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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:33 AM
Original message
India to Chinese investors: No more visas, hire Indians
Source: Economic Times of India

16 Sep 2009, 1911 hrs IST, Saibal Dasgupta, TNN

BEIJING: Chinese investors should employ more Indians to run their projects in India instead of carrying large number of workers from China. This is New Delhis latest response to complaints concerning Indias reluctance to grant enough visas for Chinese workers.

An India-specific approach will have to be thought through by Chinese companies, S Jaishankar, Indias new ambassador in Beijing told a conference attended by Indian and Chinese businessmen and officials.

He pointed out that companies from other foreign countries did not feel the need to carry their own workers to projects in India, which has a vast reservoir of skilled workmen and a long history of industry and entrepreneurship.

I have personal experience in working with many of Indias other major economic partners. I cannot recall their investments and projects requiring such large manpower support from home, Jaishankar, who was earlier ambassador in Singapore, said.



Read more: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/India-to-Chinese-in...



"Indias reluctance to grant enough visas for Chinese workers"

Well, color me surprised.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. Imagine that... India is threatened by cheap, imported labor
how does it feel? You get what you give.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Except that India's per capita income is 1/3 of China's. Chinese investors are importing expensive
(relatively) labor from China instead of hiring local Indians presumably for less. That doesn't make any sense. It would be like an American company building in a factory in Mexico then insisting that Americans work there not Mexicans.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. There must be a business incentive somewhere in the arrangement.
If Indian labor for the same jobs is that much less expensive, there's probably something in the scenario makes it more cost efficient. Does the Chinese government reward the companies for hiring Chinese? Does the Indian government tax them more on Indian hires. ARe the Chinese companies extracting natural resources not available in China?



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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
33. Would the cost of living in India be lower than where the Chinese
came from?
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. Makes sense. Takes alot of residual cash out of the India economy.
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 10:38 AM by rucky
Workers and their have to live and eat and entertain themselves. India wants them to do that in India.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. the fresh smell of irony in the morning. nt
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
7.  {sniff} Mmmmm. My favorite! nt.
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 10:58 AM by sybylla
With just a hint of ass-kicking Karma, too.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hmm, wonder where they heard that and got that idea?
Aimed at them for so long? Since those two countries make up about 20% of the entire world population, here's hoping they are able to get along with each other.
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eyepaddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. I'll drink to that. But I don't think India-China cooperation is in the offing.
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 11:25 AM by eyepaddle
For a long time India has been distracted by/fixated on Pakistan, but that is pretty much over now. India has so authoritatively buried Pakistan in all measures that count they are feeling a little more free to square up and face China. Simlultaneously China is beginning to assert itself as a world superpower. Watching the two countries play footsie with their navies is somewhat a cause for concern--take a good close look at India's conitinued development of her naval air power and investments in nuclear submarines, and pay attention to Chinese attempts to develop naval ties with Sri Lanka. It's called the Indian Ocean for a reason.

I see this as another facet of the two countries elbowing each other as they jockey for position to be THE Asian superpower.

Edited to add: On a positive note, both nations seem very capable of playing the waiting game and winning by craftsmanship rather than a WW II style throwdown.

Beyond that this eriod is REALLY going to give historians a lot of stuff to ponder.
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StreetKnowledge Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. Both do have a lot of issues to sort out, though.
India and China both have serious civil unrest and pollution problems, and bot nations have way too many people for the landmasses they have. That could potentially be a problem for everybody in the region, particularly Australia, and as such eventually become a problem for us. I'm not meaning to say any tinfoil hat crap, but these two nations have fought wars before, let's not forget.
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theoldman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. Like the Mexicans in the US the Chinese in India send their money back home.
African countries have also complained that the Chinese are not hiring enough local laborers. Maybe the Chinese are on to something that we have not learned. Take my word for it, the Chinese understand money.
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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. Cry me a freakin' river
Stop stealing American jobs, and then maybe we'll talk.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. How does a person steal a job?
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. Make a product that is better and/or cheaper than its competition and that consumers prefer.
Whichever factory makes this product "steals" (now there's a term that's meant to inflame passions) jobs from the factory that doesn't. Of course, no one cares too much (except for the workers directly involved) as long as it is Ford "stealing" jobs from GM (or vice versa) when one of them produces a really popular car or truck, or Caterpillar "steals" jobs from Navistar (International Harvester) when one produces a great piece of construction equipment. That's just Americans stealing from Americans.

