Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Feingold: No Public Option A "Strong Reason" Not To Support Reform

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:14 PM
Original message
Feingold: No Public Option A "Strong Reason" Not To Support Reform
Edited on Sun Oct-25-09 12:31 PM by kpete
Source: Huffington Post

The major point of contention between the White House and congressional Democrats is now whether a public option for insurance coverage has the 60 votes needed for passage in the Senate. In reporting our piece on the state of play in the health care reform debate, Ryan Grim and I heard the same refrain from a number of sources: Majority Leader Harry Reid's office thinks it can get the support needed to pass a public option with an opt-out provision for states. The White House thinks that Reid's whip count is too optimistic.

Part of the administration's reasoning is that if you don't have Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) on board, you end up losing the votes of a handful of conservative Democrats. So White House officials are pushing an alternative proposal that would have the public plan "triggered" in by economic conditions.

But the equation is more complicated than that. Increasingly, there are senators on the liberal side of the spectrum who say they won't pass a plan that includes the trigger provision.

"To me that would be a very serious gap and it would be a very strong reason not to support it," Sen. Russ Feingold told CBS' "Face the Nation" on Sunday. "We need a public option. We need something that would cause some control over the abuses that have occurred in the insurance industry."




Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/25/feingold-no-pu...



http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/10/25/feingold-no-publ... /

SCHIEFFER: But could you yourself vote for health care reform that did not include the public option if it came to that?

FEINGOLD: To me that would be a very serious gap and it would be a very strong reason not to support it. We need a public option. We need something that would cause some control over the abuses that have occurred in the insurance industry.

SCHIEFFER: Would we be better off with anything if it did not include a public option?

FEINGOLD: I, at this point I think we need to do something fundamental. When people start talking about having a trigger, that we might have a public option in two or three years, to me, thats just an invitation to the insurance industry to manipulate the situation for a couple of years just so they can avoid the trigger, and so they can convince members of Congress to delay it again. We need to do something now. These costs are overwhelming people. The current system is actually a system of rationing through the insurance industry. We need to take action now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. He also reminded the obvious "PO" is already a compromise, and not a left wing idea\nt
Edited on Sun Oct-25-09 12:17 PM by Mass
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. so glad you're the 1st reply with that comment! yes, this PO is NOT the left wing's plan at all
this thing is a 'bipartisan mess' imo, and what small percentage of people it does effect would be ruined by a put off date that could be manipulated in the future by the lobbyists.

It should be available to anyone who wants to get involved in the public option - but the lobbyists have made sure that's not the case - and worse, it's still an insurance premium!

Oh, what'd I'd give for Universal Single Payer Health Care - it's a shame our massive Democratically controlled Congress doesn't care what we think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
65. hmmm...
And, your point is???

More than seven months have passed since Business Roundtable, an association of CEOs from health care companies that serve more than 35 million Americans, released its first annual Business Roundtable Health Care Value Comparability Study. This study shows that the excessive costs and poor performance of the US health care system have left our nation at a significant disadvantage in the global marketplace.

"On a weighted scale, the results show that U.S. workers and employers receive 23 percent less value from our health care system than the average of five leading economic competitors - Canada, Japan, Germany, the United Kingdom and France (the "G-5 group") - and 46 percent less value than the average of emerging competitors Brazil, India and China (the "BIC group").



In view of this information--from members of the very community that is spending in excess of half a million dollars a day to derail health insurance reform--how does anyone doubt that the persistent and pernicious effort to derail reform is indeed motivated by the unfettered hubris of a handful of corporatists bent on securing their own wealth and power?!?

How short-sighted are these greedy corporatists?!? Not only are we well behind most other countries in terms of COSTS of health care, we are well behind the eight ball with regards to our economic competitiveness in the global marketplace.

