were. Cirruses are a rich man's airplane to begin with, just as Bonanzas were years ago.

They're also not easy to fly. Cirrus has a special certification program for instructing in the SR22 because they have a very narrow flight envelope. Deviate from that envelope and you're likely to have a very bad day. That's what the ballistic parachute is for.

[moonbatmax]

75. I was thinking myself...

...when I read further up that he'd crashed his plane into the building:

If he could have just sold the plane, even at a loss,
what kind of dent might that have put in his tax burden?
Christ, I should have his problems.

What a prick!

[nimvg]

82. If It Ever So Happens...

...that I get into a position where I can own an aircraft instead of renting, I don't think the Cirrus would be my choice.

As I said, they have a very narrow flight envelope and for someone who doesn't plan on flying more than once or twice per month even after he's licensed, that's a problem. It's hard to get into trouble in a 172 but they also don't go very fast and don't have much of a payload. Going up to the 182, it's basically a "stuff and go" type of aircraft other than the special procedure required for landing. CG is higher and there's two hundred more pounds out front, so you really need to land with some kind of power. My CFI and I got into a spirited discussion about that several weeks ago and he can believe what he wants but a former instructor told me flat out, DON'T land the 182 too fast and/or without power unless you want to bend up a firewall.

[Tesha]

28. We all knew it was coming.

Clinton had Timothy McVeigh.

Obama has Joe Stack and will doubtless have more.

The Reich-Wingers will never yield power willingly and
will gladly use violence against us to hold or regain power.

Tesha

[Billy Burnett]

29. It is as American as apple pie.

That is how it came to pass that we occupy this land.

[rfranklin]

32. But these are people who never had power...

They are living in a fantasy world of nostalgia for a time that never was, envisioning themselves as heroes that they never were.

[Doctor_J]

31. According to the WH and many DUers, we're not allowed to call this terrorism

something about Stack not belonging to an organized group.

Any of the people who applaud Stack are a clear and present danger to the country.

[Tesha]

34. "no organized group" -- You mean he *WAS* a Democrat?!? (NT)

[Jackpine Radical]

37. Well, dying in small planes IS a Democratic tradition.

At least since Will Rogers.

[Tesha]

64. (Well spotted -- full marks!) (NT)

[Dollface]

35. Sounds like the schools need to do a better job of teaching the Constitution

[RamboLiberal]

36. Radical Anti-tax Groups Growing Threat, Say Law Enforcement

Joseph Stack, the 53-year-old software engineer who crashed his small plane into a seven-story office building in Austin, Texas, was part of a growing, violent anti-tax and anti-government movement that has become increasingly alarming to law enforcement agencies.

-----

Experts are pointing to the incident as further evidence of what they say is a proliferation of anti-government militia groups.

"There is a real rage out there, and this terrible attack may be a reflection of that," Mark Potok, the director of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project, said in a statement to FOXNews.com. The SPLC has been studying the resurgence in anti-government militias and groups, which it attributes to a perfect storm of economic, political and social factors.

"There's been an explosive growth of anti-government militias and so-called Patriot groups over the past year, and the central idea of many of them is that taxes are completely illegitimate," Potok said.

There was an immediate response to Stack's violent act on anti-government and anti-tax blogs, and on Facebook, where multiple fan pages attracted hundreds of followers within hours of the plane crash.

"Half of them are making this guy into a hero, that's scary stuff. The other half is saying that this guy's a victim," said J.J. MacNab, a Maryland-based insurance analyst who has testified before Congress on the anti-tax movement and is writing a book on the subject.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586904,00.html

Fox News who help stoke this rage reporting on this!

[justgamma]

38. Man, they must hate the fact that Obama gave them

the largest tax cut ever. The pilot also railed against the insurance companies and big business. Maybe we should start yelling about that.

[66 dmhlt]

39. Stack's Manifesto matches the Teabaggers' ...

Declaration of Purpose ... well, to a "Tea".

[NoKoolAideForMeThx]

40. OMG

It wasn't enough to just show up at the Townhall meetings with guns.

The Teabaggers now have their own Airforce....

These people frighten me beyond words.

[SnakeEyes]

43. Except for the anti-capitalist part

This guy was all over the map. At most one could maybe define him as populist.

[yellowcanine]

41. Holy crap! A PILOT is a founder of a Stack fan club????

One founder of a Stack fan club on Facebook, Rick Wagner, is a pilot in Minnesota. His "about me" quote, which one hopes is a joke, reads:

"When I go I want to be able to look back and tell all the passengers to quit screaming."



