Militia movement resurfaces across nation

[NeoConsSuck]

Source: MSNBC

Resurgence in part coincides with the arrival of Obama administration

NIKISKI, Alaska - Norm Olson's genial tone belies his reputation as a radical militiaman, yet here he is, at 63, an affable grandfather explaining why Americans should arm themselves against their government.

Walking stick in hand, clad in military fatigues, he strolls a trail in the woods near his home, located on 22 acres near Nikiski, a small, unincorporated community with isolated roads and no local government. The nearest state trooper post is two towns away.

A fellow militiaman, armed with an assault rifle, walks along as Olson — a man whose conspiracy theories were so extreme that he was kicked out of the group he founded, the Michigan Militia, 15 years ago — discourses on the need for a paramilitary Alaska Citizens Militia.

<snip>
Olson's militia is minuscule at the moment, but there has been a resurgence of the militia movement nationwide, in part coinciding with the advent of the Obama administration. At least 50 new right-wing militia groups have been identified by the Montgomery, Ala.-based Southern Poverty Law Center, a nonprofit civil rights organization. All have formed within the last two years, many spreading their speeches and combat exercises on YouTube.



Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34070149/ns/us_news-life /

[Robb]

1. Any military DUers care to parse his medals for us?

Supposedly a retired USAF master sgt. Seems a little over-decorated to me.

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. Maybe it's a bar code for "Certifiable Fruitcake"

[Rick Myers]

3. Pic is too small to get a good zoom...

But that might be about right for a msgt in the USAF since Vietnam... My eye sight sucks, but I only see 9 ribbons... I had 2 in 4 years, so, after 20 years...

on edit: may be 12 ribbons.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

7. If I squint, it looks like either 12 or 15 ribbons.

The trick I always use is to look for the National Defense Service Medal, which is one that everyone on active duty gets when it is authorized. In general, anything above that is an award for stuff you did, and anything below it is an award you get for places you have been.

The NDSM is red and yellow, and as near as I can tell it is in the middle of the second row from the top, so he has few personal awards. But it looks like his personal awards have some stars on the ribbons, which indicate multiple awards of that ribbon.

[CLANG]

19. I agree that if he was in Vietnam the ribbon count could be that high.

Not that I know what I'm talking about!

[Crowman1979]

75. Totally fake! No branch of the military allows ribbons to be worn with any utility uniform.

Just another wingnut schmuck who was discharged for mental instability.

[AlphaCentauri]

4. How do we call these guys when they act in socialist countries?

Dissidents

[Ter]

51. Or guerilla's

[No Elephants]

54. "We" or the media? And by "these guys" do you mean militias

arming themsdelves against their government? I don't know of a lot of militias in socialist countries. I don't even know of many militias in communist countries. And are we talking about countries where people truly elect their governments, or are we talking about countries where elections are relatively meaningless?


I don't think attempting to equate every situation where people are armed is at all meaningful or valid. Beyond that, I don't know what point you are trying to make.

[AlphaCentauri]

87. The point is

that those groups are supported by the right wing as they support any other group that destabilize countries that are not in line with the US.

[jasi2006]

84. When Saddam fought off people takiing up arms agains his government

we called him evil, abutcher, dictator etc. So I gues we don't care about a call to arms against our own government.

[unkachuck]

5. "...Americans should arm themselves against their government."

....I've felt for a very long time, the Left-of-center patriotic American deserve his/her own powerful militia movement....we need security and protection too, maybe even more so....

....Americans should arm themselves against their fellow Americans....

[sasquatch]

12. Same here

[JoeyT]

37. That wouldn't last long.

If a left of center group started a militia it would be crushed within a week, if it took them that long.
Just take a look at the difference in how our peaceful protests are treated. Our sit ins and marches are hammered with riot weapons, the right wing protests that have people carrying around loaded guns and waving signs encouraging violence are filmed and cheered.

[No Elephants]

50. Catch 22. Many on the left are non-violent, or pacifists, or both. And many of us tend not

to favor proliferation of arms in the military, let alone in the civilian population.

