Catholic pastors directed to distribute anti-health reform materials at mass

[Ian David]

Source: The Colorado Independent

This past weekend the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops instructed pastors at parishes across the country to distribute material urging Catholics to oppose the health reform bills making their way through Congress for allowing public funding of abortions. Priests were to insert the Bishops Conference pdf leaflets and letters into parish news bulletins, distribute them at church doors or place them in pews. They were also directed to read a statement at mass to reinforce the message.

he Conference of bishops reportedly sent the orders out last Thursday, the same day Speaker Nancy Pelosi presented the mammoth 2,000-page House reform bill to lawmakers and the public.

The material explains that the Catholic Church supports reform that will “protect the life and dignity of all people from the moment of conception until natural death.”

The insert contains phone numbers and web addresses at which constituents can contact their Representatives.

CNSNews reports that the Catholic Church has a “major stake” in the legislation:

A little over 100 million Americans are treated through Catholic hospitals and health centers. There are 624 Catholic hospitals in America. Also, 11 of the nation’s 40 largest health care systems are Catholic, such as Ascension Health, Catholic Health Initatives{sic} and Trinity Health.





Read more: http://coloradoindependent.com/41285/catholic-pastors-d...

---

See also:

Priests being told to preach against Healthcare reform
by wade norris
Tue Nov 03, 2009 at 11:25:35 AM PST

The US Catholic Conference of Bishops is telling priests to oppose health care reform in upcoming weekly masses with both leaflets and in sermons - by saying that it will provide for abortions.
This is a lie and a shame for all Catholics and people who view providing basic health care to the 47 million without health care in the US a moral obligation.

As President Obama stated in his address to Congress, the health care bill does not provide money for abortions.

<snip>

WASHINGTON -- Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius pledged Sunday that President Barack Obama will support barring public funding for abortion in any health care overhaul legislation.

<snip>


at 1:45 in the video - the President says it will not fund abortions
http://www.youtube.com/v/foOioaQf-c8&hl=en&fs=1&

Oddly enough, the Catholic statement instructing Priests on how to discuss this issue in the Mass also criticizes the Bill for not providing health care for immigrants - a point Republicans have been very critical of, as when Joe Wilson shouted 'You Lie' to the President.

More:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/3/800079/-Priests... -


Hat-tip to: http://twitter.com/sarahlee310/statuses/5400513464

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Separation of church and state!! Eliminate all tax exemptions for religious groups!!!

[Ian David]

2. Anything Obama says that they don't like is "Socialist."

Anything Obama says that they DO like is "a lie."

I fucking hate Republicans.

[BrklynLiberal]

4. Sadly...some of these religious fanatics are playing right into their hands...

[Ian David]

5. As if the church would ever LIE to them!

[BrklynLiberal]

8. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.....

[Cleita]

3. Since churches of all denominations seem to own huge land parcels in

my area, it would bring in a needed tax boost not only to our local economy but our state economy as well. I believe that would apply nationwide too.

[BrklynLiberal]

6. It is AMAZING and horrifying how much real estate the churches own. They should all be taxed

at least..for any property they own on which there is not actually a church.

This hotel is one of the most expensive in NYC. It is on Madison Avenue and 52nd St...The land must be worth a fortune and I am sure they are not leasing it for $1.00 a year!!! Sothey are not paying taxes on the land itself..or on the money they make from this lease.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/hotelcheckin/po...

The New York Palace Hotel, across from St. Patrick's Cathedral, leases the land from the Catholic Church. And it was the same hotel, once called the Helmsley Palace. The 893-room hotel is part of the London-based Dorchester Collection.

[saigon68]

33. A Corrupt Criminal enterprise out of control

Someone must bring these dogs to heel.

First it was their rape and sodomy of young children by thug criminals posing with clerical collars

Now this crap.

[rpannier]

37. I don't think this violates their tax exemption status

If it does then every non-profit would be in trouble for taking a position on legislative issues

[FBaggins]

55. It doesn't

They can't work for/against a candidate, but they can advocate issues all day long.