Passions do get inflamed, however (hence the use of the term "steal"), when foreigners "steal" jobs from Americans, even when they do it the old-fashioned way by producing products that consumers prefer.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Wow, that went right past you.
The problem referred to in the response you countered is our own lax visa regulations that allow companies to bring cheap labor into the US from India. Hence jobs stolen from US workers.

I suppose China can be included in that as well, but the irony of the op is that India is now complaining about China doing the same thing to them.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I'm sure you realize that India is not complaining that China is abusing an H-1B type visa program,
so it is not "the same thing". Or did the distinction go right past you, too?

They are complaining about Chinese companies investing in projects in India but bringing the workers from China rather than hiring Indian locals. That doesn't strike me as the "same thing" as running a flawed and incompetently run visa program for professionals. It would be like Honda building a plant in Ohio then bringing all the workers over from Japan to run the factory.

My point remains that the rise of China economically has had a much greater impact on our economy than has India's slower economic gains. Many, many times as much American jobs (though not as many professional jobs as in manufacturing) have been "stolen" (for your sake I'll keep using the term so that we can keep those passions fired up) by China than by India. So I'll stick by my earlier description of "how a person steals a job".
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NewAgeThinker Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. wake up people
Indians aren't stealing american jobs
it's not Theft if companies offer them the positions people.. HELLOOOOO

WAKE UP AMERICA - Dennis Kuccinich!

It's so funny how backwards some people
they blame the people accepting the jobs but not the companies offshoring them
AMAZING!!!!

And these companies are laughing their arses off with 12K single malt reading and hearing your comments
as you all criticize the foreign employees and not the employers.

AMAZING how much of a low IQ some people can have.

Bill Maher was right, Americans aren't too bright.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. At least be bothered just enough to spell Kucinich's name correctly...
Not to mention, we are cognizant of the corporate element in all of this. Amongst other factors and facets.

Do you expect everybody to repeat themselves, down to the last syllable, each time, in every single post? I tried that - it gets tiring and then some say not to repeat one's self all the damn time too.

So screw it.

And not in the good way.

What's that you say about a "low IQ", again?
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
9. I actually lean in India's favor. China has stolen hundreds of times more American jobs than India.
China is the greater threat. Many times over.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
13. Imagine that. Protectionism everywhere but the USA. n/t
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Don't Toyota and Honda hire American workers? India wants businesses in India to hire Indians.
Protectionism would be India trying to keep products from China out.

If you want to call Toyota and Honda employing American workers at their US facilities "protectionism", then I guess we're guilty of it, too.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
14. the circle is complete...


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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
15. Feels great, doesn't it, India?
It seems protectionism is bad only when the US does it.
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Crowman1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
16. I have no problems with indians. I just think there government consists of douchebags.
Plus the Indian constitution is just as long as the Alabama state constitution.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
17. Isn't anybody going to scream PROTECTIONISM?
:sarcasm:
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Because that's not what protectionism is. I guess someone could scream NATIVISM,
since India's goal is to keep foreigner workers out.

Actually, it's more logical that if you build a factory in another country, you should hire people from the country (other than maybe some top management from the home country). That's what Toyota, Honda and other foreign companies do here even though our labor is not cheap by their standards.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. labor is cheap by their standards, Japan has a HIGHER labor cost than the USA.
Why ELSE do you think they open plants HERE?
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Part of the reason was political. With a significant manufacturing and employment presence
in the US, they could more easily influence the US government not to put tariffs and quotas on their cars as had happened in the 1970's and 1980's. If all their production stayed in Japan and they just tried to ship more and more cars to the US, they would have had no sway with our government when it was pushed to restrict the flow of Japanese cars.

How high are labor costs in Japan than in the US?
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. look here
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Thanks for the link. In transportation equipment manufacturing Japanese make less than
Americans. Our compensation is higher than theirs in every year from 1992 to 2007 except for 1994 and 1995, so in general Japanese are paid less in this industry which is closely related to the auto industry.

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/ForeignLabor/pwi...

There wasn't any hourly compensation data for Japanese auto workers for some reason. The US compensation figures for the auto industry are about the same as for the transportation equipment industry. If the same is true for Japan, too, then it is more expensive for them to hire American workers in the auto industry than it is to pay Japanese.

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/ForeignLabor/pwi...
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
21. Is this protectionism? if so, they better STFU about Americans' concerns...
and saying a concern is NOT AN ACTION.

Saying "no more visas to foreigners" IS AN ACTION.

If that isn't simple enough to understand, there are a lot of people who need to go back to... first grade?!


Lastly, if one cannot recall something, it's in their best interests to follow-up the acknowledgment and to say they will follow up, citing the evidence for which their claim is made. I have to do that too and, worse, I'm just a blogger: What you linked to is, purportedly, a professional news article.

Then again, Saint Reagan(tm) and others kept saying they forgot lots of things too, back in their day...

:shrug:


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ChromeFoundry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
23. karma is a bitch. n/t
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. You'd think they of all people would know that.
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mule_train Donating Member (611 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's unfair for Chinese to steal jobs in India
that were stolen 'fair and square*' from Americans

(* Americans are designated losers of globalism)
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
26. A single tear runs down my cheek....
:sarcasm:

It's called a karma-shit sandwich India. Now take a big bite!
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mule_train Donating Member (611 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. Send this article to your Senators and Reps

becasause for once, Indians actually have given us something worth copying

PROTECTIONISM!!!
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mule_train Donating Member (611 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
37. Almost like something out of 'The Onion', it's so absurd nt
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. It really is, isn't it?
:rofl:
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Lagomorph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
39. If it walks like an imperialist...
and talks like an imperialist, it just might be an imperialist.

Sending whole cultures of Chinese into foreign countries to exploit their resources and market their products sounds awfully familiar.
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Dr_Willie_Feelgood Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
40. This from a country flooding the U.S. with...
...entry level computer technicians, doing jobs that we are crying out for, but cannot get.

Payback's a...
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
41. A similar story happening in Poland. (from the BBC)
"Two decades after the fall of communist rule, a Polish government with an almost fundamentalist commitment to the free market has awarded contracts for two large motorway sections to a Chinese state-owned company that won the job with a dramatic knock-down bid.

It is the first time the Chinese have won such a contract in Poland and it is believed to be a first within the EU. But instead of just cutting the price, they slashed it to pieces, offering to build the road for 60% less than the guide price - saving taxpayers millions, but leaving many wondering how they can do it so cheaply without pain."

"The Chinese Overseas Engineering Group (Covec), has told the Polish authorities it will employ EU workers, but fears persist that it will ship in cheap labour from China to complete the job. But "first of all, they will hire the workers from our market," he adds. He also says that Covec will have to obey Polish and EU employment laws, and comply with working hours and minimum wage regulations."

"With many Polish builders working in the UK and perceived by some to be undercutting UK pay rates, it is ironic that their jobs at home could now be filled by Chinese workers."

"A spokesman for the European Internal Market Commissioner said they were not investigating the contract and there was "insufficient information to see if it was within the rules or not". This might be the first motorway contract for the Chinese in the EU but it is unlikely to be the last. But with tension mounting in the UK, in particular, over the employment of foreign contract labour, the authorities in Warsaw and Brussels will need to tread very carefully.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8259153.stm
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