[Arctic Dave]

6. This knucklehead is at it again.

Unfortanetly there is not a shortage of stupid and ignorant in Nikiski.
Edit:
as for the black man not wanting to say his name for aninimty, dude, your on Nikiski, there is maybe five black guys in the entire town and I grew up with two of them. You won't be hard to identify.

[greengestalt]

8. Gold will be the trigger to their murderous lunacy

I've worked with a lot of these types and what scares me is that they buy the "Buy Gold" line. They are putting all their savings into gold, buying coins, etc.


Except the "Gold Boom" is another inflated (by big companies) scheme designed to get money from people buying in, then also from them desperate to buy out. Just like the Housing boom, the Dot.com boom and lesser things like the Comic Book boom and -ewww- the "Beanie Babies" thing.


So, when the value of Gold suddenly drops like the Hunt Brother's Silver manipulation did, they'll find gold back to it's more or less stable $200-$400 an ounce when they've been buying it at $700-today's $1000+ value. And gold isn't a currency, it's a commodity. With the exception of buying drugs, anyone willing to trade with you gold for dollars in the states is going to scalp you mercilessly.


Gold will drop, likely when Obama does trigger a mini-90s boom. And, even if he doesn't the price is so inflated, people will stop buying faster than they have to plead the scalper to buy it back when the bills come due and collapse in panic overnight. Then all these armed nutcases who heroize murderers and torturers and see Obama as the "Antichrist" will really go nuts...well nuttier...

[Odin2005]

40. Oh God, don't give me nightmares!

[KansDem]

44. A little off topic, but remember "Shakey's?"

From a DU thread from 2007

7. WTF??? Not the Hunts AGAIN???!!!
This name keeps popping up like a recurring case of hemorrhoids.

I first encountered this name, albeit indirectly, back in the 1970s when I was a student in college. Near the university was a Shakey's Pizza, a great place for college kids to hang out. It had good pizza, long wooden tables to sit at, a dark-wood decor, ragtime music and old movies of Laurel & Hardy. I must have spent countless hours there on Friday afternoons and evenings after classes. Then, about the mid- to late-1970s the Shakey's parlors began to disappear. I wondered at the time, "Hmmm...?" but since I had graduated and went to work, my "Shakey's Days" were essentially over.

Until I read in the late 1980s that Shakey's about that time had been bought by the Hunt Brothers. In an article written by a former Shakey's employee who had gone on to become financially successful, he described how the company went under after the Hunt Brother purchase. The author wanted to buy (or was in the process of buying) the Shakey's corporation to return it to its former glory (sort of...we can't truly "go home"). But the purchase of Shakey's by the Hunt Brothers coincided with the decline in Shakey's quality and restaurants.

Then there was the attempt to corner the silver market:

The Hunt Brothers and the Silver Bubble
Brian Trumbore
President/Editor, StocksandNews.com
In 1973, the Hunt family of Texas, possibly the richest family in America at the time, decided to buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation. Gold could not be held by private citizens at that time, so the Hunts began to buy silver in enormous quantity.

In 1979 the sons of patriarch H.L. Hunt, Nelson Bunker and William Herbert, together with some wealthy Arabs, formed a silver pool. In a short period of time they had amassed more than 200 million ounces of silver, equivalent to half the world's deliverable supply.

When the Hunt's had begun accumulating silver back in 1973 the price was in the $1.95 / ounce range. Early in '79, the price was about $5. Late '79 / early '80 the price was in the $50's, peaking at $54.

Once the silver market was cornered, outsiders joined the chase but a combination of changed trading rules on the New York Metals Market (COMEX) and the intervention of the Federal Reserve put an end to the game. The price began to slide, culminating in a 50% one-day decline on March 27, 1980 as the price plummeted from $21.62 to $10.80.