That doesn't mean we have to like it... and it doesn't mean that others aren't free to advocate getting rid of some tax benefits.

[rpannier]

67. And that would be ok if they did it across the board

Would people be ok if we altered the tax exempt status of The Humane Society, Greenpeace, The United Negro College Fund, The ACLU, People for the American Way, Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, The Snow Leopard Trust, The Red Cross etc?

[Joe Bacon]

41. If they want to play, Make 'em pay.

Tax the churches. Take these crooks off of welfare and make them pay.

[melm00se]

47. this one of those

"be careful of what you wish for"

If Churches and other religious institutions are taxes, then they can fully engage in the political arena.

Catholics number 67 million
Baptists number 47 million

if a significant percentage follow the "directions" of their congregational leaders that could spell significant trouble for any number of progressive causes that are antithetical to their core beliefs (abortion rights comes to mind)

[AmandaRuth]

48. you are so right

i wish people that knee jerk call for taxing the churches would at least consider the point you are making. Much better to enforce the laws on the books, imho.

[No Elephants]

51. To which laws on the books are you referrring ?

[No Elephants]

50. Um, they already do fully participate. AFIK, the only thing they cannot do

safely is urge parishoners--from the pulpit-- to vote for a particular candidate by name. That is rarely necessary bc all they have to do is tell them not to vote for those who support abortion. In all but a few cases, that will knock out anyone on the left.


And what religious issue justifies urging against health care reform. Given the literal words of the Bible, one can point to verses inveighing against homosexuality. One can also find some colorable justification for the anti-abortion stance. But, I don't see how they could get anymore purely political than urging opposition to health care reform.

Besides, I cannot see the IRS taking away the exemption of the Catholic Church or all Baptists under any circumstances. The IRS has gone after some individual churches and also after the newer religions, like Scientology. Never against an entire established denomination.

I think taxing them would cause a lot more harm to them and a lot more good to us than not taxing them.

[mmonk]

76. They do fully engage.

[OnyxCollie]

7. Tax 'em.

[BrklynLiberal]

9. 100% agree!!!!!

[rpannier]

40. For what exactly

Taking a position on a piece of legislation does not violate their tax exempt status

Almost all non-profit organizations take public positions on legislation

[No Elephants]

54. The poster seems to be proposing that the tax exemption for all churches be eliminated.

I agree with that. Among other things, the federal government ought not be in the business of subsidizing churches or religious organizations. Heck, if they're Republican anyway, they loves them some free market principles. So, let them thrive or fail without help from state and local government.

[closeupready]

73. Oh, yes it does. Tax em.

n/t

[rpannier]

81. Actually it doesn't

Religious and non-religious non-profits have been taking stands on the environment, civil rights and a litany of other pieces of legislation for over a century.
Much of the abolitionist cause got its push from pastors and churches that organized against slavery.
Much of the Civil Rights movement also got its biggest push from pastors and churches around the country that were opposed to the discrimination against Blacks and other minorities throughout the country.
I regularly get action alerts from the Snow Leopard Trust, Greenpeace, The Humane Society of America regarding pieces of legislation that effect causes they are involved in.

Because you don't like the message (or the organization), does not mean that what they're doing is a violation of their tax exempt status.
If you truly believe it does, then you should read the tax codes or find a tax attorney to explain it to you.
Because it doesn't.

[fl_dem]

65. I agree...................if the church wants in the state,

then by all means let it be a two way door. Let the state in the church and tax em on all their tangible and intangible properties, estates, tithes, etc.... you can bet your ass as soon as they got the first tax bill, they will be screaming Separation of Church and State.

Oh and a side note, they sure do love their children don’t they:

Italy 97 % catholic population: “Alarmed by the rising number of abandoned newborn babies, Italy is finding high-tech ways for mothers to safely leave their infants without being seen. The idea of a safe receptacle for an unwanted infant is not new. In 1198, Pope Innocent III was dismayed by the number of newborns caught in the nets of fishermen on the Tiber River. He ordered the first Medieval "foundling wheel" — a rotating platform located in the wall of a church that allowed women to anonymously leave their newborns. Today's version, located at a hospital in one of Rome's poorest districts, resembles a large ATM.”

