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U.S. forces shoot mentally handicapped person in Falluja

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:37 AM
Original message
U.S. forces shoot mentally handicapped person in Falluja
Source: Voice of Iraq

ANBAR / Aswat al-Iraq: U.S. forces opened fire on a mentally handicapped person on Wednesday afternoon after throwing his shoe at a U.S. patrol in central Falluja, eyewitnesses said.

A mentally disabled person threw his shoe on a U.S. vehicle patrol near Hajji Hussein restaurant in central Falluja, forcing U.S. soldiers to shoot and wounding him, the witnesses told Aswat al-Iraq news agency.

The wounded was rushed to the Falluja public hospital, they added, noting that the man is in critical condition.

No word was immediately available from the U.S. army on the incident.

Read more: http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=119066



more from AFP:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jJJY...

US troops kill Fallujah 'shoe-thrower'

(AFP) 48 minutes ago

FALLUJAH, Iraq An Iraqi man who witnesses said shouted abuse before throwing a shoe at a US army vehicle was shot dead on Wednesday in what the American military said was a suspected grenade attack.

Residents told an AFP reporter in Fallujah that Ahmed Latif, 32, whom they said was mentally disturbed, insulted the soldiers as they patrolled in the centre of the city, and then hurled a shoe at them.

The US military told AFP that a convoy in Fallujah had been attacked with a suspected grenade.

"Positive identification of the attacker was made, and US forces fired in self-defence wounding the attacker," the army said in a statement.

"Local Iraqi police secured the scene and transported the wounded attacker to a local hospital for medical care," it added.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. winning the hearts and minds, one war crime at a time.
:(
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. War-crime or defending your self?
They are in a war-zone. He thew an object at a US patrol. What were the soldiers supposed to do?
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. get out of Iraq, since we invaded illegally to begin with
and are a hostile occupier.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Doesn't change the fact that soldiers will defend themselves from a perceived attack.
I'm not seeing a war crime here. This is the fog of war. It tragic but not a crime.
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. This was never 'war'.
Iraq never declared war on the U.S., and the U.S. had no reason to wage 'war' on Iraq. It's an illegal invasion and occupation for oil and military bases. Calling it 'war' legitimizes it and every horror that resulted because of it. No Way.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I'm not attempting to legitimize the invasion of Iraq.
I'm saying that soldiers are going to defend themselves and they are in the right to do so because of the situation. "Fog of war" is a very old term. It refers to combat and conflict. It's not a reference to Iraq.
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Lagomorph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. When the bullets are flying...
...all that right and wrong stuff goes right out the window.

If it's big enough to be a bomb, it's a bomb.

The police in the US do it the same way.

Right or wrong? Wrong, IMO. But opinions don't count unless you're the one willing to stand there and take the hit.
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CKennedy16 Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. If it is a crime then prosecute BushCo
Our troops have every right to defend themselves in any hostile environment until Obama can hopefully end this war.
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Understand, my apologies.
I've just seen it described so many times as 'war' and 'shit happens in war' and it makes me angry. Absolutely those in the middle of it have to act in the moment and do what they need to to survive, it's just sick and sad all on both sides have been put in the situation in the first place.
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rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. What war crime are you referring to?
I assume you mean the actual war bush got us in, right?
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. "opened fire on a mentally handicapped person" i guess this is news but....

Heck, the cops in the good Ol' USA do that at least 10 times a year.

Damn shame.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. that reminded me of the deaf mentally disabled guy the cops tazed a few weeks ago.
fucked up.

he was in a bathroom stall and the store folks called the cops to get him out. cops dragged him out and tazed his ass.

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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yup. Less than a block from my former house we had the cops shot a mute man dead.
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 11:58 AM by slampoet
All because he was walking at night with what the cops called a "club".

Turned out it was a cane the man needed to walk with and being a mute he couldn't tell the cops WHY he couldn't drop it.