The collapse of the silver market meant countless losses for speculators. The Hunt brothers declared bankruptcy. By 1987 their liabilities had grown to nearly $2.5 billion against assets of $1.5 billion. In August of 1988 the Hunts were convicted of conspiring to manipulate the market.

--more--
Buy and Hold

So why should I not be surprised to see them tied in with yet another sleazy deal? To me, "Hunt Brothers" will always mean "scoundrels engaged in chicanery"

DU thread

To me, "Shakey's" will always be the quintessential "pizza parlor."

[krabigirl]

9. Lol, why didn't these idiots feel the need to arm themselves against the Bush junta?

[Posteritatis]

11. It was employing many of them? (nt)

[izquierdista]

10. Shouldn't that be "he trolls a trail"

I hope his unmaintained bridge falls on him soon. That would be karma, if all the right wing trolls died off due to bridges collapsing on top of them.

[Bobbieo]

14. Some of them are New Age Fraud groups like the Camel's Eye Treaty

that is infiltrating Native American tribes.

[Chulanowa]

17. I just looked that up

And I have never, never seen anything stupider.

[The Doctor.]

21. Well, let me think about it.... (dial-up warning)

Well... there was this;





But how many really wore those?








Then, there was a doozy from back in the day;







Speaking of flashbacks;






Now That's some high-quality stupid right there. But not quite the calibre we're looking for. ('scuse the pun)




Hmmmmm.......












Nah..... more like...








Nope.... still not it.












Uhhhh....










Well, that was a class of it's own.





Hmmm... how about... ACKKKK!





My eyes! (and yours... haha!)

Getting warmer... Maybe....








Hmmmm.... that was the best I could come up with.


I tried.

[Chulanowa]

23. I liked Crystal pepsi

I was like, 11, though.

[No Elephants]

55. Camel's Eye? Is the name of that group an oblique reference to

Matthew 19:24: And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Mark 10:25: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.



Luke 18:25: For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

(KJV)

[RedSock]

86. I believe the Camel's Toe group bears watching (eom)

[msongs]

13. fear of a black male president run amok. the gun industry is so grateful to obama nt

[mrbarber]

15. True that.

There is this little restaurant that the Fiancée and me have to pass on our way to our favorite Mediterranean restaurant-(the Gyro's are a gift from God, and their hummus is made fresh all day, everyday)that has a sign out front that reads="Obama: Gun Salesman of the Year".

I make sure to always give them the one finger salute when I drive by. I'd honk, but there's some shady, scary biker characters sitting out front (surprise surprise).

[No Elephants]

59. FYI: You can make decent hummus yourself fresh in under 3 minutes, if you like.

Purists take longer because they use dried chick peas, but the canned ones are just fine. First though, you have to get tahini from a Middle Eastern store (or online). (That will keep in the fridge for a long time after opening.) Other ingredients with the tahini and chick peas are juice from a fresh lemon, smashed garlic, salt. That's it. Anything else is an innovation. Buzz it through a food processor or a blender until it's the right consistency. If you like, after you spread the hummus onto a serving dish or bowl, you can make a small trench or two in it and SLOWLY pour olive oil into the trench. Some people sprinkle paprika on top. I like hummus pieces of raw onion, but this is heresy to many.

I have no recipe because I make most things by eyeballing and tasting, but I'm sure Ms. Google will come up with hundreds if you ask her. FYI: Pita bread freezes and reheats well.

Then again, you may just like going out to eat. That's good, too.

[quakerboy]

20. I thought we had moved on from that

and were now blaming the mexicans for the gun/ammo buying spree now?

[spin]

24. Ammo is just beginning to return to the shelves again...

The reasons for the shortage were diverse.

The majority of gun owners bought ammo and firearms fearing the Obama and the Democrats would implement draconian gun laws.

Some bought guns and ammo as an investment. Buy low, sell higher. Real estate took a dump as did the stock market. Gold is already sky high and if Obama pulls off a recovery, the gold bubble will burst. Guns and ammo are a great investment.

