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NewLIfeArea Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 08:47 PM
Original message
Investigators: Northwest Bomb Plot Planned by al Qaeda in Yemen
Source: ABCNEWS

The plot to blow up an American passenger jet over Detroit was organized and launched by al Qaeda leaders in Yemen who apparently sewed bomb materials into the suspect's underwear before sending him on his mission, federal authorities tell ABC News.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northwest-bomb-plot-plann...



Who's Al Qaeda leader? OSAMA Bin Laden???
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Will somebody give you your pizza already?
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sewed into his underwear, eh? Which apparently burned, damaging
him and making some little noise.

Now this is the mighty terrorist organization that we have spent $3 TRILLION and thousands of American lives "fighting"? Really?

What a great investment by the military-industrial complex these terrorists have proven for them and their stockholders.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. We'd have been further ahead to buy a fire extinguisher.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Now that's a practical suggestion.
How long did it take them to put him out?
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #21
32. Not near long enough for my preference..
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
30. Here's a vid of 3 ounces of C-4 exploding - same amount as was brought on the plane
Remember that C-4 is not quite as strong as PETN, which the would-be bomber tried to detonate. C-4 is mostly RDX, which has ~ 1.3 x the explosive power of TNT. PETN has ~ 1.6 x the power of TNT.

The massive pressurization shock wave alone from the blast would have ripped the fuselage open like an exploding water balloon, and directly killed many passengers. You can figure out yourself what effect a ripped-open fuselage, and any damage to electrical or hydraulic circuits, would have on a jetliner descending into an airport. That, of course, assumes no molten aluminum penetrated a wing fuel tank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0j_nKYV73I&feature=rela...

Here is a vid of detonator cord (which has an explosive core made from PETN) being used to explode simulated doors. (The vid is mislabeled as a C-4 detonation. PETN is the only explosive used in det cord.) The total PETN weight here would be less than that attempted by the would-be bomber.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW9eLqRZpL4&feature=rela...

Official government security failed utterly in this case. What prevented a major massacre was incompetent execution by the bomber, and alert and instantaneous intervention by a passenger. I see nothing to laugh about here.
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
27. 80 grams of PETN, one of the most powerful high explosives known
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 12:45 AM by Psephos
It's the explosive core in detonator cord, the trigger in many land mines, and it's one of the two active ingredient in the plastic explosive SEMTEX.

Its R.E. number is 1.66 (dynamite is 1.00).

If this had detonated properly, it would have sliced a hole in the fuselage, depressurized the cabin, quite possibly have severed control cables or hydraulic lines, and if it threw fuselage shrapnel into a fuel tank, exploded the plane. The reason the plan called for the detonation during descent and approach was that airliners are considerably less stable at low speeds, and there would be far less room for recovery at low altitude. Even if the plane didn't explode, loss of control circuits and surfaces would likely cause a crash.

Less than 500 grams of Semtex was used to destroy the Pan-Am Boeing 747 over Lockerbie. Calculations show that only 100 grams were needed, but the bombers weren't sure where the portable music box in which it was hidden would be stowed, so they used a little extra.

You should read up.
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D-Lee Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. Thanks for adding the info and links in your two posts!
That was very helpful and added to understanding the actual threat.
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. I've read up, thanks. Also looked a bit at the circumstances of this
case:
Christmas Day
Comes on a day when the administration is being pilloried for giving up the ship on healthcare
Comes the day after a stupid controversy with pregnant soldiers tarnishes the "war image"
Kid's dad used to work for the US embassy
Nothing actually happened other than the kid getting burned
Today Joe Liarman is calling for another pre-emptive war, this against Yemen.

LIHOP or MIHOP. Your choice.
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. When in trouble, change the subject.
You were mocking this in your first post.

Suddenly, it's not a laughing matter to you, but instead, a war conspiracy.

Obama's worst nightmare is a successful airliner detonation. His very worst. If it's shown to be due to the same kind of epic security fail we just saw with this bomber, it will be the end of Democrats in the White House for decades, and a powerful diminution of Democrat power in Congress as well. Napolitano is lost at sea. She is shockingly unfit for her job, so more epic fails hardly seem out of the question.

Meanwhile, it's obvious to any informed observer that the US has no spare capacity, money, or political capital to engage in any new war.

I see little sense of proportionality and much conspiracy-think in your latest comments. I am content to accept that we have irreconcilable opinions.
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. There was never a danger of an explosion. All went as desired.
Epic fail, as you point out, would be weakening, but an attempt which seems NEAR successful means we need more of what we've been doing. Surely you know the Patriot Act was just extended without any public hoorah, buried as it was in the healthcare hoopla.

I agree that another war will be ruinous to me and you, but to those in charge, they're amazingly profitable, so let's put it to the test. Any real proposition can be tested. Here's my prediction: before June of this year, we will be involved in a war in Yemen, which means air strikes, boots on the ground and so on. I think you'll agree that there need not be a declaration of such, because the two wars we're fighting now have not ever been declared.