This was about 14 years ago.


The one the always got me though was the person passed out in a diabetic coma who got tazed and year or so ago.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. i remember the diabetic as well.
cops.

*heavy sigh*

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Treo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. Just because he's Deaf does NOT mean he's mentally disabled
I watched the interview after he was tazed and we was NOT mentally handicapped
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rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. How were the soldiers to know the mental state of the attacker?
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. huh?
Since when was anyone "forced" to kill? And at what point did throwing a shoe become equivalent to shot with a gun?
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. If you're a soldier in a hostile area and someone throws something at you what would you do?
It's tragic but I don't see how soldiers would react any other way.
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. justified in my eyes as well - a grenade or a shoe- quick decide before it hits you

plus I'm really sick of second guessing people in the field based on a story sent halfway around the globe written by 'someone' who I have no knowledge of whatsoever.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. +1
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TiredOldMan Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. +2
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Exactly... it's very sad but the soldiers don't have the luxury of time to decide if he's armed
He's throwing something at them, it's a flying object through the air - you can't tell if it's a shoe or an explosive device, or if it was a prelude to a greater attack - you react. I have never been in a life-or-death situation like that, so I'm not about to judge someone who is.

It is very tragic and sad, and it illustrates the folly of our invasion quite well, but I'm not about to place blame on soldiers who are in a war zone and trained to react to a hostile threat.
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TheLastMohican Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
29. Totally agree
All other times these thrown objects appeared to be hand grenades.

Those people hate our guts, even the mentally ill.
Can't we just go home already?
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rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. At what point did reading a half-assed news report become the equivalent
of knowing what really happened and how those soldiers should or should not have reacted?
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
6. smart enough to attack
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. Nice. No wonder they want us to leave...OBAMA GET US OUT!!!
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rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Sure, if it becomes a mission priority to seek and destroy Iraqi mentally ill people
I agree with you. How was anyone to know the mental state of this person? You should think about what you post.
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rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Sure, if it becomes a mission priority to seek and destroy Iraqi mentally ill people
I agree with you. How was anyone to know the mental state of this person? You should think about what you post.
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CKennedy16 Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
23. Oh FFS, he threw an object at a MILITARY VEHICLE.
I'm not really sure what the point of this story is. Someone threw an object at our troops, what the hell do you expect them to do?

"Hey Bob, I think I see someone throwing --- possibly a grenade, should I attack?"
"Negative, the target may be handicapped, and he may simply be throwing items from his wardrobe at us".
:rofl:
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Lagomorph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Hey, you may be on to something...
Anybody who throws something at an armed gun truck in a combat zone is obviously mentally handicapped...

or suicidal.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. Obviously they needed a psychologist in the field to administer an IQ test
before deciding how to respond.
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
30. Nobody has ever camouflaged an explosive device as something else over there...
they did what they have to do given the circumstances.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
31. Sorry, but I can't really fault those involved in this single incident
Our troops are an untenable position. If you place young men and women into a hellish situation like what is now in progress in Iraq and Afghanistan, (atrocious) things are going to happen in the heat of battle. I am not talking now about the torture in the prisons and whatnot. Those are different. But this kind of thing is why both wars, in their entirety, need to be brought to a halt
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Treo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
34. Just wondering
Are you guys the same ones that spit on my cousins and called them "baby killer " when they came back from Viet Nam
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
35. I'm pretty harsh on deliberate war crimes. This isn't one.
Edited on Sat Sep-19-09 10:57 PM by BreweryYardRat
Just a bad situation all the way around.

This isn't shooting someone for no reason beside paranoia or jumpiness. This is self-defense against a perceived grenade. They didn't have time to wait for it to hit and see if it exploded. If it had been an actual grenade, the guy would been going for another as soon as he'd thrown the first. One grenade inbound is bad enough. Several are a nightmare.

I'm glad they didn't kill the poor guy, though. Stroke of luck.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
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