The remainder bought ammo when they could find it to have some available for target practice and hunting. When they found ammo for their weapons, they bought large quantities not knowing when or if they would find it again.

The Obama election caused more guns and ammo to be sold than I have every witnessed. I'm sure the gun industry loves him.

If Obama does push for liberal "feel good" firearms law or a renewal of the assault weapons ban, guns owners who total 80 million citizens AND their families of voting age will turn out at the polls in large numbers to vote against Democrats. The sad part is that it probably will not matter if the Democrats are pro-gun or not. (Many Democrats actually get good or even high ratings from the NRA.)

The balance of power in congress may shift at the midterm election because close elections may be lost because of single issue pro-gun voters.

As Democrats, we need to drop the anti-gun flag once and forever. The Republicans will lose one of their biggest vote producing blocks once gun owners are certain the Democratic Party has forsaken the issue. The anti-gun liberals in our party will be faced with a dilemma. Obviously they will not vote Republican or Independent; the choice will be to vote or not to vote. I predict they WILL vote as there are really important issues that our party is on the right side of.

Our party shoots itself in the foot every time we try to appease the extreme liberal gun haters by pushing gun bans or "feel good" laws.

[quakerboy]

26. I keep hearing that.

I would be interested in some numbers, because what I have heard is all anecdotal. I also found it interesting that there was an article recently about a bunch of middlemen who got caught using family and friends to clean out inventories to send it down to supply the border drug wars.

In the mean time, I think that you are barking up the wrong tree. First off, even if democrats were to "drop" anything, it would make just as much difference as when we dropped death panels. Which is to say that we never did support what we were accused of, and what we actually support is rather irrelevant to what certain sectors will believe. I could supplement my life with a pair of 50 Cal's and my wife's crazy uncle would still believe I was some sort of America hating French Canadian commie hippie fascist, despite the fact that his family are grifters, mine all served in the military, his family is actually French Canadian, and I am a better shot than he will ever hope to be, etc. Whats the point, it makes no difference what we actually support unless we completely coopt the craziest pro-gun position we can find, and even that seems unlikely to make any difference.

[spin]

46. Sadly, you have a point...

that why I said, "The Republicans will lose one of their biggest vote producing blocks once gun owners are certain the Democratic Party has forsaken the issue."

I didn't mention that may take a decade or more.

I would like to see the Democrats move away from "feel good" laws like the renewal of the absolutely useless Assault Weapons Ban. The party could push for improvements in the NICS background check and for requiring all sales of firearms to include the NICS background check. This would eliminate the "gun show loophole".

That would be a tough fight, but worthwhile. Many gun owners would oppose such a bill, but at least it doesn't involve banning, confiscation or registration.

As far as the arms traveling to Mexico, I suspect a lot of these weapons end up in civilian hands. If I lived in Mexico, I sure as hell would want a firearm to defend myself and my family.

To back up that statement:

Mexican Laws

Similar to the U.S. Constitution, the 1917 Mexican Constitution guarantees Mexico’s inhabitants the right to have “arms of any kind in their possession for their protection and legitimate defense.” However, the constitution includes many caveats on private citizens’ ownership of guns, prohibiting those “expressly forbidden by law” and those “the nation may reserve for the exclusive use of the army, navy or national guard.” Furthermore, Mexican law calls for long prison terms for violators.

Mexico, then, has some of the world’s strictest gun-control laws — making guns difficult to obtain legally. Average citizens who want to purchase guns for self-defense or recreational purposes must first get approval from the government. Then, because there are no private-sector gun stores in the country, they must buy weapons through the Defense Department’s Arms and Ammunition Marketing Division (UCAM). In accordance with Mexican law, the UCAM carefully limits the calibers of guns it sells. For example, it does not sell handguns larger than a .380 or .38 Special. Also, under Mexican law, popular handguns such as .357 magnum revolvers and 9 mm pistols are exclusively reserved for the armed forces.