So, who's un-American here? Those of us fighting for universal health care, or the obstructionists bent on retaining their wealth and power?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
68. yes, the po is already a compromise once Single payer was kicked under the table.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. You go, Russ.
This guy is the bee's knees.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. As is Jay Rockefeller
which is a great surprise to me!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Agree. The Rock has done right by us on this one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. It was good to take away his Intelligence Committee chairmanship.
He wasn't cut out for that. Now he's doing better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. He is. I'm not hogwild about him exactly, but of late he's been right in
the thick of it on our side.

I'll give credit where it's due and buy the man a beer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Public Option
Really, what good is a health care reform bill without the public option. With the public option out, the insurance companies will get our money and continue to raise premiums and to deny coverage to anyone they thing will cost the company an extra bit of money. And I think it should be made clear, to all the democratic organizations who send us emails and ask us to sign a petition, that all support, monetary and otherwise, to the senators that do not support the public option will be cut off completely. I think that the organizations should take a sampling of our protests about not having a public option and send it to those people who won't vote for it. They think we are just blowing off the way we usually do...but this health care reform with the public option is too serious a subject to "take a substitute"..

We should start our own campaign and right here, right now, target the "Dirty Dogs" and tell them what we think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. Careful. You'll face the wrath of an angry Senator Snowe. nt
Edited on Sun Oct-25-09 01:01 PM by onehandle
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. That's President Snowe
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. President, nuthin'. That's Exalted Empress Snowe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
46. Galactic MegaCzarina Snowe
n/t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #46
60. Here's a recent photograph of her...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. Russ is right more often than not - and puts his constituents before anything else
Edited on Sun Oct-25-09 12:45 PM by stray cat
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. it's a 2-way street and I hope the Party trumps individual weakness *ie yellowdogs
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I think you mean bluedogs


Yellowdog Dems are people who vote for any Democrat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. Russ is right. No Public Option: not worth passing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
discocrisco01 Donating Member (524 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. Who Cares About Olympia Snowe
Olympia Snowe's vote means nothing. What is the obession with bipartianship. Personally, I think bipartisanship on this is waste of a time because of such vast differences between both groups.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Correctomundo, discocrisco01!! I wrote the White House last night asking them who the
Edited on Sun Oct-25-09 01:58 PM by bertman
imbecile was who came up with the we-must-have-one-Republican-vote idea. This is just another cover excuse for screwing up a good opportunity to pass legislation DESPITE the Republican opposition.

I want someone to explain to me how having one Republican vote for this is going to convince any of these hardcore right-wingers that this is a bi-partisan bill. That is not going to happen. The Republican party in general considers Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins to be quasi-Democrats already because they are willing to CONSIDER something other than the Right-Wing party line every now and then. Sheesh!


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. When did the repukes ever worry about Dem votes when they were
ramrodding all manner of crappy legislation designed to screw ordinary people through Congress? It's sickening how Democrats genuflect before a meaningless repuke who isn't going to support anything other than a watered-down POS bill anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. On some talking head show this morning, some pundit said Snowe provides cover
for the Purple Snakes. Meaning, if a Republican votes for something, even one Republican, it helps the Purple Snakes with their constituents. Then again, that may be bs because polls say that a majority of the people in the US want this.

:shrug:

Another pundit said they can't get to sixty without her. I have no idea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Snowe provides cover for Obama's pro-PhRMA ass!
Obama is just another tool of the corporatists that own this country. This is why he put single payer off the table right off the bat!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. This is been the first I've personally seen WHY they're
courting Snowe so avidly -- that they feel the conservative Dems will follow her lead. At least now I have an inkling of what they are thinking. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why they cared so much how she voted and what she said! And ONE republican vote hardly screamed 'bipartisanship'. Now I understand their approach, but I still think it sucks.

