Gay marriage appears in danger of losing in Maine

[DuaneBidoux]

Source: AP

PORTLAND, Maine — Gay marriage appeared in danger in Maine in a closely watched referendum Tuesday that the nation's gay rights movement had hoped would yield a breakthrough victory at the ballot box.

Voters were asked to decide whether to repeal or affirm a state law that would allow gay couples to wed. The law was passed by the Legislature in May but never took effect because of a petition drive by conservatives.



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iGQ6L...

---

I would truly give up every Democratic seat tonight to see this be wrong.

[Hissyspit]

1. New York Times:

Answer Party Votes Pct.
Yes — 248,965 52.4%
No — 226,239 47.6

[harry_pothead]

2. I said to myself before the election that I would take a No on 1 in ME

in exchange for all house and gubernatorial races going to the GOP.

It was the one that I wanted to win. Instead we got NY23 and CA10.

[No Elephants]

19. Very generous of you. Are you a Maine gay?

[Frances]

3. How do the votes break out according to age?

I am 68 and I voted for gay marriage when it was on the ballot in CA, but I would guess that younger people are more tolerant than older people.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Wish I knew. :^(

[DuaneBidoux]

5. I think you are an exception, albeit a beautiful one.

The people who favor marriage equality in the above sixty group (approx) are about 20-25 %/

[Frances]

11. The beautiful exception was my husband

who was a macho Navy fighter pilot in the Korean War. We voted absentee so I saw his ballot; he went along with my arguments and also voted in favor of marriage equality. It wasn't an easy vote for him, but the idea of fairness and equality persuaded him.

[No Elephants]

20. Seems bizarre to me that aging hippies are that uptight and intolerant now.

Then again, I guess the hippies were in the minority or Nixon would not have beaten McGovern so resoundingly. Sigh.

[Eryemil]

7. If everyone over 50 died tomorrow same sex marriage would---

---become a reality in the United States within a year. I know it sounds harsh but it's the truth; not that I'm actually advocating death panels for the elderly or anything of the sort.

Social progress on such a massive scale rarely happens because minds are changed. Old people just die, taking their beliefs with them.

As people age they, statistically, become more liberal but is rarely enough. Each generation brings some sort of paradigm shift that the older generations just can't cope with.

[Justitia]

9. oh I don't know about that. I see cultural bias on the issue in TX - & it's young, unfortunately.

Yes, it gets worse w/the older generations, but it's a mistake to pigeonhole it to that demographic.

Also, I think people vote in secret to deny rights more than give them - of all ages and persuasion.

We have to get away from voting on Civil Rights - somehow....

[Eryemil]

10. Doesn't matter if there are young bigots as well, the statistics don't lie.

I see a lot of people here in DU quoting personal experience as if it is a valid way to measure opinion. It's not.
It's like the pope saying that people should not care as much about Catholic pedophiles because other religions have pedophiles as well. It doesn't make any sense.

[laughingliberal]

13. I'm over 50 and further left than a lot of DU members I see here

And, I do not consider myself 'elderly.'

[Eryemil]

14. Once again, statistics. You are a minority. Is that so difficult to understand?

[laughingliberal]

15. I don't think there is a big difference, statistically, in the attitudes of people 50-64

The studies I read suggest a big decline in support for gay rights in the age group over 65. Support for gay rights and gay marriage is over 50% among 50-64 year olds even in Texas.

[Eryemil]

17. Can you point me to these studies? Because it contradicts with everything I've read. n|t

[laughingliberal]

29. Los Angeles Times article from June

This one is about Los Angeles but I found similar results in a study done in Houston which studied the issue from 1982 to 2006. Oh, look, African Americans opposed gay marriage by a higher margin than people 50-64. Now, would you have posted a subject line which said 'if all African Americans died tomorrow...'


http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/20/local/me-gaymar ...