Regardless of these efforts, the illicit arms market has been thriving for decades — not only because firearm laws are not evenly enforced but also because criminals have found a way to circumvent efforts to stem the flow of guns. Moreover, not all illegal guns are in the hands of cartel members and street criminals. A healthy percentage of them are purchased by affluent Mexicans who are not satisfied with the selection of calibers available through the UCAM. Sources say it is not at all unusual to find Mexicans who own prohibited .357 magnum revolvers or .45 caliber pistols for self-defense against kidnappers and armed robbers. In addition to ballistic considerations, Latin machismo is also a factor — some Mexican men want to own and carry powerful, large-caliber pistols.

emphasis added

[saigon68]

45. November 21, 2009 Deer Hunting in WI started TODAY !!!!

CHUCKY SCUMMER AND HIS ILK are the Greatest Motivators for the Wisconsin Puke party since Ronnie Raygun

We were inflicted with a Chicken Hawk Governor and Viet-Nam Draft Dodger Tommy Thompson because of Chucky and his insanity.

Today 800,000 deer hunters take to the woods here. Lots of Union Guys etc voting against their economic interests because of Chucky and his crazy notions to disarm amerika.

Your assessment is more accurate than you realize. That's how certain Mother Fucking Repukes get elected around here.

Side note, haven't seen anything worth shooting today, but there are 8 more days to get a deer. Thank god earn a buck is gone this year


http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20091121/APC0101/91...

[spin]

47. Plenty of deer here in Northern Florida...

I know several people who have had deer cause serious damage to their vehicles here in Northern Florida..

My son in law who drives an 18 wheeler says deer are like rodents especially in Georgia. He creamed one last year when it leaped in front of his truck. I think the deer broke a turn signal and put a minor dent on his truck which he popped out. He says he constantly sees herds of deer at night on the back roads.

But deer are tasty. I also like wild boar meat.

Good luck on your hunt.

[saigon68]

83. Thanks much.

There is an outbreak of Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) in the herd in the south of WI.

The herd is also down considerably from 2006. The last 3 years we have had "Earn a Buck". You had to shoot an antlerless deer, to be allowed to shoot a buck. In my opinion it decimated the herd in Northern WI. But that is the Dept of Nat Resources for you.

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/regs/Deer0...

I live in area 63B

[No Elephants]

67. How did Schumer interfere with deer hunting in Wisconsin?

[saigon68]

82. Chuck Scummer is in every anti-gun commercial in my fine state.

About 1 person in 50 (around here in Northern WI)thinks he is a fine fellow for attempting to disarm amerika.

800,000 deer hunters think the opposite and vote on this one issue for the usual cowardly chicken hawk draft dodging MF RePuke.

That's how this Slime Bag Chuckie is used as the poster boy for Corporate interests. The dirt bag also apparently had at one time a CCWP in N.Y. because it was too dangerous for him in that mold infested cesspool.

Answer your question Sport?

[No Elephants]

61. Depends how you define "anti-gun laws." One man's anti-gun law is another man's

reasonable regulation.

If the only way Democrats can beat Republicans is by being more and more like them, what's the point of beating them at all?

[spin]

62. O.K. I'll bite. How do you define ant-gun laws/ (n/t)

[No Elephants]

64. You define them. You're the one who used the term. It's not a term I would ever choose.

On edit:

Then again, I'd never refer to traffic laws or laws requiring driver's licenses, auto registration and payment of excise taxes "anti-car laws" either.

[spin]

78. Obviously, anti-gun refers to people who dislike or even hate guns...

and would prefer that gun ownership in the United States was severely limited or that all guns were banned and confiscated.

But let me go further than a mere definition but also show an example of an anti-gun liberal Democrat.


Dianne Feinstein

In 1993, Feinstein, along with then-Representative Charles Schumer (D-NY), led the fight to ban many semi-automatic firearms deemed to be assault weapons and restrict the sale of standard capacity firearm magazines. The ban was passed as part of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. In 2004, when the ban was set to expire, Feinstein sponsored a 10-year extension of the ban as an amendment to the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; while the amendment was successfully added, the act itself failed.<39> The act was revived in 2005, but was ultimately passed without an extension of the assault weapons ban.