NO Dems should be taking their lead from a Republican, for the love of God! :grr:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. They are Dems in name alone.
They are about as Democratic as Dick Cheney in reality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
45. "...that they feel the conservative Dems will follow her lead."
So what does that say about Democratic Party leadership?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
61. I don't give a shit if NO Repuke votes for a strong public option ...
... so as far as I am concerned, Olympia Snowe can go fuck herself and all of the concern about kissing her butt is offensive as all hell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. How ironic -- I posted the first article, in its original form, last night, and it was unrec'd
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

But both versions of this article state the White House favors the trigger plan and THIS post has 30 rec's, as this posting. Despite the slamming and unrec's I got for posting an article simply because it cited unnamed sources for that assertion, Russ Feingold apparently believes it's a real possibility and has managed to stir up some outrage. Thank you, Senator Feingold.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PuppyBismark Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. Huffington Post got it right: LEADERLESS!
Our new president, the one many of us worked very hard to elect, has let us down. His lack of leadership for health care is appalling! His lack of support for the ideas he campaigned is beyond belief!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. Yep... you nailed it. I agree completely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maglatinavi Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
48. Puppy
Ditto! :mad: :mad: :mad: :kick: :kick: :kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DMNinFL Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. No Public Option........
No reform. End of story.

Lots of people say we have to get something passed. I say NO WE DON'T! If the final bill does not have a strong, robust, public option (no opt-out, no trigger) then I say walk away from reform and get the public relation machine in high gear for 2010 and 2012.

People say:

"Oh NO!!!! If nothing gets passed Obama will be politically crippled."

So what. I have seen very little leadership from this man on healthcare. I sure don't see "change I can believe in". I don't see the reasons I sweated to get him elected. I don't see why I sent his campaign money. I don't see why I talked with all my neighbors.

"But he wasn't Bush. He wasn't Palin." So what.

Look. this man is going to lose a LOT of people in the base who worked for him and financially supported him. As far as I can see he deserves to lose them.

So, no robust public option, no bill. Walk away from it and work for Medicare for Everyone down the road.

Can you tell, I am pretty disgusted!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I'm On Your Side... Disgusted With The Merry-Go-Round O What, How &
When something will happen. I'm tired of "guessing" as to WHAT EXACTLY they are trying to accomplish!

I say No PO, then start ALL over! If they pass SOMETHING just to say they PASSED SOMETHING, it won't work for me, and probably won't work effectively in the end!



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Welcome to DU. I'm with you on this.
It would be better to pass nothing than to pass a bad bill.

Looks like we're going to get a bad bill.

:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. Well said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
27. That's My Senator!
And I am so proud of him! :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
28. My weekly phone calls have been heard!!! Thank you Russ!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
30. I agree. Don't give them the opportunity to lie to us and say they achieved reform when they didn't.
Completely agree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
32. We must have a strong Public Option or else any bill is complete bullshit!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thread-bear Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
37. Feingold for President!
Russ is one of my favorite Senators. We need a strong leader as President. I've been really disappointed in McCaskill and Skelton.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
38. WTF? 60?
Edited on Sun Oct-25-09 08:35 PM by blackspade
***The major point of contention between the White House and congressional Democrats is now whether a public option for insurance coverage has the 60 votes needed for passage in the Senate.

Part of the administration's reasoning is that if you don't have Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) on board, you end up losing the votes of a handful of conservative Democrats. So White House officials are pushing an alternative proposal that would have the public plan "triggered" in by economic conditions.***


Since when does a senate vote hinge on 60? If there are not 60 votes for cloture then there needs to be a huge shake-up in the leadership of the Democrats in the Senate, and some folks need to lose their seniority on key committees. Just ridiculous.

And since when do the blue dogs follow Snowe? I think that the WH has some serious leadership issues that they HAVE to get ironed out before this whole healthcare reform initiative implodes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #38
51. Let them filibuster.
Goodbye to any hopes in 2010.