Mexico 95% catholic population: Mexico City has 1,900,000 underprivileged and street children. 240,000 of these are abandoned children. This is just one large city.

just saying.....

[jeremyfive]

10. Thank God for Martin Luther

Luther saved many of us from such corruption.

I agree with poster above. Eliminate tax advantages to churches that have abandoned traditional outreach to poor and troubled, in favor of overt political activity.

[No Elephants]

52. No, we cannot discriminate. Tax them all.

[TexasObserver]

11. Recommend

[pleah]

12. Tax their asses now!

I am so fed up with those idiots.

[damntexdem]

16. Even better, tax their assets.

That will burn their asses.

[pleah]

34. :D Exactly!

[No Elephants]

53. LOL!

[Alcibiades]

13. The leaflet takes aim at "elective" abortions

and yet features a picture of a woman with a full-term belly.

“Remove Abortion Funding and Mandates from Needed Health Care Reform!”

If health care reform is needed, why have they not used the power of the pulpit to press for it, and the only thing they have to say about it is that it should be voted down because somebody might get an abortion?

BECAUSE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS ABOUT PROMOTING THE REPUBLICAN AGENDA, NOT SAVING LIVES

[FiveGoodMen]

14. It's a war, folks.

These guys are the enemy.

[xc8mip]

war with Enemies of scraped fetus?

what a bunch of clockwork comments .It appears church is against public funding of abortions , not because of hatred like seen in posts here but because of belief in sanctity of human life .

[damntexdem]

17. It has nothing to do with the sanctity of human life.

If it did, they would worry about the 40k a year who die in the US from lack of coverage. This is simply a belief in the sanctity of the right wing, of the GOP, and of corporations. It fits with their true devotion to their saints: Santa Bureaucracia and Santo Testosterone.

[xc8mip]

19. Belief in sanctity of human life

Church runs over 20 thousands orphanages and children homes worldwide .They actually stand behind their convictions unlike you -tuned by garbage msm outlet .

[Lance_Boyle]

20. how many of those unwanted kids come from CATHOLICS forbidden to use contraception?

Catholic church can't take credit for "helping alleviate" a problem it DIRECTLY CAUSES.

[JoeyT]

26. Most of us don't like being lectured.

Especially on the sanctity of life by an organization that's killed more people than smallpox.
They don't build irony meters that strong.

Plus they're kinda violating what they agreed to when they got their tax exemption. So will "Render unto Caesar" kick in when someone suggests revoking it?

[Iowa]

45. Yep...

...and in those orphanages they have committed horrible abuses on many of the kids in their care. Their orphanages cannot be held up as a demonstration of their high "convictions" (to use your word). Many of their orphanages have been snake-pits of sexual and emotional abuse (and subsequent cover-ups).

Nice try.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

18. Sanctity of human life? A fetus, sure.

A mother whose fetus is literally killing her? Not so much with the sanctity. She can die, thank-you-very-much.

[Ignis]

25. Sorry, God only loves humans while they're still in the womb.

At least, their God does.

Screw the millions of post-fetus Americans whose lives (and livelihoods) would be saved by health-care reform.

[No Elephants]

57. I'd like all churches to be taxed. To be perfectly fair, however, I believe

the Catholic Church's pro-life stance extends to opposing capital punishment as well as to opposing abortion.

As evidenced by Dummya, among others, as a general rule, evangelicals have a problem with abortion, destruction of fetuses that have been abortion, use of stem cells from fetuses that have been aborted, but no problem with capital punishment.

[Ignis]

61. That's a fair point, No Elephants.

I certainly give some members of the Catholic Church credit for the work they've done in Latin America (and other areas) to stand up to dictators and mass murderers (e.g., Archbishop Romero).

