Tapes show Kennedy was conflicted over Saigon coup

[David Zephyr]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Newly released White House tapes from the Vietnam War era portray President John F. Kennedy wrestling over the fate of South Vietnam's strongman in a situation that appears to mirror President Barack Obama's quandary today in dealing with Afghanistan's shaky government.

Obama is beset by questions about President Hamid Karzai's popularity, honesty and management of the war against Taliban, while Kennedy dealt in 1963 with President Ngo Dinh Diem and his inability to turn the tide against Viet Cong insurgents. At issue in both conflicts was a rising number of U.S. casualties in defending unpopular governments.

Forty-six years ago this week, Vietnamese generals, confident they had the support of their U.S. allies, overthrew Diem's government in Saigon. But Kennedy, conflicted by a State Department green light to the generals in their coup, questioned the move.

"I don't see any reason to go ahead unless we think we have a good chance of success," Kennedy told his advisers a few days after the department's cable was sent in August 1963 to Saigon.



Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_KENNEDY_VIETN...

[Zen Democrat]

1. This is really dated. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the footnoted truth is available.

In JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters, by James Douglass. What we now know about Saigon in the early 60's, and the murder of the Diem brothers, is that Kennedy wasn't conflicted at all. He was shocked and appalled at what the CIA and the military were doing in ignoring orders and directives to further and widen the war, and he was planning a complete withdrawal by 1965.

His enemies were in the miliary, the CIA, and in the person of one Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge, a treasonous villain. Lodge is the one person who could have saved the lives of the Diem brothers, yet he walked away.

It still sickens me that Kennedy chose Lodge for the Vietnam post in an effort to be bipartisan. Being bipartisan with snakes is not a winner.

[David Zephyr]

2. The tapes are new. The "news" isn't really.

The tapes help underscore what many of us have been saying for eons now.

And yes, Henry C. Lodge, that aristocratic piece of shit, took the fateful phone call from Diem who was rightfully worried that he was going to be murdered. Lodge, knowing that Diem was going to be hit, talked Diem down.

And then came the hit.

Allen Dulles together with Prescott Bush, both arch enemies of FDR, shoved as much shit into the fan of American history that the blowback is still here today.

[Judi Lynn]

6. David Zephyr, thanks for the thread. Very helpful. n/t

[tpfleming]

5. CIA Subversion of JFK Policy towards Diem

From Mark Lane's "Plausible Denial," pp. 269-270:

This is E. Howard Hunt's sworn testimony at a civil trial in Florida in 1985. This passage is Lane cross-examining Hunt:

"Lane: 'Were you ever involved in any kind of disinformation to embarass ?'

Hunt: 'No.'

The problem with Hunt's response, although it was presented without hesitation and with apparent sincerity and feeling, was that it was entirely untruthful.

I continued:

Lane: 'Did you ever have discussions with Mr. Colson about forging some cables in order to blame John F. Kennedy for the death of the leader of South Vietnam?'

Hunt paused. He looked at his attorneys for help. There was nothing they could do. The question was proper. Finally, Hunt spoke, slowly and quietly.

Hunt: 'Yes that is a matter of public record...'

Lane: 'Did you ever have discussions with Mr. Colson in which you agreed to falsify State Department cables to show that President John F. Kennedy's administration ordered the assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem?'

Hunt: 'I did.'

Lane: 'And, in fact, did you falsify and forge those cables?'

Hunt: 'Yes, I did.'

Lane: 'How did you do that?'

Hunt: '...I went ahead and provided cables that could logically have been concerning the death of President Diem.'

Lane: 'What do you mean provided cables?'

Hunt: 'Well, I fabricated them.'"

[BrklynLiberal]

3. There was a story on NPR this weekend...and there were tapes of LBJ

agonizing over Viet Nam as well.
It was not something he felt good about continuing...but he had "advisors" who convinced him otherwise. .

[Octafish]

4. 'Arrogant' CIA Disobeys Orders in Viet Nam

While Kennedy's enemies ever since have made it out that JFK ordered the coup and assassination of Diem, but The newly release tapes show that Kennedy wanted to avoid a coup and violence toward Diem, Nhu and the rest of the regime.

Background and some reading you won't find too many places else:

'Arrogant' CIA Disobeys Orders in Viet Nam

[No Elephants]

7. Great thread. Thanks K & R.