Global temperatures will rise 6C by end of century, say scientists

[clear eye]

Source: The Guardian

Alok Jha
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 17 November 2009 18.00 GMT

Most comprehensive CO2 study to date is expected to give greater urgency to diplomatic manoeuvring before Copenhagen

The new study is the most comprehensive analysis to date of how economic changes and shifts in the way people have used the land in the past five decades have affected the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere.


"The global trends we are on with CO2 emissions from fossil fuels suggest that we're heading towards 6C of global warming," said Corinne Le Quéré of the University of East Anglia who led the study with colleagues at the British Antarctic Survey.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/17/global-temperature-rise

---

That's degrees Centigrade folks.

[XemaSab]

1. .

[Dead_Parrot]

5. +1 nt

[villager]

2. that's basically it, then

n/t

[daleanime]

3. That's scary ....

:hurts:

[Zoeisright]

4. I think it's going to be a lot sooner than that.

Models are already too conservative. I'd bet by 2050 we're toast. Literally.

[glitch]

15. Unless the model valued runaway feedback loop from methane hydrate melt you are correct. nt

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

73. We've got to survive 2012 first.

[earth mom]

6. Meanwhile Obama & Congress fuck around and do nothing about it.

:grr:

[villager]

7. Doing something entails "political risk." Evidently, extinction doesn't

n/t

[earth mom]

12. Money and protecting corporate america is all that matters to them. nt

[Lorien]

47. If they think this won't profoundly effect most of us in our lifetimes

they are very, very wrong. Obama himself will see the effects of inaction. His daughters won't have much of a chance of ever seeing old age.

[Nambe]

14. I can see Earth First style civil disobedience becoming common.

I didn't really get active against the Vietnam war until my friends started dying. Waiting that long to fight climate change will be way too late. IMO, the US government is incapable of dealing with this issue. I hope China and the EU take charge.

[glitch]

16. And South America.

Apparently the good ol USA is already past its prime, not the innovator anymore and looking like it's not likely to revive enough to even attempt to be.

[psychopomp]

27. Then you are hoping for something highly unlikely

China is not likely to do anything that will hinder it's fragile growth. Right now they are sacrificing their environment to keep their economy on track. No, I'm afraid humanity will be unable to cooperate enough to solve this problem.

[hatrack]

34. Think God's Gardeners as depicted in "Oryx And Crake"

And as for the OP, what can one say except maybe "Oops!!"

At least it won't be dull.

[alfredo]

42. I'm reading "The Year of the Flood." It centers on the Gardeners. Jimmy and

Glenn (Snowman and Crake) are in the story too.

[joshcryer]

25. They're hoping the "almighty markets" take care of the problem, but as the abstract says...

...action needs to be taken now, no messing around.

[Kolesar]

38. ON THE CONTRARY: Obama issued auto fuel efficiency standards half a year ago

The stimulus involved spending on renewable energy

[dysfunctional press]

95. runaway freight-train headed our way- meet bb gun.

the fuel efficiency standards he championed are meaningless. even worse than meaningless, because it gives them something to point at and hold up as progress...further holding up real and meanigful reforms.

although- at this point we'd probably have to revert to practically stone age culture in order to prevent or even stave off what's coming, so it's not like they could do ANYTHING to stop it anyway.

[Harry Monroe]

8. If my conversion table is correct, 6C=43 degrees Farenheit

We are truly fucked!!

[Gregorian]

11. That's ambient temp. They're talking change in temp.

It's more like delta F = ((C2x9/5+32)-(C1x9/5+32))

At 45C that would be a change to 51C which would be a change in F of about 11 degrees.

It's what I have always thought to be the case. Massive petroleum combustion. I never thought we would get away with a few degrees. Too many people burning too much fuel. A two part equation. Of which only one part is even being discussed.

[Angleae]

19. While 6C = 43F, an increase of +6C = +9.6F.

One degree C is equal to 5/8 of one degree F.

[jimlup]

22. Not exactly... Delta_T = 6C gives 10.8 F

The conversion factor is 9/5 not 8/5 because:

(212-32)/100 = 1.8 = 9/5

[Javaman]

30. true, but at roughly +6F rise globally, we won't live to see +10F.

so whether it's 9+ or 10+, it really doesn't matter anymore.

