Greek customs officials begin 3-day strike

[Joanne98]

Source: AP


ATHENS, Greece — Greek customs officials and finance ministry employees walked off the job Tuesday to protest government austerity measures designed to pull the country out of a debt crisis that has shaken the entire euro zone.

The three-day customs strike will affect imports and exports, with a skeleton staff processing only certain items such as perishable goods and pharmaceuticals, and could affect the supply of fuel.

Finance Ministry employees — including those at Greece's much-maligned statistics service, which was accused by the EU of helping cause the crisis by faking the country's economic statistics — walked off the job for four days.

The strikes came as European finance ministers in Brussels warned Athens that it would have to prepare even tougher budget cuts if its current austerity program can't reduce its massive deficit from 12.7 percent of economic output to 8.7 percent this year. Athens has until March 16 to report back to the EU on its progress.



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iXUJvBknZVGqsBenIusBgBvWj5WQD9DTFAA00

[HeresyLives]

1. Greece is going to get booted out of the EU

in short order if they can't or won't straighten this out. And strikes are just making things worse.

[DJ13]

2. So austerity programs that hurt the poor is okay if it saves taxing the rich?

[HeresyLives]

3. The austerity programs hits everyone.

And the rich have already left.

[DJ13]

4. So just bend over poor people?

That is what you're saying, isnt it?

[HeresyLives]

5. How will going bankrupt and being tossed out of the EU

help anybody, much less the 'poor' you insist exist there?

[DJ13]

6. the 'poor' you insist exist there?

Now you wont even admit that Greece has any poor people that the reductions in government services will impact?

Look, its simple.

You cannot adequately fund a government (any government, not just Greece) by reducing taxes on the upper classes thinking the middle/lower classes can make up the difference.

Reagan, Thatcher, and the rest of the industrialized world systematically reduced government resources the last 30 years by under taxing the top income brackets.

Now that the shit is hitting the fan their first instinct is to reduce services that are the very safety nets of society instead of restoring the tax rates that worked for 50 years before the late 80's.

Its fucking madness.

[HeresyLives]

7. If you're 'poor' in Greece, you're not trying.

Govt benefits are easily available and extravagant.

Look, it's simple.

You can't spend more than you make on a regular basis without running into trouble.

Many countries have progressive income tax and it doesn't make any difference.

Try punitive income taxes, and they can move their money out of the country in seconds.

Edit for sp.

[JackRiddler]

15. Have you ever been to Greece?

Do you know any Greeks? What Greek media do you watch or read? What books have you read about Greece?

[JackRiddler]

20. Well come on, tell us what makes you knowledgable about poverty in Greece.

I'm Greek-American, speak the language, studied the politics, and go there on a near-annual basis.

So tell us how you know about the economic situation or the standards of living in Greece. What's your source or expertise?

Because from here, I shall confess, it sounds like you read it in the Wall Street Journal or something else of that ilk, or got it from a second-hand treatment of same. Worse, maybe the publication of some free market think-tank.

Please do correct me and let us know how you learned about the lazy life of the Greeks.

[WriteDown]

24. You're going there annually?

Sounds like you're doing pretty well. What is your specific problem with the poster's comments?

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WriteDown]

32. Pretty simple question...

Let us know what it's like on your fact-finding missions.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

38. So, when a DUer posts about a country they haven't visited or speak the language

of said country. You have to talk shit about it. Then some other Duer posts about a country that apparently they visit a lot. You also have to talk shit about it. Fascinating.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

39. My ex just moved back after our breakup and she would agree with your assessment.

I'll also note that she follows current events as much as most of us do on this board.

[JackRiddler]

14. The rich left about 80 years ago.

The Greek rich don't pay taxes there, never really have. That's a part of the problem.

[ShockediSay]

17. Trouble is the rich don't pay taxes

Remind you of anyplace?

[Fool Count]

9. No they are not, there is no mechanism for that at all.

They can only leave EU on their own volition.

[HeresyLives]

11. Yeah there is

[JackRiddler]

12. Greece is only showing the other European nations what's coming to their streets.

You're going to see this in many other countries. People there are not going to lie down as everything is taken away from them.

The EU isn't going to expel anyone, as that would initiate a fragmentation.

Greece may (should but probably won't) leave the euro, but they won't leave the EU and they won't be kicked out.

Your love of centralized authoritarianism is noted. Lucky for Brussels they're not so stupid as to follow your advice.

[JCMach1]

16. So it is okay for right and center right governments to bail out banks and businesses to the tune

of some 25billion and then turn around under the 'artifice' of a debt crisis to call on sacrifice to the public budget in the neighborhood of 28-30billion. Essentially leaving the socialists to play bad cop.

Something really smells in Greece and it's not the feta.

[Odin2005]

8. This won't end well.

[slackmaster]

10. I don't know much about Greek customs

Do they take off their sneakers before they step into a house?

[JackRiddler]

13. Very few of them wear sneakers.

[slackmaster]

18. That's a relief

When I was a kid, my dad always told me to beware of Greeks wearing sneakers.

[JackRiddler]

21. Okay, which other ethnicities would you do this with?

I don't mind, we have a sense of humor.

[WriteDown]

23. Greek is an ethnicity? Maybe/maybe not

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/greekmyth.html

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WriteDown]

30. Ah, you're the one touting racial purity and I'm the racist?

:rofl:

You remind me of my tribe which denies the migration of Asians over the land bridge and says we're pure and popped up spontaneously.

The poster you were responding to was making fun of a play on words and not a race, but the racial lens you see through did not allow you to see that.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WriteDown]

36. Please prove that Greek is a race.

I just laugh at those that fly off the handle for such non-infractions.