Feinstein said on CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."<39> In July 2006, Feinstein voted against the Vitter Amendment to prohibit Federal funds being used for the confiscation of lawfully owned firearms during a disaster.<40>
emphasis added

Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe.
Dianne Feinstein
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/diannefein17...

The majority of gun owners feel that there is good gun legislation on the books, for example the NICS background check.

We can see ways to improve these laws but anti-gun groups and politicians are more concerned with banning classes of firearms. Pro-gun people want to see effective legislation passed rather than "feel good" laws. Pro-gun Democrats hate to see important elections lost because our party supports draconian gun control.

[No Elephants]

60. Meh. What's the difference? They all look alike anyway.

[madmom]

16. They were so infatuated with the cardboard cowboy, they now want to be cardboard soldiers.

[FVZA_Colonel]

18. We really are reliving the Clinton years.

I wonder how long it will be until someone decides to "take action" ala McVeigh and Nichols?

[kristopher]

22. Like Stewart said on the Daily Show to Lou Dobbs

Dobbs said anger at "Big Government" has been repressed since 2004 and Stewart replied with something to the effect of "Isn't it strange how it always comes out when it is a Democratic government in power, When they say they want "limited government" what they really mean is a government limited to the Republicans.

Dobbs had no response...

[spin]

25. Bush is the biggest spender since LBJ...

WASHINGTON — George W. Bush, despite all his recent bravado about being an apostle of small government and budget-slashing, is the biggest spending president since Lyndon B. Johnson. In fact, he's arguably an even bigger spender than LBJ.

“He’s a big government guy,” said Stephen Slivinski, the director of budget studies at Cato Institute, a libertarian research group.

The numbers are clear, credible and conclusive, added David Keating, the executive director of the Club for Growth, a budget-watchdog group.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/20767.html {

The article is from October 24, 2007.

It has been said that Bush the Junior and the Republicans spent money like drunken sailors. That's an insult to drunken sailors.

[No Elephants]

69. "George W. Bush, despite all his recent bravado about being an apostle of small government and budge

is the biggest spending president since Lyndon B. Johnson. In fact, he's arguably an even bigger spender than LBJ." And then,

"Take almost any yardstick and Bush generally exceeds the spending of his predecessors." And

"Homeland security spending also has soared, to about $31 billion last year, triple the pre-9/11 number."





So, why not say simply that Dummya was arguably the highest spending U.S. President ever? Based on the article as a whole, that seems more accurate anyway. Seems they were congenitally incapable of discussing a sitting Repupblican President's spending without taking a gratuitous swipe at a Democratic President, even if they had to go back almost half a century and fudge a bit.

Besides, there is no comparison between funding an inherited war in Vietnam and space exploration and everything else AND also establishing Medicare, the EEOC and the rest of the Great Society, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, choosing to invade Iraq and making Halliburton and Blackwater richer.



But what do you expect from the Cato Institute and the Hudson Institute?

[No Elephants]

66. Limited government? Like Dummya's?

Limited government apparent means invading other nations at will, spending like crazy,freeing corporations from government regulation and "poverty" wile seeking to while seeking to limit the school lunch program and to control what I can see on TV and what I can do about reproduction. Not to mention overruling Terry Schiavo's wishes, as found by several courts and declaring catsup a serving of vegetables.

[Union Yes]

27. A $10 per bullet/round/shell tax would put an end to these terrorist training cells. n/t

[taurus145]

28. That's an asinine idea

What about those of us who legitimately use firearms for hunting, clays, target shooting, competitive shooting, etc?

Do you want to price a fair and legal hobby/SOURCE OF FOOD out of the reach of the everyday person?

How inclusive!

[sakabatou]

57. No, it should cost $1,000 a round

That'll at least try to deter people from killing others. There was some comedy piece on this idea.