Laughing doesn't stop the crying anymore.

[jimlup]

45. indeed...

[joshcryer]

24. I read that and I laughed *really* hard. I've made that kind of mistake before.

Funny though. God forbid we have to deal with 43 degree increase, haha. I can't imagine how you felt when you calculated that. :)

[NYC Democrat]

9. thats about the middle of what was predicted With out a large scale plan.

Hey as terrible as the news is look on the bright side we most likely won't be getting 12C of global warming.

[Aragorn]

10. 46 years ago my childrens' encyclopedia basically said

we've already screwed things up too much.

[Delphinus]

28. Really?

It was talking about global climate change then? I'm not doubting, just surprised.

[Overseas]

85. It was 30+ years ago, during college, for me. But Big Oil fought back hard and won.

We were reading about the effects of increasing atmospheric deterioration by too rapidly adding CO2 to our atmosphere, but excited about how American ingenuity could establish alternative energy sources independent of Big Oil. We were excited about cars that were getting 35-40 mpg, talking about sustainable development and alternative energy.

Climate scientists were warning about global warming back then, but gave people warnings couched in gentler terms-- so people said-- HEY THAT"S NOT SO BAD. I LIKE WARM WEATHER. Most scientists didn't want to be too alarmist-- so they didn't emphasize the worst scenarios-- the destabilization that warming could inflict on ocean currents that kept European climates temperate; the melting of glaciers in the Himalayas that could diminish the water supply for the Indian subcontinent; etc. Climate scientists wanted to give people hope that change could avoid the major problems. Instead, short sighted quarterly-profits people took those mild warnings and said-- Hey, never mind then. Those scientists disagree. There's still controversy about it all--

Then Grandpa Reagan came in and said IT'S MORNING IN AMERICA. Forget those depressing ideas about wearing sweaters more, doing bothersome recycling and those ugly solar panels on the White House. Forget that depressing Jimmy Carter, let's party. Cut taxes and rack up the deficits and free up the finance sector-- spend baby spend!

BUT THAT WAS OVER THIRTY (30) YEARS AGO. Exxon Mobil and others have paid millions since then on anti-climate-change PR to highlight the 0.01% of scientists who can pretend that we are not seeing unprecedented global warming. Those who can point to heating and cooling cycles of eons ago and not look at the jump upward in those cycles after 1800 AD. They wave around climate change denial language of 30 years ago, without taking the empirical, visible evidence of current accelerated global warming into account. ALL TO PROTECT THEIR PRIVATE PROFITS.

It makes me sad to see that counterproductive PR still hard at work.

Instead of us learning all about how the warming of the oceans and deterioration of our atmosphere affect the ocean currents that control part of our global climate and how we can avoid catastrophic changes in those currents, we still have effective PR at work encouraging folks to seek out some "Hey Look at Me; I'm a Debunker" cachet to delay making changes. They're encouraged to feel like tough guys for ignoring the clear and mounting evidence of our planet experiencing accelerated warming which we should be preparing for. To pretend that India's water supply is of no consequence to us. That losing a few islands and regions at current sea levels is no big deal. Stick with Big Oil.

Furthermore, it has been depressing that we've known since the 70's that petroleum supplies were limited, and solar could help stretch those supplies to last longer, but we pushed solar aside for so long, saying it was "too expensive." Not acknowledging that oil had been so much cheaper because we didn't factor the cost of all our warfare into it. Or the cost of cleaning up our atmosphere. Even as we tore out the tropical forests that helped absorb the CO2, loving all that gorgeous tropical hardwood for our interior furnishings for decades.

It has depressed me to see our country Stick With Big Oil at such great costs. To see that solar power may be too democratic for our country which has become accustomed to domination by large multinational corporations. If solar becomes too accessible, states, cities and even villages could establish their own independent power sources. The American people wouldn't have their success and survival so closely tied to the price of oil. How could our so-called democracy cope with having states, towns, villages and other countries in control of their own power sources? Big Oil has ruled us for so long.