The repeat of this "60 votes needed" horseshit is, well, horseshit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
39. This is just the screen the admin and DLC want.
They want to blame the failure of HCR on the real Democrats, the liberals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
40. Single payer! Single payer! Single payer!
Single payer! Single payer! Single payer!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Single payer! Single payer! Single payer!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Single payer! Single payer! Single payer!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Single payer! Single payer! Single payer!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Single payer! Single payer! Single payer!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Single payer! Single payer! Single payer!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Single payer! Single payer! Single payer!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Single payer! Single payer! Single payer!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Single payer! Single payer! Single payer!
:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. That's the plan that makes sense. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. thank you, nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
42. I'm going to stab the next moron that states "60 votes needed for passage in the Senate"
Are we a nation of

FUCKING MORONS???



Since Dick Cheney cast the 51st vote needed to pass Bush's critical (and nation destroying) tax cuts, how any motherfucking moron in this country would state that "60" votes are "needed" is beyond me. People who repeat this lie should be shot IMO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #42
49. Right on, HughMoran!
We do not need 60 votes! Legislation did not need 60 votes before. Let the Republicans filibuster until the the American people see them for the obstructionists they are. 51 votes will give us the "Uncompromised Robust Public (next thing to single payer) Option!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. I would actually prefer that the Dems FORCE the obstructionist Republicans fools to filibuster
I want the American people to see their anti-health stance in it's true glory.

Republicans for death!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. Yup. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #42
54. I'll see your chagrin and raise you one. Someone who (apparently) makes
Edited on Mon Oct-26-09 08:52 AM by No Elephants
her living as a Republican pundit actually said on one of the talking heads shows yesterday that the Constitution requires 60 votes to pass health care reform. That's almost as bad as Palin's saying, during her campaign for VP, that the Constitution says that marriage is between a man and a woman. (I guess shredding the Constitution is easier for Republicans than reading it.)

However, "60 votes for passage" is not totally untrue. Before you can pass something, you have to end a fillibuster and current Senate rules do require 60 votes for that. So, as a practical manner, under current Senate rules, 60 votes are required for passage of health care reform, as a practical matter.

I agree that being specific and clear is far preferable, though. Otherwise you can overlook things like the possiblity of changing the Senate rule, which would require only 50 votes (aka "nuclear option"). As a practical matter, I don't see that happening, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whoopingcrone Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #54
58. ENDING a filibuster
While a filibuster has to end before the next item on the agenda can be called,
it's not necessary to end it by voting.
A "filibuster" is simply a procedure whereby one group starts talking
and keeps on until the other side gets tired of waiting for them to shut up.
One way to stop the wait is to force the speakers to shut up by voting.
Another is to wait it out until they dry up of their own accord.
I say "LET THEM YAP" and show all the people what slimes they are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #58
69. Hear! Hear!
I say let them talk until they need health care to revive the hateful old white men.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #54
70. You don't have to vote for the bill to prevent a filibuster
So, that's a red herring IMO. Any Dem who would prevent a vote should be tarred and feathered in public IMO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Styxiv Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-25-09 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
44. HUH?
What good is the opt out? who does that benefit? So being in a red state I'm just screwed right? I mean it would end up being all Democratic run states will keep it and all the Republican run states will opt out SO we're still where a huge percentage of our people that won't have coverage. Might as well not have it or I guess if your a Republican in democratic state ya move to a red state and visa versa.

you can't have states picking and choosing which laws they like and which they don't. Heck might as well make all laws that way. I mean if you don't like the federal speed limit then states should have an opt out right? I mean some states could drive 65 others 95 and some heck even 55. Might as well get rid of the federal government and just let each state govern themselves right. Then if you travel much for business or pleasure you'll just have to learn each stares laws. Heck since I'm being crazy anyway why not just get rid of the title UNITED states of America and we can have 50 induvidual little counries. Heck Texas already thinks they don't need to USA right now anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whoopingcrone Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #44
59. good point, poor analogy...
In my state, Connecticut, the speed limit is 65.
Cross the border into to New York, it's 55.
And you'd better believe the cops are waiting! :nopity:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peaches2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. You're not kidding about that!
I just got caught going 71 from VT (65) into NY (55). NY state trooper was a sweet guy, however, and gave me a non-moving violation parking tkt instead of a moving violation of 16 mph over the speed limit. But....the parking fine was $150!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
47. With no Public Option I'd put the quotes around "reform"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
50. K & R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
53. knr!~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
55. Delay/ Opt-Out/ Trigger Provisions= Bull Shit
Russ Feingold Tell's the Truth of the Matter.