[aikoaiko]

29. Kudos to the Michigan Militia for bannishing this guy.

Credit where credit is due.

[pipoman]

30. There will always be

extremist idiots on both ends of the spectrum. The militia movement of the 1990's was in response to draconian gun control proposals by a Dem administration, supported by a Dem House and Senate. When the gun control nuts shut up, the militia movement died down. It resurfaced, not to the extent of the 1990's, when the Obama administration came in extolling the virtues of Chicago style gun control. It hasn't reached the level of the 1990's because there has really been no credible move to legislate new gun control laws. The militia movement could be put into hibernation indefinitely if our party would simply remove the gun control plank from the national platform leaving it entirely to the states....it is that simple.

[Paladin]

31. Always Convenient To Blame Democrats For Things, Right? (n/t)

[pipoman]

32. Who's blaming Dems? This is historically accurate.

[Paladin]

63. Historically Accurate, My Ass.

The militia resurgence we're seeing now is on account of there being a black guy in the White House. It's racism, not paranoia over gun-grabbing......

[pipoman]

73. I think it

disingenuous and cheapens our President, accusing every group who disagrees or even opposes Obama of being racist...enough already. It couldn't be that Obama is a Chicago, gun control Democrat who has stated a desire to enact gun control legislation during his Presidency...of coarse not...nooooo...after all the biggest militia movement in recent history was during the presidency of our first black president, Bill, huh?

[Paladin]

76. You're A Gun Obsessive, And It Shows.

Despite you and your cohorts' most fervent wishes, guns counted for exactly jack shit in this last election. If you want to discount the obviously racist edge to the current militia movement, be my guest---you're just revealing yourself to be an apologist for a bunch of well-armed hate junkies; no surprise, there......

[pipoman]

80. Waaaaaaaaaa....You a bad, bad man...You believe in maintaining

the bill of rights..all of them....you a bad, bad man..I'm going to call the bad, bad man names...that's what I hear you saying..you don't know me, my 'minority' employees and my first wife do know me and my tolerance for racism. You have for as long as I've been here, been an unapologetic gun control zealot..with a 'to fuck with the bill of rights if it doesn't say what I wish it said' attitude.

I tried to simply state my position, I thought we could have a conversation...maybe...without calling names. It almost always comes down to people on your side of this issue being unable to be civil. Have a nice life.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Crowman1979]

34. I think the term "Lynch Mob" is a better description of this movement.

I think only an invasion of the USA by an actual country, the resumption of the Korean War and having to fight these militia assholes are the only reason I will re-enlist.

[slackmaster]

35. Re-enlisting would actually disqualify you from fighting domestic crime

http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm

No group is a lynch mob until they conspire to lynch an individual.

[Crowman1979]

41. That's unless your in the National Guard.

[Mari333]

36. shooting up pine trees and drinking beer.

I live in Michigan.

[amandabeech]

48. It always sounded like hunting camp without the animals.

Running around in the woods and shooting the trees sounds like what one of my friends said about the local militia in the part of Michigan in which I grew up. Which was and is a small town in a summer tourist and fruit farming area.

I don't know what the city council says about law ornaments and hanging deer, though. My mom lives out in the township and there are very few ordinances.

[Mari333]

49. must be where I live

betcha it is.

[amandabeech]

58. Check your mail!

[onehandle]

38. Good days for the NRA and the Klan alike. nt

[Odin2005]

39. Did I fall into a time warp and wake up in 1993?

[Crowman1979]

42. Your not the only one!

And to make matters worse, the music sucks! Especially since Kurt Cobain, Dimebag Darrell, Bill Hicks and Layne Staley are dead.

[Ter]

52. I wish

I'd be only 20.

[Odin2005]

65. I'd be 7, LOL!

[No Elephants]

70. I'd be, er, um. Never mind.

[Posteritatis]

85. 1993 was the rehearsal. (nt)

[hollowdweller]

43. Now is not 1993 . Doesn't Heller Mean Anything?????

To me at least a lot of the militias were popular in part due to Clintons gun control initiatives.

I always thought the militias formed in part due to the fact that the argument of the second amendment being whether it was an individual right or only "militia" right so the people who were worried about losing their guns to that argument formed militias so they could keep their guns and be in compliance with being in a "militia"

Now is NOT 1993. The gun lobby is much more powerful. The Supreme Court Ruled the second was an INDIVIDUAL right. In the interim a number of states and even at the federal level gun laws have been relaxed. Obama and the Dems in the congress have not touched gun control with a 10 foot pole.

So while there was at least a slight reason for a thinking gun owner to join a militia in the 90's there's really no reason now other than the anti government hysteria being propogated by the right. Which I think makes these guys more dangerous than the militia dudes of the 90's, because they aren't just gun nuts looking for ways to preserve their right to own guns.

Seriously why is it the republicans are such sore losers?? Every time they get tromped they try to pump up the fringe that it's the end of the republic instead of that they were on the wrong side of public opinion? Jeez, what if the shoe was on the other foot in 2000 and 2004 and WE had won with a razor thin margin with dubious results in two states making the difference??

I worried when Bush was in office some of the things he did for sure but I didn't think it was the end of the country. These guys need to learn how to lose. And how to win. Clinton won in part because he was center right. He knew the mood of the country would not elect a liberal. The GOP does not have the option of running from the center left. They'd probably SHOOT a left leaning republican.

[pipoman]

68. I don't disagree

I think that the militia types are usually pretty concentrated on the far right end of the 'right/left continnuum'. I believe that in the 1990's the line of people who joined militias and/or began thinking that way progressed leftward on the continuum, then slowly receded when the Clinton admin backed off and quit pushing gun control legislation. Then, from early in the Obama campaign, it was apparent that Obama favors strict gun control. That said, it is also apparent that gun control probably isn't going to gain any traction anytime soon. Because of this I don't believe that the militia movement will progress too far left of the extreme right. IMHO

[No Elephants]

71. That is the first ime I've sen Clinton described as center right.

[No Elephants]

53. I call bullshit on MSNBC for this article.

Telling us 50 militias, miniscule or not, have formed within the last two years does not tell us there has been a "resurgence." How many militias tend to form every two years? How many individuals do these 50 groups represent and how many individuals have been involved in past groups? The implication is that we had a surge of militias when Clinton was in office and a resurgence now that Obama is in office, but the article does not back up either segment of that.


BTW, MSNBC, Obama has not been in office for 1 year yet, let alone 2.

I'm not saying anything is false, mind you. I am saying only that the article makes claims it simply does not support.

[Politicub]

56. Oh no - here we go again - More Timothy McVeigh'esque, right wing madness

I wonder which militia will be so bold as to identify a building with a nursery like the Murrah building?

[Dappleganger]

72. This is why we choose to be armed.

To protect us from the 'nutters.

[markbark]

74. Wait...What?

A fellow militiaman, armed with an assault rifle, walks along as Olson — a man whose conspiracy theories were so extreme that he was kicked out of the group he founded, the Michigan Militia, 15 years ago — discourses on the need for a paramilitary Alaska Citizens Militia.

This guys was too bugfuck insane for the goddamn Michigan Militia?!?

Wow!... Maybe the Air Force could spare a Predator or two for a live fire exercise?
Like most vermin, if you don't get rid of them now, you'll have many more to deal with in the future

[patrice]

77. Sounds like a member of the great warrior society in my family. Ex-military lifer, non-combat,

telling the rest of us about the glories of the warrior culture that is for, by, of no cause, no social philosophy, no value system, no government, nothing other than being a Warrior for being a Warrior's sake. He's retired after a life of never having to compete for one day in the corporate world and he tells us that everything came from, every person is whoever s/he is, all culture, all private property and values - NONE of it would exist without the Warriors.

Depresses me when I think of this.

[mddem9850]

79. Stupid morons

[skoalyman]

81. Sarah Palin's body guards