This guy has to be a scammer. No way does a real pilot get away with putting a statement like that on Facebook. If he is a real pilot I hope he is grounded immediately and his license yanked permanently.

[AlbertCat]

45. This guy has to be a scammer.

He might think he's a real pilot. Like this loser thought he was a real patriot. And the losers who think they support some kind of hero in him.

This is what happens when you "make your own reality" and then the real reality encroaches. Like the reality that Iraq was unnecessary and the Bushies & the GOP ideas were so very awful they were beaten in a landslide by a black man. That encroaching reality has GOP fantasy worlds crumbling all over the place. Some , like Teabaggers, simply cannot handle it. "I want my country back!" To begin with, it's not "your" country and "you" never "had" it. More delusional violence to come...

[Jennicut]

44. Poor Alex Jones...a man angry at the govt. MUST be working for the govt. Against tea partiers.

I would laugh if it were not so pathetic and sad.

[AlbertCat]

48. Against tea partiers.

Yeah.... the tea Party Movement needs something like this to make it look stupid, nutty and bad!

[Jennicut]

51. They have suceeded already themselves.

[NoFace]

70. Exactly, I saw that too. Alex Jones claiming it's all a 'false flag' black op against t-baggers.Pftt

[CHelms]

47. Stack

It's not a good idea to be treating people who make suicide attacks on government building as heroes. If his name had been Mohammad-al something or other and the rest of the story was exactly the same, I bet the reaction from the people who are currently honoring Stack would have been completely different.

[coti]

49. ....

Despair.

[Beetwasher]

50. The Tea Baggers Have Their Hero!

And they can keep him!

[Blue_Tires]

56. translation: "Better him than us!!"

"He goes out in a futile, selfish pathetic ball of fire, and WE spin it to our teabag benefit from the comfort of our own basement!"

[skyounkin]

52. Terrorist.

Period.

[The Northerner]

57. LOL, and they support his anti-capitalist rage?

Who knew that a pro-Marxist could be their hero.

[yellowcanine]

59. Do they know he also murdered someone else in the plane with him?

[RamboLiberal]

62. It was someone who worked in the building - not in the plane

Family and friends were gathering at the Cedar Park home of Vernon Hunter, 67, this morning after reports that Hunter was missing after Thursday’s tragic plane crash in Northwest Austin.

A woman who answered the door at Hunter’s residence Friday morning said she was not authorized to speak on behalf of the family.

Thursday night, a woman who answered the phone at Hunter’s home said he was missing following the crash.

Hunter is described as a devout Christian, a Vietnam veteran and father of six grown children who loved his white cowboy hat.

He apparently worked in the collections division for the Internal Revenue Service.

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs...

[yellowcanine]

65. Oops. The news clip I saw on that was not clear. It is still murder, though.

Just because someone works for the IRS doesn't make them deserving of being attacked.

[benld74]

61. I guess we need to watchy Emily and Gregg now too?

[Ecumenist]

71. These types awfully similar to the Taliban who cheered the 911

Pot meet Kettle.

[rumpel]

74. Kamakazi = Kamikaze?

How embarrassing, NY Daily News...

[sakabatou]

79. I know, they can't spell their romanji right.

[samsingh]

77. Very disgusting

[RamboLiberal]

80. ABC News - Joe Stack Hailed as Hero in American 'Patriot' Resurgence

-----

Stack's suicide note, an angry rant against the IRS and the government which was posted online the morning of his death, got around 20 million hits before it was taken down at the request of the FBI, according to Alex Melen, president and founder of T35, the network service provider for the Web site where the note was posted.

Melen, 25, said within minutes of taking the note down, the company was "bombarded" with around 3,000 e-mails demanding Stack's words be reposted. Some of the e-mails contained personal threats against Melen.

"What's funny is most people were pretty much praising him," Melen told ABC News.

-----

"He sacrificed his life to inspire the quest for TRUTH," one Facebook poster said. "He deserves a memorial. A one man uprising... God Bless him."

"This was quite heroic," said a member of Stormfront.org, a white supremacist Web site. "There is a gradual awakening underway."

"This is just the beginning, prepare for battle!" another said.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/patriot-movement-calling-j...

[Ian David]

83. If Bin Laden were protesting taxes on 9/11, Fox News would have declared him a hero. n/t