Big Oil has trained a whole new generation of debunkers to maintain its power. Never mind independent alternative energy sources, they tell the new crop of deniers. Here are those talking points from 30 years ago-- they still work. Don't try to establish decentralized power. Stick with us.

[Delphinus]

105. Thank you for such a

thought-provoking and honest response.

[Piewhacket]

13. Our children are screwed,

[Lorien]

48. WE are screwed

They already expect all natural resources to be plundered from the earth before 2050.

[slackmaster]

17. Telling people of a disaster that will occur after they have all died doesn't carry much weight

Sorry, I had to say it. That is human nature IMO.

[Uncle Joe]

18. Then with each passing day the weight will increase.

I just hope we don't get crushed.:(

[Javaman]

62. yeah, because people having kids today don't need to care.

:eyes:

The end will be bad, but the lead up will be worse.

Imagine if you will the circumstances of our nation running out of power as the earth heats up.

That is currently happening and the worst is yet to come.

We will experience it.

It just won't suddenly happen.

Unless you are currently in your late 70's, you will feel it's effects before you pass away.

Say you are 20 years old. IF you live a long life by current standards, you will experience the absolute worst of this. If you have a child today, right now, they will certainly experience this as a part of their life.

This is not "after" we die. This is now.

This moment.

Here.

What we are doing at this very moment in time, is having a direct effect on that moment in the future when climate change peaks.

It's our actions that have this effect.

Me, writing this response is contributing to that future.

Every. single. thing. we. do.

I don't have kids. But I'm not so selfish to believe that because I won't live to see the final result, climate change and my contribution to it, is someone else's problem to deal with.

[Quixote1818]

20. Here is what happens if the world rises 6 degrees. Nat. Geographic Video

Not sure is this is C or F? If it's Fahrenheit then we are in even bigger trouble!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8qmaAMK4cM

[Delphinus]

29. Thanks for this.

I think they should make that into a commercial and show it time and time and time again.

[jimlup]

21. Oh F*$@!

We're in deep trouble. We have to stop dumping CO2 into the atmosphere NOW.

[Javaman]

31. you are right, but that would require everyone and everything to stop

and for the enter civilization of the earth to suddenly adopt a pre-industrial way of life.

Do you honestly believe THAT will happen? Hell, those morons* in Copenhagen can't even agree on a small change in lifestyle.

we are fucked. Plain and simple.

We say Oh Fuck!, now, but in the very near future when the reality of the situation really sinks in and the various governments scramble to take way to late action, watching them plug the rupturing dike with Kleenex will be the really OH FUCK! moment.

[Ghost Dog]

57. My thinking these last 35 years since.

So, I have no kids of my own. But I have a niece and a great-niece. And I care about your kids, all kids, too.

Am I depressed?

I am ready for war.

[Odin2005]

23. We are SOOOO screwed!

:scared:

[Javaman]

32. naaa, screwed means we would at least have the hope of some sort

of existence afterward. We are dead.

I will continue to live a carbon light or carbon-less life and continue to grow my food (harder and harder as it will get), until the end.

there is no point in rioting or creating more problems. I will enjoy what I have now, and appreciate this small slice of history that we had the opportunity to enjoy (even though we completely ruined it) for the short time that is left.

There are no miracles, just nature being nature. I will appreciate it that much more.

And ironically, I will smile more.

[Delphinus]

40. Wow, Javaman,

I really appreciate your view. I cannot stop this - one person, heck, even if the entire world were to wake up, this moment, and refrain, it wouldn't be enough. There's a word for what happens, which I can't recall at the moment, but Jared Diamond wrote about in his book, Collapse. What we're doing now will effect the world up to 50 years from now, so, you're right, we are dead.

I will do as you - continue to live as though what I do makes a difference - and, hopefully, smile more. I don't think it would occur to me to riot and scream and make life miserable - I'd rather die as peacefully as possible.

[Javaman]

41. Well, like I like to say...

people who riot are usually people who refuse the reality of something they cannot change.

I know not everyone shares this outlook, but I have never seen any form of violence lead to good.