[JackRiddler]

40. Anyone reading this should know I didn't say Greek is a race!

That's WriteDown engaging in further provocation and I'm not responding to him but merely making that clear.

[WriteDown]

42. Must be why the majority of your posts were deleted.

:)

[happyslug]

44. When the post-Civil War Amendments to the US Constitution was adopted Nationality equal Race.

People tend to forget the words do change meanings over time. Race is one of them. Prior to about 1900 it was common to use the term race to mean someone NOT of your nationality or a related nationality (i.e. English and Germans are one "Race" the "Germanic Race" under this definition, but the Scots and Irish are a different "race" i.e Celtic).

Related to this concept was the older (and often used together with the above) Concept to use biblical terms for various "Races". These always started with the Story of Noah's sons. According to Genesis, Noah had three sons:

* Ham, forefather of the southern peoples (Hamitic Africa)
* Shem, forefather of the middle peoples (Semitic)
* Japheth, forefather of the northern peoples (Japhetic Eurasia) (by 1900 called Aryans, but given the Nazi abuse of that term now called "Indo-Europeans".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Noah

By 1800s there were questions as to using these names and by 1900 while still being followed had been drastically revised to reflect world wide populations NOT just the Middle East (and the reference to Noah had been long dropped and by mid 1900s all the terms except for Semitic had been dropped and other
Racial subgroups adopted, but the concept that there are more then three races survive to this day under this study of language/Ethic groups).

The term "Semitic race" is still used as a "Racial" name. This method permitted a good many more "Races" then mere Nationality. Aryan became Indo-European do to the abuse of the term Aryan by the Nazis, but even this was considered to broad so narrower terms were adopted. This can be seen above in the adoption of the term "Germanic Race" English, Germans, Norwegians, Danes and Swedes (And a few other related groups), the Slavs of Eastern Europe, the "Latin" people of Italy, Spain and Southern France (France is often considered both a Latin and a Germanic Country, these "Races" are NOT strict definitions but more guidelines as to language and Culture then anything else). The Chinese and Japanese, under this concept, were considered different "Races".

As to the Greeks, the Greeks are unique, like the Basques of Northern Spain, there are NO other closely related language or ethnic group (In most of these definitions of Race, Language is more determinative then genes for genes could NOT be traced, until quite recently, but Languages could be for the last couple of thousand years).

Just a comment on what is "Race" and that the term has NOT been restricted to the three main races for most of history. Even in US History, where we did have all three Races interacting (Native Americans for the Oriental, the White Settlers for the Caucasian Race, and the Black Slaves for the Negro race) at times we have seen more races then these three (The Chinese and Mexicans in the American West, the Algonquins and Iroquois language groups as separate races during Colonial times).

Just a Comment that the term "Race" have mean something other then the three main races. The US Supreme Court has long adopted that fact holding those Amendments forbade discrimination against Italians, Slavs and Mexicans (all in the 1800s) in addition to blacks. When the Civil War Amendments were passed the word Race had not yet been restricted to the three main races and the Courts have understood those Amendments to include under the concept of Race the Concept we now call "National Origin". Thus Greece under that sense of the world Race is a Race. Greek is NOT a race as most Americans would use that term today, but it was of Common Usage in the 1860s when the Civil War Amendments were passed and thus under the law still a "Race" under those Amendments.

[slackmaster]

33. Do _what_ with?

I'm almost 100% German BTW, so fire at will.

My brother and his family lived in Japan for a couple of years. One time someone broke into their rented house and stole my sister-in-law's jewelry and some cash.

The local cops came to investigate, but stayed only five minutes. The head cop pointed to footprints on the floor and said "The burglar was not Japanese. A Japanese burglar would have removed his shoes before entering the house."

They refused to investigate, and left.

[JackRiddler]

35. With you I'm just kidding around.

Let's be friends.

[WriteDown]

37. Germans? Japanese?

You are like the Axis powers. :)

[bikebloke]

19. Inherited mess

Greeks don't blame the current government. Pasok (the party now in power for about a year, I think) inherited the neoliberal mess from NeoDemokracia (or as some Greeks told me, the fascist party).

Tax evasion in Greece is a big tradition. You'll see lots of building with an odd bit of rebar sticking out. As along as a building is unfinished, it can't be taxed. So everyone leaves the protruding rebar as proof the building isn't finished. Ergo. No taxes.

[JackRiddler]

22. Speaking of taxes, you can also go to London or Monaco to see where the rich Greeks don't pay theirs

[WriteDown]

26. They don't pay taxes in London? nt

[JackRiddler]

27. The Greek rich don't pay taxes in Greece, is the point.

Generally not in London either.

You're so clever.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WriteDown]

25. Everyone likes the services provided by taxes....

but no one wants to pay. Sad.

[happyslug]

43. The University of Pittsburgh Cathedral of Learning has a similar tradition.

The University of Pittsburgh when the Cathedral of Learning (It is NOT a religious structure, just took the name Cathedral do to its size and height) is finally finished Pitt must start to pay back certain bonds related to its construction. This has been the case since the Cathedral was started in the 1920s and will NEVER be finished so the bonds will NEVER have to be paid back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Learning

[happyslug]

41. What a way to start Lent, give up on the EU

Orthodox Lent started on Monday, for the Western Church (Both Protestants and Catholics) it starts Wednesday. The difference is that the Orthodox do NOT count Good Friday or Holy Saturday as days of lent, those are independent days of fast. The Western Church include those two days in its count of 40 days (Sundays are NOT counted as Lenten days, and the Lenten Rules do not apply on those days, so Lent is always six weeks and four days, 6x6=36 plus four more days and you get to 40).

Back to the Greeks. This strike is the result of the deterioration of the Greek Economy over the last week, thus Lent is just a minor additional factor, but a factor. It provides the strike membership an additional place to meet.