White voters were most emphatic in supporting same-sex marriage, with 68% approving of it and 27% opposing. African American voters were almost the opposite, with 54% opposing same-sex unions and 37% supporting them. Opposition to gay marriage by African Americans was widely seen as a major factor contributing to the passage of Proposition 8. <snip>

<snip>Among those ages 18-29, 66% said same-sex marriages should be recognized as valid, while 29% disagreed. The percentage of support declined slightly with each increment of age; those ages 50 to 64 supported it by a narrower 55%-39% margin.

The only voters to oppose same-sex marriage were those older than 64. In that group, 43% supported legalizing same-sex marriage while 48% were opposed.<snip>


Where I found big opposition to gay marriage according to advancing age was in studies which grouped people into a group of 45-60 year olds. Seems those just behind my generation skewed the results in the direction of opposing gay marriage. People 50-64 are those who came of age during the battles for Civil Rights for African Americans and the opposition to the Viet Nam war. We tend a little more liberal than those who came just behind us.

[laughingliberal]

28. posted wrong level-delete

[jonnyblitz]

16. my 70 year old dad who lives in Maine says they were

"scaring the old folks" up there so he seems to agree with you that they are the ones.

[No Elephants]

21. No, social change happens because laws are changed, not minds.

When the Supreme Court decided Brown v. Board of Education, no one's mind changed about "separate but equal." Doesn't matter. Legally mandated integration changed some minds. Some are still haters. But African Americans in all parts of the country are still better off than they were when Jim Crow was the law.

As the law, changes, hearts and minds follow and if they don't, so what (as law as the law is obeyed? Being loved by all is nice. but that will never happen for anyone, at least not for any minority.

Look what Obama has to deal with because he is half African, long after abolition of slavery and long after Jim Crow was declared illegal. But, he did get accepted to college and then to law school and he did get elected President of the United States, despite the fact that some hearts and minds would rather attend a Klan meeting than anything else.

What we really need is more idealistic liberal judges , like those on the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts (and the Warren SCOTUS) and more idealistic liberal legislators who put their principles before Party and elections. Not moderates, not cowards, not RWers and not death panels.

[tanyev]

22. John Dean spent a lot of time going over a study of that in his book

Conservatives Without Conscience. Fascinating read. I'd never really thought of it that way before, but it made sense.

[Le Taz Hot]

23. Just for that?

I'm livin' to be 120! (Little shit!) Well, we did Rights for Minorities and women, got us out of Viet Nam, started the environmental movement, removed Nixon from office, made sure abortion was safe and legal and stopped the draft. Now, you. **crickets**

On edit: Before you start throwing an ENTIRE FUCKING GENERATION under the bus, you might want to look at the roll RELIGION played in this bill's passage.

[onehandle]

12. Old haters turned out in big numbers. Obama kids stayed home with their Playstations.

A lethal combination.

[Justitia]

6. Who ARE these fuckers?????? -eom

[Hissyspit]

8. They're called bigots.

[No Elephants]

24. Yep, or the religious right, regardless of whether they are Dem or Pub.

Mainers were told from the pulpit that voting yes was their religious duty.

[No Elephants]

25. Yep, or the religious right, regardless of whether they are Dem or Pub.

Mainers were told from the pulpit that voting yes was their religious duty.

[Thothmes]

30. also called voters.

[moose65]

18. This wasn't a constitutional amendment, though

The legislature could pass the law again next year, right? Sooner or later people will get tired of this stupid campaign to stop gay marriage. I can't quite wrap my head around this, though. Do people get off on having a little power over other people? I can't see myself voting to take away someone else's rights, no matter how much I might disagree with the people affected. I mean, I can't stand self-righteous holy rollers, but I don't want to vote them out of existence!

[JerseygirlCT]

26. I simply cannot understand it, either

Bigotry raised to self-righteousness. Stoked by fear.

[No Elephants]

27. The Legislature is VERY unlikely to overturn the will of over 50% of hard core voters next year.

If the Maine Court is liberal, this needs to go to court. If not, Maine gays are screwn for a while, unless they move to a state that allows them to marry. (I recommend Massachusetts, but that's just me.)