My mission is to leave more than I have taken. Sadly, the less and less I use, I know there are other people out there that continue to take more and more.

Equilibrium would be nice, but sadly we are way past that point.

What needs to be done should have been done 30+ years ago.

Jimmy Carter will be looked upon as a profit one day and the neo-cons the harbingers of destruction. And by association the rest of us because we were lulled into a stupor of greed and the MTV'ing of our society. It's not about what we know to be true any longer, it's what we think is true via what is feed to us via propaganda.

Copenhagen, cap n trade, kyoto and the climate change bill are nothing more than ointment for a broken femur. No amount of tsk tsking or feigned indignation will solve our problems now.

We had a saying back east on Long Island when something was considered futile. It went, "it's like shoveling shit against the tide". It my vanish for a while but when it comes back in, it's as if it never left.

What needs to be done and what is currently being passed off as "effective measures" are light years apart.

So as a result, I do what I can, even though I know in the end, it won't matter in the least.

So rather than go insane, I choose to smile and appreciate what I do have.

Nature is a magnificent thing when left along. Horrible when played with. Disastrous when ignored.

We have ignored nature for a very long time.

Nature, when it has to, can do some incredible things to heal itself.

We are experiencing that first stage in the healing process.

I smile at it's omnipotent grandeur.

:)

[MilesColtrane]

55. Turn on my V.C.R., same one I've had for years

James Brown on the T.A.M.I. show,
Same tape I've had for years
I sit in my old car, same one I've had for years
Old battery's running down, it ran for years and years

Turn on the radio, the static hurts my ears
Tell me, where would I go? I ain't been out in years
Turn on the stereo, it's played for years and years
An Otis Redding song, it's all I own

When the world is running down
You make the best of what's still around
When the world is running down
You make the best of what's still around

Plug in my M.C.I, to excercise my brain
Make records on my own, can't go out in the rain
Pick up the telephone, I've listened here for years
No one to talk to me, I've listened here for years

When the world is running down
You make the best of what's still around
When the world is running down
You make the best of what's still around
When I feel lonely here, don't waste my time with tears
I run 'Deep Throat' again, it ran for years and years
Don't like the food I eat, the cans are running out
Same food for years and years, I hate the food I eat

When the world is running down
You make the best of what's still around
When the world is running down
You make the best of what's still around
When the world is running down
You make the best of what's still around
When the world is running down
You make the best of what's still around

[AlphaCentauri]

26. The free market dictates that every human has to have a gasoline automobile

actually the freaked communist block of the 20 century prevented this from happening sooner.

[The2ndWheel]

35. Automobiles are a symptom, not a cause

[AlphaCentauri]

36. As long as they release carbon monoxide they are part of the problem

[The2ndWheel]

43. They're part of the problem, period

They're just not the cause of it. They're a byproduct of the larger issue. The same way CO2 is really just a byproduct of the deeper foundation to the structure we're attempting to build.

[Lorien]

49. And that everyone eat beef-which is far more harmful than automobiles

an inconvenient truth that most won't face around here.

[AlphaCentauri]

56. the excrement from cows and pigs it's a small fraction compare to humans waste n/t

[Javaman]

61. I think the poster is referring to the amount of fossil fuels required to

rise and feed a steer.

The corn that needs to be grown for food. That corn is grown using fossil fueled tractors and harvesters. The corn is fertilized via byproducts of natural gas and oil.

the trucking of the feed to the cattle yards.

The off gassing from the steers as they eat corn which is not designed to be eaten by steers or cows.

The slaughtering houses which operates like assembly lines running 24/7. Lights, heat, refrigeration,etc provided by fossil fuels.

Finally the transport of the slaughtered beef to market, which is sometimes 3000 miles or more.

As for myself, I eat beef, but mine is from a local rancher who uses a local USDA certified butcher to slaughter the steer in a humane way. This rancher also grows his own hay for the cattle to graze upon. It's a closed system that has a much much smaller footprint that a factory farm raised steer.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[GliderGuider]

37. As scary as this is, it's not the whole story.

It's not just warming that's the issue. When you consider the interactions of all the converging crises we face today, the picture looks a lot worse. That's what turns it from a problem (that might be soluble) to a predicament (that permits adaptation and partial mitigation only).

The interacting crises are in the broad domains of the "Three E's": ecology, energy and economics. The main components of "ecology" are global warming, biodiversity loss, the depletion of ocean fish stocks, the depletion of fresh water, reductions in soil fertility, and various types of pollution. Energy problems include oil depletion, the attendant problems of energy/infrastructure replacement, and reconfiguring our social systems for lower energy use. Economic problems revolve around the current economic crisis that is affecting credit, debt and capital pools around the world, as well as the potential for a long-term slowdown if energy supply or EROI starts to slip. I’d add social issues to that mix as well, with wealth and resource inequities, social complexity problems (a la Joseph Tainter) and the inertia of human herding behaviour playing large roles.

The boundaries of the problem domain are much larger than just global warming. So before anyone starts thinking "Hey, we've got 90 years to address this problem," consider that the interactions of all the issues I mentioned above are happening right now, and are already making our problems worse in various places around the globe.

One last thing to keep in mind: the 6C figure being discussed is a global average. That means that many places (especially closer to the poles) will experience up to twice that amount of warming.

We are in a very deep bucket of shit.

[Ghost Dog]

59. Yes. Climate change itself is but a symptom that has been latched-upon for communication reasons

in this day-and-age of mass-cretinizing media.

What you describe as the "inertia of human herding behaviour", I reckon, is key.

We need a herdsman/woman. Fast.

[grantcart]

39. I met with a government scientist yesterday who said that while the

global warming numbers are terrible,


The changes in the Oceans' accidity is even worse, that scientists are basically walking around in shock with the new data that has been gathered.


Say good bye to the food chain, mass extinction of sea spicies.


http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/07/the-acid-ocean-the-other-problem-with-cosub2sub-emission/

[Odin2005]

44. Oh Holy Jesus FUCK!

:scared:

[Garam_Masala]

46. Can't wait to rise 6 degrees, it will

1. cut down my heating bills
2. allow me to play more golf & outdoor sports during winter
3. driving will be easier with less snow & ice
4. my backyard vegetable patch will be more productive
5. give me less colds & flu during winter

so yeah...I can't wait!

Oh but wait that is another 91 years away!
Dang!

[Lorien]

50. You'd better read up on reality kid

that, or get your head out of your behind. Long before all life goes extinct their will be famines and wars unlike anything you can imagine. We are already on track to have sucked the world dry of all natural resources by 2050.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8qmaAMK4cM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jul/07/research.waste

[Garam_Masala]

67. I will believe in man made global warming if

you can explain to me how the 4 mile thick glaciers in the
mid-west melted 10-12 thousand years ago? In other words
what caused the end of last ice age? Did the cave man burn
too many twigs? In case you have'nt heard, the great lakes
were formed by melting of those glaciers. Great lakes are
the largest body of fresh water on earth.

[fascisthunter]

101. you've already made up your mind

who you think you are fooling? Ya gotta be dense to not understand global warming... it has NOTHING to do with belief, that's your first mistake.

[Uncle Joe]

103. Your logic should also apply to man made saunas and hot tubs.

People get fevers and chills, it's all part of the natural cycle, so I imagine remaining in a sauna or hot tub for a day or two should have no effect on body temperature, chill out and go to sleep.

[hatrack]

51. Two choices here . . .

1. Pull your head out.

2. Just go ahead and start voting GOP - why wait if you're already most of the way there?

:eyes:

[Ghost Dog]

60. That's not fair. This one would probably call itself

a (hopeless) Libertarian.

[Garam_Masala]

65. I had no idea GOP has a monopoly

as non-believers in man made global warming.

[Nihil]

52. You forgot one ...

6. It would mean that the outside temperature would be double your IQ.

:eyes:

[Garam_Masala]

69. Is that all your parents taught you?

To throw inane insults at other people you don't even know?

Just to make the record clear, I graduated with straight A's
with a masters degree in engineering and my work career centered
around developing expert systems for computerized manufacturing.