I doubt we have irreconcilable opinions, but any good hypothesis can be tested. I've proposed the hypothesis and the test. Is that satisfactory to you?

Nothing to do now but wait and see.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
43. You might not be so freaking cavalier if
some asshole had blown up an airplane.
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. No, but he didn't, did he?
I haven't seen any proof that any actual bomb material was used. The kid got burned; that's what happened.

But yes, let's jump on Liarman's bandwagon and begin bombing Yemen immediately! There's still a bit left of this country to sign over to the warmongers and the corporate sponsors.

I grew up with duck and cover, so I'm tired of the bullshit.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Nobody jumps on fucking lieberman's bandwagon around here.
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. He's all over the news today using this incident as a reason to
attack Yemen and right now.

I'm not jumping on. I assume you're not. But anyone wanting to take drastic measures because of this incident is jumping on Holy Joe's wagon.

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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. This isn't about Liebermouth, it's about security failure at agency level.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northwest-bomb-plot-plann...

Will the agency problems get fixed? No. They'll just add more close-the-barn-door-after-the-horse-escapes idiocy to the list of theatrical indignities the TSA geniuses oversee at the airport.

I guess because the bomber didn't FedEx you a sample you'll say there's no "proof" there were 80 grams of undetonated PETN on him.

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cory777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. can anyone hear the war drums beating?
Now we get to claim Yemen has WMD's. How nice of this stooge to be so talkative. What a Christmas present, he said everything we wanted him to.

Just a little sarcasm.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. welcome to DU--so far, I haven't believed a word of the official stories
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. Is the PNAC back?
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groundloop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
36. No I don't hear war drums beating
I see and hear an administration that is far far more competent than the previous ones, and is looking at how this happened to determine if anything can be done to improve our screening. I don't see the knee-jerk reactions like the previous administration, I see thought being put into decisions.
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cory777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #36
52. that's ok,
I also believe in Santa.
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DonkeyHoTay Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
39. So is this a preview of which country is the next one for us to free?
i.e. the next war theater?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
42. No, but then I'm not stuck in the bush cheney nightmare..
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HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ok...I just have to ask..was it boxers or briefs ...or thongs?
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
31. Is that as in
The thong is ended but the memory lingers on ? :shrug:
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. Again, I gotta say, why didn't he (and the tennis shoe flambe guy) go to the
restroom to set their devices off? Like the passengers in the main cabin wouldn't notice? Idiots.

I really thought this guy was so stupid, plus yammering like a jackal, that Al Q was going "WHO????". But maybe there is a connection. :shrug:
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. I can see the latest security measures now...
No underwear while flying. We'll all be going "commando" in the air!!
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Thanks to an alert Dutchman, a major Christmas tragedy may have been averted.
I really don't see a great deal of humor with some asshole blowing away his balls. He is a stupid, possibly legless SOB if he is still alive and Yes, he deserves the No 1 Darwin Award for the year.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Aw jeez, lighten up!! It would be very humorous if he was the only one injured..
...and he blew off his nuts. He'd deserve it and it would be poetic justice. I'm commenting on the further restrictive security measures while flying. I fly quite a lot in my business and I absolutely hate it!! It will only get worse. When the next terrorist attempts to smuggle explosives up his ass, it'll be obvious that that we'll all be bending over and being subjected to full body cavity searches!! That's the day I quit flying for good
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. You give him The Darwin Award but don't see the humor?
Okay, then.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. Oh bullshit.
Emmanuel Goldstein sighting in Yemen.
:puke:
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Yep! n/t
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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. Terror suspect Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab rigged underwear with explosives to bring down Flight 253
Source: NY Daily News

A Nigerian Banker's son charged with trying to blow up a plane over Detroit claims he trained with Al Qaeda leaders who had explosives sewn into his underwear, it was reported Saturday.

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab told investigators a radical imam he met over the Internet hooked him up with a terror boss in northern Yemen, ABC News said.

He says he trained with the Al Qaeda leader for a month while they planned the Christmas Day attack on Northwest Flight 253.

A Saudi bomb maker rigged up a six-inch packet of high explosives - known as PETN - and a syringe and sewed it into his underpants, the report said.





Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/26/200...



Okay, I don't like where this is going, security-wise...
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Boxers or briefs?
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. thank goodness I wasn't the only one with mind in the gutter. . . .
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drdtroit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
28. Depends! n/t
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I"M sorry-- I know this is a serious subject, but the headline made me laugh. my first thought was-
what if he leaked or something? or had a larry craig moment?

(note to self--MUST have caffeine so brain will function)
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Al Qaeda has single handedly started a movement where men will be felt up by
security guards the world over. And I thought al Qaeda were prudes!! LOL!
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. do you think the guys will mind (I mean, except for the al-qaeda types) if the tsa's doing the
Edited on Sat Dec-26-09 09:53 PM by niyad
feeling up are women?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. And once again the terrorists win.
Sorry, I do find it funny. Not a guy, that's why.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. AQ in Yemen?
Osama bin Laden?