And this debate like few others will show us exactly
how far removed our government is from its people

K & R :)

:grr: :nuke: :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oerdin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
56. Weak sauce!
A trigger means there will not be any public option because the insurance companies get to decide if the trigger conditions are met or not plus in 2012 the Dems will probably have even fewer seats (historically the party which controls the Presidency loses seats in the bi year)so even if the trigger conditions are met the Republicans can still block medicare for all down the road. I will not support any reform bill which does not have a strong medicare like public option and I won't help (with my money or my time) ANY Democrat who didn't do EVERYTHING to make the public option happen.

Right now Obama is looking very weak and very much like a sell out. He hasn't said a god damned word to support the public option in months. He just isn't fighting at all and that is weak sauce. If there is no public option then I will not vote for Obama in 2012 and instead will protest by voting 3rd party. The Democrats control everything so now is the time to put up or shut up. Either they deliver on real reform for America (and anything which doesn't have a medicare like public option IS NOT REAL REFORM)or they lose my support and can find someone else to contribute to their campaign and make get out the vote phone calls. I'm tired of being lied to and I want to see real reform.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #56
64. Don't Know What 2012 Will Look Like... But If OBAMA Can't Lead Any Better
than this, I for one WILL NOT spend my time in the HOT Florida sun, sweating and beating the pavements down here to get him re-elected!

I was almost going to sit out the 2008 election because I was so ambivalent, but when Palin came on scene I KNEW we couldn't have THAT thing!

And I'm very, very tired of trying to figure out just what Obama REALLY wants and if it's as so many here say, he's playing a "fine" chess game, then it's time for CHECK MATE! I've had enough of this gaming and think it should NEVER have come down to a GAME in the first place!

Do I WISH he succeeds, YES I do... but at the rate he's going... he WILL BE LOSING so many of us who have been active and in the trenches for "oh, so many years!" I realize time changes things, but Democrats HAVE the WH, The Senate AND The House... WTF are they doing for us??

REALLY, WHAT?? And please, don't start with a long list of particulars that have gone down already... THIS is HCF that was promised and it's a BIG, BIG issue! It's putting on the gloves, PUNCHING AND FIGHTING TIME!! I'm tired of the "pretty speeches" that too many of us find inconclusive! Alluding to something, isn't ACTION... it's JUST WORDS!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BluinTX Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
62. WTF?!
If the White House is hell bent on passing HCR, regardless of its efficacy, then this strategy is about as stupid as it can get. There is no chance that the House will pass a POS bill that doesn't include some form of robust public option -- with or without an opt out. And it seems just as unlikely that the liberal Dems in the Senate will sign on as well. What the White House is asking for will garner one Republican vote at the expense of a slew of votes from liberal Democrats.

Stupid, stupid, stupid!
:mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
66. I watched both Senators McCain and Feingold on Face the Nation yesterday
and I applaud Sen. Feingold for taking a brave stance on reform. No public option strips the word reform of its very definition.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. funny how the debate has changed on DU
although most of the posters here have probably thought this from the beginning, the "shut up or leave the party" fuckheads (here on DU) were out policing the forums at the very beginning calling everyone who didn't agree with them a blue dog or DINO.

Russ Feingold, Hackett, and judge Callahan in Texas. Real Americans who "get it".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
72. Huh?
Part of the administration's reasoning is that if you don't have Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) on board, you end up losing the votes of a handful of conservative Democrats.

Seriously? Olympia Snow's vote insures the votes of DemoCons? Really? They will only vote the way Olympia Republicon votes?

Am I reading this wrong or is that what this says?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Sep 15th 2014, 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC