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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 08:01 PM
Original message
Cuba says US should lift embargo unconditionally
Source: AP

HAVANA Cuba will not make any political or policy concessions to improve relations with the U.S. no matter how small, Foreign Minister Bruno Rodriguez said Wednesday, snubbing Washington's suggestions that some reforms could lead to better ties.

He told a news conference that the United States must lift its 47-year-old trade embargo without waiting for anything in return.

Rodriguez said U.S. trade sanctions have cost the island $96 billion in economic damage since they took their current form in February 1962 as part of the Trading with the Enemy Act.

"The policy is unilateral and should be lifted unilaterally," Rodriguez said.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iAmsi...
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Cuba is correct about this. Who knew islands could talk? nt
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. And kill a US political campaign cash cow? ARE THEY CRAZY?
Cuba should listen to us. We're #37.


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Louisiana1976 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Agree--Obama was clueless to extend the embargo for another year.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. But then we will lose the support of the Cuban community in Florida
then they won't vote for a Democratic candidate and...

and...

Oh, wait...

They don't vote Democratic anyway....

What was I thinking?!

:think:
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Ever growing numbers are.
As the older exiles are fading away the younger gen born in the US and the younger gen from Cuba are voting more to the left.

Broad brushing is a mistake on this.


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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. I agree
It sucks what we're doing with cuba
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. What? The Communist Utopia cant get along without goodies
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 08:58 PM by twitomy
from the filthy capitalist pigs? Whatever happened to "from each according to his abilities to each according to their needs?" I guess the communist way is not so successfull as we thought. But wait, they do have AWESOME healthcare! Everyday Americans arrive on Cuban shores in rafts trying to get some...
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Everyday Americans are travel banned from Cuba by US government.
Yes, they do have world class health care.

Been there. Seen it.

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Dumak Donating Member (397 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. Take a good hard look at these tables of infant morality rates...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infan...

Find Cuba, then find United States.

Point a finger at yourself and laugh.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Did you miss it? The Cold War is over!
:woohoo:

lol
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. What country does get along without international trade?
But, let me guess. You're just a planted twit, oh, my!

You are welcome to pose prose, as long as you follow the rules.

Don't forget to read some things and recheck some of your beliefs to actual links.
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Lagomorph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. Not everyone here...
...who is not a fan of Communism is a fan of Corporate State-ism.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. In fairness
Cuba is not communist utopio nor does not claim to be such. It's a socialist state. In marxist theory communist utopia is world without states and money.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Pavlovian stimulus: mention Cuba. Reflex response: cut-and-paste RW talking points...
bearing no relation whatsoever to the issue at hand.

Keywords: Commies! Castro! Dictators! Liberal fellow-travelers! Lines at stores! Shortages! Smug affirmation of the Capitalist Way!

McCarthy lives on...
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Your right, I have a negative pavlovian response to any
govt that oppresses its people. You can add North Korea, Iran, China and to some extent Russia to the list.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. But apparently not Honduras, Mexico, Egypt, Israel (in Palestine)...
interesting selectivity on your list! That's not very many of the governments that oppress their own people, of which there are dozens, but it's a pretty good run-down of Officially Designated Enemies from a US right-wing perspective. (All you need to add is Syria, Venezuela and... France. Ha ha.)

What about governments that oppress the people of foreign nations they have no business screwing? Like, for example, what the US does to Cuba or Iraq... Got any problems with those?
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. The list provided is the worst of the worst.
That does not mean every other country is pure as the driven snow.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. No it's not.
It's the worst from the perspective of US right-wingers, a classic anti-Communist list. NK is maybe the world's worst, but there are plenty of horrible governments around the world comparable to the others on your enemies list.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Lets see...if I had to live
News flash: Russia is not Communist, Iran is not Communist.

Yes there are other horrible govt's, but Cuba is one of the worst. There is a reason people flee in rafts despite the awesome free healthcare.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Can you tell me the reason why people "flee" Mexico...
and other Latin American nations in equally impressive numbers?

What do you think would happen if there were automatic refugee status for them?
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. And can you elaborate why that reason exists?
:popcorn:
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Who can forget Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe and Indonesia and ... ?
:thumbsup:
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. So you have a negative paviovian to the United States?
- Where we have approx 5% of the world's population, but, have approx 24% of the world's incarcerated.

- Where we oppress the equal rights of same sex couples.

- Where we oppress sick and injured people from taking a natural herb for wellness.

- Where we oppress peaceful protesters with chemicals and weapons of torture.

- Where we oppress consenting adults for having sex based on monetary exchange.

- Where we oppress people's right to privacy without due process.

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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. I wonder how well our economy would do if we were exiled from the rest of the world?
Now imagine if that were the case -AND- we were as small of a country as Cuba.

Your comments about Cuba only show how propagandized/ignorant you are with respect to Cuba and how we ourselves actually obtain much of our wealth.

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excess_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. what exactly, can't Cuba buy from places other than the US? .nt
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. The US embargo sanctions foreign and domestic corporations that do sell to Cuba
The US's extra territorial sanctions are on companies, not countries.

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excess_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. OK, what can't Cuba get? .nt
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Cuba has to pay higher prices to 3rd part suppliers and shipping is more expensive..
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 10:56 AM by Mika
.. because part of the Helms-Burton law requires that ships that have been in Cuban ports are forbidden to port in the US for 6 months, making round trip profitability more expensive and circuitous.