[Javaman]

72. And that makes you an expert in climate change and environmentalism, right?

LOL

now we know your resume via your massive ego, please explain how that qualifies you over 30,000 peer reviewed scientists who show that humans are responsible for climate change?

And just because a glacier melted 12000 years ago, doesn't mean that humans aren't responsible now.

So weird. so very weird.

[Garam_Masala]

74. very simple...lots of common sense!

see my posts below why I am skeptical of
"man made" global warming. I am convinced
global warming can happen. It has happened
for millions of years in the past since when
dinosaurs walked the earth.

[FedUpWithIt All]

75. I will never understand why there is such need to debate at this increasingly unstable stage.

Really, does it matter WHY it is happening? Shouldn't the argument be put on the back burner while we collectively come up with ways to lessen the affects of the obvious changes that we all agree are/will be occurring?

It is like debating why the boat you are standing aboard is taking on water. Just as silly is an argument about the danger of the rising water. You would have to be a straight fool to stand and debate the issue while the evidence is irrefutable that there IS water coming aboard.

More room in the lifeboats for those who feel action is more important than discussion, i guess. We can discuss the issue when the proof of the argument settles with the emergence of the eventual outcome...if we live to see the outcome.

[Garam_Masala]

78. Why is global "cooling" in the news now?

They are predicting record cold winter this year.
No one knows what NATURE is up to.

Man is like a pimple on an elephant's ass....totally insignificant compared to nature.

[NickB79]

84. Where have there been predictions of record cold this year?

Put up a link, because I think you're just making shit up now.

[Garam_Masala]

88. Here is the link

which took me 5 seconds to find....why people always ask
for links when they can find it so easily themselves?

You are putting me on defense and that means the PROSECUTION (you)
has to prove the guilt beyond the shadow of a doubt

http://isthereglobalcooling.com/

[NickB79]

98. Ah, I see the problem here

When you said "They are predicting record cold this year", I thought by "they" you meant reputable weathermen, government weather forecasting agencies, etc. Hell, I even would have given some weight to the Farmer's Almanac.

Instead, it's a personal website (run by a car salesman out of Maryland and Virginia!) of news stories cherry-picked to re-affirm the author's preconceived beliefs.

For example: *October 2009 US temperatures according to NOAA were the third coldest in 115 years of record keeping, 4 degrees below the average. link

Oh no, sounds scary! Any minute now those glaciers are gonna be roaring down the plains! But when you do some more research you find: http://www.examiner.com/x-20134-Milwaukee-Weather-Examiner~y2009m11d20-Octobers-global-temperature-was-sixthwarmest-on-record

"October's global temperature was sixth-warmest on record"

I could go on and on, but I suspect that further tearing apart this website's claims would be a waste of my time.

[Javaman]

77. LOL fail.

so now common sense trumps scientific research? LOL and you call yourself and "engineer". LOL

I think you would be better suited by joining the teabagger morons, they always use That "common sense" argument. LOL

LOLOLOL priceless, simply priceless!!! LOL

[Garam_Masala]

79. More and more news that GLOBAL COOLING is back again

Do you recall global cooling was the buzz 20 years ago?

[Javaman]

81. LOLOL Keep digging!!! LOL

Man, you are comedic gold!!!

LOLOL

[Garam_Masala]

89. I am still waiting for your explanation of why & how last ice age

ended. Was that humongous global warming caused by cave man
burning too many twigs?

[Javaman]

104. Continue to wait, I'm not a climatologist, never said I was and neither are you. LOL

As a result, you may wait forever, since it appears you have a disdain for actual research.

And it's not my place to make a defense of it, or prove it or disprove it, that's the whole point of why there are people that actually study this stuff, so I don't have to. See how it works?

I choose to listen to the 30,000 scientists who have studied the climate for a living than some ranting engineer who doesn't have a clue.

cheers.

[fascisthunter]

102. you are too dumb to have common sense

you really think you know more than the scientif community, yet BELIEVE it's a big left wing conspiracy. Not only are ya dumb, but you are crazy too.

[Nihil]

76. Glad you made the record clear ...

[Javaman]

63. Oh yes, the snarky reply...

1. cut down my heating bills
- but your a/c bills will be through the roof. that is of course you have a roof, a home or anyplace that is livable.