But far too often, the upper echelon of the CC stands firmly on the wrong side of many issues--despite the hard work on the ground by priests, nuns, and lay members of the church to correct those societal ills (e.g., Sister Virgine Lawinger). And in a strict hierarchy, those good actions by the ground troops are easily overshadowed by the actions of those who run the show.

It's all about "tone at the top," if you know what I mean.

Thanks for your civil tone in correcting my overarching post. Much appreciated.

[KakistocracyHater]

82. yes, it's glaringly obvious this is NOT about 'sanctity' of life

so why do they such a fixation on birth control? I don't find that much mentioned, a few Old Testament stories but birthing children, as many as possible (Quiverfull)-HOW is this "Christian"? What Christian, godly power is attained? They're like a horse with blinders on, & hen they say "abortion" that translates to ALL contra-ceptives. Damn that w, it's giving me trouble again.

[FiveGoodMen]

23. War with the enemies of America -- which is EXPLICITLY NOT a Christian nation

Churches should either pay taxes or sit the motherfucking hell down and shut the motherfucking hell up about politics.

And either way they shouldn't pretend to know the mind of their pretent gods.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[damntexdem]

15. The immorality of the hierarchy knows no bounds.

When did the Catholic Church become a subsidiary of CIGNA?

[4_TN_TITANS]

22. My guess is that all these Church owned

hospitals, etc., might take a financial hit from government involvement.

[mstinamotorcity]

21. When all else fails

The r/w will call on their religious base to come and bring up the rear. They put the fear that someone is going to start messing over their religious beliefs. Oh go ahead have a baby in this world where they don't want to pay for you to be born, oh go ahead and don't kill the unborn fetus lets bring it into this world where they will take your jobs and your homes,oh please don't kill your baby, bring it into this world where they start wars over any piece of shit reason that they feel like. If you ridiculous religious nuts don't believe in abortion then don't have one. But its not your choice to choose for anyone else.

[2Design]

24. wow they want dead people AND I thought they were anti abortion to get a lot of little catholics n/t

[BlueIdaho]

27. Just so long as the Pope is happy - I guess that makes it ok... nt.

[defendandprotect]

28. The Founders Greatest fear . . . "god" politics . . .

We all know you can argue with everyone and everything else . . .

but not something "god"-ordained!!!

[Odin2005]

29. Tax their asses back to Kingdom Come!

[L. Coyote]

30. Most Catholics support the right to choose and the use of birth control!

Tax 'em anyway if they play politics.

[No Elephants]

56. You're conflating Catholics with the Catholic Church. It is the Church that gets the tax

exemption, not the parishoners. And it is the Church that posters here would like to see taxed, not the parishoners.

The Church most definitely does not support the right to choose or the use of birth cocntrol, only SOME of its parishoners do.

In my opinion, once abortion gets squared away the way the Church would like--and the Roberts is on the way to that already--the Church will attack birth control and birth contol education next. They'd like us to go back to pre-Griswold v. Connecticut days.

If you are not aware, under the Connecticut law that the SCOTUS overturned in that case, a doctor could have been arrested for even educating a married couple about avoidiing preganancy.

[Cass]

31. So I guess the 45,000 who die every year due to lack of health care don't matter to them?

This is not a pro-life position. They are hypocrites. And liars, too, since the Hatch Act forbids public funding of abortions.

Can't they lose their tax exempt status for advocating politics like this?

[flaminbats]

49. eating from the tree of knowledge?

we are only lab rats of God, but we aren't supposed to know that!

ultimately humans did not die from eating the fruits of knowledge, but we learned of our mortality.

[Zhade]

60. Man, if the christian god actually existed, I'd tell hm to go fuck himself.

What a mad tyrant that mythical figure represents!

[flaminbats]

64. yikes!!

maybe that's where Eve came from.

[Zhade]

69. Hey, blasphemy is a victimless crime.

: )

[quiller4]

32. Not happening in my parish. The diocese is taking a more

nuanced stance. They are encouraging support of reform but asking support for anti-abortion amendments offered during debate. That message will be in the diocesan paper but it will not be in my parish bulletin nor will my pastor speak to it. I know because I worked in the parish office this morning. Our parish council passed a motion of support for health care reform including a strong public option that was printed in the bulletin two weeks ago.