For example: If Bayer AG were to sell Aspirin to the Cuban ministry of health or any other entity in Cuba they would be banned from selling Aspirin in the US market. Now, which market do you think companies choose under this duress? So any Aspirin in Cuba has to be purchased through 3rd party resellers at a significant mark up, which a small poor island nation can't afford across the board for many products.

The sanctions aren't on Germany preventing Aspirin sales, they are on Bayer AG and Cuba. There are some loopholes and special permitting by the US Treasury Dept's OFAC, but not many are granted and there are considerable hoops to jump through to get it. Not many are issued.



-



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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. so all foreign companies do business with the US?
no matter how big or small. there are no companies that make toilet paper, for example, that don't do business in the US? every manufacturer, agricultural producer, service industry in the world does business in the US so the law has a negative effect on them. or is it because they choose not to because Cuba doesn't have any money to buy anything??? always asking for credit.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. So, Cuba should just print some money like the US.
Look at us. We're loaded.

:dunce:


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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. the money needs to be worth something so printing money isn't the answer
foreign companies can do business with Cuba. it isn't attractive to them so they don't. maybe Cuba should modify its economic system to allow more free enterprise. what do you think?
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. Shame on Obama for caving to the Miami gusamo mafia.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
14. other countries' reactions to Helms Burton
question for Mika: are non-US companies compelled by US law or by their own countries' laws??


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms-Burton_Act

The Helms-Burton Act was condemned by the Council of Europe, the European Union, Britain, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and other U.S. allies that enjoy normal trade relations with Cuba. The governments argued that the law ran counter to the spirit of international law and sovereignty.

After a complaint by the European Union with the World Trade Organization, a dispute settlement panel was established. Later, the work of the panel was suspended to find a solution through negotiations. After a year, the panel lost its jurisdiction over the matter, and the EU did not pursue the matter any further before the WTO.

The law has also been condemned by humanitarian groups because these groups argue that sanctions against an entire country will affect only the innocent population.

The law provides for compensation of only the largest of claims for confiscated property, primarily only the claims of large multinational companies (valued at roughly $6 billion), and fails to provide for the claims of individuals with confiscated personal residences of the exiled Cuban-American community.

The European Union introduced a Council Regulation (No 2271/96)<4> (law binding all member states) declaring the extra-territorial provisions of the Helms-Burton Act to be unenforceable within the EU, and permitting recovery of any damages imposed under it. The EU law also applied sanctions against US companies and their executives for making Title III complaints.

The United Kingdom had previously introduced provisions by statutory instrument<5> extending its Protection of Trading Interests Act 1980 (originally passed in the wake of extra-territorial claims by the U.S. in the 1970s) to United States rules on trade with Cuba. United Kingdom law was later extended to counter-act the Helms-Burton Act as well. This included criminal sanctions for complying with certain provisions of the Helms-Burton Act whilst in the UK.<6>

Mexico passed a law in October 1996 aimed at neutralizing the Helms-Burton Act. The law provides for a fine of 2.2 million pesos, or $280,254, against anyone who while in Mexican territory obeys another country's laws aimed at reducing Mexican trade or foreign investment in a third country.

Similarly, Canada passed a law to counteract the effect of Helms-Burton, as well as having put forward (but not passing) a bill that satirized Burton-Helms by demanding recompense for United Empire Loyalists and proposing similar travel restrictions on those "trafficking" in property confiscated during the American Revolution.

Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush both signed a provision allowing for a waiver of the law. Though, effective May 10, 1999, with CFR Title 31 Part 515 the act was amended and is presently being enforced.

The following are laws that were passed in different countries to counteract the effects of Helms-Burton:

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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. They are compelled by US law if they want to do biz in the US.
Surely a good conservative like you wouldn't be endorsing foreign laws forcing the US to allow foreign companies to do business here? I don't. That's why I don't support NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, IMF, GAT, etc.

I know you don't support the embargo and that's a good thing, imo. We agree on that, at least. :thumbsup:




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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. not endorsing the embargo, just saying Helms Burton isn't the excuse you make it to be
for Cuba's problems. foreign companies would do more business in Cuba if it were worth it. companies that don't do business in the US face no restrictions other than not getting paid by Cuba.

seems to me that Cuba's limitations on free expression, press, and enterprise are quite conservative. or are those things a great progressive like you aspire to? limiting cell phones, internet, pressure cookers, and toilet paper don't sound to progressive to me. how about printing Granma on toilet paper? Cubans would have a much more beneficial use for it then. shouldn't the Cuban government be more efficient like they exort the Cuban people to be for their $20/month?
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Seems to you? And your experience in Cuba is?
Utter crap is what you've got on this subject. Biased. Untruthful. Useless.

I simply can't fuggin believe that you are STILL carrying on with your pressure cooker bullshit. Like an infant that can't let go even when proven wrong years ago on that particular line of swill you peddle.

What you know about the real Cuba would fit on the head of a very tiny pin, and there'd be plenty of room left over.

But that doesn't stop you from repeatedly posting RW propaganda and ignorant anti Cuban diatribes here.


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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
17. Who is worse..or more dangerous, Cuba or China? nt
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. US, Russia, and EU are each 10 to 100 times as dangerous as the ones you mention.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. We lost 58,000 Americans in the Vietnam...
And we lost that war. But when we normalized relations with it in 1995, US corporations fell all over each other getting in there to set up their factories and fast-food places.

The same US corporations who told us for decades about how evil communism was...

We need to lift the embargo now...
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
40. The embargo makes the US look petty and fearful.
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