Hardly. AQ affiliate's naming strategy is hardly original: AQ in _____ (pick country or territory). Sometimes the name's fuzzy. So I can't tell if this group has opted for AQ in Yemen or AQ in the Arabian Peninsula. That would include Sa'udi Arabia, but maybe they're closely affiliated. Hard to know. Even too what extent news accounts nail the truth.

In this event it's not the reporter stating a fact or his own claim; he's reporting hearsay.

But it wouldn't be surprising if there were some connection, albeit tenuous. Why?

1. Here's a NYT article from last January: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/world/middleeast/23ye...
"In the Internet statement, Al Qaeda in Yemen identified its new deputy leader as Abu Sayyaf al-Shihri, saying he returned from Guantnamo to his native Saudi Arabia and then traveled to Yemen more than 10 months ago."

2. More to the point are stories like this one, widely noted here:
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/12/24/95127.html

The US has been involved with Yemen for a few years. Since the Cole incident, really, but really a lot more in the last 5 years or so. That Yemen is a bit of a basket case, and that Yemen is just up the coast and across a narrow bit of water from Somalia probably doesn't help.
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. I wonder if the device would look like a penis in the x-ray like machine?
Or perhaps like a tampon? Would it even be caught by the watchful eye of the attendant, who would no doubt be accustomed to seeing foreign objects such as tampons?

What's next? Exploding strap-on dildoes?
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. "Sniffer" devices are the answer
I've seen them in a couple of airports. You walk in to a sealed chamber, a puff of air comes up, a machine scans it for banned substances, you walk out five seconds later. Surely it would have detected both shoe bombers and underwear jihadis.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. I thought we were fighting them in Iraq... uh... Afghanistan... uh... Pakistan.
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. That's Exactly What I Thought. I guess we are confused.
Don't these people (would-be terrorists) know they are supposed to stay where our troops are stationed? Guess they didn't get the memo.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. I guess who didn't know..assholes are anywhere.
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Guilded Lilly Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
29. Father of Detroit would-be bomber warned US
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_airliner_attack_intellige...

WASHINGTON U.S. government officials tell The Associated Press that the Nigerian man charged with trying to destroy a jetliner came to the attention of U.S. intelligence in November when his father went to the U.S. embassy in Abuja, Nigeria, to express his concerns about his son.

A congressional official said Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, a 23-year-old Nigerian, popped up in U.S. intelligence reports about four weeks ago as having a connection to both al-Qaida and Yemen.

Another government official said Abdulmutallab's father went to the embassy in Abuja with his concerns, but did not have any specific information that would put him on the "no-fly list" or on the list for additional security checks at the airport.

Neither was the information sufficient to revoke his visa to visit the United States. His visa had been granted June 2008 and was valid through June 2010. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because neither was authorized to speak to the media.
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groundloop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. "DID NOT HAVE ANY SPECEFIC INFORMATION"
"NEITHER WAS THE INFORMATION SUFFICIENT TO REVOKE HIS VISA"

I'm sure the right wing chatter sites are all over the fact that this dude's father "alerted" us. But can you imagine if people were denied the privelege of boarding an airliner every time someone gave some unspecefic infomration suggesting they might be a problem. Hell, I might even call in an anonymous tip in the kid that was mean to me in fifth grade. Everyone was all over Bush & company because of drastic knee jerk measures restricting our freedoms. For someone to be put on the no-fly list there has to be more specific efidence.

I agree that we need to always be looking for better ways to make air travel safe. For instance, it'd be great if we could afford bomb "sniffers" at all airports.

Also, this person boarded his flight in Amsterdam. I'm guessing they may not have as tight security measures as we do. If there's a weakness anywhere in the world these terrorists will be trying to exploit it.

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Guilded Lilly Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #37
41.  I am questioning
exactly what IS sufficient information to put someone on a no-fly list. It simply seems that a crapload of American citizens find themselves on that list for no apparent reason, and as a domino effect, the TSA and Homeland Security put a lot of people through a lot of *processing* hell that makes their traveling a nightmare and yet this very questionable bozo easily gets through with a pass.

Amsterdam has been quoted in the news as a very highly efficient city regarding air security.

And right away, our security forces go off the map about not allowing people to use bathrooms and not being able to move out of your seat, or put anything in your lap. It often makes the whole system look like amateurish bullies who truly don't have sufficient organization or common sense necessary to carry out this very serious job.

The ring wing chatter sites aren't the reason this whole process looks inefficient.
The process looks inefficient because in many cases it IS.

I am also sure that hundreds of potential threats have been thwarted, and for that I am very grateful.
But many of these new regulations being considered are misdirected and ridiculous.

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
35. I see the conspiracy nuts are out in this thread.
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. That's A Given. n/t
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
40. If the pantie bomber roasted his weenie how's he gonna do the virgin thing in the afterlife?
Won't a scorched dick and roasted nuts make it problematic in the afterlife with his virgins? I'm a little surprised anybody was able to convince him this was a good idea.


:shrug:


Laura
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. Phase One: Explode Underpants. Phase Two: ? Phase Three: The end of America!
We KNOW who was behind this...





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