[Ian David]

46. That's pretty good. n/t

[Release The Hounds]

63. Same here. This anti-HCR is new to me.

[Bragi]

35. The comment above is right: These guys ARE the enemy

[progressivebydesign]

36. Saw someone's Facebook status, that they were going to see what Christians should think about reform

I mean.. they actually said that they had to read up to see what Christians should think about health care reform. Apparently, going to church every Sunday disables your powers of independent thought.

The IRS needs to get tough with these people... I'm tired of allowing churches to enrich themselves on MY dime.

[Blue_Tires]

38. the church doesn't want any reform cutting in on their 'action'

[defendandprotect]

39. Let's start taxing religion . . .

everything but their church building and the land it stands on --
and their soup kitchens!!

[No Elephants]

58. I would not exempt the church and the land on which it stands. That is the place

they are using to urge parishoners to vote the Republican agenda. Their soup kitchens, if located elsewhere, would be exempt, just as any other property used to feed the poor would be exempt.

You can't tax religion, only the assets of churches and religious organizations.

[iamthebandfanman]

42. yeah! let them all die! christianity rock! n/t

[eppur_se_muova]

43. Tax exempt? Not anymore.

(Not really. Only in a just world.)

[dysfunctional press]

44. they should be losing their tax-exempt status- but it won't happen.

rules are for serfs.

[joeglow3]

71. What rules did they break?

501(c)(3) only prevents them from supporting or opposing a candidate. They, specifically, can petition for or against any issue they want.

[No Elephants]

59. I guess the letters of Paul are the only ones the Church takes to heart.

The Pauline letters mention homosexuality. Jesus does not. Paul never met Jesus. Yet, the Church believes that what Paul wrote o some church or another 2000 years ago binds all humans for all time.

As stated, Paul never met Jesus. John was the disciple Jesus loved most.

From a letter written by John:

1The elder unto the well beloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.

2Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

3For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.

4I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

5Beloved, thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers;

6Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well:

7Because that for his name's sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles.

8We therefore ought to receive such, that we might be fellowhelpers to the truth.

III John (KJV)

[cap]

62. It's time to stop giving federal money to Catholic Health Care clinics and hospitals

I think Obama should force the issue with the Catholic hierarchy selectively -- Fund the Catholic Left like mad; starve the Catholic Right. (I am Catholic)

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cap]

80. I don't appreciate the name calling

I've alerted the mods.

[Vidar]

66. Our leadership is too cowardly to even corral Lieberman. They won't take on

the Catholic Church.

[depakid]

68. You knew it had to be about the one track obsession with abortion

and family planning.

[kaehele]

70. and the church pays no taxes. n/t

[Divine Discontent]

72. whereas they do very nice things (gave homeless a bus ticket to a new home far away), the Catholic

hierarchy sure knows how to be used as pawns of the conservatives!

[mmonk]

74. I'll get my wife to get one of the leaflets if it is done at our parish.

Does that leaflet qualify as a political activity?

[ShortnFiery]

75. I wish the Priests would AGAIN get back to focusing on helping the Poor and Disenfranchised instead

of intimidating Teenagers and the Gay Community. Then I'd gladly return to Mass. I miss not being part of a Catholic Community but the Clergy and many Parishioners have gone IMO, both mean-spirited and dogmatic. In essence, they've embraced the vengeful God of the Old Testament and have forgotten about Jesus and his beloved "Sermon on the Mount."

[Dramarama]

78. Vatican disagrees with these guys

eom

[silver10]

83. With the flood of so many leaving the Catholic Church...

It must now count on health care insurance executive money? They're some of the only ones who could now afford to contribute to support it - after all, there's the law suits and the settlements and the insurance policy bills...plus they will need to pay their way into heaven ; )

Thank God I am not longer Catholic (or religious for that matter)

[Kievan Rus]

84. Time to tax the churches