2. allow me to play more golf & outdoor sports during winter
-sure if you love to play in desert like conditions. And if there are any lawns left, they will be eatable.

3. driving will be easier with less snow & ice
-sorry, but more than likely cars or any type of single driver ego machine will be a thing of the past. Gas will be unaffordable by the average person.

4. my backyard vegetable patch will be more productive
No, hotter temp bugs will grow exponentially. Water will be at a premium.


5. give me less colds & flu during winter
-true, but you will now have to deal with malaria, yellow fever and a host of other tropical disease.

Weeeee! fun ain't it?

[Garam_Masala]

66. See you are wrong again...

I have NO A/C at my house! I was smart enough to build the house
so no sun comes in during summer but we get lots of sun during winter.
It is called strategically facing the glass windows in the correct direction.

Also here in western Washington state, we have very very mild summers.
Rarely going over 80 degrees. Another 6 degrees ain't big deal.

[Javaman]

70. wow, so I was wrong on one point due to lack of info.

I feel so paw'n. :eyes:

tool.

[Garam_Masala]

68. Did you see anywhere in my post that I deny possibility of global warming?

My only problem is with "man made" global warming.

Can you explain to me how the 4 mile thick glaciers in the
mid-west melted 10-12 thousand years ago? In other words
what caused the end of last ice age? Did the cave man burn
too many twigs? In case you have'nt heard, the great lakes
were formed by melting of those glaciers. Great lakes are
the largest body of fresh water on earth.

In case you are missing my point, that last global warming was truly
humongous. And it was NOT man made.

Is man contributing to additional global warming? Very likely.
However when I look at that humongous non-man made global warming
resulting in end of ice age, my instinct tells me nature is much
more powerful than man. Heck the astronauts in earth orbit can't
see a single man made object except a barely visible great wall of
China which shows up as a very thin, hardly visible scraggly line.

[Javaman]

71. Meh, live in ignorance. I don't care. Whether you believe it or not; is just semantics

yet, you still choose to pollute even when you humans contribute to it.

nothing worse than a self loathing "environmentalist"

>shakes head in wonder<

[NickB79]

86. The meltoff that occured at the end of the last Ice Age took thousands of years

Due to a variety of factors, such as changes in Earth's tilt and solar variation. That meltdown was obviously not man-made and took THOUSANDS of years to occur.

Today, we are seeing an even larger increase in temperature occurring over less than 100 years, at a time when we should actually be cooling: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32675876/ns/us_news-environment/

"WASHINGTON - The Arctic is warmer than it's been in 2,000 years, according to a new study, even though it should be cooling because of changes in the Earth's orbit that cause the region to get less direct sunlight.

Indeed, the Arctic had been cooling for nearly two millennia before reversing course in the last century and starting to warm as human activities added greenhouse gases to the atmosphere.

"If it hadn't been for the increase in human-produced greenhouse gases, summer temperatures in the Arctic should have cooled gradually over the last century," said Bette Otto-Bliesner, a National Center for Atmospheric Research scientist and co-author of the study on Arctic temperatures that was being published in Friday's edition of the journal Science."

[Garam_Masala]

91. Yes Arctic is warmer but Antartic is cooler

from what I have seen in news. Could be the same tilt in
earth's axis you mentioned?

It is well known fact that earth axis has changed over millions of years
and what is now desert was once lush tropics or bottom of sea.

Again my whole point is warming and cooling have occurred on massive scale
in the past WITHOUT HUMAN INTERVENTION.

It is a universally agreed that earth will again experience another ice age
since ice age has occurred cyclically every few dozen millenia.

[NickB79]

99. Antarctica is cooler? And you base this belief on what exactly?

Because these scientists seem to disagree: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99800029

"Steig and his colleagues have done just that for Antarctica, taking the sparse temperature records of the past 50 years and combining them with satellite records that cover a much greater area, but don't go back so far in time. Combining those records, they now report that a big chunk of Antarctica — the western part of the continent — has in fact been warming up, like the rest of the world.

Temperatures have risen by about 1 degree near the equator to more than 5 degrees near the North Pole.

"It's much less than Arctic warming but it pretty much is on par with global average warming," Steig says."

Up is the new down, apparently :eyes:

[DainBramaged]

53. Well I won't be here, guess I won't need sun tan lotion......

:rofl:

[Javaman]

64. Yeah, because this will all happen over night 100 years from now.

:eyes:

[MilesColtrane]

54. I guess it's good that I never had kids.

I won't have to die knowing that their lives are going to be hell.

Sorry about that, Earth.

I hope that whatever survives and evolves in the next half billion years takes better care of you than we did.

[Kolesar]

58. +1 ... eom

[TexasObserver]

80. Forty Years ago they warned us the world would have standing room only in 2000.

Forty years ago, I was certain we would blow the world up in a nuclear war some time before the year 2000, but we didn't.

If the world temperature rises by 7-9 degrees F, we're all screwed.

[Garam_Masala]

92. In Texas you are screwedm in Canada there will be celebrations

Canadians are sick and tired of the colder than hell winters.

[hunter]

82. There will be increasing numbers of climate refugees, than a deluge of them...

... many of them on a one way trip to extinction.

Some of the people reading this will be among those refugees. Even great wealth and political power evaporates under such conditions.

Every civilization in the history of man has failed, very often for environmental reasons. It's painfully obvious now that our civilization is no exception. How we handle the transition to a civilization that is sustainable under these new harsher conditions is extremely important. We can start building the foundations for a sustainable civilization now or we can leave our descendants unsheltered, uneducated, and starving amidst the useless ruins of our unsustainable industry.

[Imajika]

83. The US public doesn't care about this right now...

They just don't. People pay lip service to it, but only a small minority are willing to sacrifice much of anything to reduce CO2 emissions.

People are used to a certain standard and way of living, and are just not willing to change for future generations.

If anything, tackling Global Climate Change is LOSING support in the US, not gaining support.

I would say at this point it is best to just plan our lives around the assumption that absolutely nothing will be done.

If we are lucky, GCC is overstated and won't be as disasterous as feared. If it is a trainwreck on the horizon, at least we have planned our families lives around that outcome.

[slackmaster]

87. Global warming is always a tough sell a week before Thanksgiving

It will become popular again about May or June.

[Imajika]

90. Err, I think it's more about people..

...thinking about the present and not the future.

I think we human beings, at heart, are materialistic and pretty selfish.

Additionally, as long as the economy stinks and unemployment is as high as it is, I don't think people are willing to sacrifice anything more.

Another problem is that people want to combat GCC, but they want to do it at someone else's expense.

It's kinda like the "do you think Congress should be voted out" question. Ask that and a majority will often, including right now, want to "vote the bums" out, but they rarely if ever want to vote their own bum out because he/she brings home the pork to their district. Again, people want problems fixed, but not at their own expense.

[Garam_Masala]

94. You are right on the economy

any additional taxes on gasoline and heating oil will be the last straw
which breaks the economy's back.

[Garam_Masala]

93. Yes especially in Texas and Arizona

but not in Canada or far north US. People there can't wait for global warming.
Those heating bills are killing them.

[GliderGuider]

97. Very few people do, even globally.

- Our mental hyperbolic discount function keeps us from responding urgently to abstract threats.

- The human herding instinct seated in our limbic brains keeps us flocking with the rest of the sheep, going with the flow, following leaders instead of our own interests, secure in the inertia of the mob.

- Humans are not rational creatures, we are rationalizing creatures. We make most of our decisions at an unconscious level and dress them up with socially acceptable rationalizations only after the fact.

All these mental tendencies work against any reasoned, logical, farsighted response to global warming or any other significant global crisis. The things that must be done to prevent such a crisis will only be done as its consequence.

[dysfunctional press]

96. eat, drink, and be merry- for tomorrow we die.

since there's probably very little if ANYTHING that can be done to stop the runaway freight-train at this point- why should the congress-critters worry about doing anything that could hurt their re-selection chances?

[fascisthunter]

100. Humanity is in Deep Shit and our politicans are playing politics as usual